Improvement of my Good 1oz Lee Slug Load

[BigMrTong]

I made to changes to my existing load. One was kind of by accident and one out of annoyance, but the effect has been great.

I shot the 5 below free standing ay 50 Meters, and as I was just plinking that day I wasn't even trying, so very happy.

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My usual Load is : 2.75" Cheddite Cartridge - HS6 Powder - Paper disc - MEC 10z Straight wall Wad - 1oz Lee slug with my "rocket" fin tail Wad.

I have been happy with this and got good groups, but have been having powder leakage past the wad and thats why I have put in the paper disc under the MEC wad
However I have still had some fakes up in the column if bumped around, so in frustration I used a 12g over shot card disc. This worked.

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Another thing that changed, and by accident was the hulls. I accidentally bought the 3" and not the 2.75". This gave me a deeper roll crimp.

[Blood Trail]

Would you be interested in selling some of those tail wads?


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[longbow]

I tried a 6 finned lead slug from a mould I designed and built about 10 years ago. I figured those fins would be better than a hollow base as they would spread forces over the wads rather than wads push up into the HB. At first fins collapsed on slugs cast from ACWW so I heat treated them then the fins didn't collapse but the wads took a terrible beating! I had to put polyethylene disks under the slug to fix that.

The slugs flew okay after all the adjustments but I never got very good accuracy.

Your plastic tail wad is a much better idea as it adds drag and effectively makes the slug much more nose heavy. I like it.

Are you finding any damage to the bottom of the shotcup?

How do the plastic tail wads look on recovered slugs? Any distortion? What plastic are you using?

Most attached tailwads I've seen have stems or cushion sections just like a factory plastic wad and they seem to distort there. Your solid tailwad on the slug seems like a much better idea to me. Any cushion section that can distort is on the discarding factory wad.

Good work!

Longbow

[upnorthwis]

I too am interested in this tail wad. Please tell us all the details. Presently I can't keep slugs on the man size USPSA target at 50 yards.

[Grmps]

Are you 3D printing these?

[longbow]

upnorthwis:

What slugs are you shooting?

What gun?

Components?

My worst experience is with the Lyman Foster slug which wouldn't stay much under 12" at 50 yards (8" was a good group) but even that is better than missing a man size target!

[upnorthwis]

Lee 1 oz.
Rem 870
24 gr. Universal
Clay Buster CB1100-12
Win HS hull
The powder could go higher but the recoil is downright abusive.
upnorthwis

[longbow]

Have you recovered any wads? Was will tell a story. If the petals are wrinkled, torn, gone, gas seal blown or other obvious damage that will indicate that the fit to bore or pressure or something is wrong for that wad/slug.

Are you fold or roll crimping?

Do the wad petals stick out past the nose of the slug? If so they should be trimmed to the shoulder of the slug or if there is room in the wad column then use nitro card wads to space the slug out further or select a wad with longer cushion and shorter cup.

Are you using a nitro card wad under the slug? While the Lee Drive Key slug is supposed to allow some distortion of wad into hollow base so that drive key grips for rifled guns, I've found that some wads are damaged by the drive key. Since I shoot smoothbore the drive key is not necessary so I use a nitro card wad under the slug as I would with any other HB slug.

Are you shooting smoothbore (I'm assuming) or rifled gun?

Are you casting slugs from soft lead or hard alloy?

I don't see that list of components in any of the Lee loads listed with their mould instructions. Where did you get the load data?

Did you do a push through your barrel to check fit of slug/wad? You should have a snug slip fit. Ajay (SuperBlazingSabots) recommends about 10 lbs. to push through the bore. Too loose a fit will give poor accuracy and too tight a fit will likely result in damaged petals so poor accuracy.

There's lots of "little" things to sort out when loading slugs. At least that is what I found. Ajay (SuperBlazingSabots) has lots of posts showing good combinations of components and fit to bore. Lots of good load suggestions as well. You will likely need to experiment some to find what works in your gun.

I'd start be checking wads to see what they look like after firing. If they are damaged then try different wads. If not then I'd suspect fit is too loose. Those are a couple of obvious and easy to check items. It may be as simple as changing wads.

Longbow

Hmmmm, I guess that constitutes thread drift! You should start a new thread if you want to get more info and opinions on your load.

[BigMrTong]

If you have a printer, I can send you the model. If not, PM me your address and i'll send you some to try.


Would you be interested in selling some of those tail wads?
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[BigMrTong]

Yes, I have tried a few different designs, but this works the best.

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Are you 3D printing these?

[BigMrTong]

I think a lot of this tale wads improvements are in making the 1oz Lee slug nose heavy.
(Although two interesting notes. 1. This wads doesn't make much difference to the Lee 7/8oz at all, and 2. its not just the tail being there. I have printed about 10 different designs now, but non perform as well af the 4 finned version here)

Not a good picture, but a do find a small impression of the bottom of the fins in the wad.
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I find the wads seperate at about 20 meters with consistency. I always find them in a pile.

I have never managed to recover a slug from the butts. They have been too deep for a quick rummage and digging on the range is frowned upon. I have never found a Tail fin though, so they are going with the Slug. (no evidence of a tumble or separation on the paper targets either)

I think the factory wad is taking the cushion and then letting the fixed slug go. Seems to work well.



Your plastic tail wad is a much better idea as it adds drag and effectively makes the slug much more nose heavy. I like it.

Are you finding any damage to the bottom of the shotcup?

How do the plastic tail wads look on recovered slugs? Any distortion? What plastic are you using?

Most attached tailwads I've seen have stems or cushion sections just like a factory plastic wad and they seem to distort there. Your solid tailwad on the slug seems like a much better idea to me. Any cushion section that can distort is on the discarding factory wad.

Longbow

[BigMrTong]

I tired the CB1100 wads but had wild fliers and the wads weren't to clever on recovery. I think the Cushion is far to soft for the slug and recoil.

I have much more luck with the CB2118 as the cushion is very heavy. (I actually use a MEC replica)

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Lee 1 oz.
Rem 870
24 gr. Universal
Clay Buster CB1100-12
Win HS hull
The powder could go higher but the recoil is downright abusive.
upnorthwis

[gpidaho]

BigMrTong: The thought of printing wads has crossed my mind. I'm a somewhat less than tech savvy old man. Are the printers as seen on Ebay and Amazon in the under $200 range capable of printing the tail wads you've shown? Thanks Gp

[BigMrTong]

you can with a lot of fiddling and setup. You are better spending 350 to 450 at the moment on a better brand one.


BigMrTong: The thought of printing wads has crossed my mind. I'm a somewhat less than tech savvy old man. Are the printers as seen on Ebay and Amazon in the under $200 range capable of printing the tail wads you've shown? Thanks Gp

[dsh1106]

I tired the CB1100 wads but had wild fliers and the wads weren't to clever on recovery. I think the Cushion is far to soft for the slug and recoil.

I have much more luck with the CB2118 as the cushion is very heavy. (I actually use a MEC replica)

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Have you used the 12S3 ?? or are the clones better?

[BigMrTong]

I just can't get the real ones locally. However I have tried at least a couple of copies, and some were good and some bacd. The MEC were the best I could get.


Have you used the 12S3 ?? or are the clones better?

[Blood Trail]

If you have a printer, I can send you the model. If not, PM me your address and i'll send you some to try.



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Pm sent.


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[longbow]

BigMrTong:

Have you tried using a nitro card wad under the slug to prevent wad damage?

That damage you are getting may not be affecting accuracy but then again it may. If 1/8" nitro card wad is too thick try some polyethylene... I used an old Magic Carpet snow slider the kids had and that worked well under my 6 finned slugs. I just used a 3/4" gasket punch to punch out disks then put a couple under each slug. That saved the wads. I'd have to check thickness but I'll guess about 1mm but quite thin and tough. To use inside a shotcup you'd need about 9/16" gasket punch.

Longbow

[BigMrTong]

Got it .. will take a few days as I'm in the UK .. but on their way ...


Pm sent.


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[BigMrTong]

I have'nt no, but have thought about it.

The two reasons I didn't, The damage was small and the wads release cleanly and early, and I wanted as much of the available wad column for the fins as I could get.

BUT, I may as well give it a try ! Small changes to a slug load have a massive difference it seems sometimes.



BigMrTong:

Have you tried using a nitro card wad under the slug to prevent wad damage?

That damage you are getting may not be affecting accuracy but then again it may. If 1/8" nitro card wad is too thick try some polyethylene... I used an old Magic Carpet snow slider the kids had and that worked well under my 6 finned slugs. I just used a 3/4" gasket punch to punch out disks then put a couple under each slug. That saved the wads. I'd have to check thickness but I'll guess about 1mm but quite thin and tough. To use inside a shotcup you'd need about 9/16" gasket punch.

Longbow

[Grmps]

A 3-d printer is not in my foreseeable future. how long do they take to print and how much would you want a piece for them?

[longbow]

If you are short of room try just one polyethylene disk or other hard but flexible plastic. These are quite thin so don't take up a lot of room. If the wads don't have much damage it may not make a difference, but then it may and improve things a hair more.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

BigMrTong
What 3D printer are you using?

[BigMrTong]

BigMrTong
What 3D printer are you using?

Wanhao i3 Plus

[spoon]

Does anyone have feed back on BigMrTong's load? This looks interesting. Could we get the CAD on the fins?

[Agronomist_at_ia]

If you have a printer, I can send you the model. If not, PM me your address and i'll send you some to try.



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Do u have the 3D print files

[Agronomist_at_ia]

308478

Found this online.....Looks like the fin in the pic....it is free to get the print files off of thingiverse

[Agronomist_at_ia]

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Here are some pics of the fun printed and on top is a 1oz Lee key drive slug

[longbow]

I got the files from BigMrTong for his finned tailwad but my friend with the 3D printer never got around to printing any for me. Beggars can't be choosers!

I'll be interested in seeing a range report.

Longbow

[Agronomist_at_ia]

Do you have the print files for that tail? Would like to try a few different tails on the mold.

[longbow]

He posted them on Thingiverse here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3504961

A little different than the file you have but pretty similar. BigMrTong's fin base is for the 1 oz. Lee slug. The file you posted above is for the 7/8 oz. Lee slug.

Longbow

[Agronomist_at_ia]

Thanks that is what I was looking for.....I wonder why it has nothing to do with the lee key drive slug in the title.

[Agronomist_at_ia]

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Printed the tail for the 1oz does do a nice job.

[Agronomist_at_ia]

Have you guys used any of these slug wads? These are what I have been using. OEM wads are non existent. Clay busters are able to be found though.

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[W.R.Buchanan]

I use the blue wads for Lyman slugs Randy

[Agronomist_at_ia]

What size ball are you using in the wad?

[W.R.Buchanan]

That ball is .662 dia. and it measures .727 over the wad which is just a couple of thou below bore size. They shoot really close to POA out to 50-60 yards. Old Style AA hulls with 18 gr of Green Dot is the standard load. Claybuster AA clone wads.

The Lee 1 oz slug goes into the same wad with a .070 card under it.

The Lyman Slug gets the Blue Wad with a 1/8" card under it and the Slug Base filled with Hot Glue.

I load these on my DL266 up to the wad, then insert the Felt Cushion then Ball by hand and then fold crimp on the machine.

I shoot these thru an IC choke tube which is .720 so it grips the ball in the wad nicely. All of these slugs are done with a Fold Crimp, they don't work very well with a Roll Crimp.

Randy

[Soundguy]

these fit the lee drive key slugs 1oz 12g?

If you ever decide to sell these.. I'd definitely order some.

[longbow]

To expand on Randy's post...

Not actually sure what my 0.662" mould casts to but way too small for Winchester wads or any others I have tried. They are a loose rattle fit. I wound up cloth patching the 0.662" RB's to snug fit in a wad in the bore. 0.011" mic'd cotton shirt worked for that. These shot very well for me. Obviously you can vary cloith thickness to suit the wads you have and if petals are thick enough the bare ball will work fine.

0.662" RB's are a press fit into CDS wads which are steel shot wads with thick petals.

0.678" fits nicely in some standard trap wads.

0.690" RB's apparently fit into some trap wads and BPI has load data for them. I have not had success with these but others have and Lee 0.690" RB moulds are inexpensive if that is a consideration.

I always put at least one 1/8" 16 ga. or 20 ga. nitro card wad under the ball and usually toss a small scoop of COW on top, then seat the ball. The nitro card wad and COW help keep the bottom of the shotcup from distorting around the ball under pressure. Some wads may not require the support depending on cushion leg design. My Winchester wads fail badly without at least the nitro card wad. The felt wad Randy is using works for him, I have not tried that.

Properly loaded RB's can be quite accurate out to 50+ yards and are easy to cast and easy to load.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

these fit the lee drive key slugs 1oz 12g?

If you ever decide to sell these.. I'd definitely order some.

Buy what exactly? Randy

[Soundguy]

I was saying that if someone goes into production selling the slug inserts..they might be good to buy. Sounds like an interesting product.

[longbow]

The "rocket" fins are a good idea and seem to work. I suspect that 3D printing for commercial sales wouldn't be worth it but if someone set up injection moulding equipment then they could be cranked out in large numbers. The finned base might have to be glued in place or a burr put on the drive key to make sure the fins stay with the slugs.

I have made forms and cast hot melt glue tailwads onto Lee slugs and some of those came off in flight! I was surprised but the hot glue on cold slug doesn't bond well. The ones that I pulled out came out with little effort but were perfectly formed like an injection moulding. If the slugs were heated before pouring the glue then they bonded but alternately and easier is to just take a punch and give each rib a bop to put a burr on it, that gives the glue something to hold on to. I suspect 3D printed finned bases or injection moulded finned bases would require the same burr or something similar to make sure the finned bases stay attached.

I am still playing with the glue tailwads and they seem to be working quite well. I have another batch to test.

I would prefer to be able to make a tailwad like these finned bases though. I doubt I will be buying a 3D printer to get there though.

I suppose the Russian slugs that use a brush wad screwed to the base of a slug are as easy and use readily available wads. There is an appeal to using standard trap wads though and being able to sub slug for shot in factory rounds.

Maybe someone will take you up on that and start making finned bases. It is nice to have options.

Longbow