What's left to use?

[Jim]

It seems all the mil-surp powder is drying up. I haven't seen 7383 in months. There's still some 820 and 860 around, but it looks like those are fading fast, too.

Anybody got any suggestions on a milsurp that would be usable in medium to large capacity cases? I shoot a lot of '06, 8MM and .45-70. With the price of some of the milsurps, I can get the same deal from Sporty's Whorehouse by buying a 8 pound jug. Plus, I don't have to buy 4 jugs to save the hazmat and there's no shipping.

[Obsolete]

Jeff's site still shows WC872 , WC 860 and 4895 ( The 4895 he says is a little closer to IMR 4064 in burning rate )....

http://www.gibrass.com

[felix]

Which means his 4895 is on the dry side. Better than being on the wet side because of nitroglycerin leakage. ... felix

[MT Gianni]

For the 308/30-06/Xx57 cartridges 13 gr red Dot works well and is affordable. 2400 in an 8 lb container is good also. Gianni

[Linstrum]

Cost IS darned important but is not the whole picture.

About ten years ago I calculated the cost per round of loaded 7.62x54R (or .308 Winchester, the two are very, very close) when using 13-grains full retail price Red Dot and compared it to what the same round cost using a full case of WC860 pull down. I found that the Red Dot load was just slightly cheaper. There was a difference, though, I was getting about 2000 fps with the WC860 boosted with 2.5 grains of IMR4198 and only about 1500 fps with the Red Dot. The accuracy was a grunt hair better with the WC860 as well.

For punching holes in paper at 100 yards either one is fine. Some hunting situations either is also fine. However, since bullet energy is what is important in "killing power" and since Bullet Energy = 1/2 Mass times Velocity^2, the WC860 load is the better hunting round at long range or for large animals like elk, moose, and some of those Utah mule deer I have seen lately.

I do keep a jug of IMR4895 and some .308 180 grain Sierra Game Kings around here in bear country, I don't want to lose any sleep at night worrying if those Lee .309 180-grain boolits are going to do the job backed with WC860 when confronting an upset 600-pound New Mexico black bear in the back yard here. That scenario is not the best situation to do a performance comparison.

But the over all picture is that MT Gianni is 100% correct, the Red Dot and 2400 loads are entirely acceptable as well as very economical powders in todays market.


rl436

[Lloyd Smale]

I use alot of 820 not anymore because it cheaper, I use it because it works. Recently the price of surplus has been about taken out of the picture economicaly anyway. If a guy has to pay a 100 bucks for a keg and a keg of comercial powder can be bought for 120-130 its not worth the hastles of buying it because its cheaper. Just about every lot of surplus powder ive bought varys quite a bit in burning speed and in some cases it varied enough that load developement had to start over. Once i burn enough to get my loads tweeked back in id have been better off just buying comercail powder. I the good old days when it cost half what commercail powder did it was well worth it buy not anymore imo. Even my precious 820 can easily be replaced with comercail aa9. Those dealers who charge a 100 bucks a keg should have there knees broke as they are making astronomical profits off of it at your expense.

[evan price]

I heard that the US.gov is now specifying all small arms components including pulldowns are to be destroyed instead of sold as surplus, so that means, no more milsurp anything very soon.
I can't confirm this, supposedly it came from Pat of Pat's Reloading.

A sad day when items bought with OUR tax dollars will be destroyed instead of being made available to those of us who paid for it to begin with.

[carpetman]

Evan Price--IF all small arms components are being destroyed it was Clintons fault. Certainly ol gun owners friend keep your powder dry St George dWi Bush wouldnt do such.

[Scrounger]

Anybody think maybe the reason is to keep it from competing with newly manufactured (and more expensive) components. Anti-gun? Maybe, but more likely somebody in Washington trying to help his business buddies. Not as lucrative as an Iraqi building contract, but probably requires a smaller donation....

[357maximum]

It does not matter the why the how or the who...you can always get the answer by following the money.

Why did Chris Columbus "officially" discover america hundreds of years after everyone else? Because England wanted it that way for financial gain. ]

Why did Clinton make it harder for law abiding subjects to get surplus (cheap) military gunpowder...some feller related to a man with the last name of DuPont could likely answer that question more thoroughly than I can.

[BABore]

It does not matter the why the how or the who...you can always get the answer by following the money.

Why did Chris Columbus "officially" discover america hundreds of years after everyone else? Because England wanted it that way for financial gain. ]

Why did Clinton make it harder for law abiding subjects to get surplus (cheap) military gunpowder...some feller related to a man with the last name of DuPont could likely answer that question more thoroughly than I can.

Ummmm, me thinks Christopher Columbus, born in Genoa, Italy, was granted the monies and ships by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, of Spain to discover the new world.:killingpc

[GrizzLeeBear]

Ummmm, me thinks Christopher Columbus, born in Genoa, Italy, was granted the monies and ships by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, of Italy to discover the new world.:killingpc

Actually it was King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain.

Oh, and if GWB is such a gun rights "Saint" why hasn't his administration (along with our great supporter the NRA) done anything to reverse the Clinton order and stop having the surplus destroyed? Homeland security I suppose, but I think he's just as glad to have it out of our hands as well.

[BABore]

Yep, that was a typo on my part. Ole Chris was living in Portagul at the time. As fellow Michigander's, we must forgive 357Max. He was born and raised in close proximity to Midland's nuc plant.:bigsmyl2:

[357maximum]

I stand by my original statement about mr columbus.

[spurrit]

I heard that the US.gov is now specifying all small arms components including pulldowns are to be destroyed instead of sold as surplus, so that means, no more milsurp anything very soon.
I can't confirm this, supposedly it came from Pat of Pat's Reloading.

A sad day when items bought with OUR tax dollars will be destroyed instead of being made available to those of us who paid for it to begin with.

Correction: A sad day when items bought with OUR tax dollars will be destroyed instead of being made available FOR A PRICE to those of us who paid for it to begin with.

[357maximum]

Yep, that was a typo on my part. Ole Chris was living in Portagul at the time. As fellow Michigander's, we must forgive 357Max. He was born and raised in close proximity to Midland's nuc plant.:bigsmyl2:


Actually it was King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain.

Oh, and if GWB is such a gun rights "Saint" why hasn't his administration (along with our great supporter the NRA) done anything to reverse the Clinton order and stop having the surplus destroyed? Homeland security I suppose, but I think he's just as glad to have it out of our hands as well.



The textbookbook version is so nice and clean no wonder they forced it upon us.

Yall are too damn trusting.

How many poeple do you actually think thought that the world was flat?

http://www.trinicenter.com/Gilkes/03091998.htm
http://www.theinsider.org/reports/columbus-report/
http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/464357

there are other thoughts..but they are out there:veryconfu

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm

[missionary5155]

When you really get desperate you can try tearing down military 308 and crushing the powder (some is real hard) in an old coffee cup and then "Slowly" increasing charges in whatever you want to reload. Works well in straight wall revolvers... Just takes alot ot itme in the crushing work... but it sure beats throwing rocks.

[spurrit]

I suppose you could put some in a coffee grinder....... on the end of a long extension cord.

[missionary5155]

I suppose you could put some in a coffee grinder....... on the end of a long extension cord.
Electricity and grinding Surplus Powder. I might have tried that when I was sitting on a pile of ammo at some dump in the middle of no where on Christmas Eve (1972) hunting .50 cal M2 tracer ammo to make another Mini-mortar .... but today I am far more advanced than that... Any ol´anvil next to the fire pit and a decent 6 pound flat face hammer....