Need help with ideas for polishing a barrel

[Southern Son]

Kind Folks, I have a Spagetti Hiwall that I had a Gunsmith rebarrel for me with a Green Mountain 45 barrell. To save time at the Gunsmith (and therefor money) I told him that I would polish and blue (actually rust brown) the barrel. I have found that the "flats" of the octagonal barrel are slightly concave and there are obvious machine marks from where the flats were machined onto the barrel. I have tried polishing with 120 grit wet and dry, followed by 240 (I was thinking of going to about 400 grit), however, I am going through wet and dry at an alarming rate.

To keep the flats flat and the corners on the octagonal barrel, I wrap the wet and dry around a short peice of flat steel bar. I polish along the length of the barrel, paying attention to not round off the corners, however, getting all of the machine marks off the barrel it taking ages (either side of the flat polish up quick, but the middle takes ages). At the rate I am going through wet and dry, I am starting to think that there has to be a better way.

Anyone who has done this (or heard of good ideas to do it) know a better way (other than send it back to the Gunsmith)? I spent 4 hours on it the other day and bearly got one of the flats to an acceptable polish (I do however have no fingerprints on my thumbs or index fingers).:confused:

[10-x]

Southern Son,
How good are you with a file and a stone?
A fine tooth file (mill bastard)used in one direction, using light pressure ,regular cleaning with a card and followed by a stone/oil will get you there much quicker than any paper. Some old timers even use soapstone on the file first to keep it from loading up.
You will need a GOOD vice , good light and a straight edge(turn a steel ruler on edge) to check flatness.
I'm sure there will be a few more sugestions, pick the one that will work best for you.
Good Luck:drinks:[/SIZE]

[Morgan Astorbilt]

You are probably advancing through paper grades too quickly. Try starting with 80 grit, until you can't see any toolmarks larger than the finish left by that grit. Then go up to 120, 180. 220, etc. the same way. If you find tool marks that are taking too long to polish out, go back to the next coarser grit 'till they're gone, and then advance to the next finer. Polishing is the most labor-intensive part of gun finishing.
For backers, I use blocks of Micarta, with all the edges broken, not steel, and heavy 3/8" thick leather machine belting. You might try a piece of maple or other hardwood, breaking the edges, so you can move around the paper easier, instead of the steel.
Morgan

[Morgan Astorbilt]

10-X Gives good advice draw filing with a mill file. I'd like to add that if you can't find soapstone, rubbing the file with chalk will give a finer finish, and help keep the teeth from clogging.
Morgan

[Dave Berryhill]

Good advice from both gentlemen. I'd add that besides using chalk, check your file regularly and clean it with a brush or file card if it starts to load up. The metal that builds up in the teeth will scratch your work.

Also, there is no need to use wet and dry paper until your final polishing grits if emery cloth is cheaper.

[waksupi]

I use the file method on octagon barrels. You can most certainly take it to the degree you need, for browning. No need for a high polish for that. When draw filing, hold the tail in your left hand, and draw towards you, lifting the file between strokes. As long as you don't get a pin in the file, the finish will be good. The chalk is a very good thing, as is a flattened cartridge case, to clean out any pins you may pick up.

[scrapcan]

The above description of draw filing will get you what you want. use chalk/soapstone and use the smashed mouth of a cartridge case as Waksupi suggested to keep the file teeth clean. If you are lucky you can find a file card, I went to every idnustrial supply and hardware store in my town and not a single person knew what I was talking about. I finally found one in a dollar store that was labeled as a "file cleaner". We are becoming a very stupid society.

[10-x]

manleyjt,
You are so right , this country has been OD'ing on "Stupid Pills", "Ignorance Pills" or both.
Go in a hardware store and ask the kid for a Bastard File.........wana bet they throw you out?[smilie=1:

[MtGun44]

I draw filed the barrel on my TC Hawken kit and it works fine. Heed the
advice to chalk and clean the file. You will REALLY be pissed when you
don't check the file often enough and put a nice scratch on that flat
just about when you think it is done. Guess how I know? [smilie=1:

THEN go to the wet or dry sandpaper and don't get in too big a hurry
dropping down a grit size - gotta work out ALL the coarser scratches.

Good luck.

Bill

[Morgan Astorbilt]

MSC has several different file cards. That's where I get mine.
Morgan

[Southern Son]

Thanks for your replies gentlemen. Looks Like I will have to put the job back into the cupboard for a while. The only hardware store in my town sell cheap rubbish for premium prices (it is also the local gun shop and I saw that he had 50 rounds of 32/20 in the cabinet for $65.00, and it is stock so old that the box has faded). I will go to Mackay some time in the next few weeks and get a good quality mill bastard file (I have a few others I use for knife making, but they are all fairly coarse and cheap). Thanks for the tip on the chalk/soapstone. I had not heard that one before.

10-x, it aint just the US that has too many stupid people. I went to visit mum and dad in the big smoke a few months ago. I thought while I was down there, I would visit a foundry and get some lead and tin. I gave up when one bloke I rang asked me to spell tin.

[John Taylor]

Another little trick for draw filing, use a barrel spinner. This is a tool sold by Brownells and soon to be at Midway for spinning barrels against a belt sander for polishing. If you use one to hold an octagon barrel while draw filing it will not round off the corners as the barrel will tilt with the file keeping everything flat. http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/highres/543792.jpg

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Get a mill file, but not a bastard, it's a bit too coarse. Get a 2nd. cut, or smooth file.
Morgan

[10-x]

Morgan,
You're right a 2nd cut may give a finish you don't have to stone. Thinking not to make it to hard. Now finding good stones.......thats a another issue[smilie=1:
Seems mill supply houses only have the 2 sided Norton ones.
Guess its good that I'm out of the business............:twisted:

[leftiye]

Southern Son, We have the same problems with overpriced poo poo and nobody carrying anything worthwhile down here in Utah (and we're light years more overdeveloped than McKay is). Maybe not so bad though eh? MSC will send you a HUGE catalog just for asking. I've done most of my gun related buying over the phone for about 30 years. In the local scenario if every mo mo down the street doesn't want one, they won't stock it. Places like brownell's and MSC also have excellent tech departments and will help you on your way to solutions for your ideas. Kinda like using the building inspector to help you design your house to code.

[Southern Son]

John, I don't know if that barrel spinner would fit my barrel at the moment, seeing as the is still in the receiver (I don't have an action wrench or the tools/materials to make one).

Morgan, 2nd cut or smooth, check.

Leftiye, the next time I ask for something in the shop and someone says "We can get that in...", well, I could loose what is left of my mind. This is the age of the internet, I CAN GET THAT IN. Just cause they can't sell 30 units a week, they won't stock it. It gets even worse here in Oz, with importers not even having stuff so when you order something at the shop, he will call the importer, who will call his supplier in Asia or whatever and then whatever you have ordered gets added onto the next shipment. If you are lucky. If you are not lucky, then it will be on the next one, or the one after. I do like to support local shops when I can, but I won't hesitate to cut them and their importer out of the loop if they are going to stuff me around. I already have a Brownells book, who are MSC (if it is Midway, then it is no good, my mate the gunsmith tells me they won't send stuff to Oz).

Might be able to get into Mackay week after next (I am stuck in a computer sourse for 4 days next week so I won't be able to do it then).

Thanks for the help guys.

[MtGun44]

MSC is a machine shop/tool supplier. ENCO is another one.

http://www1.mscdirect.com

http://www.use-enco.com

Both are good companies and even their house brands are pretty
decent stuff at lower prices.

I have no idea if they will ship to NZ or OZ.

Bill

From the REAL Oz ! (Kansas!) :-D

[KCSO]

Get this months ASSRA magazine as they have an excellent article on using stones for polishing. In no way do you want a finer finish that say 220 for browings and that is about what drawfiling leaves. 330 is really almost too smooth for rust bluing but it will works if you have a good humidity cabinet. I fyou can afford one get you a long angle LATHE file for draw filing and put a handle on both ends and use it ONLY for draw filing. I've tried chalk and soap stone and see no difference but I clean my file often with a card. If you are draw filing and need to use a case to take out pinning you have already scratched the barrel pretty good, keep it clean.

[leftiye]

I use Laurel Mountain browning. As KCSO said some browning (like this Laurel Mtn. brand) actually create a matte surface. Sanding too fine is a waste of time with these chemicals. A smoother, redder finish is possible with Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown, but it is a PITA to accomplish - many repititions of applying, carding with steel wool, working specific problem areas, all while hot enough to sizzle the chemicals. The laurel mtn. stuff you just clean the surface, free of oils and grease, and put the reagent on and wait a day or two, card and repeat a couple of times. Dead matte finish the color of a brown crayon (instructions on the bottle - Birchwood Casey's instructions don't work BTW).

[Blackwater]

Southern Son, you've gotten good info here. Yet another way to polish that barrel, and one that some find easier to get a good, consistent flat with, is to get a long piece of 3/8" plate glass (or thicker) and use double stick tape (stickum on both sides) to attach strips of wet or dry sandpaper to it. Put a little water on the barrel and/or paper, enough to carry off the particles of steel and abrasive as they abrade the flats smooth, and then lay the barrel (flat down) on the sandpapered glass and GENTLY run it back and forth longitudinally on the glass. That is, you push the barrel, not the glass, back and forth.

You'll need to do this somewhere where the dirty water/sand/iron shavings mix won't cause domestic problems.

When you start, it's a good idea to slide the barrel back and forth a set number of times for each flat, and each grit, to keep everything "even" all around. What grit you start with will depend on your own judgment. It might take 220 grit to start, if the barrel's a bit rough, or you may be able to use 320. Just keep count of your back and forth laps, and keep them even all around. I'd go to at least 400 or maybe 600 grit to finish it, but let your own eye and your own vision of what you want it to look like be your guide. Bluing usually (except for really high polish finishes) gives a slightly more subdued luster after hot bluing than the originally polished raw white metal will look like, so that cold be a factor for you to keep in mind also.

Good luck, and post a pic of the gun when it's done. I don't think I'm alone in saying I'd like to see it.

[Southron Sanders]

When I polish barrels for browning I use emery paper, starting out with the coarser grits and then going to the finer grits. For musket locks, just as with the barrels, I start with a coarser grit (wrapped around a flat piece of steel) and then to the finer grits.

Using that technique and finishing up with 600 grit I can make the inside of a lock plate shine just like a mirror! Matter of fact, you can actually see your face in it! This is one of the techniques I use to produce a S-M-O-O-T-H functioning lock with a light, crisp trigger pull and a reduced "lock time" for match rifles.

I have also polished and browned octagonal barrels using progressive grits of emery paper wrapped around a FLAT piece of steel. Just take your time and keep "your flats flat!"

GOOD LUCK!

[Southern Son]

Guys, thanks for the tips, I finally got into the big smoke and got a 2nd cut file and a smooth cut file. I have chalked them up and hopefully tomorrow I will be having my very first try at draw filing.