Cast Lead 9mm Hollow Point Expansion?

[ThomR]

I was wondering if anyone has tested a 9mm hollow point mold for expansion? I'm thinking about getting a hollow point mold next year to replicate my carry ammo, and was wondering if I could see similar expansion with cast lead. I currently carry 147 grain Hornady XTP's and have found a few molds that are a similar shape. A member here also sent me a PDF drawing replicating the XTP design.
What alloy would be best for a cast lead hollow point? I'm assuming lower antimony content would provide better expansion, but I don't really know for sure.
I'm not saying that this would be my carry ammo, only that I would like to know if I can get reliable expansion in the event that I can't get jacketed hollow points.

[Outpost75]

At 9mm velocities over 1000 fps air cooled wheelweights will expand fine with correct cavity geometry. My HP molds were done by Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com and feature a conical cavity of major diameter 0.66 of meplat diameter with 30 degree draft angle, which is twice as deep as the cavity diameter at meplat. At .38 Special, .380 ACP or .45 Colt velocities below 900 fps use 50-50 wheelweights and plumber's lead with 1% or 2% tin added.

223200223201223202

[fredj338]

The HP design is as important & relevant to the alloy used. I do fine with 25-1 lead-tin. If going over 1050fps, 20-1 & shallower HP design.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/136hp-1050.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/136hp-1050.jpg.html) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/45-215gr.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/45-215gr.jpg.html)

[KVO]

NOE 358-135 with the deep pins:
223203

Same boolit and velocity, boolit on the left the cavity was slightly modified but achieved essentially the same result.
223204
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223206

And this is the Mihec 360-640 with the deep pins, 20:1 ~145gr. It is designed for .38 Special and .357 magnum but works well in some 9mm autoloaders. The below was 4.2gr CFE Pistol @ 988fps from a 3.75" barrel:
223207
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Top two boolits I used a torx bit to skive the cavity, not a big difference in this case but fun to experiment:
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[JedYonkers]

NOE 358-135 with the deep pins:
223203

Same boolit and velocity, boolit on the left the cavity was slightly modified but achieved essentially the same result.
223204
223205
223206

And this is the Mihec 360-640 with the deep pins, 20:1 ~145gr. It is designed for .38 Special and .357 magnum but works well in some 9mm autoloaders. The below was 4.2gr CFE Pistol @ 988fps from a 3.75" barrel:
223207
223208
Top two boolits I used a torx bit to skive the cavity, not a big difference in this case but fun to experiment:
223209
223210

My results with 2:1 COWW and stick ons +tin are about the same with the noe 135 hp. I get better expansion and less broken noses with the shallow pin. Bullets were shot into snow muzzle velocity was about 1050 as well

[ThomR]

After checking prices of molds I think I have settled on the NOE 155 grain TC elco.
I'll have to get my hands on some tin and cast up a whole bunch of 20:1 hollow points.

[KVO]

If you get really adventuresome with modifying or making your own HP pins, the NOE molds are easy to play with. Al sells blank RG pins for just a few bucks.

[ThomR]

It seems that heavy 9mm molds are few and far between. I'll probably end up getting one of these instead.
https://www.mp-molds.com/index.php/e-shop/molds/hollow-points-molds/mp-359-125-hp-pb-4-cav-no-lube-groove

[Gamsek]

Or this one....
Mihec .359-147 no groove (Hitek) for 9mm
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=9688&share_tid=346218&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcastboolits%2Egunloads%2Ecom%2Fsh owthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D346218&share_type=t

[ThomR]

Or this one....
Mihec .359-147 no groove (Hitek) for 9mm
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=9688&share_tid=346218&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcastboolits%2Egunloads%2Ecom%2Fsh owthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D346218&share_type=t

I think that one would fit the bill.

[Forrest r]

Nothing more than +/- 9bhn air cooled range scrap 125gr hp (Mihec) out of a 3.2" bbl'd 9mm (1050fps).
https://i.imgur.com/ZxGtzF4.jpg

Thought about getting a heavier hp mold for the 9mm to use in the longer bbl'd firearms. Until that same bullet in a 5" bbl'd 9mm
https://i.imgur.com/a8fXZPh.jpg

Did this with a 1100fps plinking load
https://i.imgur.com/N6XBlbc.jpg

[KVO]

The Mihec 359-125 HP (like Forrest r shows) seems to be the "standard" for 9mm cast hollow points. There's a group buy on them now, I believe it is in last call. He also keeps them in stock at regular price most of the time. I keep wafting back and forth on that one, I already have the NOE that is practically the same boolit but is it crazy to want both?

[Gamsek]

The Mihec 359-125 HP (like Forrest r shows) seems to be the "standard" for 9mm cast hollow points. There's a group buy on them now, I believe it is in last call. He also keeps them in stock at regular price most of the time. I keep wafting back and forth on that one, I already have the NOE that is practically the same boolit but is it crazy to want both?

Not crazy if you are a “penta” fan (as I) but your testing and cast bullets already look very beautiful. I borrowed that 359-125 from a friend to play with HP a bit, propelled to 340m/s this bullet could be ultimate defensive load. 20:1 alloy works beautifully. ww will break the petals.
Maybe I will add it to my collection of MiHec 9mm solid bullets.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/f3c06c4318e3f4039c3617138c5c3851.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/6878ff724e1eccb3809ad882b36ba7a6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/54134652a1867391490dbc571ef543fb.jpg

[ThomR]

I'd really like to get an XTP style hollow point mold. I know that Accurate molds has a couple of them that are very close, but I don't believe Accurate molds makes hollow point molds.

[KVO]

By XTP style, are you meaning profile and therefore feeding characteristics, or terminal ballistic performance? Just because they have the same shape does not necessarily mean they will have the same point of impact. Give us a bit more info as to your intended purpose and guns that you'll be using them in and we can give you a bit more focused advice. FYI as far as terminal performance goes, any of the above examples from the folks here are going to open bigger and more reliably than most of the XTPs, based on my testing with gel. XTPs are very accurate but their terminal performance is a bit underwhelming compared to just about any other JHP you can buy.

[ThomR]

By XTP style, are you meaning profile and therefore feeding characteristics, or terminal ballistic performance? Just because they have the same shape does not necessarily mean they will have the same point of impact. Give us a bit more info as to your intended purpose and guns that you'll be using them in and we can give you a bit more focused advice. FYI as far as terminal performance goes, any of the above examples from the folks here are going to open bigger and more reliably than most of the XTPs, based on my testing with gel. XTPs are very accurate but their terminal performance is a bit underwhelming compared to just about any other JHP you can buy.

The reason being is that my current carry ammo is the 147 grain XTP. I was under the impression that I could replicate the XTP bullets and achieve similar accuracy, with potentially better terminal ballistics. I'm not dead set on the XTP design, I was just interested in a hollow point mold that is a similar size and shape to commercially available defensive bullets in the 147 grain variety.
The mold that gamsek posted the link to will most likely be the one I go with. It appears to be similar to something like a Speer gold dot, so I'm assuming the feeding characteristics would be the same or similar. I will just have to adjust my loadings for that specific mold.
I am still pretty new at boolit casting and the world of hand loading, so I could be completely wrong. If that is the case please steer me in the right direction.

[tazman]

NOE offers a mold called 358-155-TC(ELCO). When using the hollow point pins, it drops at 147 grains. This boolit works well in every 9mm I have tried it in which is about 8 of them.
I use this one whenever I go with heavy boolits in 9mm.
Do a search for TC(ELCO) on this site and you will find several thread about it. A group of us got together and had Al make this one for us. It was designed for 9mm from the start and has as little boolit inside the case as possible leaving room for powder and reduced pressure. It works like a champ.

[KVO]

ThomR,

I'd not get too hung up on the boolit profile matching your carry ammo because they may or may not shoot to a similar POI even if they are dimensionally identical. The engraving force and subsequent pressure curve is going to be different between a jacketed bullet and a cast one even for an identical profile. Also, JHP as a generality underneath that tough jacket have a very soft if not pure core, much softer then most of our cast lead projectiles so the expansion characteristics will be dissimilar even with the exact same HP cavity geometry. All that is to say that it makes it an apples to oranges comparison. Decent chance that equivalent bullet/boolit weights will get you about the same elevation in regards to POI coinciding with your sights as they are now.

If you are looking to replicate your current preferred ammo don't sweat the boolit profile, find something that is about the same weight and if it's any of the more recent manufacture 9mm pistols, look for a boolit profile that will fit in a very short throat. Fat ogives can be problematic in many 9mm pistols. If not a truncated cone, boolits with a steep ogive or somewhat reduced front diameter will clear the rifling easily when chambered and are more tolerant of things like powder coating without effecting the seating depth. Beware that the 155gr ELCO boolit works well with conventional lubing but is notorious for needing shorter seating depth when powder coated (was not designed with coating in mind).

Again, most of the current popular boolit designs ought to work well for your intended purposes, just get a sample of the one you prefer or something similar to try before you fork out big bucks on a mold. Keep the questions coming, there are a lot of good folks here who will help you along the way!

[tazman]

ThomR,
Beware that the 155gr ELCO boolit works well with conventional lubing but is notorious for needing shorter seating depth when powder coated (was not designed with coating in mind).


This is true. I have no issues with the TC(ELCO) but I don't powder coat. Others who powder coat have had issues with seating depth.

[ThomR]

This is true. I have no issues with the TC(ELCO) but I don't powder coat. Others who powder coat have had issues with seating depth.

I powder coat, so I'll stay away from that mold.

[ThomR]

Again, most of the current popular boolit designs ought to work well for your intended purposes, just get a sample of the one you prefer or something similar to try before you fork out big bucks on a mold. Keep the questions coming, there are a lot of good folks here who will help you along the way!

If anyone has a a handful of 9mm hollow points they would be willing to send me I'd really appreciate it. I'd prefer 147 grain, but am not against 124 grain.

[fredj338]

The reason being is that my current carry ammo is the 147 grain XTP. I was under the impression that I could replicate the XTP bullets and achieve similar accuracy, with potentially better terminal ballistics. I'm not dead set on the XTP design, I was just interested in a hollow point mold that is a similar size and shape to commercially available defensive bullets in the 147 grain variety.
The mold that gamsek posted the link to will most likely be the one I go with. It appears to be similar to something like a Speer gold dot, so I'm assuming the feeding characteristics would be the same or similar. I will just have to adjust my loadings for that specific mold.
I am still pretty new at boolit casting and the world of hand loading, so I could be completely wrong. If that is the case please steer me in the right direction.
You are over thinking this. Any 147gr bullet running the same vel as the XTP factory load is going to feel the same & shoot to POA/POI, most of the time. I would just get a 147gr solid mold & use that for practice.

[ThomR]

You are over thinking this. Any 147gr bullet running the same vel as the XTP factory load is going to feel the same & shoot to POA/POI, most of the time. I would just get a 147gr solid mold & use that for practice.

One of the members here is sending me a handful of 147 grain hollow points for me to try out. They are the Mihek 147 grain hollow points. I'm strongly leaning towards that mold.

[Low Budget Shooter]

My experience with the Mihec 125 grain bullet has been similar to Forest's: excellent expansion without coming apart AND excellent accuracy between 1,000-1,100 fps. It has to be the closest thing yet to a perfect cast lead hollow point 9mm bullet. My best results have been with 1:1 ratio of COWW to SOWW.