Astra hammer spring

[Battis]

Does anyone know of an easy (at least easier) way to install the hammer spring in an Astra 400? I managed to do it, but I had to take it all apart again (waiting for a new magazine catch stop).
Basically, in a vise, I compressed the spring with a screwdriver tip, then installed the magazine catch over it (instead of trying to use the magazine catch to depress the spring).

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It's a difficult three handed job, as I recall, and your system sounds like a good way to go. 224300
I've done a few of them, but when you've worked on a lot of guns it becomes hard to
remember exactly how you accomplished some tasks, so I usually operate on a "will
cross that bridge when I come to it" basis. Memory usually doesn't improve with old age.

[Battis]

I have several Winchester Self Loaders and replacing the recoil spring is very hard. Someone even wrote a book about the .351 SL, and included in the book is a method to install the spring. Basically you force feed the spring into the bolt. But, I found what I think was the original factory method to install the spring; you pre-load it in the bolt and then install the bolt. It's much faster and easier. I was hoping there was a "factory" method to install the Astra spring. Maybe from the top...
Anyways, I only have to do it once more.

Nice collection there...

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I have several Winchester Self Loaders and replacing the recoil spring is very hard. Someone even wrote a book about the .351 SL, and included in the book is a method to install the spring. Basically you force feed the spring into the bolt. But, I found what I think was the original factory method to install the spring; you pre-load it in the bolt and then install the bolt. It's much faster and easier.

Nice collection there...

Thank you. I have 2 or 3 more that didn't make the photo. One is in the 1,000 s.n. range. There is a fellow on the Gunboards.com forum by the name of Bob from St. Louis who knows just about all there is to know about these Astras, and used to have some of the rarest specimens, but I believe sold most of them off a few years ago. He's a nice guy and we've even done some business in the past, but I no longer visit those forums as, unlike this one, folks are very unpleasant. There's coincidentally another Bob from St. Louis who posts on this forum, but he's not the same guy.

Preloading the recoil spring in the Winchesters sounds like a good system.

[Battis]

For what it's worth, I think I discovered the factory method of installing that spring. There is a hole on each side of the bottom of the grip frame that seems to serve no purpose (near the holes for the grip screws). A round rod through that hole can act as a fulcrum for some sort of tool that would compress the spring tip. In the pic, if I pull up on the screwdriver handle, the tip of the screwdriver pushes down on the spring. I have no idea what the tool might have looked like, but I think the fulcrum is the key.

[2152hq]

The M400 magazine catch is designed to be taken out and then replaced with the Mainspring and it's top and bottom followers removed from the gun,,as well as the guns Hammer being removed from the gun.

No spring pressure at all to work against in removing the mag release or in putting it back into the pistols frame.
Very little or no mainspring pressure on the hammer when removing it or replacing it in the frame

What needs to be done first is to remove the slide from the pistol. That'll require removing the magazine from the gun.

Then remove the grip screws and take the grips off the pistol.
**Keep the grip screws segregated and so they go back into the same positions they came out of.

Now place the magazine back into the frame.

You have the frame w/ magazine inserted in it. THE HAMMER IS COCKED,, LEAVE IT THAT WAY FOR NOW....

On the left side of the frame where it would have been covered by the left grip panel is the trigger bar lying horizontal.
Just under that trigger bar is a small empty hole down in a milled out area.
**Find yourself a pin or punch that will just slip into that hole.

Now with the hammer cocked, insert the 'pin or punch ' through that small hole. You may have to slightly push the hammer back a little to get the pin through. But what you are doing is sliding the pin just in front of and to the side of the front follower on the main spring,,,and holding it in position.

With the spring and follower secured with the pin,,,now press the trigger and let the hammer fall forward.
Dampen the fall of the hammer with your thumb as there will be a bit of spring tension applied yet
The mainspring is captured by the pin and only the hammer with it's guide will roll forward.

Push/drive the hammer pin out of the frame from the left side to the right and lift the hammer out.

Now with a thin screwdriver or other small dia rod, reach down into the mainspring hole in the frame from the top and push the follower w/spring back a bit to allow you to withdraw that pin you inserted in the frame.
Pull the pin/punch,,and then let the mainspring with it's front and rear guides up and out of the frame.
** Eye protection a must!!--Carefull around springs especially captured and compressed. This one is not compressed very much but can still snap out and do damage to you.

Some time the spring doesn't want to slide out freely,,old oil and dirt in the mainspring channel.
But with the spring relaxed, you can now turn around and easily remove the magazine catch and it's limiting pin.
Take the catch out of the gun.
Then the other end of the mainspring w/followers will be easily accessable to be pushed out of the frame for cleaning and inspection.

Reinstall the mag catch first.
Then slide the mainspring into the frame from the top with the proper follower at the front.

Use the screwdriver or rod from before to once again depress the follower and spring just enough to allow your 'pin' to be inserted thru the frame to catch and hold the spring in place.

Replace the hammer in the frame making sure it's extension/follower seats onto the spring OK.
Then reinsert the hammer pin thru the frame. This should not be a struggle to do,,at most a slight push on the hammer to line up the hole for the hammer pin.

Then remove the pin/punch from the frame,, reassemble the rest of the gun,,and you are back in biz.

[Battis]

Just under that trigger bar is a small empty hole down in a milled out area.
Great info. That hole is the key to the process. I figured there had to be a better method. I wish I had found it before.
Thanks.

[Texas by God]

There was an article in the American Rifleman years back about the Astra that featured pictures of bizzare folding stocks and extra-longslide models. As well as photos of the children working in the plant!

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[Texas by God]

Astra curiousa- one of my 1921/400s came with a weak recoil spring. I replaced it and one boring day I put it back in and it would shoot and function with .380acp ammo as long as I only put 5 in the magazine! I sleeved the chamber of one to use 9mm Luger and my nephew is still using it 25 years later.

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[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, if curiosa is o.k. here, then I'll contribute that there used to be a company, I believe now long gone, named Federal Arms Co. (FAC) and they had some Astra 400 and Star Mod. A&B barrels made up new in S. Korea. My first 400 had a bad bore, but still shot surprisingly well, but I acquired a new barrel for it anyway. I also had a Star Mod. A that became a Mod. B when I changed out the Largo barrel with a new 9mm Luger barrel. Some other collector that owns it someday will scratch his head over having an A in 9mm Luger. I think I might still have a couple of extra new barrels packed away somewhere, but which ones (and exactly where) escapes me. It's interesting how many unsightly bores will still shoot fairly well.
But, many don't.

[Texas by God]

The woman on the right knows how to shoot an Astra. She let the instructor shoot it once and that's the flyer haha.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/ab192adc063d90838a6b02ff33b3f108.jpg

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[Der Gebirgsjager]

Really a great photo! Thanks for sharing it.

[Battis]

Did she have any problem working the slide? My wife can't do it.

I went back to The Store the other night and the Star 9mm Largo is back in the case. They're asking $350 for it which seems about right. Very tempting.

I went to the range with the Astra and Walther P38 a few days ago. I set up a target stand next to me to bounce the spent 9mm Largo cases off to keep track of them. Then I fired the P38 but the spent cases weren't bouncing off the stand. I had a DUH moment- I had forgotten that the P38 ejects to the left.

[Texas by God]

I showed her the difference in working the slide with a cocked hammer and uncocked hammer and told her not to dry fire it. The slide is easier to work with the internal hammer precocked. Funny that several men were concerned about her using "that thing" and offered the use of their Glock etc. She said no and outshot everyone.
Compressing that footlong recoil spring is challenging!

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[Der Gebirgsjager]

Nice looking lady. Nice looking pistol. Good shooting, that's for certain. And I like the photo in your avatar. What's on your horn, a plastic garbage can lid? :wink:

Battis, it sounds like our handgun preferences are similar. What's next, a Luger?

[Battis]

I've looked at the Lugers, but they're always over $1000. How are they as shooters?
I still have an 8mm St. Etienne "Lebel" revolver (with the Sweetheart grips) that I haven't fired yet. I have the dies and the mold, and just have to cast some bullets.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Lugers as shooters -- well, they can be highly individualistic. Actually, I think the Astra 400 and 600 are more accurate and reliable than Lugers taken as a whole. While some pistols like Astras and 1911s will shoot surprisingly well with worn and pitted bores, Lugers seem to lose accuracy under those conditions. They are more ammunition sensitive, and although you would be unlikely to find yourself using one in trench warfare conditions, they are more sensitive to dirt in the action. However, given a good one, they are very accurate and reliable. Just like the 1911s, they made a whole bunch of them from around 1906 to 1944, and they were made by several manufacturers in at least 3 countries that come to mind.
You are correct that it is easy to spend over $1k for a good one, but cheaper ones are around if you carefully watch the on line auctions. For example, a big thing collectors look for is matching numbers on the component parts, but in the '50s and '60s many were assembled from left over WW II parts or salvaged parts and built into complete pistols for issue to the VOPOS who were the East German Border Guards. These do not have the matching numbers but are usually functionally satisfactory and cost less.

I've acquired, shot, and reloaded for many military and obsolete firearms over the years, and some nice, new modern ones as well and it's been a wonderful hobby. The Lebel is one that I've never tackled, but they have a great history and reputation.

Here's a photo of a VOPO Luger I brought home from Germany in the early 1960s when in the Army. Cost me $28.00 through the Rod & Gun Club, but it was sizeable at the time as I was making $84.00 per month. I think the base pay for a Private was $76, but there was a couple of extra dollars for overseas pay and expert rifleman. :-D Looking back on it, the amazing thing was that the Company Commander allowed soldiers to have privately owned weapons, but they had to be kept in the Arms Room safe. A couple of years later I acquired a P-38 for $65.00. By then I'd made Sgt. and was pulling down about $224.00 per month, so the financial pain was proportionate and relative. It was (is) a cyq (Spreewerk).

224896

Funny though, the last maybe 6 years I've shifted over to black powder replicas and replica cartridge guns. It's hard to have a favorite, but I think it might be this one: (I'm pretty sure if TBG ever dropped in for a visit I'd have to hide it.) :wink:

224897

[Battis]

The P38 I have was made by the Germans, assembled by the French when they took over the factory at the end of the war, and sold to the Austrian Police. Great gun.
I've gone in the opposite direction, starting with BP revolvers and moving up to more "modern" guns.
This Paterson is an early repro that I bought last winter at a gun show.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Nice revolver, Battis. I don't have one of those. :(

[Texas by God]

DG, It's not stealing if you leave something in it's place, right?[emoji16]

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[Battis]

I went to the range with the Astra and P38 again today. For the heck of it, I fired a few 9mm Luger rounds (hand loads, low end starting charges) in the Astra - I know, not a good idea. I read that the shorter 9mm Luger round would be pushed too far into the chamber for the firing pin to reach it, there might be problems with feeding and ejecting, etc. But, each round chambered perfectly, ejected perfectly, and the accuracy was really good, even out to 100 yds. I stripped the gun and saw no signs of damage. I will not do it again, but is it common for these rounds to work?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

DG, It's not stealing if you leave something in it's place, right?[emoji16]

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Naw...that would be a swap. Did you ever read any of the old Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan tales? Every time Jordan would visit Skelton he'd "borrow" a firearm. Must have been some truth to it as they both mentioned it in their writings. :-D

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, 9mm Luger in the Astra 400 has been done many times by many people with varying degrees of success. The problem is that the auto pistol cartridges headspace on the mouth of the case against a built in shoulder in the chamber. The Luger round is considerably shorter than the Largo, so it is supported in it's chambered position only by being gripped and held against the face of the slide by the extractor. A weak extractor spring or worn extractor will allow the Luger cartridge to slip farther into the chamber and position itself beyond the firing pin's strike. If the extractor is good, and I note that you recently installed a new spring, then you're putting undue wear on the extractor itself, and should it break you'll experience a lot of difficulty in finding a replacement. To me, not worth it. Get an Astra Mod. 600 for shooting the 9mm Luger round.

[Battis]

I'm missing something as far as the rounds headspacing in the P38 and the Astra.
I removed the barrels from each gun. A fired, empty 9mm Luger case (or a loaded 9mm Luger round), will drop right into the P38 chamber, down to the shoulder where it headspaces. A 9mm Largo case (or loaded round) will drop down to the same shoulder, and since it's longer, will stick out.
An inverted 9mm Luger case and a 9mm Largo case will slide into the chamber of the P38.
An empty 9mm Largo case (or loaded round) will drop into the Astra chamber. But, an empty 9mm Luger (or loaded round) will not drop into the Astra chamber as far as the 9mm Largo case (or round). In theory, the 9mm Luger case or round should drop in further. The 9mm Luger case head is larger in diameter.
So, where is the 9mm Luger case headspacing in the Astra?

[Texas by God]

On the extractor and the tight fit at the base of the cartridge.