Better Ladles?

[PBSmith]

All of my casting experience comes from ladle work, using the old style Lyman ladle. After lengthening the shank of this tool so I can get deep into the molten lead without burning the wood handle, I've generally been satisfied with its function.

Nonetheless, I've been concerned that, even with frequent fluxing, scraping, stirring and skimming, I might be getting crud in the ladle cavity that could find its way into the mold.

Are there better ladles out there, and if so, why are they better?

Thanks.

[Wayne Smith]

Larger bottom pour are available. Better? I doubt it. I have one and prefer the Lyman.

How deep is your pot, anyway??

[Nobade]

Check out Rowell ladles. They feed from the bottom like a gravy ladle and make minimize contamination. I have one I use for smelting ingots but have never cast bullets with one, I use the RCBS ladle for that.

[jmort]

I have a Lyman, a RCBS, a Rowell #1 and a Rowell #7 for ingots.
I really like the Rowell #1, but the other two work just fine. The Navyvet1959 name as best as I can recall, former/current member, who is MIA devised a ladel with a 3/32" hole in the bottom of a plain soup ladle, which I want to try. Fortune Cookie 45 has a video on it. Fortune Cookie liked it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I don't use a ladle from casting boolits, But many do. It seems the Rowell is the way to go.

Post #9 in this thread has a photo comparison to Lyman...and a short recommendation.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?212012-Lyman-Lead-dipper-vs-Rowell-1-ladel

[PBSmith]

Wayne, I use three different pots:
1. Electric Lyman Mould Master whose bottom spout has been plugged. Owing to its small diameter, this is not my favorite, but in hot weather it's cooler than firing up propane. If I keep this pot full, the depth of molten lead is about 5". This is probably the dirtiest of the three options because of the small surface area of molten lead.

2. Twenty pound, open Lyman cast iron pot over propane, depth of lead probably about 3-4".

3. Dutch oven, filled to a depth of no more than 2-1/2." My hunch is that this set up gives the cleanest casting because I can bring the loaded ladle up through a cleaner surface, any surface junk being concentrated in one area of the melt. It's also the hottest and least efficient heat-wise.

In all of these, I submerge the ladle to the bottom when loading up.

[PBSmith]

I don't use a ladle from casting boolits, But many do. It seems the Rowell is the way to go.

Post #9 in this thread has a photo comparison to Lyman...and a short recommendation.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?212012-Lyman-Lead-dipper-vs-Rowell-1-ladel

Thanks for that link. I searched the topic before posting but obviously missed it.

[Bent Ramrod]

Cast-iron ladles do have a tendency to pick up the surface dross that forms on the molten lead. I keep a candle nearby, lighting it to drip in wax for fluxing, and using the flame to light the smoke while I stir. Unlit, the wick can be poked into the ladle spouts to keep them clear, and a drop of wax or a touch of the candle will get the worst of the deposits off the ladles.

I found an aluminum ladle that sheds the dross very well. Unfortunately, it gets so hot so quickly that the wood handle is uncomfortable to hold.

Paul Matthews wrote an article once where he had a welder make up “the Perfect Ladle” for the large boolits he cast. It held more lead than the Lyman ladle, but was not too heavy to use. As I recall, the dimensions were very close to those of the RCBS ladle, which came along soon afterwards.

[John Boy]

Nonetheless, I've been concerned that, even with frequent fluxing, scraping, stirring and skimming, I might be getting crud in the ladle cavity that could find its way into the mold.
Step 1: Flux you ladle in the pot every time you cast - any dross will go into the melt and be removed
Step 2: With the fluxed laded in the melt - tap the ladle on the top of the pot to removed any more dross
Step 3: With a Dermal polishing wheel - scrape the inside of the cavity to remove the the high spots of the cast metal which minimizes any dross buildup
Works for me - with any ladle

[jmort]

Here is link for soup ladle from Fortune Cookie 3/32" hole per Grumpy Old Man, aka NavyVet1959. I am for sure going to try it. In the video it seems to work well and Fortune Cookie 45 liked it.
https://youtu.be/-ZQQ159QJCo
Around 7:40 of video as I recall.

[RogerDat]

Lyman little dipper because of the spout seems to help keep dross in the ladle but because of the irregular shape I think it tends to pick up more.

I have a stainless steel ladle I was going to drill a small hole in to use as a bottom pour ladle. Just have not gotten around to it. Frankly I may never get around to it. I don't use 6 cavity molds, and faster fill of those is one advantage it has. Bottom pour looks like it really works best with a big pot of hot lead which means propane fish fryer, lot of wasted heat compared to a Lee 20# pot. Maybe this winter when the heat from the burner will be welcome.

Would like to try a Rowell bottom pour for ingots one of these days, can't have clean pot lead easily if one doesn't have clean ingot lead to fill it with. I skim my ingots poured in bread loaf pans, and do find as another member posted that a large surface area while it gets more tin oxide is easier to just push stuff to one side and draw from clean lead.

[jmort]

I have a Waage K4757 and it is rightlyfully held in high regard. Also have Lee Magnum Melter. Dedicated melting pots work better for casting as opposed to open flame. Save the open flame for ingots and alloying.

[country gent]

I use 3 ladles off and on. The old lyman, I have 2 of these. The rcbs I have 2 of these also but 1 has been modified to a double spout for my 2 cavity moulds. Last is a rowel #1, Im thinking of shortening the handle on this one about 4" to the length of the lyman and rcbs so the 1 lb capacity has less leverage on my wrists. All my ladles have a stop ring on the shank of the handle. This allows me to leave the ladle iin the pot and the handle away from it by hooking the stop on the edge. Its just a little stop collar wiith set screw to lock it in place just past the balance point. Leaving the ladle in my pot helps maintain its temp much better.

My casting pot is propane fired and holds 100+ lbs of material, this maintains a very even heat range due to the mass there. I cast with 2 moulds running at a time. My bullets are bprc rifle bullets so 360 grn to 550 grns in weight 38 cal to 45 cal. I normally run for 4-5 hours in a session.

When filling the ladle I drop it into the lead and make a swirl around the pot . This also helps to keep the dross out of the ladle with it to agitate the pot and fill the ladle with the hottest material possible. I then fill the cavities with the full ladle over filling and letting the excess run back into the pot. THis keeps te bullets hotter longer and allows better fill and off gassing.

Discarding the first 8-10 fills on the pre heated moulds I seldom have a 1/2 grain spread on the bullets. I normally run 20-1 alloy at around 700* on my lyman thermometer

[PBSmith]

Step 1: Flux you ladle in the pot every time you cast - any dross will go into the melt and be removed
Step 2: With the fluxed laded in the melt - tap the ladle on the top of the pot to removed any more dross
Step 3: With a Dermal polishing wheel - scrape the inside of the cavity to remove the the high spots of the cast metal which minimizes any dross buildup
Works for me - with any ladle

John, would you mind telling me how and how often you flux your ladle? Are you using it to stir your flux agent into the melt, or do you flux your ladle another way?

If I could keep a clean ladle, that would lessen my concern about crud going into the mold cavities. I wire brush mine several times in the course of casting, but sometimes it almost seems like a magnet for dross. When casting, I keep the business end of the ladle submerged in the melt as often and as deep as possible, which seems to help as opposed to letting it float on the melt surface.

[PBSmith]

I use 3 ladles off and on. The old lyman, I have 2 of these. The rcbs I have 2 of these also but 1 has been modified to a double spout for my 2 cavity moulds. Last is a rowel #1, Im thinking of shortening the handle on this one about 4" to the length of the lyman and rcbs so the 1 lb capacity has less leverage on my wrists. All my ladles have a stop ring on the shank of the handle. This allows me to leave the ladle iin the pot and the handle away from it by hooking the stop on the edge. Its just a little stop collar wiith set screw to lock it in place just past the balance point. Leaving the ladle in my pot helps maintain its temp much better.

My casting pot is propane fired and holds 100+ lbs of material, this maintains a very even heat range due to the mass there. I cast with 2 moulds running at a time. My bullets are bprc rifle bullets so 360 grn to 550 grns in weight 38 cal to 45 cal. I normally run for 4-5 hours in a session.

When filling the ladle I drop it into the lead and make a swirl around the pot . This also helps to keep the dross out of the ladle with it to agitate the pot and fill the ladle with the hottest material possible. I then fill the cavities with the full ladle over filling and letting the excess run back into the pot. THis keeps te bullets hotter longer and allows better fill and off gassing.

Discarding the first 8-10 fills on the pre heated moulds I seldom have a 1/2 grain spread on the bullets. I normally run 20-1 alloy at around 700* on my lyman thermometer

Gent, thanks for sharing those details. The large size of your melt, it seems to me, works in your benefit. I believe most of my problems are in using that old Mould Master with its puny diameter. As a bottom pour I suppose the diameter of the pot isn't of any concern. With its bottom plugged and casting with a ladle, the operation seems to generate more dross than it should, regardless of how well I've fluxed during smelting (which I never do in the casting pot, btw).

Probably the Lee 20# Magnum would be better, but I believe an even larger melt might give a cleaner operation.

Not sure that I actually have a problem - just wanting to learn the techniques and equipment other ladle people use.

[PBSmith]

Bent, I'll have to give that candle trick a spin. Thanks for sharing.

[PBSmith]

Here is link for soup ladle from Fortune Cookie 3/32" hole per Grumpy Old Man, aka NavyVet1959. I am for sure going to try it. In the video it seems to work well and Fortune Cookie 45 liked it.
https://youtu.be/-ZQQ159QJCo
Around 7:40 of video as I recall.

Watched the video and will be keeping an eye out for a kitchen ladle. The Rowell looks like a swell tool, pricey but it might be worth it. I couldn't use it in the smaller of my pots, but for the Dutch oven it would be fine. I appreciate you posting the link to Fortune Cookie. He makes excellent videos.

[jmort]

Navyvet1959 has been MIA for about 6 months
Hope he is OK
I like Fortune Cookie
His videos are good

[John Boy]

John, would you mind telling me how and how often you flux your ladle? Are you using it to stir your flux agent into the melt, or do you flux your ladle another way?
PBSmith ... I flux the ladle every casting session - put the flux in the pot - touch a match to it to stop it smoking then stir in the flux with the ladle. I flux the melt twice and do the same with the ladle

[Chill Wills]

Check out Rowell ladles. They feed from the bottom like a gravy ladle and make minimize contamination. I have one I use for smelting ingots but have never cast bullets with one, I use the RCBS ladle for that.

You might try it once. That is all it took for me.

The square back RCBS is a the same as the old Rapine mold Co. ladles they sold. I doubt Ray made them but rather re-sold them and I suspect RCBS contracts them too.

Rowell ladles; Bill Ferguson, bless his heart, talked me into a 1 ponder and a 6 pounder 30 years ago. One or two casting sessions with the #1 is all I needed to know. My Lyman "egg" dipper = good. Rcbs or my Rapine (again - they are same thing) dipper = better!
I cast a lot of BPCR bullets. It is just great.

[Walks]

I clean my LYMAN Ladle after each session.
I polish the outside with #0 steel wool. Then I wrap a ball of steel wool around an old .30cal cleaning brush and run it around the inside using a cordless drill. Easy does it. I run a drill bit BY HAND through the spout.

[PBSmith]

In July 2013 cb member soldierbilly1 started a thread on Spoon/Ladle cleanup.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?143571-Spoon-Ladle-clean-up

Good reading there, esp regarding the yellowish compound (lead oxide?) that builds up on ladles and cast iron pots. FAsmus and others warn about putting this into the air (and your lungs). I see this on my ladles after an hour of pouring and don't know if fluxing as described in this thread will remove it.

Wondering if bottom pour pots are any safer in this regard?

[Chill Wills]

In July 2013 cb member soldierbilly1 started a thread on Spoon/Ladle cleanup.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?143571-Spoon-Ladle-clean-up

Good reading there, esp regarding the yellowish compound (lead oxide?) that builds up on ladles and cast iron pots. FAsmus and others warn about putting this into the air (and your lungs). I see this on my ladles after an hour of pouring and don't know if fluxing as described in this thread will remove it.

Wondering if bottom pour pots are any safer in this regard?

Never miss an opportunity to turn your pot temperature down to the lowest setting that you can cast great bullets. Often after working with a mold for a while you get a feel for what it takes to pour a good bullet and at that point you can try lowering the heat. The lead oxide will be next to nothing casting at 700 - 725F and great bullets and health are the reward.

[abunaitoo]

When I first saw the title, I thought it was "Better Ladies"

[winelover]

Rowell #1 for small bullets in 2 cavity moulds. Large bullets in 3 Cavity and up..........a Rowell #2 ladle. I shorten the handles, for better balance.

Winelover

[PBSmith]

When I first saw the title, I thought it was "Better Ladies"

No doubt some of us could use help in that department as well.