New S&W 57-6 is JUNK

[megasupermagnum]

I bought this one a few months ago, and have been fighting it since. The grips they come with are junk, the quality is junk, and the accuracy is junk. I got rid of the grips the first day, not a big deal. The quality is not there for the price. There is all kinds of scratches and the stamping isn't even straight. The worst part is the cylinder bluing. I probably have around 400 rounds through the gun now. The bluing on the front of the cylinder was wiped off right away. Now the sides of the cylinder are being blasted off too, and I'm not sure why. Older S&W's with more rounds through them don't have this problem. Now the big problem is that this is the least accurate gun I own by a far. I've never shot it at 50 yards, because I can barely keep them on paper at 25. I've tried all kinds of powders, and both jacketed and cast bullets. In my dads 57-2, the most accurate load was a SWC with bluedot, and will group under 3" at 50 yards all day long. This is also the most accurate load in my handgun, but I'm doing good to shoot 4" at 25 yards. I was getting all kinds of lead fouling, and I knew the throats were about the same or smaller than the groove diameter, so I sent if off to be reamed. Now that they are perfect, accuracy has not improved one bit! There doesn't seem to be a thread choke from the frame, actually it almost feels like a recess. With that, the barrel seems to be tapered to get bigger at the muzzle. The barrel is clean for the first 1/2" or so, then gets progressively worse. At the muzzle it has bad copper fouling after only 50 rounds.

No response by email from Smith and Wesson. I was on hold today for about 20 minutes, and was disconnected. Now I try to call again, and they are closed for the holiday. It seemed so dumb at the time to pay $1200 for a used gun, now I am kicking myself for not doing it.

[JoeJames]

I swore I'd never buy a Smith with a Hillary hole, and now it appears my instinct was correct. I hope things work out after the 4th.

[RichardB]

While I took used Blue Dot in the 41 Mag for some time I learned that in cold weather it pressure spikes badly. Wrote to the powder company asking questions and never got a response. In the last year or two they have come out with a definitive "don't use Blue Dot in the 41 Mag".

Seems like you found out why the previous owner got rid of it. Usual processes you may not have tried..

recut forcing cone and muzzle crown
slug barrel and size to .001 -.002 over
try different alloys from soft to hard
Lap barrel to same dimension thoughout its length
Try groups shooting each chamber individually
Replace the barrel or cylinder as last resorts

Sell the dang thing!

Please keep us informed

RichardB

[megasupermagnum]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, this gun was purchased brand new in box, but I should have purchased an old one. The barrel is garbage, plain and simple, and needs to be replaced. I just hope I don't get the run around from S&W. It seems like you have to spend $2000 just to have a working handgun anymore.

I've had the cylinder throats reamed uniformly by a professional. I've tried to the slug the bore, but I can't do it accurately. Pushed all the way through, it measured .408, and I'm guessing there is a constriction. Normally 41 mags are .410" and don't vary much from that beyond normal tolerances. I've tried two cast bullets, both SWC's, sized .411" and .412" (just under throat diameter), as well as a remington 210 grain JSP and XTP hollow point. I've tried all kinds of powders, 700X, Blue dot, H110, AA #9, HS6, even blackpowder. Oddly, FFg blackpowder with a SWC probably gave the best groups of anything at about 4". All shooting done off sandbags. I'm not a great handgun shooter, but 1 1/2" at 25 yards is no problem at all with any other of my handguns.

Not to sound like a ding dong, but Alliant has had that warning about blue dot for at least 10 years now, and when questioned, they have never been able to reproduce any of the problems in the lab. They just got so many reports of problems, they decided to put out the warning. The only cold weather spiking I have heard about happened when it was -30F or lower, and I'm not even sure how credible the source is. I've personally ran these over the chronograph over the winter in -10F, and while the velocity had dropped, they were still very consistent.

[Guesser]

I've looked at a couple S&W revolvers in the "Classic" series. I did not like anything I felt or looked at. The finish, machine work, grips, etc; just cheesy.

[Drm50]

I own a good many S&W revolvers, the newest one I have is a 25-5, early production & Pinned.
I don't waste my time on new model stuff. All the gun companies are the same run by bean
counters who might as well be making toasters. They are all slipping. A few companies have decent customer service but to many guns are getting out of house that should have not left the
factory. They are getting to be like fast food joints were you pay before you recieve your order.
If you get bad food only a small percentage of people will complain. Gun companies are working
same plan. Most people won't go to the trouble to send guns back. They pay Smith to repair them
or just put in in a corner.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

What does the rifling look like? Is it shallow like that new electosis take metal away method? A friend showed me his 2 newly acquired Smith & Wesson .44 Specials at a match last weekend. One was a pre-Model 24, beautiful gun with the crown that was sharp, rifling in the bore that was cut crisp and real serrations on the front sight. They don’t make them like that anymore.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't have any way to accurately measure the rifling depth of a 5 groove, but I think all S&W's are EDM (S&W might call it ECM?) rifling, and this one should be no exception. Comparing the 57-2 side by side with my new 57-6, the rifling depth is about the same. Looking down the barrel of my 57-6 after cleaning, I can't see any imperfections. With a dirty barrel, they are very clear.

On a related note, I got to shoot a S&W airweight. I don't know the model number, but it is a scandium frame, 38 special. It's actually quite accurate, now that I think of it, off hand groups with it were about as good as my sand bag groups from my 57-6. The asinine thing about the airweight, you cant even pull the hammer back! I'm not talking a bobbed hammer, the design was such, the hammer cannot be physically cocked because it hits your hand. That might take the cake for dumbest thing I've seen from a firearm in a while. Double action was just fine though. Not long after that, my dad purchased the same exact gun. After pointing out the obvious defect, he actually got mad at me, and said it worked fine for him. He holds it about 1" low. Some people can overlook anything. I have a feeling S&W could quit rifling guns altogether, and people would still buy them.

Not all manufacturers are this way. I've bought 3 Rugers in the past 2 years, and all are great. Two had minor flaws. LCR sights were off by a lot, and was fixed no cost to me (not even shipping), they even answered the phone, and my GP100 loose grip was an easy fix for me. They are 2/3 the price too. Not a handgun, but Henry is phenomenal. I'm looking to get another, I can't speak highly enough of the craftsmanship you get.

[iron brigade]

I was looking at buying the same revolver a few months ago, but ended up with a new Lipseys Ruger Blackhawk bisley in 44 special. Cost me $595 out the door. What a sweet revolver. The old S&W revolvers were nice and I have a S prefix 38 made 1948. The one in my avatar. Hope it all works out for you.

[Leadmelter]

I am starting to think revolvers are on their way out. They can make two plastic pistols for one revolver.
Leadmelter
MI

[megasupermagnum]

I am starting to think revolvers are on their way out. They can make two plastic pistols for one revolver.
Leadmelter
MI

Every gun shop owner I've talked to admits semi-autos dominate the market, but revolvers have seen a strong resurgence in the past couple years. They are no more gone than the 1911.

I really tried to like the blackhawk, but just couldn't get over the single action grip. At the risk of sounding like a wuss, 41 mag is about all I can shoot well, and I do not feel like I have any control over a single action grip with 41 magnum. I really should have considered the 44 special GP100 more, but just loved the old model 57. Oh well, it's not my only revolver. I've just got a bad feeling S&W would just send it back saying it's "in spec". I've been down that road before.

[Piedmont]

I would fire lap this one. You have nothing to lose. BTW it is my opinion you can get very close to a true measurement on a 5 groove by rolling the slug in your micrometer jaws. I cannot prove this but have done so many times and think I am within .001" of a true measurement. You will not get both a groove and bore measurement.

[murf205]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, this gun was purchased brand new in box, but I should have purchased an old one. The barrel is garbage, plain and simple, and needs to be replaced. I just hope I don't get the run around from S&W. It seems like you have to spend $2000 just to have a working handgun anymore.

I've had the cylinder throats reamed uniformly by a professional. I've tried to the slug the bore, but I can't do it accurately. Pushed all the way through, it measured .408, and I'm guessing there is a constriction. Normally 41 mags are .410" and don't vary much from that beyond normal tolerances. I've tried two cast bullets, both SWC's, sized .411" and .412" (just under throat diameter), as well as a remington 210 grain JSP and XTP hollow point. I've tried all kinds of powders, 700X, Blue dot, H110, AA #9, HS6, even blackpowder. Oddly, FFg blackpowder with a SWC probably gave the best groups of anything at about 4". All shooting done off sandbags. I'm not a great handgun shooter, but 1 1/2" at 25 yards is no problem at all with any other of my handguns.

Not to sound like a ding dong, but Alliant has had that warning about blue dot for at least 10 years now, and when questioned, they have never been able to reproduce any of the problems in the lab. They just got so many reports of problems, they decided to put out the warning. The only cold weather spiking I have heard about happened when it was -30F or lower, and I'm not even sure how credible the source is. I've personally ran these over the chronograph over the winter in -10F, and while the velocity had dropped, they were still very consistent.

Blue Dot has my favorite 41 mag powder a looong time. Never had any problems as long as I stayed within any reasonable guidelines and the accuracy was better than any other powder I tried. I never tried it below -30 and don't intend to. I have a "Hillary Hole" model 24 SW and it shoots ok, but not nearly as well as my 1932 Hand Ejector 44 spl. The wood stocks on the New S&W's are a bit too thin for me anyway. C'mon Smith and Wesson, you can do better than this. If the factory will not help you, like Piedmont said, fire lapping probably wont hurt.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Very disappointing to hear about your new Smith & Wesson.

I shot a friends Smith & Wesson Model 28 that Clements re-calibrated to .44 Special. Probably the most accurate handgun I’ve ever shot. That man carries a custom Ruger single action most regularly.

I favor the grip and feel of the single action revolver by Colt’s. Colt’s almost always have oversized cylinders however I did buy a new one recently with proper cylinder throats. I had a ‘smith cut me a new cylinder with proper dimensions. Both the custom cylinder and the factory cylinder in proper dimensions did not shoot any better than my other dozen Colt’s with oversized cylinders. YMMV

I am convinced that a custom revolver is superior to a factory product.

Sorry to hear Smith and Wesson has once again gone into a downhill slide. In the 1980’s when I started actually having money to buy guns the Smith & Wessons were no good. The Colt’s is no stranger to problems too. Smith and Wesson came out of that decline in the early 80’s and now here we are again.

I had a 1963 Model 29, absolutely beautiful but it shot just OK, not fantastic. I just picked up an old K38 and so far it just shoots OK.

Honestly there’s no substitute for taking an old Model 28 / 27 and having a professional recalibrating it.

[9.3X62AL]

S&W will need to do A LOT BETTER than the recent products I have examined from that maker, if they expect me to spend money with them again. The prices of existing pre-MIM S&Ws keep rising for a reason. My newest S&W was made in 1990.

[megasupermagnum]

S&W will need to do A LOT BETTER than the recent products I have examined from that maker, if they expect me to spend money with them again. The prices of existing pre-MIM S&Ws keep rising for a reason. My newest S&W was made in 1990.

I say I wish I had gone with a good used 57, it took me a while just to choke down the $900 for the new one. I probably would never pay more for used of any product. That's just not right, unless it's discontinued or has otherwise collectable value. I see where guys are coming from with the price, but I just don't see why a 1970/80/90's N-frame would be collectable. The old recessed cylinder and pinned barrel sure.

If I had the money, everything I own would be a custom job. I think it's a sad day when a $900 firearm (of any type or brand) needs to be modified, or else it is just a fancy noise maker.

My advice, if you are looking for a hunting revolver, go to another brand.

[glockfan]

seems like the real problem withS&W revos is that,you can get a winer,but next to it there's a lemon.it's really a hit or miss with them since a decade or so.

that is the why i'd rather own a ruger revolver by many lenght ; red hawk or GP100. you know what to expect ,and rugers delivers as intended.....

[megasupermagnum]

If they had a blued redhawk 41 mag in a 5"-7.5" barrel, I would be all over it. I hate stainless for hunting, might as well carry around a mirror. I think the GP100 is awesome, I will probably own more in the future, but the 48 ounce N-frame is as light as I would like with a 41. The super redhawks shoot great, but they have to be the ugliest chunk of hardware out there. I try to be unbiased, but I am becoming a strong Ruger fan.

[am44mag]

I swore I'd never buy a Smith with a Hillary hole, and now it appears my instinct was correct. I hope things work out after the 4th.

My 629-6 has the dreaded Hillary hole, and honestly it's as close as you can get to perfection in a handgun. Accurate, beautiful, and the kind of trigger you have dreams about.

I think he just got a bad gun.

[megasupermagnum]

My 629-6 has the dreaded Hillary hole, and honestly it's as close as you can get to perfection in a handgun. Accurate, beautiful, and the kind of trigger you have dreams about.

I think he just got a bad gun.

If it was only inaccurate, or only minor flaws, sure. It's not though. I don't care about the internal lock at all. Mine is not accurate, mine is not beautiful, and my trigger is not great. The trigger is plenty acceptable by my standards, but it's average at best. My GP100 trigger is better, and it was $250 cheaper. You can put some fault on me for buying it in he first place, but I am willing to overlook imperfections for accuracy. There is really nothing good about it. If I fire lapped the barrel, did a trigger job, touched up the bluing, along with the grip replacement and throat reaming already done, I might have something.

[roysha]

Well it is a 41 MAG. That alone is enough of a problem.

It seems to me the answer is quite simple. Sell the S&W and buy the ruger you seem to be so enthralled with.

Sometimes a gun is just no good. With over 60 years of gun ownership I can attest to that fact. It has happened to me with many brands and types of firearms. There may be no discernable difference among seemingly identical guns but one will be superior and another will be a high dollar noise maker, no matter how much money and effort is expended on it.

[9.3X62AL]

I have owned 3 Ruger Blackhawks in 41 Magnum. In all 3, the throat and barrel groove dimensions were PERFECT, and all three revolvers shot wonderfully. Much less fuss & bother than Ruger 44s and 45s, which can be dimensionally-poetic, let's just say. Doug Guy can square things away if need be, but the 41s I have had--both Ruger and S&W--were dimensioned correctly IME. If there is a down-side to the 41 revolvers, it has been a paucity of bullet designs and/or scarcity of brass/ammo. With the semi-custom mouldmakers now in business, getting exactly what a shooter wants in 41 caliber is a lot less work than it once was.

[rfd]

it's all about the money. to make it, businesses of all stripes cut corners. them that put quality before their ROI have a tough row to hoe and may soon be out of business, or are forced to drastically increase prices as a trade off for real Quality.

i had a '67 smith 14-2 .38spl that was nothing short of amazing ... and of course, dummy me, i sold it to a lucky friend a few years back. doh! 223163

223161

wanting another smith, but one that was more, er, "portable", i bought a model 60 j-frame last year (yeah, with the libtard hole). but with about 450 of my rounds through it, so far, so good. maybe i got lucky?

223162

[bedbugbilly]

To start, I'm not bashing S & W - I own several of their M & P Shields and like them a lot.
BUT . . all of my lSmith wheel guns are "vintage" - back when they knew how to make a revolver. I have looked at new ones in the local gun stores and have walked away - sorry, but I'm just not impressed and like others, they can take the Hillary hole and . . . well you know what they can do with it.

A few years ago, I was looking for a Smith Model 36 snobby. I went in to one of the LGS - one who is noted for always charging MSRP - to see what they had in the used revolve section. I talked with one of the guys and he said they did[[n't have one but could order me one of their new "classics". I told him I wasn't in a hurry and I'd check back. In the meantime, I went to another LGS that I've purchased a lot of guns from and they had a pristine Model 36 in the case. They had just gotten it in and it was a "sock drawer gun". I snapped it up at $300 and was tickled pink. (It's one of my favorite carry guns). A couple of weeks later, the gun store I had gone to first called me and told me that they had just gotten in one of the new Model 36 classics. They said thhey had ordered it as they were sure I would want it. I stopped in and the guy took it out of the case. I asked how much? Te answer was $750 + tax which would have been an additional 6% I told him that I was going to pull my pistol out so he could look at it and that it was unloaded (I had emptied it before i went in to the store). I laid it down next to their new 36 and his eyes kind of popped. I told him to pick it up and look at it and then asked him which of the two she would buy. His answer was mine. He then asked what i had paid for it and when I told him, he just smiled and said that he didn't blame me and that he would have done the same thing as I did.

My point? The quality of that particular new 36 "classic" was terrible. I wasn't impressed with the blueing nor the quality - a number of machining marks left which should have not been present. I would go in once in a while and I always looked to see if the 36 was still in the case. It stayed there for close to two years before it disappeared.

Moral . . . they just don't make 'em like they used to. I'll take my old M & P revolvers over anything they make today. Some folks like what they offer now and that's fine - we all have our personal likes and dislikes. AS far as their semi-autos - I have no issue and would and, and probably will, buy more of them.

Sorry your new pistol is proving to be disappointing - for he price, the quality should be there. Thank the "bean counters" I think?

[murf205]

If they had a blued redhawk 41 mag in a 5"-7.5" barrel, I would be all over it. I hate stainless for hunting, might as well carry around a mirror. I think the GP100 is awesome, I will probably own more in the future, but the 48 ounce N-frame is as light as I would like with a 41. The super redhawks shoot great, but they have to be the ugliest chunk of hardware out there. I try to be unbiased, but I am becoming a strong Ruger fan.
I am complete agreement with you on the bright stainless so I ordered a can of Duracote from Midway and coasted my SRH to a flat/matte black.it is a pretty tough finish that a clutz like me can apply.

[FergusonTO35]

J-frames sell like mad around here and few people have any problems with them. My own 637 is a sweet piece and more accurate than I can hold. Seems like every gunmaker runs into problems when they try to make old hand-fitted designs with automated production. I think today's J-frames do well because the design and construction has been changed significantly for modern production methods. The classics really need old school craftsmanship to do well.

[megasupermagnum]

45 minutes on hold today, no answer. Still no email.

[Texas by God]

It may be slow, but I've found an old fashioned form letter quite effective in the past in these situations. I think it draws attention as a curiosity.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[9.3X62AL]

I am lusting in my heart for a S&W Model 48 x 6", and as luck would have it one of the local toy stores that Buckshot and I habitually infest has one on display--one of the current Classic Series examples.

The thing just doesn't look "right". The stock set looks wrong. The rear sight looks disproportional. The finish is "acceptable", but my much-fired Model 16-4 (1989-made) is far more lustrous, even after 30 years and lots of carry. I have tried to talk myself into it, and cannot brook its appearance. And with all of the horror stories about S&W revolvers--like this one, for example--I am not willing to roll the bones on a new S&W wheelgun. Not when I know Ruger can and will make it right if they slip up the first time.

[megasupermagnum]

I am lusting in my heart for a S&W Model 48 x 6", and as luck would have it one of the local toy stores that Buckshot and I habitually infest has one on display--one of the current Classic Series examples.

The thing just doesn't look "right". The stock set looks wrong. The rear sight looks disproportional. The finish is "acceptable", but my much-fired Model 16-4 (1989-made) is far more lustrous, even after 30 years and lots of carry. I have tried to talk myself into it, and cannot brook its appearance. And with all of the horror stories about S&W revolvers--like this one, for example--I am not willing to roll the bones on a new S&W wheelgun. Not when I know Ruger can and will make it right if they slip up the first time.

That is a good idea. I had guys telling me the same things before I bought mine, but I talked myself into it. Acceptable isn't good enough for a gun that costs this much, even if you don't get a lemon like I did. Unfortunately there are not many manufactures of full size double action revolvers. S&W and Ruger are about it, unless you go to Taurus. I always wished Magnum Research would come out with a double action, but knowing them, it would be some unruly 5 pound monster chambered in 45-70.

Another boneheaded move, which is 100% my fault, I had ordered a set of Herrett grips before I really tried the gun. I had shot it off hand plenty, and did not see a problem, only that the grips it came with were no good. Do as I say, not as I do.

I'm still not sure what will happen. Ideally S&W will eventually contact me, replace my barrel at no cost, and I'll have an accurate handgun and quit my belly aching.

[dogdoc]

My 57 classic is fine. Shoots jacketed bullets the best but decent with Lyman 410459. One inch 25 yard groups with some jacketed ammo and less than two with cast. No significant leading but shoot 300 or 400 jacketed before going to cast. Bluing and fit is great. Grips not the best. You must have a lemon. Screw hole on top strap near forcing cone directs blast on the cylinder on all newer smiths(last 20 years or so). I have many smiths from the 60s,70s and 80s and I find as many problems with those as the new ones. Especially 70s and 80s. I have been working with a 1983 smith 686 now purchased as new in the box. Large barrel cylinder gap and several small finish imperfections and slow timing. They have never been perfect. Just purchased a new 929 9mm. It is put together great.

[megasupermagnum]

No doubt I got a lemon. So they have known about the cylinder blasting for 20 years and never fixed it?

Sub-par grips (mine were even loose), so-so finish that self destructs on they cylinder, only as good as Ruger trigger, and tie it all together on an "classic" with an internal lock. Finish with a price tag hundreds of dollars more than the competition. Sounds great.

[JoeJames]

My 629-6 has the dreaded Hillary hole, and honestly it's as close as you can get to perfection in a handgun. Accurate, beautiful, and the kind of trigger you have dreams about.

I think he just got a bad gun.Good for you. I really wish that Smith had not bowed down to the anti-gunners so completely with the Hillary hole, but rather had just done like Ruger often does, and just issued a great big padlock with the gun that you can throw away.

[megasupermagnum]

Today I called S&W and just stayed on hold. I put the phone on speaker and started loading ammo. Eventually somebody actually answered. I don't know the exact time, but it was about 1 1/2 hours on hold. After a short conversation I got a shipping label, and I'll be sending the gun out tomorrow. They must just be swamped with defective firearms.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Good News that they are willing to have you send it in...as they should.
Now let's hope they make it right.

[9.3X62AL]

Today I called S&W and just stayed on hold. I put the phone on speaker and started loading ammo. Eventually somebody actually answered. I don't know the exact time, but it was about 1 1/2 hours on hold. After a short conversation I got a shipping label, and I'll be sending the gun out tomorrow. They must just be swamped with defective firearms.

Persistence FINALLY paid off, it seems. A customer really shouldn't have to resort to such lengths to obtain decent service, but you did what was necessary to achieve your goal. Good on ya. I hope the resolution to the issues is done to your satisfaction.

[megasupermagnum]

Persistence FINALLY paid off, it seems. A customer really shouldn't have to resort to such lengths to obtain decent service, but you did what was necessary to achieve your goal. Good on ya. I hope the resolution to the issues is done to your satisfaction.

While it's not good, I hope it was because of the holiday week.

It's not even close to my worst customer service wait. You southerners probably don't know much about ice fishing, but I had bought an Eskimo brand flip over shack for ice fishing, and the thing pretty much fell apart the first time I went to use it. I was on hold for at least an hour a day for a week straight (plus no email reply). I had actually prepared to drive to the factory in Wisconsin, when somebody gave me a number to somebody that worked there. They hand delivered the phone to customer service manager, and it was still a fight to get the thing replaced. The only reason I went with Eskimo in the first place was because of its good reputation with customer service.

It's no lie that I am a big Ruger fan, and this strengthens that even more, but it seems quality of quite a few brands is down this year. I was shooting recently with somebody that bought a brand new Glock 34. It could need a little more breaking in, but out of 10 or so kinds of ammo, none was very good. The Glock would put 3 almost touching at 25 yards, then the next one would go off 6" or more. He also had a 3" barrel Sig that was really impressive, put the Glock to shame, and wasn't far behind many of my good revolvers. I don't remember the SIG model, but he said something about it being a new model that had been recalled for the first runs. I've seen multiple examples recently of S&W's with problems. I had bought a new Mossberg 500 turkey model I think in january, and the rear sight wiggled terribly as to be useless.

[dogdoc]

And I thought I was the only one that ended up with problem guns. Misery likes a friend�� I have several I have sent back but I will say Smith made them right but the pain in *** to have to send them in is no fun. I hear problems with most brands but remember people with a problem are the ones that speak up. Hopefully most do not have problems and we do not hear about them. Once you get your 57 sorted out, you will like it and with modern metallurgy, I doubt you can shoot it enough to wear it out. I am shooting mine with everything from max to light. I will not baby the new ones. Got an 8 pound jug of 2400 to work through !

[megasupermagnum]

I was talking to the guy with a problem Glock 34, and it sounds like they are kind of gave him the run around. It seems he has to take it to a Glock armorer, just so he too can see it's bad. Once on the phone S&W gave me a shipping label no fuss. I do hate that all the brands only ship with Fedex, at least every brand I've ever had to return. I have to drive a minimum of 40 minutes to the nearest drop off, and I have no other reason to go to that city. Does anyone know if I can schedule a pickup with Fedex like I can UPS? Label says 2 day shipping.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I can't answer your FedEX question...but when my Henry Big Boy steel 41 mag needed some warranty repair, Henry sent a UPS pre-paid shipping label along with instructions on how to package the rifle. BTW, Henry has excellent warranty service.

[megasupermagnum]

I got my Henry in 327 federal, best $700 I ever spent. They are probably the best brand of firearm out there currently as far as value and they really listen to their customers. That was another reason I went with 41 mag, Henry 41 mag is a 1:18 twist, while the 44 mag is a slow 1:38. I have no idea why I'd need it, but knowing myself I'd always want the heavier bullets.

Henry is a good example of why I say my 57 is junk. Ignoring the major problem, for $900 the rest of the gun is just... meh. It's no classic like my dads 57-2, now that is a real gem. I've made worse purchases through, and if the gun comes back shooting good I'm sure I'll forget about it.

[mattw]

I own a bunch of Smiths, but I do not own any made after the Bill Clinton era. My late shooting bud had real issues with a couple of late model 38's and 357's that he decided he really needed... both went back and only one came back the other was replaced. It was a bad deal for him.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yeah, a levergun in a large bore pistol caliber just screams "please shoot heavy cast boolits"

I like my Henry (after they fixed it) just as much as my Marlin...but my Marlin is probably worth three times what I paid for the Henry.

[maglvr]

"New S&W 57-6 is JUNK"
No surprises there, they have been junk for many years now. They too will put the key in the door before long, and good riddance to them and their garbage!

[arlon]

I hope you have better service than I had with a 625-8 that shot patterns. They replaced the cylinder and it shot worse when I got it back than when I sent it. I refused to send it back again so I spent a day carefully hand honing out two very tight cylinders, polishing the crown and forcing cone. I got it shooting pretty decent but still not like some I've seen. It's acceptable now for my needs but I suspect it is also my last late model S&W revolver (semi-autos seem to fare better). And yes, I have about 30 pre lock S&Ws revolvers.

Since somewhere in the mid 50's I think S&W has always had issues getting cylinder bores done right. There have been a lot of gunsmiths that have made their livings fixing them. Best example would be the revolvers of the model 24/25 series.. There are just a lot of their guns over the years that were made with cylinder throats that were simply too big. As a caster I've spent a lot of time finding over sized moulds and dies to make bullets big enough to work in them. All of mine shoot pretty good now but a lot of them with over sized cylinders have been passed on to others to tinker with. No, it's not a new problem at S&W but with the improvement in machinery, the problem sure hasn't gotten any better as one might expect.

Best thing to do would be to show up with a box of pin gauges when you plan to buy a new revolver and try to find a good one (at least a uniform one). Also dental mirror and a set of strong reading glasses or magnifying lens of some sort to inspect the crown and forcing cone. Don't forget a good bore light to check the rifling. Basically you need to be your own inspector.

[megasupermagnum]

I hope you have better service than I had with a 625-8 that shot patterns. They replaced the cylinder and it shot worse when I got it back than when I sent it. I refused to send it back again so I spent a day carefully hand honing out two very tight cylinders, polishing the crown and forcing cone. I got it shooting pretty decent but still not like some I've seen. It's acceptable now for my needs but I suspect it is also my last late model S&W revolver (semi-autos seem to fare better). And yes, I have about 30 pre lock S&Ws revolvers.

Since somewhere in the mid 50's I think S&W has always had issues getting cylinder bores done right. There have been a lot of gunsmiths that have made their livings fixing them. Best example would be the revolvers of the model 24/25 series.. There are just a lot of their guns over the years that were made with cylinder throats that were simply too big. As a caster I've spent a lot of time finding over sized moulds and dies to make bullets big enough to work in them. All of mine shoot pretty good now but a lot of them with over sized cylinders have been passed on to others to tinker with. No, it's not a new problem at S&W but with the improvement in machinery, the problem sure hasn't gotten any better as one might expect.

Best thing to do would be to show up with a box of pin gauges when you plan to buy a new revolver and try to find a good one (at least a uniform one). Also dental mirror and a set of strong reading glasses or magnifying lens of some sort to inspect the crown and forcing cone. Don't forget a good bore light to check the rifling. Basically you need to be your own inspector.

Well that's not good. I won't pretend to know exactly the problem with mine, but it does seem to be a barrel problem beyond just a simple thread choke. If I got a very tight patch in the bore, I could feel a waviness if that makes any sense, and where the barrel threads into the frame, instead of feeling normal, or a resistance, it felt like a hollow spot. Hopefully S&W comes to the same conclusion. You could not see any of this with a flashlight, so unless you had run a tight patch down the bore in the shop, you would never know until you shoot some paper. I sent mine off over a week ago and have yet to hear back. Fingers cross, but I pretty much wrote it off, maybe I'll see it before fall, but if not, I've got other handguns to use for deer hunting.

[arlon]

I have heard of S&Ws that have "tight" bores where they are threaded into the frame. Cylinder issues seem way more common than barrel problems though. I've never had a barrel issue from a factory defect, only rough crowns and forcing cones. Several of those over the years.

The new EDM bores worry me a little since I only shoot cast. I have not heard anything positive about EDM rifling and cast bullets (especially in magnums).

Hopefully they will get this one right.

[cajun shooter]

Well, I hate to hear your story as the 41 mag has been a favorite of mine since it's inception. My first was the Ruger 41 which I purchased at a local gun show. None of my friends had even heard of the 41 mag at the time. My own cast 210 SWC backed with 8 grs. of Unique would hit anything it was pointed at.
I read where you keep putting down on the S&W N-frame grip, That grip was designed by someone who knew nothing about the human anatomy. Look at your hand on the grip and tell me what it looks like, let's see at the top, the thumb reaches all the way around and overlaps and at the bottom, the pinky finger only makes it about halfway around. Competition shooters have laughed at these grips since S&W installed them. They are a waste of good wood and time making them. They are for presentation only, or a starter for the fireplace.
Competition shooters have thrown this grip away for years.
I would check my cylinder with a pin gauge, alignment with a range rod, cylinder gap, end-shake. Find another bbl, have it installed. Find a good shooting grip that you feel comfortable with, load some of the loads that I posted and go to the range. If your 57 still shoots buckshot looking targets, come down here to Louisiana and visit Marie Laveau at her grave site, so that she may remove the curse that has been put on you. Later David

[Drm50]

I just bought a 57 no dash P&R. Didn't really want it because it's nickel & 83/8". I bought with
Pachmeyers which have already been replaced with S&W targets. I guess I have the price of a
new one in it but it's 95%+ condition. If I sell it I won't be taking a loss. It is worth more to me
as trading stock to get 6"-61/2" Blue N P&Rs. The going rate for high condition guns is $1K around
here. I don't do Nickel, Stainless, fixed sights or 4" or less barrels and have no interest at all in
the new production. For shooting and workman ship there is S&Ws made after P&Rs that are still
fine revolvers. I have a certain dash that is a cut off for my interest but it's not the same on all
models. You have to educate yourself on S&W to make intelligent purchase. Irritating to me is
the pricing of S&Ws with not much relation to condition. N frames P&R seem to be $900 from the
get go. Another PIA is guys raping the Grips to sell separately. 9 out of 10 S&Ws I buy have
aftermarket grips. I deal in older S&Ws and even if it is nice gun, I'm not paying top price for it
with rubber grips. The Grip Mongers want $100 and up for S&W Target grips. I get most of mine
on line for about half that. Some don't like to buy a used gun. In handguns especially there are
the bulk of them that haven't seen 500rds through them and have never been carried. The ones
that have had much use are not hard to spot even with good finish. Look at recoil shield and the
forcing cone for signs of use, besides normal check on running gears. You can't go wrong with a
good P&R S&W. Actually for shooting purposes the S&Ws made post WW2 up until the key hole
models ( speaking in general ) were best guns S&W produced.

[jonp]

It seems like you have to spend $2000 just to have a working handgun anymore.

Ruger says otherwise


I really tried to like the blackhawk, but just couldn't get over the single action grip. At the risk of sounding like a wuss, 41 mag is about all I can shoot well, and I do not feel like I have any control over a single action grip with 41 magnum.

Try a Bisley

[jonp]

In SW's I restrict myself to used, older guns always blued as stainless or nickel doesn't interest me and in good condition. Nothing they make today can surpass them in either quality of build, blueing or accuracy.
For working handguns I buy Ruger's usually Blackhawks. Not the most refined but tough as nails and accurate enough for hunting and self defense.

[Drm50]

There is no finer SA revolver than a 3 screw Ruger Blackhawk. Like S&Ws the quality has suffered.
I hear as many complaints on Rugers as S&W, they may have better Customer Service. I pay
no interest to Ruger new models. If it has warning on barrel its to new for me, revolver or auto.
If you can shoot a single action well you will have no trouble with a DA, not visa versa.

[megasupermagnum]

Well, the unbelievable happened. My gun came back today in WORSE shape than when I sent it. Unlike any other company, there is almost no mention of what was actually done to the gun. All I have is that they re-cut my forcing cone, and shot it. They cut my forcing cone all right, it's about twice as long as before, and didn't fix jack squat. The barrel is still junk, the anomaly about 1" into the barrel is still there, and on top of that, there is a thread choke now to go along the the bad spot. Apparently they use cast ammo, because the barrel is full, end to end of lead. It almost looks like a smooth bore. I cleaned it 100% spotless before I sent it, the lead is not from me. I got out the lewis lead remover, and scrubbed away. That's when I realized they didn't actually fix anything. You can feel the bad spot in the barrel with a patch or the lead remover. This can not be fixed with fire lapping, it is beyond just a thread choke. I'm afraid how it will come back if I send it in again. They already had the barrel off, I told them it was bad, why would they dink around with cutting a longer forcing cone? And then to shoot it and make it clear as day it's not right? They did not send the target with, I'm sure it wasn't pretty. I guess it's time to get back on hold.

Worst gun I ever bought, from the worst company I ever dealt with. For the sake of sanity, anybody considering a new smith and wesson, stay away.:groner:

[glockfan]

disgusting.seriously. unacceptable.

[megasupermagnum]

Even better, after a good cleaning I was doing some dry firing, and the internal lock turned on by itself! Now I have to find the key, or take the gun apart. What a nightmare. I can be a bit of a complainer, but seriously, everything I have written in this thread is true. I wish I could sell it, I just couldn't in good conscience.

No answer from S&W as usual before I had to go to work.

[megasupermagnum]

I found the key, and it seems there is a spot where you can pull the key out before it is turned all the way. I'm sitting here, still waiting for S&W to pick up the phone. I got the barrel clean, I might just go shoot the thing.

[glockfan]

All I have is that they re-cut my forcing cone, and shot it. They cut my forcing cone all right, it's about twice as long as before, and didn't fix jack squat. The barrel is still junk, the anomaly about 1" into the barrel is still there, and on top of that, there is a thread choke now to go along the the bad spot. Apparently they use cast ammo, because the barrel is full, end to end of lead. It almost looks like a smooth bore. I cleaned it 100% spotless before I sent it, the lead is not from me. I got out the lewis lead remover, and scrubbed away. That's when I realized they didn't actually fix anything. You can feel the bad spot in the barrel with a patch or the lead remover.

the bolded parts are what would makes my anger toward them inflates 100%. can't believes they did that.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm sick of being on the phone, I just finished writing a letter, and will try the snail mail approach.

[dogdoc]

I would sell or trade it and cut my losses. You are never going to like it at this point and life is too short to get stressed out over a hobby like ours. Find an old Smith 57 or better yet a ruger redhawk and be happy. I have bad experiences with all of them at one time or another. I have had the least issues with ruger.

[oldlongbeard]

Sorry, ol man! I like to oldies.... another reason to keep it that way, I guess. My old .38 Special doesn't win any awards, but I like the "used" look, and it shoots well, and action is smooth like butter. Hope they get it fixed up well for you after all your troubles.

Greg in West Mitten

[Geezer in NH]

45 minutes on hold today, no answer. Still no email.
What is your FFL's input into the problem?

[megasupermagnum]

What is your FFL's input into the problem?

I purchased it from gallery of guns. They are supposed to have lifetime replacement, so it may be time to give them a call.

[Paul105]

Get in touch with Davidsons (or have your FFL do it - he'll have to sent the gun back anyway). I've used their warranty three times -- twice a new gun was sent the next day and the other time, the gun was sent to the Mfg for repair. Let Davidsons handle it -- much easier.

FWIW,

Paul

[megasupermagnum]

I still have not heard back from S&W either by email or phone, my letter has got to be there by now.

I called Davidsons, and this sounds like the way to go. They picked up the phone immediately, and it sounds like this can be worked out through the local FFL. I'll take it up there, and hopefully I can have a new gun sent to me.

[Steppenwolf]

Good luck megasupermagnum.

[jonp]

Last post almost 2 weeks old. Any recent news?

[megasupermagnum]

I took it to the FFL, and was met with deer in headlights. I explained the best I could, but neither of us was certain how to proceed with Davidsons. They were nice enough to hold it, and find out. I think it was Wednesday last week I got a call from Smith and Wesson. Luckly I got an extension number this time, and got an answer. After talking for a bit, I decided I would send it back to them for a second time. It sounds like there is a better gunsmith there, and with our back and forth, the barrel should be replaced. Just after that, I got a call from the FFL, and it sounds like they were ready to ship the gun off, but wanted to know for sure. I said I'd finally heard back from S&W, and would like to send it to them. S&W sent another shipping label, but the nearest Fedex is a long ways for me. The FFL offered to ship it, just bring in a box and the label. So that's where I'm at, I'm just about to box it up, and it should be sent out tomorrow.

[osteodoc08]

I had to send a 586 back to Smith for light primer strikes and requested they reblue it due to some scratches and poor bluing. They fixed it up right and it hasn’t missed a beat since. I hope your experience is the same this go around.

[LAH]

Sure hope this works out for you.

[megasupermagnum]

Boy they are taking their sweet time with this one. I called today, and was told it is just sitting in shipping. What a circus start to finish.

[dogdoc]

I am curious to hear what they ended up doing to it.

[glockfan]

Boy they are taking their sweet time with this one. I called today, and was told it is just sitting in shipping. What a circus start to finish.

not the best CS ever seen for sure.

[megasupermagnum]

So after I had written a letter, I got a call from Paul Remore, a customer service manager. I maintained contact with him for the second trip to the factory. I don't know the exact date I sent it, but S&W emailed me confirmation that they were working on it August 28th. I waited until the 14th when I wanted an update. Paul didn't answer his phone, but a lady answered, and looked it up. The gun had been sitting in shipping, waiting to be sent out. Today I got a voicemail from Paul, saying they had shot the gun, found it to be acceptable, and will send it out soon. I called back an hour later, no answer.

I honestly do not have the words, how do you even respond to that? It took them this long just to shoot the thing, some egghead signs his name to the target, and then it just sits in shipping? I can't wait to see how it shoots from a rest, and what S&W calls "acceptable". Either way I'm stuck with a $1000 gun that can only shoot jacketed bullets, and is only hunting accurate to 40 yards at best.

Without any options, maybe aggressive fire lapping would at least give me a fighting chance. The problem is plain as day, I don't know why S&W "gunsmiths" can't see it. If fire lapping could open up the first choke, maybe the ring just past that won't matter as much.

[glockfan]

Today I got a voicemail from Paul, saying they had shot the gun, found it to be acceptable,

ouff..this part doesn't instill great confidence in the end result...

[osteodoc08]

Call Davidson’s, get a return tag and get a new gun. Your LGS can ship it to them.

[OS OK]

Geeez...what a nightmare of a story here!

I've had a reproduction of a Smith No.3 in .45 Scofield...top break from their so-called custom shop...it had an enormous cylinder barrel gap, couldn't get any power down the barrel behind the cast & it needed the gap closed up, I thought by remounting the barrel closer to the cylinder but I'm no gunsmith.
I took it to the smith and he offered to send it back to the custom shop but explained that it couldn't be done the way they manufactured that piece.
So, I said that I wanted to trade it in on another revolver and that was the end of that. I took the hit on the trade but without any added aggravation from the bean counter S&W regime...too bad for them because eventually this is gonna bite them right where it hurts!
Sure am glad that I didn't try to deal with S&W because I don't have the patience that you do by a long shot!

[megasupermagnum]

Called Paul today, it turns out their standard at 25 yards is 3", and after trying multiple brands of ammo, got mine to pass. I can't even respond to that.

That right there tells you everything you need to know about Smith and Wesson.

I could try Davidson's again, at this point this gun is completely out for deer hunting this year.

[dogdoc]

Did they change the barrel? You have not allowed what they actually did to the gun. I assume you ask him when you talked to him? If it shot 3 inches or less at 25 yards for six shots, you may get much better accuracy with handloads. 2 inches or less at 25 yards for six is what strive for in my revolvers. Many loads will not do that well.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. They took the gun, and spent weeks trying ammo until they got one to pass the test. They did absolutely nothing to the gun, didn't even run a cleaning rod through it like I asked. If they had, it would have been so clear that it wasn't right.

If you do a search on "smith and wesson revolver ringed barrel" you will see this is actually a pretty common problem on new guns. It's not a thread choke, somehow they manufacture a low spot about where the barrel meets the frame. I do not have the proper tools to measure, but a slug ran all the way through measures about .408". A slug at the muzzle measures about .410", I don't trust down the the .0001" for 5 groove barrels, but I measured with a micrometer with an aluminum wrap around the slug. This tells me there is a mild choke right after the forcing cone, then a ring at least .411" (more than likely larger), before it chokes back down to .410" for the remainder of the barrel. I have no way to tell how long the ring is, maybe 1/4" long? When you run a snug cleaning patch through, it's smooth, then a very distinctive loose spot just before the frame, then getting very tight just before the forcing cone. There is absolutely no bulge on the outside of the barrel, it's only internal, it rolled off the assembly line this way.

It completely ruins any chance of cast bullet accuracy, and 3" at 25 yards just plain isn't good enough even if a single particular load can shoot that well. This is a hunting gun that MSRP is over $1000. To accept a hunting maximum range of 35-40 yards as normal is absolutely ludicrous when every other manufacturer can build handguns cheaper, and twice as accurate. Why even rifle the barrel at that point? I haven't told smith and wesson that I've been running some reloads through it, as it would void the warranty, but I have tried all kinds of handloads. I probably listed what I tried earlier in the thread. Maybe fire lapping to remove the choke might give me a chance. If I get rid of the choke, maybe the ring won't be detrimental. I've also looked into having a very deep throat cut.

[dogdoc]

I cannot believe they did not replace the barrel for you. The replaced a barrel on a 329 pd for me earlier this year. I hate you had this trouble as my 57-6 shoots great. I would trade it and get a Ruger . It may be painful but you could inquire on what they would charge for a new barrel. I did that when I sent my 329pd in and they replaced it free of charge.

[LUBEDUDE]

Wow, so sorry that you are going through this turmoil. Those employees must be desensitized that how much theirs guns cost the consumers. Would they personally put up with such ambivalence?

I concur with with others, my older S&W’s shoot great. For the past 20 years I have only bought used ones because I absolutely will not support any gun company that resides in an anti gun state. They should pick up shop and move just like Beretta did. It’s insane that any gun company would support a state that despises them.

That’s why I never bought a new Rohrbaugh when they were in business and in New York. It’s also why I haven’t bought a Kimber in 20 years. I used to be a HUGE supporter of them, another New York company, but no more.

[megasupermagnum]

Got the gun back today. Paul assured me the target was in the case. Here is what I got.

227711

Sorry if it's upside down. It's not out of focus, that's how it came. It's a copy on office paper, no mention of ammo used, how many shots, nothing. [smilie=b: The best I can tell, it's a 3 shot group about 2", maybe a little bigger. Maybe? How can you even tell?

Also notice the date. It took them that long to get it back to me.

I took it to the range with the ammo I've been waiting to try. On the first target you will see circled in orarnge Hornady 210 gr factory load, best group this gun has ever shot. That's 5 shots for about 3 3/8" . Circled in black is Federal 210 JHP, about 4 1/2". On the bottom was a handload with a Lee 195 grain SWC over Unique. I didn't bother to measure that one. The second target is the load that will group 3" or less at 50 yards in my dads model 57 (built in the early 80's), provided I do my part. It is a 225 grain SWC (keith copy) over bluedot. That shot 4 5/8" from this gun. All shots were at 25 yards off sandbags. This is typical of what I've seen, that group with the Hornady is the best yet, still not even close to acceptable for hunting though.

227712
227713


On top of that, they sent my gun back with a barrel fouled with lead again. It wasn't end to end this time, but I still had to get out the lewis lead remover before shooting it.

I tried calling Paul, no answer again.

[osteodoc08]

Did you ever call Davidson’s?

[RED BEAR]

the revolver was perfected about 100 years ago all they have done since is figure out how to make them cheaper.

[megasupermagnum]

Did you ever call Davidson’s?

I did, but decided to give S&W their second chance. I'll see if they will still do the exchange.

[osteodoc08]

I did, but decided to give S&W their second chance. I'll see if they will still do the exchange.



With the abysmal accuracy, that’s the route I would take. Unless you wanted to send it to a smith for a new Douglas barrel or similar.

[megasupermagnum]

I called Davidson's, they sure are nice to deal with. I dropped the gun off at the FFL, and they should do the exchange soon enough. It will be a long time before I consider buying another Smith and Wesson, but I will keep buying from gallery of guns for sure. At this rate I'll get a brand new gun before Paul even calls me back. I left him a message again. S&W need to get their head out of their rear ends. They sure made a loyal Ruger fan out of me.

[murf205]

I hope you have better luck with the new one. I have been wanting a 625 in 45acp but stories like this make me cringe at the thought of getting one that wont hit a bull in the butt. I sent a model 24 back because it was inaccurate (.428 throats) and they said it was within spec. Like Red Bear said, "all they have done is figure out how to make them cheaper"....if you call $900 cheap.

[megasupermagnum]

I've long held the opinion that the saying "you get what you pay for" is not true. I also differentiate between the words cheap and inexpensive. I love inexpensive guns, but I don't like cheap ones. Smith and Wesson is expensive and cheap.

Besides thinking 3" at 25 yards is ok for a hunting gun, the second most disturbing part of this is that not once did someone at S&W ever pick up the phone. I either had to leave a message, or wait on hold for an outrageous amount of time.

If you buy Smith and Wesson, make sure you buy it from somewhere willing to exchange it.

[RJM52]

I own 47 S&Ws...only three of which were made in this century and have them only because they weren't made before 2000....

As mega said...they made a loyal Ruger fan out of me...

[murf205]

I've long held the opinion that the saying "you get what you pay for" is not true. I also differentiate between the words cheap and inexpensive. I love inexpensive guns, but I don't like cheap ones. Smith and Wesson is expensive and cheap.

Besides thinking 3" at 25 yards is ok for a hunting gun, the second most disturbing part of this is that not once did someone at S&W ever pick up the phone. I either had to leave a message, or wait on hold for an outrageous amount of time.

If you buy Smith and Wesson, make sure you buy it from somewhere willing to exchange it.

I used to think the same way and that's the reason I bought a S&W Shield 9mm. My KelTec PF9 will shoot circles around it even tho the trigger on the KelTec is awful. It shoots 15yd groups 1/2 as big as the Smith. I know that you don't buy a belly gun for tight groups but it doesn't hurt to have an accurate pistol. I didn't set out to bash S&W but they did this to themselves starting with the ridiculous hole in the frame of their revolvers. There is a good reason that older Smiths bring the money they do.

[megasupermagnum]

I'll take some blame there. I asked before I bought this one, why do the older ones cost sometimes $500 MORE than brand new. People told me the older ones were better. I figured it was some kind of nostalgia thing with the hammer mounted firing pin and no internal lock or something. NOPE, the new ones just have a high rate of failure, and no factory support when you get a lemon.

[Tackleberry41]

Customer service no longer exists. Some ask, do they desensitize people to other peoples concerns? No they are paid not to care. Look at the world around us, no shortage of people doing questionable things. And exactly the sort companies are looking for to answer phones. Those who actually provide help do not last long. They need people who will lie to you without a thought. Its all based on the math. If they sell 100 pistols, and only 5 complain, who cares. Look at century arms, as bad as they are, they are still in business.

I guess the shield is just that sort of gun, it aint me, its just not very accurate. But like a snubnose 38, guess they figure who wants accuracy? And the few who complain, oh well. They can spend the cash to improve the guns to appease that small sliver of customers, or just not care if you buy it.

[dogdoc]

Glad Davidson’s is taking care of you but I got some bad news. You can get poor ones from any of the makers. You just got unlucky with the gun and the customer service people! I-have a 57-6 that shoots great and I have had good customer service with Smith so you cannot make broad generalizations accurately. But I understand how you feel after a bad experience . I had a horrible experience with a Ford 6 liter diesel and swore off fords and now have ram with a Cummins .
A Ruger redhawk 41 is on my short list as well but if you read the forums, people have problems with those too. I do hear rugers customer service is second to none.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[glockfan]

I'll take some blame there. I asked before I bought this one, why do the older ones cost sometimes $500 MORE than brand new. People told me the older ones were better. I figured it was some kind of nostalgia thing with the hammer mounted firing pin and no internal lock or something. NOPE, the new ones just have a high rate of failure, and no factory support when you get a lemon.

one thing is for sure. smith and wesson rate of lemon is higher than it has ever been. the number of shooters i hear complaining about lack of accuracy,bad timing,random chambers's diameter all around the barrel, bad spacing between barrel's face to frame, irregular riflings and whatnot is astounding....even ,some guns exiting their supposed performance center ,are far from perfect.

[megasupermagnum]

Glad Davidson’s is taking care of you but I got some bad news. You can get poor ones from any of the makers. You just got unlucky with the gun and the customer service people! I-have a 57-6 that shoots great and I have had good customer service with Smith so you cannot make broad generalizations accurately. But I understand how you feel after a bad experience . I had a horrible experience with a Ford 6 liter diesel and swore off fords and now have ram with a Cummins .
A Ruger redhawk 41 is on my short list as well but if you read the forums, people have problems with those too. I do hear rugers customer service is second to none.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No doubt about it, but I've got I think 5 ruger revolvers, family members have countless others. I can't think of one time they had a problem. The worst I had was a fixed sight LCR that shot to the right, quick phone call and a week and a half later I got it back, problem solved. This 57-6 has had two chances now over 3-4 months with multiple people, even a letter to the head of customer service, and they still can't get it right. That's not a fluke, they just plain blow. Even now, I'm still waiting for a call back from Paul Remore (If I'm spelling that right), I've left two messages now.

And the Ford 6.0 power stroke diesel did suck. Guys talk about how to fix them... or you can just buy something else that actually works like you did.

[rintinglen]

You can swear by Rugers if that is your belief based on your experience, but 3 out of 6 Rugers purchased by me between 2012 and 2017 had to go back. My 308 Ruger American would not even chamber a 308 round . The difference between S&W and Ruger lies in the customer service. Ruger is far better, but then, they have to be to stay in business.

[megasupermagnum]

Just confirmed, I will be getting a brand new handgun, and it will be here early next week. I have to pay shipping, which is completely reasonable. That ladies and gentleman, is service!

Still no answer with Paul. It looks like I'll have to write another letter to let them know how screwed up the customer service is. Maybe addressed to "President of Smith and Wesson"?

[9.3X62AL]

I haven't gambled on a new S&W so far. My newest example of that make is about 20 years old, and the second-newest was made c. 1990. Both are superb sidearms.

My view is that to a large degree S&W has lost its way, and this is not the first time the company has done so. At the prices being asked for their revolvers, I think a customer has a right to expect a reliable, accurate, and mechanically-sound wheelgun. In too many instances, S&W has failed miserably to meet this standard. I am not going to gamble $1000 on a new S&W revolver--I will find an older example built correctly, or (more likely) buy a Ruger revolver and finish building it if necessary.

I am hoping that the O/P's replacement revolver is a decent example.

[osteodoc08]

Let us know how the new one shoots and glad Davidson’s was easy to deal with

[megasupermagnum]

I picked up the new gun today. If it's just light rain tomorrow, I'll go and shoot it, but it looks like it may be pouring for the next two days. I looked this one over very carefully. The last one must have been built 4:28 Friday afternoon. This new one the stamp is straight, no strange scratches on the muzzle, the cylinder locks up surprisingly tight. I'll run a cleaning rod through it when I get home, but I can't see any telltale of the strange ring in the barrel the last one had. I measured the cylinder throats, they are a tight .410", just like the last one. What I mean is a .410" pin gauge fits with light resistance, but would fall through from gravity, a .411" will not even start. I did not slug the bore yet, but I will be shooting factory ammo until I confirm this one is capable of accuracy. The rifling must be deep. A .399" pin gauge fits very snug in the muzzle, but will not pass. A .398" will fit, and slide clear through the barrel. No thread choke, thankfully. I'm happy, this one is clearly built better than the last. I never did get a call back from Paul, he knows he messed up.

[osteodoc08]

I picked up the new gun today. If it's just light rain tomorrow, I'll go and shoot it, but it looks like it may be pouring for the next two days. I looked this one over very carefully. The last one must have been built 4:28 Friday afternoon. This new one the stamp is straight, no strange scratches on the muzzle, the cylinder locks up surprisingly tight. I'll run a cleaning rod through it when I get home, but I can't see any telltale of the strange ring in the barrel the last one had. I measured the cylinder throats, they are a tight .410", just like the last one. What I mean is a .410" pin gauge fits with light resistance, but would fall through from gravity, a .411" will not even start. I did not slug the bore yet, but I will be shooting factory ammo until I confirm this one is capable of accuracy. The rifling must be deep. A .399" pin gauge fits very snug in the muzzle, but will not pass. A .398" will fit, and slide clear through the barrel. No thread choke, thankfully. I'm happy, this one is clearly built better than the last. I never did get a call back from Paul, he knows he messed up.

Glad Davidson’s came through for you! Let us know how it shoots.

[megasupermagnum]

It was raining, but I went anyway. I was shooting Federal 210 grain JHP factory ammo. The first 6 shot were from an oiled bore at 25 yards, went into about 2.5". I tried some Lee 195 grain SWC and Unique, but I think they are too undersized. The first three shots were touching, then the next 3 were flyers. There is mild leading in the bore. The next 6 shots with the Federal's were on the same paper as the SWC's, and they either went about 1.5" or 2". I couldn't make out which holes were which. I was reasonably pleased, and tried the final 8 shots at 50 yards. I was very happy to find 8 shots right at 3". That's about as good as any handgun I have shoots. Nothing wrong with this gun.
228525

[osteodoc08]

That’s some fine shooting with iron sights at 50 yards in my book. Glad you got a good one.

My go to load for 41 Mag is 7gr 231 and any 210-230gr boolit. This has worked well in all my 41 wheelguns

[Idaho45guy]

Customer service no longer exists. Some ask, do they desensitize people to other peoples concerns? No they are paid not to care. Look at the world around us, no shortage of people doing questionable things. And exactly the sort companies are looking for to answer phones. Those who actually provide help do not last long. They need people who will lie to you without a thought. Its all based on the math. If they sell 100 pistols, and only 5 complain, who cares. Look at century arms, as bad as they are, they are still in business.

I guess the shield is just that sort of gun, it aint me, its just not very accurate. But like a snubnose 38, guess they figure who wants accuracy? And the few who complain, oh well. They can spend the cash to improve the guns to appease that small sliver of customers, or just not care if you buy it.

My Shield purchased two years ago was the PC 9mm version and grouped about 12" at 25yds.
Inspected the barrel and it had a disturbing flaw.
228544
Called S&W and got the run around. Finally agreed to look at it. Took them two months to return it, dirty, with a different barrel with a Nick in the crown.

Swore off S&W for awhile. Just ordered an M&P40 Compact with night sights for under $300. Hopefully it will not be a lemon.

If S&W screws me again, then the gloves are off.

[megasupermagnum]

I got home today, and tried to oil the gun. I ran a couple oil patches down the bore, and noticed a bad rattle. I turned it over, and the cylinder came off in my hands.[smilie=b:

You have got to be ****ting me, for ****s sake Smith and Wesson, can't you guys put together a dang firearm!!![smilie=b:

This gun has 26 rounds through it. Maybe try davidson's for another replacement, and just sell it right away? Even if the 3rd one is good, I'll never trust it again.

I did not remove the screw, the cylinder just fell out the front. In the second picture you can see the ding, the screw must be too short.

228553

228554

[Idaho45guy]

Wow! Was S&W bought out by Remington??

[glockfan]

omg!!!

smith and wesson? never again.

[slughammer]

"I did not remove the screw, the cylinder just fell out the front. In the second picture you can see the ding, the screw must be too short."

That screw is probably the new style with a spring loaded plunger. (Doesn't require any fitting from them). I popped the yoke from my "Classic Series" Model 18. IIRC S&W sent me a new screw. (I don't remember if that fixed it or if I did something else. It's been a few years.)

[lefty o]

Wow! Was S&W bought out by Remington??

even remingturd isnt that bad. lol sorry for the OP, if a company can t get it right the majority of the time they should just close the doors.

[dogdoc]

Unbelievable ! Check the spring loaded screw but that is pathetic

[megasupermagnum]

At least it will be 100% out of my life now. I dropped it off at the gun shop, and a new one will be here soon enough.

I won't even shoot the new one. There might be just enough time, I can sell it to someone wanting to use it deer hunting. NIB, with an extra set of Altamont grips, I hope it sells fast.

I'm not sure what to do with the custom Herret grips. Either put them on a shelf to forget, or maybe a Christmas gift. I should call them to see if maybe they would give me a discount on another set if I return this one.

[megasupermagnum]

Unbelievable ! Check the spring loaded screw but that is pathetic

I don't remember the screw being spring loaded. The only thing holding the cylinder crane on is the one screw above the trigger. It has a stud that I would think should stick a good ways into that groove. The picture makes the scratch look deeper than it is, I'm not kidding, there was only a hair holding that thing on. A box of ammo was all it took to wreck it. The screw wasn't loose either. I didn't take it out. I just put my cleaning rod away, put the frame and cylinder pieces in the plastic box, and today took it straight to the store. I've had enough.

[dogdoc]

Horrible luck although the problem was likely just a defective plunger loaded side plate screw. A simple fix but not one you should have perform on a new gun. I understand your frustration. I have a new performance center gun I am sending back for issues next week but most of the smiths I have purchased in the last few years have been fine. We will see if they give me the run around like you. I think all the manufacturers are weak on quality control. I read a lot of problems with Ruger too.But to be honest , I remember a bunch of problems back in 1970s and 1980s too and I have a lot from those eras so I think this is nothing new. I think nostalgia clouds our memory’s and we forget all the problems that were there in earlier times. I am not happy but at least ok if the manufacturers make it right.

[RJM52]

I have been following this and it is really a sad story.... I was even about to tell you not to shoot the one you picked up and dump it but was too late... #3 will apparently be going down the road. Wonder what Davidson's does with all their returns like this...

If you really want a S&W .41 Magnum, find a clean used one... There are lots of them out there that have few rounds through them that come up for sale on the auction sites all the time. I have 57s, 58s and 657s made from 1964 to 1999 and all are fantastic shooters...

Bob

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Horrible luck although the problem was likely just a defective plunger loaded side plate screw. A simple fix but not one you should have perform on a new gun. I understand your frustration. I have a new performance center gun I am sending back for issues next week but most of the smiths I have purchased in the last few years have been fine. We will see if they give me the run around like you. I think all the manufacturers are weak on quality control. I read a lot of problems with Ruger too.But to be honest , I remember a bunch of problems back in 1970s and 1980s too and I have a lot from those eras so I think this is nothing new. I think nostalgia clouds our memory’s and we forget all the problems that were there in earlier times. I am not happy but at least ok if the manufacturers make it right.

Some years ago, I bought a unfired S&W Model 25-3 125th Anniversary Commemorative in presentation box (made in 1977?), 45 colt. It was beautiful, but had WAAAAY oversized throats, like .455 and they each varied more than they should. I re-sold it soon after finding that out.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm sure it was just a screw. I kind of wish I had asked for repair instead, as this one shot well. I really hope the person who buys the next gets a good one. I'm willing to take a hit at this point just to get rid of it. Nobody I know was interested so far. I'll post it online when I have it in hand.

I still think the old 57's are overpriced. It's clear to me it's worth it now, but I'm not about to drop that kind of money when just a little more I can have a custom built. I've got one mold for 41, 2 for 44, and reload for both. If I decide to go 44 mag, It would more than likely be the blued 5.5" redhawk. I've come to prefer the 41 mag though. More than likely the next one will be the 6.5" Blackhawk.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

I still think the old 57's are overpriced.
I agree, and am glad the two I own were purchased when they were valued under $1k
BUT...Be patient, while I don't think the 'online' prices will go down much for older nice 57 and 657 and 58,
I do think, that since there is a GOP president and there are less people buying any guns in general, and since 41s have a smaller audience to begin with, I bet you are likely to find a deal at a gunshow or smaller gun shop that consigns, the deals are out there, but you gotta search, and it may take a while. Last month at the Hutchinson gunshow, I was 5 minutes late for a Nice looking older Mod 10, priced at $438, I watched the buyer offer $400 and get it from a private seller.

[bosterr]

When I saw your pic of the crane and especially where the screw engages it, I knew it looked different than any of my S&W's. I removed the crane and cylinder from one of my 686s. Mine has a groove cut the entire diameter where the screw engages it. Yours looks like it has a slot milled into it. That may not mean a thing, but could be an effort of the bean counters to save a nickel in the process in machining. The screw in my guns have an un-threaded portion at the tip that engages said groove. Is it possible the slot isn't quite where it needed to be and sheared off the end of the screw and allow the crane to slide off? I've bought these crane screws from Brownells in the past. Is your return process too far along to think about just replacing the screw that could be too short? I thought your target with the second gun was pretty good and maybe it's a keeper.

[alamogunr]

When I saw your pic of the crane and especially where the screw engages it, I knew it looked different than any of my S&W's. I removed the crane and cylinder from one of my 686s. Mine has a groove cut the entire diameter where the screw engages it. Yours looks like it has a slot milled into it. That may not mean a thing, but could be an effort of the bean counters to save a nickel in the process in machining. The screw in my guns have an un-threaded portion at the tip that engages said groove. Is it possible the slot isn't quite where it needed to be and sheared off the end of the screw and allow the crane to slide off? I've bought these crane screws from Brownells in the past. Is your return process too far along to think about just replacing the screw that could be too short? I thought your target with the second gun was pretty good and maybe it's a keeper.

I see this(highlight) statement all the time on firearm sites. I worked as a manufacturing engineer for almost my whole career and never had any input from accounting(bean counters) on such things. We were always encouraged to try different processes to save $$, but never forced. Over the years I can remember a few mistakes being made in processes but they were almost always discovered in testing. I had one get out and customers complained about it and we changed it immediately. That was one of the few times that we tried to save money without improving the product.

Have we ever stopped to think that firearms manufacturers have a customer base that demands perfection at a cheap price?
I'm not immune to this thinking either.

[slughammer]

Two different styles of screws that I've seen. Pretty sure there was a third style with a straight pin.

If the gun has a V shaped groove in the yoke, then it takes the V shaped spring loaded screw.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/3fd3c67c52096cdc23f037ce15396131.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/92777161f4bb7362ce261ec75632a8da.jpg

[jaguarxk120]

It's a sad state when a gun company can't make a quality product.

Years ago (1940's) Ford Motor Co. was making one B-24 flying fortress every 63 min. and every one flew.
They served in three theaters of war.

And now our manufacturing plants can not make a revolver that will stay together.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Well, on the other hand, imagine that this was someones' self-defense weapon, and after one cylinder fired they had to reload - And the cylinder fell out like that. There're REASONS we ask for perfection, another reason being that if the gun blows up in our face it's going to HURT. Neither of those two possible outcomes is acceptable to any of us, I suspect?

[Idaho45guy]

Well, on the other hand, imagine that this was someones' self-defense weapon, and after one cylinder fired they had to reload - And the cylinder fell out like that. There're REASONS we ask for perfection, another reason being that if the gun blows up in our face it's going to HURT. Neither of those two possible outcomes is acceptable to any of us, I suspect?

Exactly! Self-defense firearms manufacturers are producing products that must be 100% reliable due to the stakes being so high.

When Sig knowingly released a pistol that they knew had the potential to kill or wound the police officers and soldiers that accidentally dropped it, I lost any respect I had for that company.

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, I recognize that spring loaded screw from the first gun. I had no idea until now it was spring loaded though. The second gun is already on its way to Davidson's.

[Idaho45guy]

My new S&W M&P40c arrived today and so far, appears to be perfect. This thread and my previous S&W purchase had me nervous.

[megasupermagnum]

My new S&W M&P40c arrived today and so far, appears to be perfect. This thread and my previous S&W purchase had me nervous.

That's good, I haven't heard all that much bad about their semi-auto's.

[TheGrimReaper]

I've read the finish on the NEW revolvers is junk. This is scary and sad. I am a S&W man and can't understand why they would let this by.

[Idaho45guy]

My new M&P40c is not perfect. Initial range testing at 25yds provided horrific 5-shot groups of 9" using Hornady Critical Defense ammo. My reloads shrunk it down to 4". Still not acceptable, to me.

I ordered a new S&W factory barrel from Midway to see if that helped and it arrived in the factory sealed packaging rusted. S&W is no longer a viable manufacturer to me at least.

229672

[Idaho45guy]

So would people say you should expect MORE quality from a current production Smith and Wesson revolver then you should expect from Taurus?

I know my new Taurus G2c that I bought for $199 has just as good fit and finish as my M&P and is more accurate...

229673

Of course, the trigger is awful and the slide finish is weak. But at half the price of a S&W...

[megasupermagnum]

im just curious because with my tuarus revolver the only issues I have with it are the rear sight blade did not come with a white outline, front sight no paint on it, grips were rather oiled up from shipping and took a lot of soapy water to get to "slightly tacky". and the cylinder release screw comes loose after a while.

I think all the companies have taken a hit in service, finish, and overall customer happiness.

Maybe a little, but Smith and Wesson is a train wreck. Monday they had called the store I had originally bought the gun from and was wondering why it had been sent back. Remember the original gun had been sent back to S&W, TWICE, first back in july, transferred to another FFL and sent to S&W, then exchanged, then exchanged again. Now it's a month later, the guns for sale, and S&W is just now wondering what's up with the original gun and called the wrong FFL? Now I'm confused, that FFL is confused. They have a bunch of monkeys running the show.

I've got hunting to do, but I'm looking for a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" blued 44 mag, 41 mag if it comes up. Maybe after a bankruptcy, and 15 years I'll try S&W again.

[fourarmed]

I have a M57 I bought new in the 70s. It shot OK, but nothing to brag about. A friend suggested we check the crown. He started in with his crown cutter, and he took at least 1/16 off one edge of the crown before the cutter touched the other side. Now it shoots like I always wanted it to. Even the old ones weren't always right.

A friend brought me his new M69 5-shot .44 that he bought to carry while gold panning in Alaska. The cylinder throats gauge .429 exactly, and the bore slugs .431 to .432. I was going to load some light cast boolit loads for him, but it hardly seems worth the effort. I suppose this was done to hold down pressure, assuming they really have any control over the dimensions. I'm starting to wonder.

[RJM52]

'I've got hunting to do, but I'm looking for a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" blued 44 mag, 41 mag if it comes up. Maybe after a bankruptcy, and 15 years I'll try S&W again."

Too bad as there was a 5.5" blue Redhawk that sold on GunBroker...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/788826668

Haven't seen a blue one i a long time...but the stainless ones come up pretty often...

[osteodoc08]

That was a good deal on that Redhawk for someone