Home solar systems?

[pmer]

Does anyone have a home solar system? My wife and I were looking at one and listening to the proposal it seems kind of spendy, not sure if I'm missing something. Does anybody out here have solar systems and are they working good for you and living up to expectations?

[smokeywolf]

MaryB ought to chime in here. She's an electric/electronics pro. I believe has a solar power or backup system and lives in Minn.

[farmerjim]

Unless you get large subsidies from the fed, State and City, It will never cost less than power from the grid. If you do not have access to the grid, it makes sense for a base load depending on where you live. If you want it in case of a TEOTWAWKI event go for it. If you want one to learn from get a smaller one and try it. As smokeywolf says, MaryB has one, and a couple of members are full solar for their base electrical demands.

[Baja_Traveler]

Some parts of the country it totally makes sense, and some parts it is a "I'm saving energy" nice to have. Not because of how much the sun shines, but how much the electric company is gouging you.
Here in San Diego, SDG&E raises rates every chance it gets and we pay some of the highest costs in the country - including Hawaii! Putting solar up to counter the high cost makes sense if you are going to stay 10 years or more in your house.
Also, if you do it - buy it outright and hire a solar contractor to install it - the companies that put it on your roof for zero down are making money off you for the life of the system.

[Walks]

If you allow the State/Fed plan to install "free solar panels", you are being ripped off. None of the power collected by "your panels" feeds into your house. But rather feeds back to your power provider, in my case Southern California EDISON.
My power costs have not gone down after a year, my new home power panel is incorrectly wired and unlabeled, 3 of my 25yr old Rose bushes were destroyed. I have to pay Edison a $5 fee every month. And I have to mail a check to a Solar Co. in Texas.

I actually got NOTHING out of this deal. I've gotten no benefit from the free solar panels.
And if there's a power outage, I lose power just like everyone else.
Buy your own panels, make sure they are AMERICAN MADE, and get a long term maintenance agreement from a Reputable Co.
And I have a wireless transmitter plugged into both outlets in my Dining Room. Really Classy looking.

[DerekP Houston]

I researched it about 4 years ago when I was buying my first house, after all the sales pitch and "green" info were done, it looked to cost more than just using city power with very little benefits for my area. With the amount of wind/hail damage I can't see it as a long term option in Texas.

[Minerat]

Guy across the street from me had one installed and no one would take over the 30 year contract. He lost nearly a 100 grand on the sale to get an investor to take the house.

Cost him $10,00 grand to have it removed and replaced after our last hail storm, the insurance company would not pay for that part of the repairs since only the solar company was authorized to do the work..

Never lease them or you have the same potential for problems. Good luck,

[Petrol & Powder]

Generally speaking, unless you're way off the grid, solar is not competitive with electricity from a utility.
It does make sense in some remote applications and it can be a great part of a back-up power system.

Most reasonably intelligent people that are skilled with their hands can design and install a decent system. If you can read a book, have some basic electrical skills and are willing to design before you build - you can do it on your own. I would be hesitant to pay for a complete "package".

[rancher1913]

we have a stand alone solar system on one of our pasture wells that works really well, even pumps on overcast days. not the same as a whole house system but we are taking baby steps to get there. we plan to own ours and have the panels on stands in the yard, not on the roof.

[Sweetpea]

I'm quite sure that I overpaid for mine.

That said, once the total was refi'd with the house, the extra money every month is less than our power bill would have been, and I can write off that interest on my taxes.

I still pay the power company $8.76 every month, for a hook up fee.

And if I'm hot in the summertime, I just adjust the thermostat, and don't worry about the bill, because it makes no difference.

[lancem]

I am off grid and have been living on solar only for over 6 years. If you are on grid I'd say pay the bill and spend your money else where.

That being said, I love being off grid, yes it was a rather large investment but by the same token I can pretty much do what ever I want and don't have to worry about a monthly bill. As I have often told the wife this summer, turn that AC on high I don't care what it costs!!! :)

[pmer]

Thanks guys for the input this system was for a 24 panel that would mount on the roof of a shed and it would produce about $1,200 per year on average for the 25 year parts warranty. But the cost seems so high, the system pays for itself by the end of the warranty and then you would be stuck with an old system running at 80% efficiency.

It seems to me that considering where we live a system like this wouldn't be a good deal.

It makes me wonder how these big solar Farms are going to make it in the out years after warranties. That plus the storm damage. We have a couple good sized solar farms in our area.

[snowwolfe]

My sons in laws had a nice system installed. They said they couldn’t even begin to rationalize the cost without the state and feds kicking in a huge chunk. Even then they told me it will be 30 years before the cost of what they paid is paid back.

[MaryB]

Payback is 12-15 years... Minnesota pays full retail for any power you produce into the grid so a grid tie system makes sense for someone looking to cut their electric bill as a long term investment. BUT the utility companies are rears ends of a donkey when it comes to getting approved. All kinds of hoops they make you jump through including a $300k liability insurance policy... best bet is contact your electric company FIRST and get their solar install guidelines...

My setup is off grid for backup power, it has paid for itself in saving a freezer full of meat 3 times... but I did the install myself using a system I designed...

[RED BEAR]

I looked into it a few years back and decided i would never get my money back out of it . If you do decide to go for it make sure your roof is in really good condition as the solar system has to come down to reroof .

[MUSTANG]

I have placed several small solar PV/Battery systems for powering communications sites and other remote applications over the years. These made Great Economical sense because there was no alternative. I have been studying PV Solar, and almost every year computing the cost for systems to power the houses, and have yet to see a true break even occur when one considers Future Value of Money, alternative investments in money at the time you decide to "Invest" in a PV system, etc.. If the Federal/State/County is going to give a big subsidy; it starts to help the financial analysis (except when you figure out how much taxes get raised to cover the "Free Stuff"). As I said, been running the numbers almost every years for over 50 years and still do not have a system for our home/s.

[Handloader109]

Two different concepts I'll comment on. I'm on a cooperative electric company. Rates pretty comparable to my Mississippi power was, except they change the rates summer to winter.

The coop installed a large solar grid last year. About 3 to 4 acre. 2000 equivalent homes supposedly powered. The coop offers its customers a chance to buy part of the grid and would rebate power cost back over 20 yr life. Was roughly break even without time value of my money. Then it was a big loss for the customer buying the grid.

Second a company started up early last year installing home solar. Their big sales pitch is being able to sell back to electric company the power generated. At this time, the electric companies are paying full retail for this power. As long as this happens, it is close to break even. BUT, and it is a big BUT, there is a lot of rumbling that the electric companies are looking to discount rate as a good portion of their cost isn't just generating the power, but the infrastructure, the wiring, poles, the plants and all the people the employ. Just true production would be maybe half or even a quarter of full retail cost. If this happens a lot of people will get royally screwed by the solar deals.

And damage. We had bad hail storm the other day. I'd bet those glass panels took a beating



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Bulldogger]

I looked into it when my local utility finally agreed to allow grid-tied solar. They give credits for the power at off-peak rates and apply the credit monthly to one's bill. This arrangement will almost always mean paying some bill, and my payment actually would go to the solar installer who pays the electric company and pays off the loan they arrange to fund the install. (Ways to finance long-term debt are popular money-makers in business. Can't say I like it, but it's terribly common.)
The plus with the plan I was offered was that I could include the price of re-roofing in the solar loan since the panels need a good base to sit on. The low-interest re-roofing option was the only thing that made the install slightly attractive, given the 20 year payback on the loan. It does lock one's electric rate in for that 20 years, with my plan.
The solar installers didn't have backup power available, though they said they'd install the terminals for me to have it added later. I delayed because of this and likely won't be going down that road just because of the many reasons why it might never lower my monthly electric costs.

Another oddity of my install is that even though my house is from the 50's, it's been well-maintained and is very well insulated. My monthly power bill is so low the solar installers said my usage would be too low to get a good deal off the plan, owing to the credit system the utility uses. How about that? I use too little power to make solar work well! Bad boy, you're too energy efficient! (This begs that I find a way to get a deal on some panels and install the system myself, as it might pass cost-benefit analysis then.)

What many folks don't consider is that solar panels have a finite life span, in terms of producing their full potential power. Some will not make it to the 20 years, some fail even after 10. Warranty handles this in some cases but it's a stretch and it's not a sure bet.

I think the best application of grid-tied solar is micro-grids for suburbs and other small communities, where the solar feeds storage locally that residents can share and use together as a community power service. It improves resiliency of the grid, when managed well, and can lessen the impacts of power loss from utilities. This kind of distributed generation is the way of the future I think.

I must admit I am biased, since I work for the electrical industry. Even so, if it was as cheap and easy as the proponents claim it is, as someone with direct ties to the equipment providers you'd think I'd have local power and I don't, so that tells you something.

Bulldogger

[douglasskid]

Installed a grid tie system about 3 years ago. The system was designed to off set about 75% of our electrical use. System has exceeded that mark. At time of installation the feds. had a 30% tax credit. I'm very happy with the system.

[BHuij]

I have worked in the solar industry now for 4 years. I am more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

Depending on your goals and reasons for maybe wanting to go solar, it can be a great option. There are a lot of factors that go into deciding whether a house is a great, fair, or terrible candidate for going solar.

I can't tell you how many customers I've spoken to who got solar panels, immediately started running their AC at antarctic temperatures, and got mad when their bill went up 90% over before they got solar. Most of them aren't interested in hearing that their energy usage went up 150%, so 90% increase in bills still represents significant savings. The customers who do their research, understand how it works, and don't plug in their Death Star and leave it 24/7 after getting their panels generally enjoy good savings. The idea of being able to go off grid entirely by storing your excess production in a battery is possible already, but expensive. Every day it gets more and more economically feasible though. LG, Enphase, Solar City are all companies making good advancements here.

Anyway, I'll do my best to answer any questions you may have. Feel free to post here or PM me.

[xs11jack]

I think that one must be careful of 2 things. one being the subsidies the various governments give you. The second is the power company. Both are going to decided what conditions you live under. Especially the subsidies, they are not going to last forever and most systems will not break even without them. The power company will always be looking at the bottom line and will make sure that they get their profit no mater what it will cost you. Just my 2 cents.
Ole Jack

[rancher1913]

everybody talks about payback or more so the lack of payback on solar systems. my take is that if you can afford a system of 30,000 dollars that is more or less a fixed cost and each year it produces a small payback, well 7 years from now electric rates have trippled due to the current political climate, your costs are now being recouped in a huge way. unless electric rates drop, then your hosed.

[tja6435]

It would have cost us $50k to have the pleasure of having a power bill every month. I've built our solar system with 5k watts of panels, charge controllers, wind turbines, batteries for under $10k easy. I buy only used, decommissioned utility solar panels for about $.30/watt. Guy on eBay was selling over a megawatt of used panels a week ago when I was looking for more.

[popper]

small solar PV/Battery systems for powering communications sites and other remote applications over the years. These made Great Economical sense because there was no alternative. Only application that makes sense. Ca power used to be hydro that was cheap, from the north. That's gone now. Only one that works is the concentrator like that in the Alps (40?)years ago that was a steam generator (and would melt through boiler plate in a few seconds). Pretty much like wind - never recover the cost. Pickens sold off his interest at the peak of interest. There was a surf/wave generator that worked but the maintenance was $$. Same with the flowing river generators, too much $$. Still waiting to see the news reports after a tornado hits one of those farms. All-in-all, sort of a Musk deal.

[MT Gianni]

Is your Public Service Commission appointed or elected? Ours [elected] has changed from wanting customers to be able to sell "green" power to the Utility at what they pay for their own Hydro + 20 % [Democrats] to [Republicans] approving a payback of what ever spot market averages each month.
A friend is an Design Engineer and claims that none will generate power cheaper than a utility without a Govt kickback. How much that is and whether it remains constant are all factors. Do your research, if you are on grid or less than $10 to get on it might be best to do so. If you are outside the grid it doesn't make much sense, unless you have a small cabin set up for 12 V. lights with lp appliances, IMO.

[Tom Trevor]

I see TV adds for Verizon touting the power companies in Hawaii going green. Then see on one home show Hawaii recommends battery system. As they do not buy back power from the customer.

[Echo]

I had a system installed a few months ago. TEP had just upped my rate to $239 monthly. I now pay ~$20 monthly. My system is putting out 9100 watts, and I'm using 'way less, but it IS summer, and Monsoon, season in Tucson, so the AC is sopping up a goodly amount. That being said, the system will pay for itself in 7-8 years, and it HAS increased the appraised value of the house. Come cold (no AC) season, I will be using less than 2000 watts, and TEP is banking it all...

[jblee10]

Just a question, because I have heard of this happening in the past with the installation of wind generators. Has anyone experienced an increase in property taxes with the installation of solar panels?

[JimB..]

We installed our first panels to provide backup power for a communications site about a year ago, we’re now converting a few dozen sites to solar for primary and mains as backup. We do not bother selling back to the utility, too much headache. It really only works for us because the alternative is a diesel or natural gas generator both of which have significant upfront cost and maintenance cost.

I’ve used water panels for residential hot water, but I’m convinced that government subsidies are actually keeping the costs for electric panels high enough that the business case is sketchy at best. How is that, it’s because nobody needs to figure out how to do it better/cheaper since it s better to just ask the government for more incentives.

[oldlongbeard]

Somebody said it above. If you can't build it, and buy it yourself, and have a stand-alone, non-intertied system, I wouldn't do it. And if you are paying more than 50 Cents per watt for panels, you aren't shopping. Solar makes sense NOW. Many of the Chinese Mfg's have gone out of the business; That and current political climate might make prices on those rise, so I would strike now with the aforementioned caveats.

Greg in cloudy West Mitten

[garandsrus]

For about $37,500 you can get free power for life and get all your money back instead of free power whenever you want. No maintenance charges either. How? Buy stock in your local electric company. Utilities pay a dividend of about 3%, so figure out how much power you use and then how many shares of stock to buy to generate a dividend that covers your electric usage.

The stock price and dividend should go up over time so you might make even more.

[Lead pot]

If you want to get off the grid it takes more then solar alone. It takes a combination of sun, wind and composed. Just composed you can heat water for winter heat and collect methane off the pile to cook your food and heat your domestic water heater. Or put a parabolic cone with wrapped copper tubing it can be as small as a 4 foot diameter funnel type that will heat cold water going in and coming out steaming hot.
Wind and solar for your battery powered electrical need with a few auto alternators and a home build wind mill. All of this if your capable of tying a knot in your shoe strings you can do it your self at a lesser cost then hiring it done.
I ran my Ham Radio station on battery power during the cold war years plus the lights.

[abunaitoo]

I would luv to get a stand alone solar system.
Power company just rips us off all the time.
Power company used to have pay back credit, but they saw they were losing so much money, they made up some story, and now you don't get back very much.
People who got solar before they changed the rules, pay $18 and month for service fee, and most of the time, that the total bill.
Those who got their solar after the change, save maybe 20%.
We don't have snow. Sunny skies majority of the year. Be ideal for solar.
I have a solar water heater. That helped a bunch.
If I could afford it, I'd go batteries with a generator back up.

[tja6435]

ML Solar has a deal on used Sanyo 195w panels for $40/ea. Have to order a pallet (20) at a time and pay for freight but $.20/watt is crazy cheap even for used panels. These panels were built in 2007. I have 2 panels from 1994 that have been in continual operation since 1994, both still put out rated power or more during perfect alignment with the sun.

I got 20 panels shipped to the freight terminal in CO Springs for $1180. I wish we had the funds to get 60 panels, we'd be set for a while.

[abunaitoo]

Can you put up solar your self in the lower 48????
We can't do it here.
And it has to have two inspections before it can be turned on.
Friend had it installed a couple months ago.
Last time I was at his house, they still didn't inspect it.
Everything is a big racket here.
That's why everything cost so much.
Hard to move for me.

[tja6435]

We don't have building codes in our county. I pay for building permits and build as I see fit. The solar is easy to deal with, high voltage systems allow smaller gauge wire. Trade off is more expensive charge controllers (mppt). I'd like to get a 600v charge controller. The panels I just ordered put out 55v at peak, that adds up quick in series.

[Hossfly]

These are my thoughts on this solar power deal. If your going cheap and DIY you better do your research and have a good long term plan before you sink any money into Solar. It will all be on you.
Things to think about, sun don’t shine at night. Sun some times don’t shine full speed in winter, you may not get full production if your panel isn’t facing straight toward light source. Look at some of the personal weather stations in your area for day time solar watts per square meter. You may have a new hobby keeping up battery system. You may or may not be able to sell back thru meter to your local power co, find out before you jump in. You may also want a back up gen if sun not on and power is out, and batts are dead. Whole new life style and hobby. If you have natural gas for heat and running gen set, that is plus. Propane not so much. If heat with wood insert, that would be good also. Being young would also be an advantage.

[woodbutcher]

:grin: The only solar install that I have any knowledge of is the water heating system that my Dad installed when the house he built in 1949.All I got to say is be careful of the hot water when you turn it on.Boiled buns if not careful.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[rancher1913]

there are a lot of good "plug and play" systems nowadays. the remote cattle water system we put in was about 6 grand total but that included fencing and 2, thousand gallon tanks. the system was very easy to assemble, it literally plugged together and is one of the best investments I have made to my infrastructure. the system came with pump, panels, wires, and controllers for about 3 grand.

[MaryB]

It is 2 wire DC, plus/minus so if you can handle basic wiring it is a DIY project. Make sure your racking for the panels can hold the wind load! If you go battery size your panel output to the battery charge requirements.