Accuracy isnt king for me.

[Bazoo]

I dont care much about accuracy, at least in the sense of making small groups from a bench. I really only care about hunting accuracy, and shooting from field positions, mostly offhand. I normally load to duplicate factory power and as long as I get factory accuracy im pretty content.

I reload mostly for the economy, but also self sufficiency and the hobby factor comes into play. Most of the guns I am interested in, are either handguns or short range rifles. Rifles like my winchester 94 30-30.

I do have some interest in getting a bolt action rifle with a scope, but I normally dont like such. However, I digress, when I get a scope sighted bolt gun I would be happy with less than 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards considering i'd never shoot past 350 yards, and rarely if ever that distance. And I wouldnt worry any if I averaged 2" groups for that matter.

I dont hardly ever shoot from a bench. If I shoot for accuracy, I go prone as I dont have a bench. I generally shoot seated, off my knees and standing for both practice and fun. With a rifle, I can easily hit an empty shotgun shell at 25 yards with my 22 rifle offhand. And can get between 4" and 6" on a normal day with a handgun at the same distance. On a good day, I can hit a 2" target at 25 yards with a handgun, provided the sights are suitable and the gun will do it. My moms single six will do it, when I can. I've done a lot of practicing, dry firing and shooting over the years to get that good. While most folks caint hit the broad side of a barn offhand, I know an expert can put me to shame.

So I figure... if either factory ammo or my reloads can do better than I can from the shooting positions I normally use, why worry about getting smaller groups from the bench.

Is there anyone else that prefers practical field shooting opposed to the bench bound accuracy game? Is it just me? Am I nuts?

Bazoo

Added; In my original post, I think folks got the impression I didnt test my loads for accuracy... not so. I just dont chase the accuracy. If I work up the powder charge in 5 steps, and the 3rd step gives me the best accuracy, then I generally go with that one. If that is 2" at 100 yards and thats in line with or better than factory im pretty content with it.

[Omega]

I like to hit stuff, but I like to get my 100yd groups to at least 1", with 2" being max. I mostly shoot supported, be it against a tree, my arm, knee, log, window sill, shooting sticks etc. But when I zero a rifle scope (or irons), it's off a lead sled, which takes me out of the equation. My usual standard is three shots to zero, three more to confirm, the rest I shoot without the lead sled to make sure I can shoot close to what the rifle can. Oh, and I zero and shoot with a cold barrel, since that's how I'll do it while hunting. I have steel plates setup now, because it's more satisfying, to me, to hear the ring off the plate vs holes in paper. But I also have bullseye plates, which give me a much smaller inner plate to strive for.

[waksupi]

I find bench work essential to working up good loads.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I much prefer to shoot rifle offhand. But as Waksupi mentions, some bench time is needed for load testing...and dang it, it seems like I do more load testing than fun offhand shooting.

[ghh3rd]

I figure the more accurate that I can make a load, the better the chance that I’ll hit an animal where I’m aiming, or at least close enough.

[NSB]

After sixty plus years of shooting I find the only interesting guns are the accurate ones. To each his own I guess.

[JBinMN]

Even though many consider it a chore,I find it extremely enjoyable to do load testing from a sandbag/bench.
Testing different powders & other components in different calibers just intrigues me.

I like to go out & plink for "target practice" with rifles/shotguns & pistols freehanded without being on the bench, and do that once I have found out what the bench/load testing has told me, but I find that the trip getting to the destination is as fun, or more fun than the destination itself.

Funny... I am that way when I travel as well. Stopping once in a while to meet locals, or see /visit interesting places, as well as enjoying the view along the way, to me, is just as much fun if not more than actually getting to where I was going.

I am a strange man, though. To each their own... We all should "walk our own walk", IMO.
;)

[FISH4BUGS]

I shoot machine guns. Who cares about accuracy? I just want every round to go bang! :)

[Shopdog]

I varmint hunt with CB's...... Deer hunt with recurves and longbows.

I need velocity,the more the merrier,need first round cold bore dependability, and the precision afforded by tight little groups.Bench testing is a necessary evil to the above..... to a point.Then,mucho practice in the field using bipod or shooting sticks.Hard to beat shooting at beercans.For me,they are a very good representation of practical accuracy.

To each their own,the main thing is to enjoy the experience. Some folks thrive on shooting groups?I like drilling beercans?

[Wayne Smith]

Well, if I had a place to do it ... . Here in suburbia you can't shoot in your back yard and I drive about 40 minutes to get to the outdoor range. There it's bench, or a couple of non bench at 100 where you can shoot prone or sitting. Then I'm a little proud of the .477" 50yd 22Mag group I shot Sat. I don't remember if it is seven or eight shots - it is what was left in the magazine when my friend (2nd time shooting!) handed it to me to try the 03A3. The rifle? A Browning T-Bolt.

Yeah, I took a 23 yr old city kid from Church shooting.

[snowwolfe]

When I am shooting squirrels 90 yards away with my 17 HMR I need accuracy. When we are deer hunting and shooting at deer no more than 40 yards away 3 MOA is plenty good enough.

[Thundarstick]

Then your obviously on the other end of Tennessee! On this end a 400 yard shot is often in the cards, so, I'm looking for any inch or under at 100.

[fast ronnie]

Different guns have different purposes ----- but----- if the gun isn't accurate for what it was designed for, it gets fixed.

[Don Purcell]

Like they say shooting is 10% physical and 90% mental. Anything that ups your game mentally can only help. If your load will stay in 1 inch at 100 yds. from the bench that's a great confidence builder. That being said NOTHING makes up for field position trigger time.

[crowbuster]

I find bench work essential to working up good loads.

Same here. I wanna know what the gun/ load will do. The rest is up to me. Pun intended.

[higgins]

In addition to adolescent plinking with a .22 rifle, I came up through smallbore and highpower competition, so did a lot of shooting from field positions and was good at it at one time. Then came groundhog sniping at distance, usually with an improvised rest like a fence post or tree. Now I'm too old and fat to get in the proper competition positions, and I don't hunt anymore so most of my shooting is off of a bench, either to sight in a rifle, test loads, or to shoot reactive targets like clay targets, dirt clods, metallic targets. I suppose I've reached a point where I combine precision and non-precision shooting and enjoy both.

[Tripplebeards]

Gotta start at the bench to work up loads. Then when you free hand and miss you know it was on you.

I've been testing cast boolit loads in my leadsled this past week and some of the worst boolit/powder recipes have shot a half foot group at a 100 yards. Can you imagine how that load would shoot free hand?

My best cast boolit load measured 3/4" of an inch. Therefore I have a little room for error when shooting off hand if I move, wiggle, or accidentally flinch.

It's like trying to sight your gun in free handed. Your never going to get it dead nuts unless it's not moving.

[RED BEAR]

i shoot mainly handguns for selfdefence. as long as i keep them all in the black at 25 yards thats good enough for me. my eyes ain't what they used to be so my open sight rifles i just take out for fun. the scoped ones i try for accuracy with varying degrees of success.

[snowwolfe]

Then your obviously on the other end of Tennessee! On this end a 400 yard shot is often in the cards, so, I'm looking for any inch or under at 100.

Exactly. We hunt our 42 acres of timber. A 40 yard shot is the long exception. 25-30 is about the average.

[500Linebaughbuck]

I dont care much about accuracy, at least in the sense of making small groups from a bench. I really only care about hunting accuracy, and shooting from field positions, mostly offhand. I normally load to duplicate factory power and as long as I get factory accuracy im pretty content.

I reload mostly for the economy, but also self sufficiency and the hobby factor comes into play. Most of the guns I am interested in, are either handguns or short range rifles. Rifles like my winchester 94 30-30.

I do have some interest in getting a bolt action rifle with a scope, but I normally dont like such. However, I digress, when I get a scope sighted bolt gun I would be happy with less than 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards considering i'd never shoot past 350 yards, and rarely if ever that distance. And I wouldnt worry any if I averaged 2" groups for that matter.

I dont hardly ever shoot from a bench. If I shoot for accuracy, I go prone as I dont have a bench. I generally shoot seated, off my knees and standing for both practice and fun. With a rifle, I can easily hit an empty shotgun shell at 25 yards with my 22 rifle offhand. And can get between 4" and 6" on a normal day with a handgun at the same distance. On a good day, I can hit a 2" target at 25 yards with a handgun, provided the sights are suitable and the gun will do it. My moms single six will do it, when I can. I've done a lot of practicing, dry firing and shooting over the years to get that good. While most folks caint hit the broad side of a barn offhand, I know an expert can put me to shame.

So I figure... if either factory ammo or my reloads can do better than I can from the shooting positions I normally use, why worry about getting smaller groups from the bench.

Is there anyone else that prefers practical field shooting opposed to the bench bound accuracy game? Is it just me? Am I nuts?

Bazoo




i used to be "Accuracy is King". now, not so much. i have gotten rid of "varmint" rifles, except the 20 vartarg which goes 1/4 - 3/8" at 100 yards(5 shots/benched). i use cast boolits to kill my game(deer/bear) at about 200 yards, but 50 yards and less is more likely. i don't need sub minute rifle that can take the hair off a fly's right testicle at 1800 yards(it sure would be fun to do:smile:).

for hunting large game, cast boolits about 2 or 3" at 100 yards.

[Walks]

ACCURACY IS KING !!!!!!!!!

I don't mean in the sense that the heavy rifle long range guys shoot, or BenchRest.

I think a solid rest is the BEST way to learn the basics.
Trigger squeeze, sight alignment & windage, breathing, etc.

If I measured groups of 4 to 6 inches at 25yds with a Handgun, I'd never have hit a running jackrabbit with my DAD'S old COLT OFFICIAL POLICE or a SAA.

The old WEATHERBY ACCURACY GUARANTEE of 3 shot's in an 1 1/2" is fine by me for a HUNTING RIFLE. Developing accurate loads is half the fun.

I can get the same out of all my COWBOY Pistol caliber LEVER RIFLES at 50yds.
And I expect 2" out of my RIFLE Caliber LEVER Guns at 100yds with either style of PEEP sight. But I just enjoy being at the Range Shooting just about anything. And yes I still shoot off hand when my back will take it. Growing up we practiced shooting from every position with or without a make shift rest. With my arthritis, busted back and losing my eyesight I'm just happy to hit paper and not break the target frame.

But when all is said & done, and the last round hits the target.

ACCURACY IS WHAT YOU NEED IT TO BE.

An Eastern DEER HUNTER in a tree stand needs 3" or less at 50yds.
An ALASKAN SHEEP HUNTER needs less than 3" at 350yds

[lefty o]

we all do it our own way. not that it applies here, but i get so tired of hearing shooters *****, whine, and cry about how others enjoy their hobby.

[fatelk]

I don't need no accuracy; I just like to make noise. Gimme my tacticool SKS with a couple 30 cal mag clips and the shoulder thingy that goes up, and I'm good!

[fatelk]

I used to think that I should have a real accurate target rifle that could shoot tiny little groups, and then practice until I was really good. One day I realized that I didn't really enjoy it, and there really wasn't any practicality in it, for me at least. I quit, then and there. I still enjoy accurate shooting at times, within reason; I'm just not competitive about it. It's just not my thing.

It's kind of like hunting. Absolutely nothing wrong with it; it's just not my thing. I didn't enjoy it so I quit doing it.

[Rcmaveric]

I know my off hand game is weak. So I reload and keep testing until i produce a consistent MOA group. MOA is my standard and anything tighter is just to brag. Now if i take an off hand shot and miss. I know beyond a reasonable doubt is was me and not the ammo. All my riffle make except 1 shots MOA. I haven't given up on it. Thrill of the chase and science is just as fun. Hand guns, as long as its better than factory and/or hit plates at 25 yards I am happy. If i sandbag the pistol and it groups 2-3 inches at 25 yards, then if i miss a plate its my fault.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

So I figure... if either factory ammo or my reloads can do better than I can from the shooting positions I normally use, why worry about getting smaller groups from the bench.



Errors are cumulative. If you and the rifle are both capable of making a 1½in. group at 100 yards, a 3in. group at that distance is what you get, and that isn't going to be reliable on a deer-sized animal at 350 yards, or through criss-crossing branches at closer range. The smaller the group, the better your chances, and as people have said, bench testing is the way to find the most accurate load. While you wouldn't want to fire a lot of shots until you know you are getting warm, ten-shot groups have a lot more than 3⅓ times the statistical validity of three-shot. The person who needs a 3in. group at 350 yards, particularly on something smaller than sheep, also needs to tell the difference between that and 375.

There is a lot of truth, though, in what you say. Things like the ability to see and ease into a supported position without alarming game can be more valuable than absolute accuracy. The First World War sniper I knew in childhood (smaller, weaker and far shyer than the female soldiers of the present day, and convinced it was his Christian duty to send a German home alive to take his pension whenever he could) told me that almost anybody could shoot well enough. But he could enter a room and sit down without being noticed, and swore he could see gusts of wind walking around a quarter-mile away.

It isn't that long since rifle makers would answer a complaint about a three-inch group by saying it was within their standards. Barrels (some of them) have been made as well as they are today for well over a century, and the improvement lies mostly in what amateur benchresters and the small bulletmakers who cater for them have prodded the major bullet firms into doing for us. But the benchresters also have a "don't do what we do" lesson for us. The ultimate accuracy is achieved by a perfect fit of case to chamber, so close it can't accommodate the slightest amount of dirt, and by a loose sliding fit of bullet to case neck. If something of that kind can go wrong, when the lion is about to eat you up, or the trophy of a lifetime is going to thumb his nose at you, is the time it will go wrong.

[Lloyd Smale]

2 inch groups at 300 yards are adequate if everything else is perfect. Add in wind and the fact your field shooting isn't going to usually be on a perfect rest and you may have to shoot when your a bit winded or your heart is beating a bit more or even just the stress that about everyone has when actually shooting a deer vs a piece of paper and every little bit of accuracy you can get out of your rifle is a big plus. Id much rather shoot a 1/2moa gun then a 2 moa gun under field conditions. It just gives you more latitude for the other things that can effect your shot placement. Personaly I want a gun that shoots at least 1.5 inch at a 100 yards if im know my shots might be out to 200 yards and inch or less if im looking at anything more then that. I do shoot a number of deer every year at 300 yards or more and I take it very seriously. I don't settle for adequate. I want my gun to shoot the very best it can. I do practice ALOT shooting in field positions. But its after im satisfied that the gun im using is the very best it can be. Even 300 yard shooting takes more then most who haven't done it understand. Its far from a chip shot. Economy is great. but I wouldn't take off to California tommarow with a car running fairly well. Id make sure it was at its best. A lot of this has to do with the way you hunt. If your sitting in a deer blind with a rest and a LONG shot is a 100 yards then I too wouldn't get to conserned about moa. But when I go out and shoot living animals at 300 yards or more I want only the best. If nothing else it gives me the peace of mind knowing that if I do make a poor shot its my fault not the guns.

[glockfan]

^^^^^

exactly.

a loose gun at 100 gets you a 12 gauge past 200.

i don't accept a gun that shoots anywhere. on top of that, i have some respect for the game i'm shooting at, i make a point of hitting it where it count.not in the butt,not in the legs,not in the jaws .......

shot placement is a mark of respect toward the animal who gets you this rewarding delicious meat. at least that's how my hunting ethic goes by .

i left many animals go away because i wasn't sure of either my shots ,or the animal stance-position. however i respect any point of view on this specific part.me i want to kill,not only wound ,then track , then kill.

[JoeJames]

I generally pistol shoot. I work up the best loads for each pistol off the bench with my pistol rest. But, once I've settled on a pet load then I practice my shooting either off hand or (blessed to live out in the Ozark hill country on a 100 acres of woods) by sitting on my porch steps shooting off a knee rest at cans and such for practice. Been shooting 32 S&W Long SWC's, 38 Special SWC's, and 44 Special SWC's. If you don't shoot off hand regularly you lose it pretty fast.

My idea of perfection. Pet load - 6.8 grains Unique, CCI 300 primers, 240 grain Speer lead SWC. 15 yards off porch steps. I had done my range work way before this.
223523

[Tripplebeards]

This way of thinking must be common on outskirts of my property. I have a lot of wounded deer running around dragging their legs, guts hanging out, or shot in the rear. I end up putting them out of their misery and scaring away Mr. big with the report after waiting quietly in the woods for hours on end. You as a marksman, owe it to yourself and out the respect to the game animal, need to practice,practice, practice, and ring every bit of accuracy out of what ever firearm you use...or you shouldn't be in the woods. I've had these conversations with hunters sitting on the boarders right outside my property, if they can't take time to sight in their rifle and or take time to make the perfect shot but they want to take/waste my time and ruin my hunt in the process to stomp all over my woods looking for a wounded animal. Guess what my answer is?

Otherwise if all your doing is wasting your ammo on paper targets an your not a hunter go for it.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

You don't NEED a bolt gun to shoot to 300+ yards accurately. A Henry or Savage 99 in 308 Win works just fine(there are others), but over 150 yards is jacketed bullet distance for most cast bullet considerations(trajectory and wind drift), no entourage with range finders, wind gauges and such. It is great to talk about about hitting claybirds and shotshells but the real truth about your skill is only revealed with paper targets. There are always those shots staring back at you that say " REALLY ? YOU MISSED! ! BIG TIME!!" then you can figure out what you did wrong. There more accuracy is considered, the better results for any shooting. Shooting shotshells at 50 feet does not make a good shot at 200 yards. Shotshells at 100 yards, maybe.

[blackthorn]

i used to be "Accuracy is King". now, not so much. i have gotten rid of "varmint" rifles, except the 20 vartarg which goes 1/4 - 3/8" at 100 yards(5 shots/benched). i use cast boolits to kill my game(deer/bear) at about 200 yards, but 50 yards and less is more likely. i don't need sub minute rifle that can take the hair off a fly's right testicle at 1800 yards(it sure would be fun to do:smile:).

for hunting large game, cast boolits about 2 or 3" at 100 yards.

The fly might not think so!

[Smoke4320]

2 inch groups at 300 yards are adequate if everything else is perfect. Add in wind and the fact your field shooting isn't going to usually be on a perfect rest and you may have to shoot when your a bit winded or your heart is beating a bit more or even just the stress that about everyone has when actually shooting a deer vs a piece of paper and every little bit of accuracy you can get out of your rifle is a big plus. Id much rather shoot a 1/2moa gun then a 2 moa gun under field conditions. It just gives you more latitude for the other things that can effect your shot placement. Personaly I want a gun that shoots at least 1.5 inch at a 100 yards if im know my shots might be out to 200 yards and inch or less if im looking at anything more then that. I do shoot a number of deer every year at 300 yards or more and I take it very seriously. I don't settle for adequate. I want my gun to shoot the very best it can. I do practice ALOT shooting in field positions. But its after im satisfied that the gun im using is the very best it can be. Even 300 yard shooting takes more then most who haven't done it understand. Its far from a chip shot. Economy is great. but I wouldn't take off to California tommarow with a car running fairly well. Id make sure it was at its best. A lot of this has to do with the way you hunt. If your sitting in a deer blind with a rest and a LONG shot is a 100 yards then I too wouldn't get to conserned about moa. But when I go out and shoot living animals at 300 yards or more I want only the best. If nothing else it gives me the peace of mind knowing that if I do make a poor shot its my fault not the guns.

Pretty much sums up my shooting/hunting as well

[fatelk]

I have a life long friend who is a hunter. He has hunting in his blood, and he’s good at it. He’s the type that gets his prey every hunt, whatever he’s hunting. He even hunts for a living as a government trapper.

I’ve never known him to sit down with sandbags and shoot tiny little groups. The times we have, I can shoot better than him. Don’t get me wrong, he is a good shot, but when he sights his gun in its usually off the hood of his truck, shooting at a paper plate pinned to a stump. He’s a hunter, just not really a gun guy.

If there’s a buck on the move a hundred yards away, he’ll drop it, whereas I wouldn’t even try. He has the confidence of an experienced hunter, where I gave up on hunting a long time ago. I guess I’m one of those losers who wastes ammo on paper targets, if you want to look at it that way.

Admittedly the hunting around here is brushy and he probably doesn’t do a lot of 400+ yard shooting, and some time at a proper range doing some precision shooting would likely be beneficial for him, but I suspect that his practical hunting skills make up for a lot of that.

[500Linebaughbuck]

The fly might not think so!


Fly Lives Matter!!!!!

[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:

[Smoke4320]

Fly Lives Matter!!!!!

[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:

Fly swatters matter

[JoeJames]

This way of thinking must be common on outskirts of my property. I have a lot of wounded deer running around dragging their legs, guts hanging out, or shot in the rear. I end up putting them out of their misery and scaring away Mr. big with the report after waiting quietly in the woods for hours on end. You as a marksman, owe it to yourself and out the respect to the game animal, need to practice,practice, practice, and ring every bit of accuracy out of what ever firearm you use...or you shouldn't be in the woods. I've had these conversations with hunters sitting on the boarders right outside my property, if they can't take time to sight in their rifle and or take time to make the perfect shot but they want to take/waste my time and ruin my hunt in the process to stomp all over my woods looking for a wounded animal. Guess what my answer is?

Otherwise if all your doing is wasting your ammo on paper targets an your not a hunter go for it.Had some property north of my place. 100 acres. I was walking in; heard 3 shotgun blasts not far off. I waited, and the feller came out of the brush carrying an 1100. "Get it?" I asked. "No, just making some sound shots", he replied. Neighbor and I posted it the next day.

[Tom W.]

I've been hunting with single shot rifles since the 70's. The longest range that I can go to sight in is 100 yards, and my Ruger#1B will put my handloads in a nickel sized group at 2" high @100 yards. It makes me happy. I haven't hunted in several years due to health issues. My NEF 30/30 ain't no slouch either, although I just kill paper with it. My youngest son has used it for several years before he bought his own. I also have ( or had, I can't find it yet ) an NEF .270 that my first 11 shots on game resulted in 11 DRT deer. I like my rifles to be accurate. I have no desire to look for a deer, I much prefer DRT.
Now I can't pull one out of the woods due to the surgeries and stuff the doctors left in my body. If I get to go again I'll have to go with one of my sons...they are young and strong......

[dagger dog]

I like to wring as much accuracy out of each firearm I own, that requires a bench, once I know the firearm is capable, then I like to use as many positions off the bench. Then the only thing I can blame on a missed shot is me.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for all the replies. I havent considered that a tight shooting gun/ammo would be a psychological advantage.

[Tripplebeards]

I just look at it as everyone owes it to themselves to know what their gun is capable of on the bench first and then transfer over to free handing it with the best grouping load. That way if groups open up the operator Knows it was their fault and can practice shooting instead of wondering if it was the firearm or ammo to blame.

[JoeJames]

Thanks for all the replies. I havent considered that a tight shooting gun/ammo would be a psychological advantage.And a practical advantage. More you shoot the better you hit.

[sutherpride59]

I don’t fret too much over accuracy but I make sure I have enough. I get sub MOA out of my rifle with CBs or I’m not happy. My pistols I need at least 2” at 25 yards or better, my competition XDM does 1.58” on average at 25 yards so I’m more than happy with that. Accuracy isn’t the most important thing but it’s oretty darn!

[Bazoo]

Well, I finally built a shooting bench. The picnic table I used to use, gave up a few years ago so i've been doing without, shooting off of vehicles and the like. Prone off a rest is not to be sneezed at for accuracy, but its not nearly as convenient as a table. Now I can test loads properly.

In my original post, I think folks got the impression i didnt test my loads for accuracy... not so. I just dont chase the accuracy. As long as I can get accuracy equivalent to factory ammo in the same power range im content.

[snowwolfe]

I never felt the need for anything better than 1.5 MOA. Never once had the need to shoot beyond 300 yards and that includes dall sheep hunting, caribou, and some really long shots at blacktail deer on Kodiak Island.
To many hunters are more worried about what their rifle will do than what they can do with the rifle. For starters they need to get off the bench and stand on there own 2 feet and practice.
Even if a rifle can shoot 2 MOA at 400 yards that means you will hit within 4 inches of where you aimed.
Now varmint hunting is a different ball game altogether.

[am44mag]

If a gun can shoot about 2-3 MOA, I'm generally pretty happy. I tend to hold newer guns to a higher standard since guaranteed 1 MOA accuracy seems to be the new standard for most rifles. Milsurps get a pass unless accuracy just doesn't exist period. (My M1895 Nagant comes to mind. It shoots pie tin sized groups at point blank range).

[Bazoo]

I was testing loads the other day, I got a 1 5/8" group with my winchester 30-30, 31141 reload. Factory federal 170 grain did 1 3/8 group on the same session. Both of those at 70 yards. Im pretty happy with that.

[BD]

I only REALLY care about hunting accuracy from field positions. But to get there, I'll spend the time at the bench to get the rifle under 1 Moa out to 400 yards. It's only after I'm confident in the rifle and the load that I feel it's worth putting in the time to get good with it slung up sitting and prone or off the bipod or sticks. For me to get really comfortable with a hunting rig it takes 100 rounds or more from field positions, and I'm not wasting the resources on those 100 rounds until I have a load I can believe in. I never work up loads at 100 yards. I use 250 and 400. If the rifle will stay under Moa at those ranges, 100 yards will take care of itself.

[jonp]

I was testing loads the other day, I got a 1 5/8" group with my winchester 30-30, 31141 reload. Factory federal 170 grain did 1 3/8 group on the same session. Both of those at 70 yards. Im pretty happy with that.

Boy, I sure would be. 2 or 3in with a 30-30 will take a deer at the range the lever was designed for and that is good enough for me.

[Bazoo]

The sights on my winchester 94 arent really conducive to the best accuracy. However, im determined to use them instead of replacing them. The round front bead, and the round rear sight notch doesnt light up real good the way I like. A front sight blade and a square notch is much better for my eyes.

I have it sighted 2" high at 70, so that it'll be point blank out to 125 or 150 even. The reloads I was testing, I had 1 group that was right of the factory load, but the same height. However, the 1 5/8 group, was centered but low. Should be as easy as a sight elevation adjustment between my reload and the factory Im working with.

[wv109323]

After you achieve your greatest accuracy, there is little or no cost difference in loading good ammo or the most accurate ammo.
The only difference is the experimentation and knowledge to develope the better loads.