Sabot for 308 Shoots 223

[BlackoutBuilder]

A buddy of mine just sent me this, it takes a 223, and shoots it out of a .30 Does anyone have experience with these?

https://www.eabco.net/Sabot-Loaders-Starter-Kit_p_13302.html

[Bazoo]

Remington loaded them as the 22 accelerator.

[Reverend Al]

It was a novel idea that was marketed by Remington as "Accelerators" in .30-30, .308, and .30-06, but there is at least one company selling the .30 to .22 sabots to duplicate the idea in any .30 calibre cartridge you want to load them in. Don't expect stellar accuracy though ... they didn't generally shoot all that well.

[Bills Shed]

We gave them a run several years ago. Accuracy was not good. Not going down that route again.

Bill

[BlackoutBuilder]

Thanks. Just wondering. What about pressure and powder charges? I'm running H-4895 @ 41.5 grains behind 168 gr. SMK in the .308, but I'm not sure where to begin with something like this.

[ReloaderFred]

Been there, done that, with terrible accuracy. I had 1,000 of the sabots and finally ended up giving them away years ago to end my frustration at trying to hit something with them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[BlackoutBuilder]

It does. saved me a couple bucks. Thanks guys.

[M.A.D]

Through my Fullbore Target rifle, These things shot an awesome 5 shot group of around 4 inches at 100 meters.. I wouldnt even bother..... A cheap 222 will do much better...

[wmitty]

I bought a box of .30-06 Accelerator s just out of curiosity and the factory bullets shot about 1.5 moa. I used an inertia puller and checked the bullets - they were flatbase with an unusually sharp radius. I replaced a few factory bullets with some flat base Hornady s 55 grain and shot a group slightly larger than the factory rounds. I did notice the powder used looked a whole lot like imr 4227. I was hoping Remington would release the sabots/ powder as reloading components but they seemed to think the idea was not profitable or unsuitable for public consumption.

[41magjh]

If my memory is right the LEO appeal to the company's say they were cop killers because they would not leave rifling marks on the bullet therefore they could not trace it to any rifle. I had a box of the 3030 in the early 80s don't even know what happen to them.

[BlackoutBuilder]

Shotguns?

[gpidaho]

BlackoutBuilder; As you know 4895 can be down loaded to 50% density. You might give that a try or I would just load a few over a small charge of TiteGroup. They don't seem to shoot too well anyway so plinking a few rounds for fun with about 6 or 8gr. of TiteGroup wouldn't cost much but time. Gp

[Bmi48219]

Back in 1982 we tried the Remington 30-30 Accelerator rounds in a pretty sloppy Post 64 Winchester model 94. Best 100 yd group (prone over iron sights) was 1 & 1/2 inch for 5 rounds. Worst was twice as big. Pretty sure I still have a box of them laying around somewhere.
I've been toying with the idea of loading sabot projectiles in a 30 carbine. But the load data put out by EABCO doesn't show any dramatic increase in velocity over standard 30 carbine ammo.

[Reverend Al]

If you get a bout of temporary insanity and decide to pursue this have a look on the website of that company that is selling the .30 / .22 sabots. They have some loading table charts that you can print off. I did ... I still have a handful of these sabots that I was gifted about 30 years ago. I guess I should use them sometime just to shoot them up and get them off my bullet storage shelf ...


Thanks. Just wondering. What about pressure and powder charges? I'm running H-4895 @ 41.5 grains behind 168 gr. SMK in the .308, but I'm not sure where to begin with something like this.

[Reverend Al]

Here is the link for the reloading data on another .30 to .22 sabot website ...

http://www.jdcomponents.com/loadinfo/loadinfo.html

[am44mag]

I have played around with using sabots in my 30-06 before. I used 55gr bullets, and the velocity was incredible. The recoil was also light, and I got decent accuracy. I don't remember the charge I used but I used IMR 4320 for the powder.

From what I've heard, people have used these for pest control, and there wasn't much pest left to find after they were hit.

[trapper9260]

here is a site that might help http://www.ammo-one.com/SABOT.html

[Hueyville]

Have done a lot of sabot loading for 308 to 224 and 12 gauge to 50 caliber for decades. These are my newest creation using 308 cases, H322, 30 caliber sabot and the new dot mil M855A1 projectiles. Call them "308 Slap Yo Momma" rounds. They are based of over a decade of work with M855 Green Tip military projectiles.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2qdzgxs.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/64fo6h.jpg

The new 62 grain projectiles were designed by the military to both punch Level 3 rifle armor out to about 80 yards in 5.56 and still fracture and create massive trauma in enemy combatants without armor. I load them in 22 Nosler to about 3,300 fps which lives them up to punch Level 4 to about 40 or 50 yards and Level 3 out to 175 yards. In 308 can run them at ludicrous speed but have learned if push past 4,000 fps for every 100 fps added your group size doubles. At just shy of 4,000 fps, so close the faster ones across chronograph where standard deviation high end passes 4,000 but average speed is about 3,990 fps they shoot two MOA from a decent 1:10 M1a which is same accuracy as a good FN FAL with Lake City M80 ball.

Keep at box with 2,000 M855's in specialty ammo locker and have 500 M855A1's in same locker. The new bullet is hard to get and expensive when you find them so keep a few hundred in 22 Nosler for the one 22 Nosler I built as a close clone to a Mk 12 Mod 1 with binary trigger for an extended distance AR 15 size and weight fighting rifle opposed to my 20" 22 Nosler varmint rifles. Shame the 22 CHeetah doesn't usually like bullets heavier than 53 grains or would be sending these projectiles with it as well as my 22-250's and 22-250 Ackley's.

Shooting sabots frustrate a lot of people but if you are willing to try a lot of projectiles and powders as you shoot your ladder tests will occasionally find a node that settles down into a nice shooting load and is quick. Biggest mistake is to try and run maximum velocity a bullet weight in a particular cartridge will run as as speed increases past your best groups accuracy drop off is exponential. Have a really nice load for 90 grain Berger VLD's in 300 Win Mag using sabots. While a 300 Win Mag can occasionally find a good load using 125 grain 30 caliber bullets in the 3,400 to 3,500 fps range have a sabot load using the 90 grain Berger that chronographs at 4,250 through a long slow twist barrel that shoot 1.25 MOA at 100 and 200 then open up as go through 300 and are at 2 MOA by 500 yards but still running flat and fast.

The Berger VLD's have been known for blowing up between 3,350 fps and 3,500 fps but they have been working on that issue for all the hotter wildcats running around but with sabots the rifling is not engraving the bullet and cutting or stressing the bullet jacket nearly as bad. Still can't go crazy as will spin drift or blow up if push too fast but at 4,400 fps from right twist and using a powder the combination likes they will float for a long time before begin to wander off course. Have tried the 62 grain M855 and M855A1 in 300 Win Mag with no luck. It's much easier to find a 308 AP round to load in the 300 to bust holes in hard items.

Remember you want 90% or better case fill, don't max out just because your computer model says can push a given bullet at 5,000 fps or faster, shoot lots of ladders with lots of projectiles to find a happy node you can tweak. Patience and lots of trial and error will learn trends the more you use them which will have you knowing what to avoid trying out of the gate and projectiles that should work based on others have seen do well. I am always looking for that combination that shoots 1 MOA and gives me 100 more fps than previous best load. If get another 50 fps and 1/4 MOA better groups take it for the moment and wait for another combination to try. Wish I could get a boat load of the aluminum and copper sabots dot gov has used in the past. Think they Wil shoot faster with less issues of the plastic/polymers in plastic and sloped glass. I suggest if your interested buy a 500 count bag as 100 count just gets you to point of frustration and giving up.

[Willbird]

Kind of wondering if the typical 30 caliber 1/10 twist is part of some of the issues....1/10 at 4,000 fps may make them very dizzy :-).

With the Remington Accelerators to me it always looked as if magazine tests ended up with about the same accuracy as the test rifle would typically exhibit with 30 caliber ammo.

Bill

[JSnover]

Now that we have a few more bullets to choose from I may shoot the rest of my sabots up. They didn't impress me out of an ' 06 back in the 90s.

[M.A.D]

Do you have any photos or specifications on these aluminum and copper sabots dot gov has used in the past.?

[Hueyville]

Here is some USGI SLAP

http://i65.tinypic.com/24mb8dy.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/1zd19n8.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/11c8sn9.jpg

Some other sabot designs from around the globe, won't bore y'all with hundreds of pics but a few decent.

http://i66.tinypic.com/fm5cfm.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a7zcko.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/23ly5ur.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/256wvup.jpg

In the past I have used bullets to make sabots. One project that worked decently was using 180 grain JSP 357 pistol bullets, chucking in fixture made for drill press or mill and properly center a 0.307" and 0.257" holes that terminated with about 0.100" of lead still in bottom of jacket then use arbor press and seating punches to press in various 308, Barnes copper solids, 7.62 AP, 25 caliber mix of bullets including copper solids. Work up loads very carefully and play with bore size in pistol bullet so releases from sub caliber projectile when leaves bore but the two hold without rifle bullet slipping in hogged out pistol bullet then launch from 350 Rem Mag.

Have used 338 bullets to form sabots and load 257, 243 and 6mm projectiles from 338 Federal and 338 Lapua. This gets expensive. Have used cast gas check pistol bullets to seat 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" end mills in. A 44 magnum gas check pistol bullet with a 3/16" carbide end mill embedded is a nasty little toy. Done this with 9mm, 38, 357, 44, 45 and 454 Casull.

Believe there are some polymers that would make better sabots than can commonly buy now. I can buy commercially made AP ammo now in 7.62 that uses brass sabots to launch a hardened penetrator but am testing them against barriers am building for teller lines, corporate offices and now churches. Especially the children's care areas. Have found several companies making military and police only saboted ammo to deliver hardened penetrators but even as an armor contractor few will sell ammo to me and none will sell just their sabots. Thus still play with what's easiest to get.

As stated, my general rule is to use 30 caliber sabots for 224 bullets but have some rules to make it successful. I do have a 1:9 twist, 1:10, 1:11 and 1:12 twist rifles for testing. Use slow/medium powders, keep case fill at 90% to lightly compressed. Also keep velocities between 3,500 and maximum of 4,300 fps. Past 4,000 fps things get loopy and have exceeded 5,000 fps by a large number in past but had dangerous projectiles flying on odd paths lime angry bees.you can put together a 5,000 fps load for 25 yard accuracy but will go crazy by 50 to 75 yards based on how hard you push. Can try using light glue to keep bullets from slipping in sabots while in bore but sabot still separate after leaves muzzle. Have glued them in so well sabot rode to 100 yards which really got odd flight plans. Be careful and have fun.

[GRUMPA]

Made those decades ago. Found out the hard way accuracy improved dramatically when you got the air out. There is such a tight fit when the 22cal boolit is pressed into the sabot that air gets traped between the boolit and sabot. After that issue was solved accuracy got a lot better, still not a tack driver, just better...

[NathanHoln]

I'm new here, so I am just wondering "why."

[Guns N Glory]

Sometimes it's fun to know stuff. Practically speaking however, knowledge learned in place A, is often applicable to place B, C, J, or Z.

[Guns N Glory]

I never thought of any of my reloading as offensive or combative, other than some SHTF ammo.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Some would view handloaded defensive ammo as "Offensive", consider the source though, on that :)

[Guns N Glory]

sheesh

[pacomdiver]

i have a bag of those brown clear sabots in the pic of the 3 rounds, they have m855s in them, tried a couple loads in 308, they didnt show promise, so i gave up

[NathanHoln]

Sometimes it's fun to know stuff. Practically speaking however, knowledge learned in place A, is often applicable to place B, C, J, or Z.


it lets you do things you normally don't want to do, that's WHY

That's fair, I am a strong advocate of doing stuff just because and seeing what happens, I was mainly wondering if there was some sort of advantage to putting a 22cal bullet through a 30cal bore that wouldn't be achieved with a 223 or 308.

[Guns N Glory]

Not really. Im guessing it was a way to develop a new style AP rounds for the common defense.

[ReloaderFred]

When Remington first introduced their sabot rounds in .30-06, they touted it as being able to use your deer rifle as a varmint rifle. That was the first commercial production of sabot rounds, as I remember.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[JSnover]

I tried them back in the 90s. Accuracy wasn't there beyond 50 yards.

[Guns N Glory]

When Remington first introduced their sabot rounds in .30-06, they touted it as being able to use your deer rifle as a varmint rifle. That was the first commercial production of sabot rounds, as I remember.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Nice. Thanks. I would have been marketing a new rifle, not a new bullet.

[NathanHoln]

When Remington first introduced their sabot rounds in .30-06, they touted it as being able to use your deer rifle as a varmint rifle. That was the first commercial production of sabot rounds, as I remember.

Hope this helps.

Fred

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[swheeler]

When Remington first introduced their sabot rounds in .30-06, they touted it as being able to use your deer rifle as a varmint rifle. That was the first commercial production of sabot rounds, as I remember.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Remington Accelerators available in 308, 30-06 and 30-30 so you could shoot gophers in the Spring using your favorite hunting rifle.

[Pioneer2]

Cat hunters here in Alberta would use them on treed cougars as the range was short and it wouldn't tear up the hide.Mostly in 30-30