Winchester 1873

[BobInAus]

Good afternoon gents,
I have an 1873 Winchester rifle in 44 WCF, manufactured in 1892. I have just acquired some Trail Boss and looking for a good load that would fall within the 13,000 cup range. I wish to try it out with lead boolits on the light frame Fallow Deer that we have here. I am thinking with the knowledge base out there someone will be able to help me with this quest.

Regards

Bob

[bigted]

1892 is still the black powder era steel in your model 73. Having said this i doubt very much that you will get enough velocity with keeping to the low pressure needed to keep your rifle safe, you safe and enough horse power to reliably take semi large game. If smokeless is the only powder you will consider, then i would lean towards a slower powder then the bulky trail boss.

On the other hand, you can do what you desire with a case full of 2Fg Ol E powder. Both velocity and deer hunting power to be combined with a load that will never hurt a rifle that is sound and shootable.

Prolly not waht you hoped to read tho.

[indian joe]

1892 is still the black powder era steel in your model 73. Having said this i doubt very much that you will get enough velocity with keeping to the low pressure needed to keep your rifle safe, you safe and enough horse power to reliably take semi large game. If smokeless is the only powder you will consider, then i would lean towards a slower powder then the bulky trail boss.

On the other hand, you can do what you desire with a case full of 2Fg Ol E powder. Both velocity and deer hunting power to be combined with a load that will never hurt a rifle that is sound and shootable.

Prolly not waht you hoped to read tho.

Bob - Bigted - unless things have changed recently choice of black downunder is wano or swiss ------swiss is prolly double the money but will get substantial velocity gain over wano in a 44/40 (maybe plus150FPS or better) .......decisions .... decisions!!!!!!!!

[BobInAus]

Bigted, thank you for the reply.
When you say black powder era steel, did you mean iron in the first ones produced? I always thought steel replaced the iron frames in the late1880’s.
I do use BP. My go to load is a 38 grn compressed load of 3F behind a Winchester 200 straight lead boolit from a Winchester mould. Do you have any idea of the CUP that this load would create?
I read somewhere that a 17.7 grn. of 5744 (maybe AA5744) is safe in the ’73 Winchesters. Do have any knowledge of this smokeless powder?
Thanks again for the info.
Regards
Bob.

[BobInAus]

indian joe,
we did have Swiss and while it was a little more expensive I copped that because even though I didn’t have a Chronograph I always felt the old 44 went off with a little more authority. Sadly now though I am unable to get my hands on the Swiss.
Regards
Bob

[CamoWhamo]

Hi Bob,

ADI publish load data for Trail Boss in their Single Action Section here: http://www.adi-powders.com.au/single-action-pistol/44-40-winchester-44-40-wcf/

They list 6.5gn of Trail Boss for 11,900psi. Velocity is listed as 826fps in a 6" barrel. Your rifle should get a bit more, approx 1000fps in a 20" barrel.

I have the QuickLoad software and it calculates the pressure to be a bit lower than ADI's data.
I have ran loads of 7.5gn and 8.5gn in a modern Winchester 92. Velocities were exactly as Quickload calculated at 1095fps and 1160fps respectively.
Pressures reach 15,000psi at those levels so i would stick to ADI's data.

[BobInAus]

Hey CamoWhamo,
Thanks for the info. I was hoping to get a little more than 1000fps while staying under the 13,000cup. I am now thinking that a slower powder might get there. I saw a thread regarding RL7. It is supposed to duplicate black powder ballistics. I will look into that a bit more.
Thanks again.
Regards
Bob

[Texas by God]

Have you tried Unique? 8 or 9 grs with a 200 gr should be in that ballpark.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[KCSO]

Actually Swiss FFFg black is just what you are looking for 1320 or so FPS and safe pressure and with the right lube excellent accuracy to 300 yards.

[bigted]

The trail boss is not a powder id want in my 73 [1884] as the 13000 cup should not be surpassed in the early steel made guns altho they are really made of better stuff then the old iron frames and barrels.

The 5744 powder is good stuff but no first hand knowledge so no comment on it.

The 2Fg black powder will run a bit less. Pressure then the 3Fg but neither will go beyond what is safe in your 73 rifle.

44WCF did some tests with RL 7 powder and swore that it stayed in or under the 13 k pressure. Full case of powder yeilded him 1300 fps and still shy of the 13K cup. I would except any written dope from him as he was a fine experimenter and reporter of his findings. His word is bible for me but even tho i would start low and build it as you should when loading any cartridge.

Blackpowder has many advantage;

... ability to bump up lead boolits to seal.
... pressure not exceeding the original intentions.
... very easy clean up after shooting.
... that smell that ALWAYS makes me grin.
... sparks n fire as well as the smoke cloud.

These things will NOT be duplicated with any other type powder. These were built around the original powder and work so well with it that i have trouble going to other powders to make them what they aint.

There are modern model 1892's that WILL do what was never intended in the 1873. The 92 is tough and easy handles 44 mag and 357 mag which will get you further velocity wise and overall power then the 38 and 44 WCF's altho other then range and flatness of ballistics ... the critters are no tougher then they were when these great ol cartridges were the hot rod stuff.

[enfield]

I agree with the 2F loads, I have a 1889 made 73 in 38-40 and have only used BP since I got it ( I bought it used ,i'm not old enough to have bought it new :) )

[Michael J. Spangler]

Subscribed for info

[BobInAus]

bigted,
there seems to be a number of members that have access to cup instruments to measure pressure. Are they readily available for John Citizen to purchase?
Regards

Bob.

[bigted]

This is above my pay grade so to speak. I have often desired a "home testing kit" to determine cup or psi in a chamber ... however none exist as far as i know.

I take reputable written tests of others and go by this. Maybe someone knows a system i am in the dark about.

[Outpost75]

Oehler 43 with the ballistic testing module will measure pressure, but you would have to drill the barrel, something I would not do to an original Winchester. If you had a modern rifle to use as test platform, you could use that as a guide.

[bigted]

I have estimated the cost, for me at least, is prohibitive. I glean info from outfits such as Lyman to base my loading on. I trust them simply because of their longevity and accurate reporting consistently of their findings. They have test barrels and sophisticated equipment to determine actual numbers based on actual pressure chambers and firing actual ammo in them.

There are systems that figure pressures based on factors entered in the system , however these are based on a math equation instead of actual pressure vessels which i certainly think i trust instead of the accuracy of an equation.

[Michael J. Spangler]

There is this system.
Not too expensive at all and can give actual pressure data.
Pretty awesome. I believe Larry Gibson has this

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

[bigted]

There is this system.
Not too expensive at all and can give actual pressure data.
Pretty awesome. I believe Larry Gibson has this

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm



That is interesting.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
We load as much 3F Goex as the case will take with one cereal boxwad under the 40-1 cast. Our second model 1873 and a 1894 73 have never been upset. At 50 yards the 200 grainers are going to rip a right smart hole through the breathers in a corn cruncher.
A 220 grainer cast of range scrap same 3F powder is our choice for popping the shoulders.
We hunt river bottoms so have no data on longer shots. Have no need or desire to stress a 125-140 year old Winchester.
Mike in ILLinois