Recommend a 38 or 357 6 inch for target work?

[brewer12345]

I have been having problems with leading with my Security Six. Even after a trip to the smith and some work, I am still back at square 1. I will try a harder alloy and see if that helps, but otherwise I think I will soon be relegating this to plated/jacketed only. Wile I love the revolver and it is a joy to shoot, with a 4 inch barrel it isn't ideal for target stuff and I loves me my wadcutters. I have been thinking about a 6" or longer barreled revolver in 38 or 357 for a while. I was hoping for some suggestions.

I would love to own a model 14 smith and go back to the heyday of bullseye shooting, but my snooping around leads me to believe that nice examples are nearing a thousand bucks. With my eldest starting high school and me frantically trying to pad the college fund, that sort of expenditure just isn't happening. So what are my alternatives? I don't care if the brand is off the run (I own and like Baikal shotguns) and used/out of production is fine, but I do want good accuracy potential, at least a 6 inch barrel, a decent trigger, and a gun that will hold up to a bunch of wadcutters and similar loads that are on the high end of standard pressure 38 special. Does this sound like a Smith model 10? Something else? 357 would be nice simply because it gives more flexibility, but not necessary.

[dbmjr1]

Have you considered a 5.5" Ruger Blackhawk?

[bgw45]

Drop by a LGS and check out a GP100. Enjoy mine!

[357Mag]

Brewer -

Howdy!

IF your hands can accommodate, then I suggest an “N” frame S&W.

More specifically..... an older “pinned barrel “ 5” M-27. These are superbly balanced, and handle recoil well.
These will command a pretty high price, if in great shape. The ones I had the good fortune to shoot were
Hype-accurate, shooting felt-tilt Magnum loads.

More easy to find.... a 6” M-28 “ Highway Patrolman “, also w/ a pinned barrel. The ones I got to shoot were all wonderfully accurate.

With regards,
357Mag

[357Mag]

Brewer-

Correction to previous....

..... “ full-tilt” Magnum loads....


With regards,
357Mag

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't know why you're getting leading in the Security-Six but I would try to resolve that issue before I purchased another gun.

Harder bullets are rarely the solution to leading. We would need more information on the leading but I'd be willing to bet the knowledgeable folks on this forum can help you with that issue.

As for a 6" barreled DA revolver chambered in 38 Special, that shouldn't be difficult either. Personally I think 6" DA revolvers should be relegated to target shooting and hunting (sounds like you're in the target shooting category, so no problem there).
Just an informal observation made across several decades - But I see far more used 6" barreled revolvers for sale than I do 4" guns. I think a lot of folks buy the 6" guns and find that they are too long. They seem to be sold or placed on consignment more often that 4" guns.
If you're specifically looking for a 6" gun, that works in your favor.

I picked up a lightly used S&W model 14 for way less than a $1000, they're out there, you just have to wait and have the money in your in pocket when one presents itself. Don't be afraid to use Gunbroker or one of the other on-line sites to find what you want. Even with shipping and transfer fees you can often do better than bricks & mortar stores. Gun shows are another route and again, knowing exactly what you want and having the cash in your pocket is the key.

There's a "sticky" on this forum that covers how to inspect a DA revolver. It's worth reading before you start shopping.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?353160-Revolver-Inspection-The-Right-Way-aka-Wheelgun-101


In the new revolver arena, the 6" GP-100 is certainly a good choice both in terms of value and potential accuracy.

[Petrol & Powder]

And I just did a quick search on GunBroker for 6" barreled revolvers chambered in 38 Special and found 190 examples, many with asking prices under $600.

[bob208]

I don't think the leading is the pistols fault. it is either the bullets or the lub. I have been to matches where the guys were scrubbing lead out each round. they were using bought bullets the lub was too hard. another was using bought bullets that were swaged. they were too soft. they both tried my bullets not leading at all.

I used a 6" colt op. it was a police tread in. I used it for bullseye falling plate and some other matches.

[brewer12345]

I am about done trying to figure out why the Security Six is leading. Consider it a dead issue that I will not be revisiting for the purposes of this discussion. I have chased my tail and spent good money with a smith to no avail. Time to move on. If it becomes a field and carry piece I only use plated and jacketed in, so be it.

What is a "pinned" barrel? I know nothing at all about S&Ws.

[HeavyMetal]

You've not mentioned what work you've had done to the Security Six and I'd be a little wary of changing brands of pistol in hopes of clearing up the problem.

Instead list any and all improvements made in your gun. Also show the load or loads used in it and show as much detail as possible in the component and bullet!

Are they cast or store bought? Have you checked bullet diameter before and after loading, so many little things could cure your problem.

Let us help before you buy a new gun.

HM

[brewer12345]

I have done all of that in other threads, nothing seems to help. Every load shoots fine and does not lead in a snub and a lever action rifle, but the Security Six leads up something awful. I am extremely frustrated and done trying to figure it out. Ready to move on. In any case, I wanted a longer barrel for target stuff anyway.

[Petrol & Powder]

..............

What is a "pinned" barrel? I know nothing at all about S&Ws.

In the world of S&W revolvers a "Pinned" barrel refers to a small pin that goes through the frame and locks the barrel shank in the frame. The pin intersects with the threaded portion of the barrel shank and prevents the barrel from backing out of the frame. S&W discontinued the use of that pin and newer revolvers just relied on the torque applied to the barrel (referred to as a crush fit) to hold the barrel in place.

The term "pinned" is also often combined with the term "recessed" which refers to the old practice of counter boring the rear face of the cylinder so that the cartridge rims were recessed into individual pockets for each cartridge rim. Guns that had both the pinned barrel and recessed chamber cuts are refereed to as "Pinned & Recessed" models, sometimes just abbreviated as P&R.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have done all of that in other threads, nothing seems to help. Every load shoots fine and does not lead in a snub and a lever action rifle, but the Security Six leads up something awful. I am extremely frustrated and done trying to figure it out. Ready to move on. In any case, I wanted a longer barrel for target stuff anyway.

Fair enough but people are offering to help you.

[Livin_cincy]

I have had a 5" GP100 for nearly a year. When I went shopping, the 4" felt short and the 6" felt long. I read about 5" revolvers being common in the early days. I had to order it as they do not exist in gun shops as far as I can tell. Very pleased as it seems balanced.

You can replace the sights, springs, grips, & add shims easily on the GP100. The stock Hogue grips are really ugly... but very functional.

I replaced the Hammer Spring with the lightest from Wolf.

It is very smooth after being broken in.

[tazman]

I recently purchased a new 6 inch S&W 686 for around $700. It shoots great. At least as well as my model 14 with a 6 inch barrel.

[chutesnreloads]

Since you like the 4" barreled one aside from the leading...I'd suggest just getting another Security-Six with a 6" barrel.Never had a leading problem with mine.

[Handloader109]

Taurus 66 in stainless 6" less than $600, maybe close to 500 depending on your dealer. My 4" works fine with no leading

[brewer12345]

Fair enough but people are offering to help you.

I appreciate that very much. The knowledge that posters generously offer here makes this forum the jewel that it is. I am just super frustrated with leading issue and wish to table it for now. I may come back to it at some point, but for now I really just want to let it be. The revolver shoots the lights out with Berry's plated DEWC over 4 grains of HP38 so until I am ready to try again with cast that is what I will shoot through it.

[Walks]

I've had a Security-Six in STS since March of 1976. It started out with a 2 3/4" bbl. 1st round out of the gun just about blinded everyone at the indoor Range. MAXgrs of 2400 under a Thompson Gas Check bullet lubed with 50/50 sized .358dia.
Recoil felt heavier than my 5" S&W 29. Shot just half a box before I had to stop. By request of the other shooters. When It was time to clean it the forcing cone was PACKED with lead and there was a great deal of leading in the bbl. The cylinder throats were absolutely clean, but there was leading inside the frame at the B/C gap.
I was shocked & stymied. I'd slugged the bbl, the day I got it. .3575 average of 3 pure lead slugs cast from an old wadcutter mold that dropped at .360.
The bullets were cast of LYMAN #2 and used the old brass colored slip on gas checks.
I had some heavy elbow grease to get that blasted thing clean. I next tried some #358495 WC's 143grs over 3.0grs bullseye in a .38spl case. Alloy was plain COWW.
No leading at all.
Other loads I tried started to lead as soon as velocities went over the 1000fps mark.

Due to the severe leading issue & snappy muzzle jump, I just wasn't happy with the gun.
After about 6 months I sent it back to RUGER for a 6 inch bbl. In those days they returned the old bbl with the gun.

What a difference, same .3575dia. But no leading with any load.

But I was bitten by the short bbl bug. I bought a Speed-Six in .357 w the 2 3/4 " bbl in blue the next year. No leading, still shoot my "Heavy Target" load of the 170gr KEITH Bullet over 6grs UNIQUE in a .357MAG case.
I think you should try to find that 6" bbl .357 in a used BlackHawk or that 6" model 28. There both heavier but may be an answer.

But maybe get a empty coffee can and put your change and what ever few extra bucks you find in your pants. Save for that old 6" S&W 14. I love mine, got it used over 30yrs ago. Think I've shot at least 60,000 rounds thru it, as tight as the day I got it. Nothing is as smooth as a well used S&W.

As a WARNING TO ALL. That OLD LOAD of MAXIMUM of 2400 under a 158gr Bullet was with the OLD FORMULATION of 2400. If you put that charge in a gun today you might just blow it to blazes.
So please don't load anything hotter then the CURRENT MANUALS SHOW.

[Greg S]

Search GB under revolvers for 'ppc' and see if some old mdl 10,14,15s don't turn up with a slab barrel and old sight rail. I picked up a converted 586 for under 425 with a red dot to boot. A draw back is most are set up for DAO so a new hammer and possibly a trigger will have to be ordered up from Numerich Arms.

[Tatume]

I recently purchased a new 6 inch S&W 686 for around $700. It shoots great. At least as well as my model 14 with a 6 inch barrel.

Also, if you want blued steel, consider the six inch S&W Model 586.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/revolvers

[ubetcha]

I don't know if this will help, but my 4" 357 Security Six loves my load. Lee 158 rfn , alloy of 2-1 ww-pb, sized .358, Tac1 lube with light coat of BLL, 6.2 gr Herco. No leading. I don't think I have ever shot a jacketed load ever in this revolver . Have used cast since I bought it new.

[reddog81]

$1,000 for a model 14??? There a pair of super nice K-38's on the S&W forum for $750 and $775 a piece. I don't know where you're looking that they're more than that.

[brewer12345]

$1,000 for a model 14??? There a pair of super nice K-38's on the S&W forum for $750 and $775 a piece. I don't know where you're looking that they're more than that.

Perhaps I am estimating the market too high. Will watch some auctions and see what prices really are.

[oldsalt444]

For bullseye shooting, try the Ruger GP100 Match Champion. On Gunbroker they go from $500 to $850. If you start with a run of the mill 38 revolver, you'll probably end up spending money on getting the throats reamed, trigger job, etc. and will cost the same anyway. I spent $900 for my S&W K38 6" target (pre 14) and I haven't regretted it. It is superbly accurate and that large hammer spur makes rapid fire go smoothly.

[rfd]

fwiw, i no longer cast for handguns - pistols and revolvers - and use acme or precision hi-tec coated lead in my S&W model 60 .357mag and SA mil-spec 1911 .45acp. zip, zero, nada leading, more accurate than my guns' operator. :)

[Sig]

Another vote for the GP100. Absolutely love mine.

However I would first measure your cylinder throats & see if they need to be reamed.

[T-Bird]

+1 for a 6" Smith 686.bought mine used several years ago. Don't remember exactiy what I paid (400$?). Doug Guy did the cylinders (prob wasn't necessary, but made me feel better) and all it's ever seen is cast. Shoots great. Thought it was leading but after "talking" to people here, what I thought was leading was just fouling- cleaned very easy and no lead on the patches.

[TCFAN]

For one hand Bulls eye shooting I find that my S&W 686 handles and shoots as good or better than my old S&W 14-6. Using the Lyman 358495 WC boolit with 3.2grs. of Bullseye powder loaded in a 38 special wadcutter case my 686 will put 6 rounds almost in the same hole at 25 yards from a bench rest using a 4 power scope.For target shooting I use a red dot sight. For the last 20 years or more all S&W come from the factory drilled and tapped for scope mounts.

If you want a revolver for target shooting a 686 is what I recommend.I have not been disappointed in mine at all.I have over 8000 rounds through mine in the last 2 years and it very seldom sees a cleaning rod.No leading ever and all it ever sees is lead wad cutter boolits.

[mattw]

Look for an old 686-2 with the adjustable front and rear sights. I really love mine, used it a lot shooting plates at various ranges.

[DerekP Houston]

Im a bit of a model 10 enthusiast, I have a 6" model and my favorite 10-10 4" model still out shoots it. I'm a sucker for a nice old S&W!

[marek313]

For bullseye shooting, try the Ruger GP100 Match Champion. On Gunbroker they go from $500 to $850. If you start with a run of the mill 38 revolver, you'll probably end up spending money on getting the throats reamed, trigger job, etc. and will cost the same anyway. I spent $900 for my S&W K38 6" target (pre 14) and I haven't regretted it. It is superbly accurate and that large hammer spur makes rapid fire go smoothly.

I love my GP100 MC and the extra couple $$$ are def worth it over standard version. I really wanted 6" half lug barrel but you cant get that on GP100 and full lug 6" is so front heavy that it makes it unbalanced. 4.2" that it comes with is enough for me so thats what I got.
On the other hand my friend has S&W686 with 6" barrel and it shoots nice but its again front heavy.

[Yooper003]

Seen a big Taurus stainless in the case in Gander the other day, it looked just like the "Ragin bull" it was in 357. Didn't ask to handle it , was afraid what would happen. Less than 600$

[tazman]

I owned a Taurus model 627 for several years. & shot 357 mag with a 6 inch ported barrel. It was superbly accurate.
Never had an issue with it functioning. Only one thing about it I didn't like. The case ejector was short. It would not push even 38 special brass completely out of the cylinder.
It finally aggravated me enough I traded it. The new 686 I replaced it with shoots every bit as well.
The 686 has the 7 shot cylinder, the lawyer lock, and the new barrel. I get zero leading with cast and great accuracy.

[osteodoc08]

Smith 586/686 would be my choice but there are plenty of good ones out there.

[Texas by God]

Get a model 15 Dan Wesson. They shoot Very Well.

[Drm50]

For Wadcutters a S&W K38 m14 is hard to beat. I've bought 3 in last year on line. One NIB for
$650 & 2 high condition shooters at $500 k $550. The m19 6" guns are about the same, the least
popular m19 barrel length. I have a couple of them too, the k38s out shoot them. The NIB is still
unfired. I just scored a high condition 27-2. 6" for $750. I have a 83/8" and shoot WCs in it and
it does very well. There is a big cult of S&W buyers after 4" and shorter barrels. Another bunch
of 83/8" freaks. The bargin is 6" guns and thats ok with me the bulk of my S&Ws are 6". The best
size for target and field carry. I never buy guns with names that sound like they should come with
a order of breadsticks, buy American.

[Mackay Sagebrush]

A Model 14 would be my first pic. 6" barrel, very well known/long history for being superbly accurate. Great target shooting revolvers. N Frame .38/.357s are nice but for shooting .38s there really is no reason not to run a K Frame if you are not shooting magnums.

[str8wal]

Drop by a LGS and check out a GP100. Enjoy mine!

Love mine as well!

[Bigslug]

I've seen a bunch of old K-frame Smiths in both .38 and .357 that are out of spec in various ways. Yes, a lot of that was probably from abuse back in the day, but it tends to illustrate that the venerable K, despite alloy changes, may be early 1900's tech that needed more time to mature. They aren't as gorilla-resistant as I'd like, and the old ones aren't going be be falling under the lifetime service policy.

6" Ruger GP-100 is where I'd go. My mother bought one a couple years ago when she got bored with retirement. We broke it in with the lockwork excessively coated with CLP and judicious shooting both DA and SA. That gun is now almost mystically smooth and is in no way ashamed it isn't a Colt Python. Still in production and covered forever.

[tazman]

Lots of recommendations for GP100 revolvers here. Unfortunately I can't recommend them. They have a lot going for them with their near indestructible build. Ruger's guarantee helps a lot.
My experience with Ruger revolvers, including 4 different GP100 handguns, has been poor. I like the way they feel in my hand. They can be made to have triggers as good as any manufacturer makes.
None of them would shoot for me. No matter the load or boolit combination. They just didn't work.
My S&W revolvers all perform well. Substantially better than the Rugers ever did.

[engineer401]

Lots of recommendations for GP100 revolvers here. Unfortunately I can't recommend them. They have a lot going for them with their near indestructible build. Ruger's guarantee helps a lot.
My experience with Ruger revolvers, including 4 different GP100 handguns, has been poor. I like the way they feel in my hand. They can be made to have triggers as good as any manufacturer makes.
None of them would shoot for me. No matter the load or boolit combination. They just didn't work.
My S&W revolvers all perform well. Substantially better than the Rugers ever did.


I too have better luck shooting SandW revolvers. They have a better balance and fit for me.

[Drm50]

I have nothing against Rugers but I have yet to get one out of the box that compares with S&W.

[Forrest r]

I have nothing against Rugers but I have yet to get one out of the box that compares with S&W.

+1^^^^^

Another vote for the s&w 586's/686's
Bought my 1st 586 back in 1987, a 6" bbl'd 586. It was a laser, was nothing to shoot the primers out of shotgun shells @ 50ft. Bought a 4" bbl'd 586 that was just as accurate and foolishly sold it to help fund a s&w 41. I still have a 3" bbl'd 586 that's more than accurate enough for my needs.

A couple of years ago I bought a nib 686. I've done nothing to it, no spring changes/grip changes/swap sights/nada. These are not hand picked/cherry picked targets by any means. They are nothing more than the actual test targets used when I was testing loads for that box stock unaltered 686/6-shot groups @ 50ft.
https://i.imgur.com/AL4WBux.jpg

Others have suggested a used ppc revolver. They flat out shoot.
https://i.imgur.com/k2b51Hx.jpg

Dan wessons are another excellent choice. A pair of dw's with heavy bbl shrouds and muzzle breaks that burn piles of full house 357's or can just as easily shoot bugholes with wc's with their 1 in 10 twist bbl's.
https://i.imgur.com/T0ngH1D.jpg

If I had to choose 1 revolver it would be the 6" bbl'd 686.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

My 686 is too old to have a -x, 6" barrel. It is my most accurate handgun, I have never been a 38/357 fan but the accuracy keeps me shooting this gun. It doesn't take much to slick up the 686. Leave the mainspring alone, polish the rebound block and reduce the rebound spring. My sinlge action let-off is 1.9 lbs, the DA runs a very smooth 9. It is just a pleasure to shoot mild loads. Like all 357's muzzle blast is miserable with top loads

[anothernewb]

I have done all of that in other threads, nothing seems to help. Every load shoots fine and does not lead in a snub and a lever action rifle, but the Security Six leads up something awful. I am extremely frustrated and done trying to figure it out. Ready to move on. In any case, I wanted a longer barrel for target stuff anyway.

Something to think about. I'm not sure of the older ones, but several rugers were known to have tight throats - my GP100 has very tight throats, as in right under .357. Jacketed rounds come through slightly scraped. lead will shave. There's a member on this forum that does cylinder work and can open those throats, if that is indeed the issue.

[Dale53]

I have a number of both Rugers and Smiths. If I were asked by the original poster to recommend a specific revolver for his needs, I would, without reservation, recommend the 686 Smith. I have both a CS-1, 4" and a 686 with 6" barrel. Either of them will shoot a variety of my home cast bullets under an inch at 25 yards off a rest. Both revolvers, as is typical from Smiths old and new, came with excellent triggers right out of the box. ALL of my Rugers required a trigger job (single action, double action, and auto pistols, they ALL seem to need it).

The 686 has a couple of advantages that other .38/.357's don't necessarily have. The trigger has already been mentioned. The 686 cylinder is long enough that the longer bullets (say the Keith 358429, as an example) can be loaded in .357 magnum cases and crimped in the crimp groove (unlike the Model 27, as an example). Further, the 686, being chambered in .357 has reserve strength when shooting light loads in a .38 Special case. If an error is made when charging the cases, you are MUCH less likely to have a "Kaboom!" than if using a "K" frame Smith, as an example. Further, the Smith 686 can be had at what I call "reasonable" money as so many of them were made and are still being made. This allows excellent value for the price.

Because of vision problems, I use a Red Dot sight on most of my handguns, and it is quite nice that modern Smith's come drilled and tapped for scope or Red Dot.

FWIW
Dale53

[Jtarm]

I don’t subscribe to the notion that either brand or even model has a monopoly on accuracy.


The most accurate DA .357 I’ve ever owned is an S&W 66-7. I attribute that to the two-piece barrel. I once owned a 586 no-dash that was pretty “meh” in the accuracy-wise.

My OM BH is wicked accurate with cast boolits.

I cant comment on the GP100 as I just traded for my first one and it’s a 10mm.

Now if I were looking to a particular brand for a the most accurate 6” .357 DA, I’d go with a Dan Wesson, but the new ones from CZ are over $1,000. I might look for an original 15 or 715.

There are still S&W Model 14s to be had for under $1K. I’m still sorta-kicking myself for passing on a no-dash for $525.

[dverna]

I don’t subscribe to the notion that either brand or even model has a monopoly on accuracy.


It is possible that some brands/models may have a better chance of being more accurate. But YMMV.

[bobthenailer]

IMO A s&w 686

[El Bibliotecario]

Even in the long ago era when I shot competitively, the autoloader had already proven superior to the revolver in side-by-side match shooting. If I wanted the best centerfire target pistol, I would look for a S&W 52. Having said that, if I wasn't obsessed with winning but just wanted to enjoy myself, I would look no farther than a S&W Model 14--and save a lot of money.

[Jtarm]

It is possible that some brands/models may have a better chance of being more accurate. But YMMV.

Well, yeah, the 66-7 will shoot rings around earlier, one-piece barrel guns. That includes L-frames. Unfortunately, the 66-7 and current -8 aren’t available in 6” length.

I’ve read Wiley Clapp sing the praises of the GP100s accuracy, but I believe his preferred loads were full-house .357s using jwords.

If I were making a choice on which current brand, purchased new, would likely deliver the best accuracy, I’d go Dan Wesson.

[jimlj]

+1 for Dan Wesson revolvers. My 30 plus year old 715 shoots better than any S&W, Ruger or Taurus I have ever owned. My only complaint is I don't like the way they finish the end of the heavy vent rib barrel. I'm just not brave enough to take a grinder and round it off a bit.

Edit.. Wow, I just looked at the price of these. Most are asking north of $1000. $320 north in fact. Still bet if you look and wait for the right deal you can find a used one for about half that.