Gun Broker Question..

[goste]

Hi Guy's, I have been using gunbroker, as a resource, for only a short time. I have only purchased 3 firearms, in the last year,.. No problems.

I found a pistol I would like to purchase, (Gen3 Smith & Wesson). The seller only has 2 past sells, and the 2 reviews are excellent. For payment, he wants a certified check, or paypal (?). I'm not sure a certified check has any buyer protection, and PayPal ? is that even legal for a firearm? I know paypal will help out, on a bad transaction sometimes, on something legit, But, I'm not sure how that would work, on a PayPal gift, (I think is what it's called.)
My question, is should this be ringing warning bells? It's a common pistol, and the only reason I'm tempted to purchase online, is it's at a pretty sweet price. I don't want to hold the low sell count against the guy, cause I know everyone has to start somewhere. Shipping and all would be about $300.00. I sent him a message asking if he would accept a postal money order, and he responded in the negative, that certified check, or paypal gift (?), was the only form he wanted. So, should I do the deal, or wait. I don't need the pistol, but would like to have it. I doubt I can find one local for any where near the price.

Is this one I should stay away from? Many thanks in advance.

Caspar..

[jmort]

I do a lot buying on Gun Broker.
I would not do the deal.
He should be reported tozgun Broker

"We don't allow PayPal members to buy or sell any kind of firearm, whether it's in working order or not. The same goes for certain firearm parts and ammunition. ... Any firearm, including rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they're for sport and recreation, collectibles, or curio or relic firearms.
What is PayPal's policy on transactions that involve firearms?"

[tradbear55]

If he won't accept a us postal money order I would be cautious. I have bought guns from gunbroker sellers using paypal, but paypal will probably not help you on a gun sale if it goes sour.

[salpal48]

I would never do a paypal gift for anyone . You has the buyer have no recourse.As to a certified or bank Check. this only implies that the fund are there and ready to be claimed. you as the buyer have no recourse

[am44mag]

USPS money order or a credit card are the ONLY options I would entertain. Paypal is not going to protect you when they find out you bought a gun (they'll freeze your funds), and I won't even consider using a check of any kind. If they won't take a USPS MO or CC, walk away.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The only way I'd use pp for the purchase of an item like that, is if I trusted the seller more than I trust pp, ...and he won't accept a USPS MO? then NO DEAL !

[tigweldit]

I like Gunbroker. I don't like, or trust, Paypal. I feel they did me wrong in the past.

[goste]

Well, I got another email this morn. Now he tells me he will be happy to take a postal money order, or visa. Strange..

[Petrol & Powder]

You're taking a chance and you have to come to terms with this question: "Am I willing to risk and lose this money"?

If you're willing to risk the money, do it. As for Pay Pal - I have no use for it.

A first class envelope with a M.O. is the cheapest but provides no tracking. Methods that allow tracking will add to your expense but you will know if the recipient received the money order (or at least someone signed for it). In any event, you're trusting the seller and that's all there is to it.

[Hogtamer]

nonononono

[Thin Man]

If you are serious about making the purchase, ask him to deliver the merchandise to his FFL dealer. Then you talk with that dealer and get the first 3 and last 5 characters of their FFL and run them through the ATF's easy check system to confirm they are a licensed FFL holder. If the dealer is legit and will hold the firearm until your payment arrives, and then that dealer will ship the item to your FFL dealer, I would feel better about the deal.

[MrWolf]

Run from it. Did almost the same thing and was shipped something in a different caliber. Went downhill from there. Now on I only use credit cards.

[richhodg66]

I've had pretty good luck buying on gunbroker, but I do check feedback and I like using USPS Money Orders. Unless it's obviously a big dealer who I can call and do a credit card transaction, MO is the way to go. I'm not fond of paypal for a lot of reasons.

Patience is a virtue, by the way. The only thing gunbroker and similar seem to offer is the ability to look for something specific and hard to find, if it's a common gun, I'd go look around LGS in the area and buy from a brick and mortar place. Face to face is always better.

[Tripplebeards]

You can register your credit card with PayPal. Then charge to it and dispute the transaction with your card company to get your money back if the deal goes bad. There will be a fee for using your card through PayPal...and well worth it to cover your butt if it's a fraud but This transaction sounds fishy to me. I'd pass

[Handloader109]

Paypal F&F for a gun? NO WAY unless it might be one of you guys here...... Gunbroker? No darn way. And I would do as suggested, take to Dealer, Confirm VIA telephone and Fed site that it is at dealer.
Let HIM pay dealer to ship to you after you pay the Dealer however the dealer wants to be paid.

[Kraschenbirn]

If you and the seller are not located in the same state, transfer of handgun MUST go FFL to FFL. As ThinMan suggested, obtain contact info on his FFL and go from there. If the seller doesn't want to ship through an FFL, my advice would be to report the seller to GB and drop the whole deal like a (very!) hot rock.

Bill

[osteodoc08]

Danger Will Robinson..........

Too many red flags. Just walk away. Like you said, it’s a common model (theoretically making fraud less likely); but it’s a common model.......find a different seller.

[DerekP Houston]

That would be some major red flags for me, I've been burned on Gunbroker once but eventually got my money back. Think I would consider paying slightly more for a more reputable dealer.

[goste]

My sincere Thanks', to those who responded. Yeah, I guess I'll pass. Sorta getting into the S&W metal series late, prices are going up. One of my LGS, has a close model, but IMHO, he's about $150.00 to high. Same store has a SD9VE, for $369. (ouch). I'll just keep on hunting, I guess that's half the fun.

Thanks again People..
Caspar

[richhodg66]

I know you've considered this, but once you figure in shipping and dealer transfer fees (some of which charge a lot), paying a little more at a brick and mortar isn't so bad. And all that is if you get exactly what you thought you were getting and there weren't any problems to deal with. Common, current production model = go to a gun shop.

[Smoke4320]

I know This answer is late and you have probably made your decision .. But here goes. As a FFL dealer anyone who wants paypal for a gun purchase payment is a huge RED FLAG as Paypal specifically forbids gun purchases.
Seller keeps your money ships nothing and you end up with nothing.
And the order Certified check, well again you are out cold .. Everything about this screams RUN AWAY

[goste]

Well,
Even tho I really want this pistol, I decided to hold off. Another Gunbroker question if I may. When they say no reserve, but have a minimum bid, Well..... isn't that a reserve ? Could I bid under that, and would they have to accept it if the have no reserve ? Sorry for jacking my own thread..

[DerekP Houston]

Well,
Even tho I really want this pistol, I decided to hold off. Another Gunbroker question if I may. When they say no reserve, but have a minimum bid, Well..... isn't that a reserve ? Could I bid under that, and would they have to accept it if the have no reserve ? Sorry for jacking my own thread..

The minimum bid is usually the amount needed to cover over the last bid, EX if I have bid 440, the minimum bid would be 441 to beat mine. The seller is free to set whatever start price they want but if there is "no reserve" on the item whoever has the high bid will win. Typically you will see either a really low start price with a reserve or a higher start price with no reserve, everyone wants to make money on a sale after all ;).

The exception is if they have a "buy it now" price offered, you can bypass the bidding and just buy the item directly if that price suits you.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

No USPS No Deal. The 'Starting Bid' does establish the seller's minimum price, like a reserve would, but a reserve is not displayed. A high reserve with a very low starting bid wastes your time. The 'Starting Bid' is honest and saves you time. Yeah minimum must cover the starting bid or the last bid.

[goste]

DerekP Houston , MostlyLeverGuns,

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to a newbe…
I always wondered why some really good looking stuff would have no bids, and some stuff that looked the same had a lot of bids.

I assume that a lot of people don't want to waste time bidding on a reserve item ? Makes sense...
Thanks again people. I really appreciate the new knowledge, that has maybe kept me from doing something stupid..

[Mr_Sheesh]

IIRC if you mail a cashier's check or whatever and the seller tries to defraud you, can't you get the USPS Postal Inspectors involved potentially? Anything sent through the mail is their domain, I believe... No expert on that though.

[rr2241tx]

Unless you are willing to throw the money into the fire, don't spend it on on-line auctions. Sure, most of the sellers are just trying to move inventory but you really have no idea who you are dealing with and if the item is misrepresented or just never shows up, you are sunk. Postal Inspectors won't help you if you're dealing with a fraud because their idea of helping is to mail a postcard to see if the address is valid. Been down that road, and the walk back. Shipping insurance won't help you, the shipper is the insured party. If you don't get your merchandise, the shipper (eventually) gets paid for his loss a second time. Paypal not only won't help you, they will freeze any account balance you may have with them and close your account. That said, I have purchased firearms off several of the on-line auctions and mostly gotten what I thought I purchased. A couple of notable exceptions where I really got skinned and eventually had to take my lumps and get over it.

In answer to your second question: Minimum Bid reflects the next bid increment the site allows over the high bid prior to yours. Sellers generally have a minimum amount they are willing to accept. There are two ways for them to insure that the item sells at or above that price. Setting a Reserve allows them to start the item at a low enough price that it will be at the top of the list that a potential bidder sees without obligating them to sell at a price less than they wish to sell the item. A lot of bidders get hooked on the chase and will bid well above their estimation of the item's worth trying to beat a high reserve or another bidder. Setting a Starting Price at the minimum they are willing to sell for is another way to get their item out there and marginally cheaper for the seller. These are typically items for sale by private individuals who may or may not have a realistic idea of the value of the item offered. The real gonzos are the $.01 starts with No Reserve. Those guys are selling stuff they have zero equity tied up in. There's a good chance the item is forfeited pawn collateral and the seller knows absolutely that whatever it sells for will cover his investment. Be sure you understand the shipping costs before you decide how much you are willing to bid. Most of the listing services, eg. Gunbroker, recover their fees from the seller. Traditional auction houses that operate on-line charge the seller AND the buyer a pretty substantial fee based on the hammer price. Typically, the buyer's premium plus shipping will add about 20-25% to the hammer price. The up side to that is that an auction house will probably have a much more realistic opinion about the condition of the firearm and your new toy will arrive on time in good order. The hole in your wallet will eventually heal.

[DCP]

If you and the seller are not located in the same state, transfer of handgun MUST go FFL to FFL. As ThinMan suggested, obtain contact info on his FFL and go from there. If the seller doesn't want to ship through an FFL, my advice would be to report the seller to GB and drop the whole deal like a (very!) hot rock.

Bill

Wrong
If you do not have a Federal Firearms License:

Any shipper who does not have an FFL is considered to be an unlicensed person. Unlicensed persons must ship modern firearms to a licensed FFL dealer only. If the buyer is not licensed, they will need to make arrangements to have the item shipped to a licensed FFL dealer in their state.

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wants to see it.

[snowwolfe]

It doesn’t matter what form of payment you use, you could be cheated.
And it doesn’t matter what form of payment you send, it could just as well be an honest transaction.

[zymguy]

there seems to be an opinion that a usps mo protects the buyer in some way? How so?

[Mr_Sheesh]

For certain it protects the seller - I've seen people send a Money Order from some random company they make up (Not quite as bad as "Crazy Frank's Money Orders, Wine, and Used Appliances, Inc." but some made up bank etc.) and if the seller sends the item before that MO clears, they lose their item. (Said MO won't clear, of course. So if you get a MO treat it like a personal check, unless you KNOW the seller's a good guy) - USPS PMOs are more official and I'd think counterfeiting one of those would get you in trouble with the government. (Not sure but I think the US Secret Service chases counterfeiters?)

[Walkingwolf]

IIRC no protection on paypal gift. Otherwise I use paypal often, just bought a AGV helmet for the wife factory direct using paypal. Usually paypal sides with the buyer in disputes.

[Geezer in NH]

2 feedbacks, not an ffl PASS.

[goste]

Well, guess I don't have to worry, Someone else got it for the "buy it now". Hope it works out for them.

I would once again like to thank every one, for the time and knowledge. This has been an interesting thread for me. With so many Brick and Mortars, closing down, Seems like before long, If I want to buy a firearm, it will have to be online. With so much good advice from those who have done it before, I may, hopefully, not get skinned.