230 grain in 30-06 looking for advice for a moose hunt

[Nomad666]

I have 234 grain powder coated and gas checked cast boolits for my 30-06 at 2000 FPS I would like to use this on a moose hunt bigger is better right but cant decide if I should shoot for the shoulder and get one down on the ground right away with a later kill shot or do the standered bread basket shot what do you think I should go for?
I am also bit concerned as it is a very pointy boolit and that it will just drill through with no expansion is that a concern with cast boolits at all or am I just fussing about it for no reason?

223617

[Beerd]

if you cast those yourself you might consider doing a Bruceb soft point.
..

[Nomad666]

Thanks yes that is interesting info!

The ones In this batch shown above are pretty soft they are not water hardened in any way I still have no idea if they will expand or not though.
I have not tested them out on milk jugs or wet newspaper yet.
I have been looking at maybe doing a hollow point on them just need the jig to do it.
Would rather just leave them as is though just less trouble/work.

[nagantguy]

Welcome; nice looking boolit and as a very famous Marine once said the 30-06 is never a bad choice! Shoulder shot is always a good idea on large game; put one of those where it needs to go and then the work begins; will you have any chance to shoot another critter or at least some heavy beef bones before your hunt? Even a pig “hunt” at one of those fenced in places would tell the tale on expansion and penetration. Talk to a local butcher shop maybe you could get a beef head or shoulder; that’s where I got mine; an actual slaughter house mind you not your local grocery.

[BigMagShooter]

aim for bone first
break them down so they don't go far, use finishing shots as needed.

[Tom W.]

I never shot a moose, but 90% of the deer I shot were hit in the middle of the shoulder, and seldom went very far if anywhere. Granted, moose is a tad bigger than a whitetail, but the principal is the same.

[Walks]

I don't know the circumstances surrounding your hunt.
Where you are going to hunt & where you're coming from, and how much time & money you have invested in your hunt.
I love cast bullets. Been casting & shooting all my Life. Ran miles behind a dog pack chasing a Cougar, killed with a LYMAN#358156 over a hefty charge of 2400. Ran behind another dog pack and killed decent Black Bear with a LYMAN 44MAG Bullet over another hefty charge of 2400. But this was in the late 1960's. We have not been able to hunt with lead in CA for about 50yrs, Jacketed only. Now NO LEAD AT ALL.

But on my 2 ELK Hunts, and various trips to WY for Pronghorn, and MT for Mule Deer.
I would never had considered CAST LEAD BULLETS, for Any of those HUNTS. It's one thing to shoot a Cat or a Bear out of a tree when you're standing under it.

It's a completely different to shoot a 2000 lb MOOSE. I really believe you owe it to they game to use the BEST AVAILABLE Bullet for the cleanest possible KILL.
And that is one of the PREMIUM BULLETS by NOSLER, HORNADY or BARNES. Think of your wallet too.
Ethical Hunting. I just don't think a .30cal slug, even if It's a thru & thru is the BEST choice. There is no such thing as a guaranteed shot.

[Nomad666]

I have proven factory ammo along with me also but the first shot I would like to try a cast bullet their will be others with me so if they don't like what they see their will be another 3 shots in very short order nothing will be left to chance...

They are very interested in seeing what a cast bullet will do too as they to are interested in starting to cast bullets for themselves I guess i'm the guinea pig of the group.

The hunt will be in northern BC and not my first hunt for moose but this hunt has been in the plan for the last year with upgrading equipment and gear for all in the group this year. This is strictly a meat hunt for all of us. And their is a small chance of caribou as well in the area so one would be a bonus.
We will have a couple of walk in coolers on the trailers as this is an Aug hunt and can be a warm at times.

I can too see that we here will have to be lead free in the near future too and I am sure the community will find another alloy that we will be able to work with so am not to worried about it. I think some are already going that way.

[Nomad666]

Welcome; nice looking boolit and as a very famous Marine once said the 30-06 is never a bad choice! Shoulder shot is always a good idea on large game; put one of those where it needs to go and then the work begins; will you have any chance to shoot another critter or at least some heavy beef bones before your hunt? Even a pig “hunt” at one of those fenced in places would tell the tale on expansion and penetration. Talk to a local butcher shop maybe you could get a beef head or shoulder; that’s where I got mine; an actual slaughter house mind you not your local grocery.

I have done allot of reading over the last year on the use of the 30-06 in Africa and how well it did over their although its not allowed now for what they call dangerous game but back in the day it was the caliber of choice for many big game hunters and that they were shooting boolits up to 250 grains out of the 30-06 that just amazed me as I thought 220 grain was the biggest how mistaken I was and am looking for a 250 grain boolit mold now.
The 30-06 sure is a versatile caliber for sure I have had magnums but never liked em and always went back to the 30-06 and I am now sticking with it till my end of days.

Shoulder shot sounds like what I will go with as it seems to be the consensus here.

I will take what ever words of wisdom anyone has for my cast boolit moose hunt..

[Tripplebeards]

Never shot a moose but from all the tv shows I watch I don't think they will go a country mile with a marginal shot or clear three football fields in three seconds flat like a deer. They are like a extremely tall cow with antlers. If it were my hunt I would try and look for the heaviest boolit with more of a flat met plate and aim for the shoulder. Moose are a pretty wide animal so I would want a heavy, heavy, boolit to travel as far as it could through the animal and to possibly get an exit for two bleeder holes if tracking is needed. I'm guessing a you'd want a little harder than normal alloy to hold together and to make sure it drives all the way through the animal. I think its possible to get pretty close to most moose so I'm guessing shots will be close. I walked within 15 yards of one in Canada while bear hunting. It couldn't have cared less if I was there. If i were using a jacket bullet I'd go with the 200 gr nosler partitions. I harvested my last black bear with one out of my 300 RUM. A 180 grainers would work great in an 06'.

My cousin has harvested three now. At $8G a hunt he pays there are a lot more things I feel are a better investment. As soon as I can find an affordable hunt I'm in. Sounds like a great hunt! Wish I could tag along with my 450 bushmaster and my Lee 300gr fn boolit and 35.5gr h110 load!!!

[Hamish]

I'm not a fan of shooting anything other than paper with pointy cast. I prefer a higher BHN with a big fat flat nose, but you can't argue with a good heavy with a hollow point, especially if it's a Bruce B style HP.

Going with a heavy for caliber is always a laudable idea.

Look at the 31-245H, BUT, the longer it gets, sooner or later it's going to start putting the GC below the neck,,,,,,.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=3

[jdb3]

I have shot several moose; used 06 with 180 grain (worked wonderfully), 338 Win Mag 250 grain (again worked just like you would think), 50-90 Sharps 500 grain soft cast (killed like thunder-hammer of Thor), 338 Marlin Express 200 grain "Gummy Bear" (worked very well, I could hunt rest of my life with this rifle). Really couldn't tell much difference except for the Sharps. If I were using the 06 I'd go with a well built 180 grain bullet and never look back. Jim

[Nomad666]

I'm not a fan of shooting anything other than paper with pointy cast. I prefer a higher BHN with a big fat flat nose, but you can't argue with a good heavy with a hollow point, especially if it's a Bruce B style HP.

Going with a heavy for caliber is always a laudable idea.

Look at the 31-245H, BUT, the longer it gets, sooner or later it's going to start putting the GC below the neck,,,,,,.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=3

Thanks for the link!
The one that caught my eye was the 31-250E made for powder coat I could go for this one!

[mart]

One thing you might consider is that since you're powder coating and gas checking your bullets you can get by with a somewhat softer alloy (not dead soft) than one would normally use in a 30-06. A softer alloy is going to equate to better expansion. You would want to do some testing ahead of time but a BHN of 11-12 with that powder coated bullet and 30-06 velocity may be a good combination. I would prefer more meplat but testing in an expansion medium will give you a better idea how that bullet may perform.

It's never a bad idea to put a shoulder in the shot. Moose are not particularly hard to kill but they sometimes don't realize that. The situation you want to avoid is having one wander into the water before expiring. Breaking one or both shoulders slows them down considerably. Good luck.

[RKJ]

I was looking at your original bullet and wondering if you filed it flatter how would it fly,but then looked at that Accurate one you were looking at. That one looks awesome and would be the one I'd take with me. Good luck, hoping you get a monster (right by the trail, so you won't have to pack too far) But I'd say the chances of that happening are pretty slim. :)

[Moonie]

I would suggest a flat pointed boolit rather than trying to fix a pointed one. I really like the "bison" boolit by either NOE or Accurate Molds. I have the Accurate Molds version that is 245gr and gas checked.

[Nomad666]

One thing you might consider is that since you're powder coating and gas checking your bullets you can get by with a somewhat softer alloy (not dead soft) than one would normally use in a 30-06. A softer alloy is going to equate to better expansion. You would want to do some testing ahead of time but a BHN of 11-12 with that powder coated bullet and 30-06 velocity may be a good combination. I would prefer more meplat but testing in an expansion medium will give you a better idea how that bullet may perform.

It's never a bad idea to put a shoulder in the shot. Moose are not particularly hard to kill but they sometimes don't realize that. The situation you want to avoid is having one wander into the water before expiring. Breaking one or both shoulders slows them down considerably. Good luck.

I think I am in the ball park of BHN 11-12 as this batch dropped em pretty heavy out of the mold at 234 grain the next block of lead I melted down dropped em at 226 grains I did not load any of them yet!

Since we will be right by the water on this hunt that is exactly what I want to avoid is them running in the lake I think that would just make for a hole lot of extra work the shoulder shoot is sounding better all the time...

[Nomad666]

I would suggest a flat pointed boolit rather than trying to fix a pointed one. I really like the "bison" boolit by either NOE or Accurate Molds. I have the Accurate Molds version that is 245gr and gas checked.

I too think a flat top is what I will eventually get that 250gr Accurate Mold looks like what I am after now that I am powder coating.

For this hunt I will give what I have a try always interested in outcomes good or bad they are all learning experiences for me.

[Moonie]

In the past I've used this boolit in a 30-06 with 35gr of H4895 @1,950fps and was accurate. I no longer have that rifle but have recently aquired a 300 Win Mag and will work on a load for it using this boolit.

[Nomad666]

have you hunted with this boolit Moonie if so did you get anything with it and did it work for you?

[Goshawk]

223703 Just to give you an idea of expansion of cast bullet. 35 cal. 220 grain.Details in pic.

[Nomad666]

Very nice Goshawk I am already jealous them flat tops do very well for expansion I need to get out and test mine to see how they do.

[Tripplebeards]

223703 Just to give you an idea of expansion of cast bullet. 35 cal. 220 grain.Details in pic.

looks like there isn't much difference in mushroom diameter and weight retention between your two alloys.

[Friends call me Pac]

I have only killed one moose in my life and that was with a bow and arrow. It was the Alaskan variety up in Fairbanks. I'm betting your lead bullet is at least as good at killing a moose as my arrow was. You put it through the lungs and I'm sure you will be fine.

[dk17hmr]

I'm in the the flatter nose camp. We have the smallest of the moose family here in Wyoming, they are still pretty big when they are 30 yards away, I'm guessing a hit anywhere that won't put it down on the spot they are going to find a nasty place to lay down and die.

[MT Gianni]

My experience with Shiras Moose tells me they are moving after they are dead, their brain just hasn't got the message yet. My concerns with the bullet shown are that too hard an alloy may explode on the shoulder blade leaving no penetration, too soft may mushroom there. Best shot would be to break the bone just under the shoulder but it is difficult to do. I would experiment with alloys and go for one that stays together. See if a slaughterhouse will let go of some fresh bones of an old bull.

[Nomad666]

OK got to the range finally and it was not the most accurate and was at least a foot pattern at 100 yards if not more at times but then I just reloaded with the lee classic and I did allot of things wrong when loading that I will fix for the next time I reload with this boolit. I only used one 43 grain IMR4350 powder charge in all boolits this go round. This was a learning experience for me and understand that I can do better next time reloading.

use all the same cases and weigh to see they are the same as best I can
anel case necks
make sure all cases are same length
sort boolits by weight and length and reject any with defects
use my new press and dies and do full length sizing
I will expand on loads in stages from 43 min to 47.7 max in .5 stages
weigh each finished loaded rounds to see if they match

So is their something I missed above that I should also be trying to do?

One thing I did notice when cleaning the barrel was that it really was not very dirty after 50 rounds I ran the brush and lubed patch through anyways but honestly it really did not need to be done. I do think powder coated and gas checked bullets are the way to go for me just have to get consistent in my reloading setup.

[Moonie]

Not many have had much luck with accuracy and the 230gr Lee 30 caliber mold, including me.

[Tripplebeards]

OK got to the range finally and it was not the most accurate and was at least a foot pattern at 100 yards if not more at times but then I just reloaded with the lee classic and I did allot of things wrong when loading that I will fix for the next time I reload with this boolit. I only used one 43 grain IMR4350 powder charge in all boolits this go round. This was a learning experience for me and understand that I can do better next time reloading.

use all the same cases and weigh to see they are the same as best I can
anel case necks
make sure all cases are same length
sort boolits by weight and length and reject any with defects
use my new press and dies and do full length sizing
I will expand on loads in stages from 43 min to 47.7 max in .5 stages
weigh each finished loaded rounds to see if they match

So is their something I missed above that I should also be trying to do?

One thing I did notice when cleaning the barrel was that it really was not very dirty after 50 rounds I ran the brush and lubed patch through anyways but honestly it really did not need to be done. I do think powder coated and gas checked bullets are the way to go for me just have to get consistent in my reloading setup.

Did you slug the bore? If your boolits are a 1/1000's go 2 or 3 thousands over bore diameter.

In the short time I've been casting I can tell you that you definitely just can't pick a powder grain and charge and expect tight grouping. Cast is definitely not like j words where if you just pick a powder like you did and shoot you would shoot at worse 2-2 1/2 groups. I'd tell you to try two different powders and work then up and down. I've powder ladder tested two different rifles so far and have had the worst groups being 6-7" and then the best being sub to 1.24". Seems to me cast is a lot more finicky and likes a specific velocity per how hard or soft your alloy is.

Is the gun proven? What I mean have you shot MOA or smaller groups with jacket bullets with this rifle? The reason I asked is I just went through this with one of my rifles. The best group I could get with cast was 2" at a 100 yards. I then glass bedded the action, lightened the trigger, and installed a better quality, higher powered optic. It shot a 1.24" group with the same load afterwards and shot sub MOA with a different cast boolit load (.8").

No offense intended but all the things you said you should have been doing are not things I would have never done to begin with. That's the whole reason of reloading...Consistently so your more accurate.

I would also take into consideration the above post about the boolit your tring to use is not accurate and a lot of posters said they would not use it and to find a flat me plate boolit.

I'd spend another $20 on a different Lee mold at the least and start over. Research and find out what 30 cal boolits are accurate in your caliber and buy that mold.

At least it was a learning experience for you. It will be rewarding once you find the right boolit/ load combo. Good luck on your journey.

[MT Chambers]

I'd use the heaviest cast FLAT POINT you can find that is accurate and stable, I have shot big moose with cast boolits and like the heavier cals. like .35 and up to the 45/70 and 50/90. I find that the bigger the bore, the softer you can cast the bullet and get good expansion and penetration. With your '06 you will need to use a harder cast boolit and limit shots to 150 yds. or so.

[trapper9260]

I do not know if this might help.Some years ago my brother and I was to do up a steer and I had my Rem 7600 30-06 with me just in case there was a problem with the steer and had my 44mag RH. The halter broke and the steer start to have a mind of its own.I was not far from it but I use a 210grs cast that is from Lyman mold and had cast that boolit years ago, it drop in its tracks and could not find the boolit till one of my coydogs was chew on the bone of the neck. My brother seen the boolit in the bone and pull it from the boy and told me about it and then I took the boolt out of the bone and there was not much left to it, hope this will help for what drop a over 1,200lb steer .

[trapper9260]

I forgot to state also there was a farmer that had a beef cow to take down but wanted to try to save the calf that was not born and ask me about if I could help him to try to save the calf.So I use the same 2 guns i stated in my other post and shot the cow in the shoulder and I was about 50 yrds away from it and use the same booilt I stated also before and the cow drop and then I finish it off with the 44mag and we open the cow and got the calf.it was alive at the time but found out 2 to 3 days later it died.The farmer said that was the first time he had done this and had the calf alive.He was happy with just that.but felt bad it did not stay alive. The 210grs boolit is the biggest boolit I have for 30cal.So it works for all I will use it for. hope this will help also for what you looking to use.