777 question

[toot]

can TRIPPLE 7 substitute black powder be used as a barrel charge and a priming pan charge in a flint lock, will it ignite/ fire, work? or do you have to use 10 grains of 4 FG under it in the primary barrel charge and prime with 4 FG priming powder?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

You'd have to use a black powder booster charge. If you can get 4f, you may as well get some 2 or 3fg while you are at it.

[toot]

FRONTIER MUZZLELOADIN, I understand what you are saying. I always shoot BLACK in my weapons, but I had 3 LBS. of 3FG. TRIPPLE 7 fall into my lap and i want to shoot it in my BROWN BESS MUSKET , and the clean up time i have been told is faster than BLACK is. also will it work as a priming in my pan? thanks for the help.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

No it will not work in the pan.

Take a match and light off a little pile. You will see that you have to hold the match there for a few seconds before it goes poof.

[mooman76]

Frontier is correct. It my light by a fluke but would be very unreliable. You could also use 3f black in the pan and as a booster for 777.

[toot]

thank's guys I think you have answered all of my queries! I will regulate the TRIPPLE 7 to my cap locks!. good idea ? what say you?

[725]

777 is hard to light but when it goes, OH MY. It's energetic. Above is good advice.

[Tatume]

Triple Seven is approximately equal to black powder when measured by volume. It is less dense than black powder, so if measured by weight it will produce more pressure than the same weight of black powder. This is why Hodgdon instructs users to measure by volume.

If it is desired to measure by weight, then several charges should be measured by volume and then weighed. Use this weight. For example, the last batch FFFg Triple Seven I checked was 86% the density of FFFg Diamond Back black powder. In other words, a charge thrown from a 100 grain volumetric measure weighed 86 grains. In still other words, 100 grains of Diamond Back by weight produced the same velocity as 86 grains of Triple Seven, measured by weight.

If the measurement of Triple Seven is adjusted correctly, it is approximately equally energetic to black powder.

[Rick Hodges]

I use a lot of 777 in inlines. I measure it by volume just like I do Goex Black Powder and find it is more energetic. For example....in my TC Scout carbine in .54 caliber a load of 80gr. of Goex 3f behind a 310 gr. projectile gives an average velocity of 1400 fps. The same rifle, cap, projectile with 80 gr. of 777 gives 1580 fps.

I have had no trouble igniting it in the straight line Scout with #11 percussion caps down to sub zero temperatures. Some have reported the need for shotgun style primers. I should also point out the loose powder is more energetic than the pellets. 120gr. giving similar velocities as 3 50gr. pellets.

It might just be my rifles, but it pays to experiment. 777 also gives more velocity for similar charges than Pyrodex.

[stubshaft]

I've used in in my rocklocks bit I have to use a booster charge of 15grs. in the barrel and prime with 4F or 3F in the pan.

[toot]

stubshaft, that is the info. that i was looking for on shooting 777 in my rocklock. what is the 15 grs. booster charge,? 4fg. and is the ignition time the same as straight black?

[arcticap]

I try to limit the use of 777 to smaller calibers like the .36 that use smaller powder charges which creates less powder fouling.
The 777 residue tends to get a little more sticky inside the bore compared to some other powders, and can create sort of a crud ring in the breech,
and I like to avoid swabbing.
It also seems to produce more felt recoil than other powders.
It's not an equivalent for FFg, so reduce the loads by 10-15%.
The more powder loaded, the more of a crud ring will form.
It's one of the sub powders that's not recommended for flintlocks/sidelocks by some of the manufacturers like Traditions in their loading manuals.
Not sure why, maybe they're afraid that people will accidentally load double charges of it.
It's also recommended to not compress 777 too much during ramming, not as much as a person probably would if using Pyrodex.
For best results, a little bit of compression is okay but not a lot.

[charlie b]

I tried 777 in my Lyman GPH. It resulted in several hangfires and a bad crud ring. Went back to Pyrodex.

[stubshaft]

I usually use 3F for the booster and 4F in the pan.

[toot]

stubshaft, do you cut back 10 percent on the barrel charge be cause of 777 being more powerful than black?

[stubshaft]

I usually start with 1gr. per caliber, so 50 cal. = 50 grs. TOTAL (15 booster + 35 T7 3F). For 32's I use BP and 36's through 45 (15 + 15 T7 3F).

Since my starting loads are reduced I don't really cut back the T7.

[indian joe]

I usually start with 1gr. per caliber, so 50 cal. = 50 grs. TOTAL (15 booster + 35 T7 3F). For 32's I use BP and 36's through 45 (15 + 15 T7 3F).

Since my starting loads are reduced I don't really cut back the T7.

So priming charge+ booster charge + plus main charge - seems a lot of trouble - whats the benefit ??????? (cost? cleaner? accurracy?)

[stubshaft]

The benefit is that I can shoot my rockers since real black powder is extremely hard to get. Most of the powder companies will NOT ship to Hawaii.

[indian joe]

The benefit is that I can shoot my rockers since real black powder is extremely hard to get. Most of the powder companies will NOT ship to Hawaii.

that makes sense - I shoulda checked my map - thought your "southernmost state" meant Florida ---- couple other options - is there a fireworks manufacturer on the island might get a 25lb bag of 5FA that way --Or --- if ya live outa town you could make it ? -- all the instructions you ever need are right on this forum just a couple clicks away.

[OverMax]

I've never heard of anyone measuring a duplexed B/P charging in a flintlock long gun. That's a first for me.

[rodwha]

The compression issues were just for loading cartridges for whatever reason. Everything else it said to compress it firmly. I asked them what “firmly” was but was given no response. I’m guessing it’s the crimping of cartridges that adds to the pressures created. They’ve since taken down all of their loading instructions concerning compression and reduction of loads, which weren’t for safety, but were to give a similar velocity as the standard (crappy) typical black powders available then.

[indian joe]

I've never heard of anyone measuring a duplexed B/P charging in a flintlock long gun. That's a first for me.

It would be a pain in the butt ----but I can see what hes doin, and why -- ration your scarcest resource is never a bad idea -