lightning and computers

[shaper]

We have had some big storms roll through here lately. Trees down because of the high winds. More rain than we should get for a normal year. But what got me was the lightning. It killed two computers, two routers, one old screen, and one signal extender. Took a computer to the shop in Fort Payne Alabama. Best shop around here. He gave me the bad news about the mother board and offered a used computer. He knows I do not want windows 10. And it takes about three days to upload windows 7. So he tells me about a program he puts in a computer with 10 and it lets me use it just like 7. If I don't like it just bring it back. Well, I do like it. It runs just as if it was 7. So I bought 2 of the used computers with the program loaded. Not one problem yet.

[Kraschenbirn]

Sound like you need a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) with surge protection. I've got an APC unit that not only provides surge protection but also 10-15 minutes of back-up power (to save data and shut down running programs) in case electrical service goes down.

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/660678/APC-Back-UPS-ES-650VA-Battery/

Bill

[shaper]

Yeah I have one of those. Well not the exact same. It's one that is put in banks.

[docbrown]

UPS/surge protectors will help so long as it is not a direct hit. The clamping voltage is reached too fast in a direct hit for them to do much good, but on the bright side of it, direct hits are rare, so a UPS and surge protector are still good insurance, and some of the manufacturers even offer coverage above your insurance. You can also get a whole house surge arrestor from your power company, but again, it is not much help from a direct hit, but will definitely help protect your equipment from many hits.

Also, keep an eye on other electronic equipment for a few days. Sometimes a hit will cause an issue that does not manifest itself for a few days...or even longer.

[Gray Fox]

Had the same type of thing take out my new upright freezer with the digital controls in the door. It, too, had a mother board type controller that would have cost more to replace than a new freezer. I now have a white, insulated gun cabinet. GF

[mold maker]

Twice this year I've had damage from lightening. Both times it took over week to discover the extent, and it was less than the deductible. I have an old APC unit in line to protect my PC equipment and wide screen.
Figuring the third hit will be worse, I'm seeking more protection. Anyone know what I should look for? Who supplies the whole house units discussed? Expecting to find many worthless gadgets, what do I avoid? This area was prone to lightening strikes until a tall steeple and church was built across the street. It now takes a hit in most every bad storm.

[Smoke4320]

This may be a stupid question ..

would daisy chaining UPS's do any good
in other words have one plugged to the wall outlet then another one plugged to the protected outlet on the first UPS..
All your equipment then plugged to the 2nd UPS ?

[Geezer in NH]

Most surges are good for 1 or 2 surges at best IMHO When you hear the thunder shut the stuff down is the best.

[bangerjim]

Surge protectors and UPS’s are OK for MINOR line voltage fluctuations, brown-outs, and short outages. NOT lightning!!!!

Best protection for lightning is to turn the computer, router, printers, monitors competely off by UNPLUGING them completely!!!!!! Just turning off the power switch is no good....modern electronics (including most/all computers) are still ON even though the power supply switch is OFF. How do you thing remote controllers for TV and stuff work when the power is “OFF”!!!!!!

Plug everything into power strips and just flip the switch during storms. It will save you a lot of money! A direct strike could even jump the strip’s power switch!!!!! UPS’s will not protect you from lightning at all. They just burn up too!

You do NOT mess with lightning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL our power lines here are underground and I still do that.


Bangerjim

[bangerjim]

This may be a stupid question ..

would daisy chaining UPS's do any good
in other words have one plugged to the wall outlet then another one plugged to the protected outlet on the first UPS..
All your equipment then plugged to the 2nd UPS ?

Just buy a simple power strip, plug all your computer “stuff” into it, and plug it into the UPS. Then during a storm turn the strip power switch OFF. Only thing you will loose is possibley the UPS then.

Bangerjim

[MaryB]

If you have DSL your damage probably rode in on the phone line! When I was doing electronic repair it was the number one source of lightning damaged motherboards.

Pull the plugs! I did last night and it probably saved me from damage... had a LOT of close hits. Had so much lightning the air stunk of ozone.

[DCM]

Even with power strips it is best to unplug. The very small gap in a switch is no match for lightning.
Trying to use a switch that is rated for 300V max to stop many thousands of volts just doesn't work.
Look up you tube videos of high voltage switches operating, then think about ramping up that voltage.

[bangerjim]

Even with power strips it is best to unplug. The very small gap in a switch is no match for lightning.
Trying to use a switch that is rated for 300V max to stop many thousands of volts just doesn't work.
Look up you tube videos of high voltage switches operating, then think about ramping up that voltage.

Like I said in my post above........Lightning CAN jump the small gap in a power switch. What is on the other side of the switch (PC to cable router or DSL router) can creat the path to draw the lightning ACROSS the switch.

YES........best bet is UNPLUG completely at the wall!!!!! Especially if you live in an area with above power lines and lots of historical lightning strikes.

Bangerjim

[Traffer]

This may be a stupid question ..

would daisy chaining UPS's do any good
in other words have one plugged to the wall outlet then another one plugged to the protected outlet on the first UPS..
All your equipment then plugged to the 2nd UPS ?

There are surely people who know more that I about how surge protectors work. I was told or read that they CANNOT BE DAISY CHAINED. As soon as you plug one into the other it defeats the circuitry that does the protecting. ALSO. when the little light starts flickering the are going bad. When the light goes out the surge protection NO LONGER WORKS. They still work fine as power strips. But you cannot daisy chain even a bad one into a good one.
We don't have much problem with lightening here so I get the ones that have dead lights and use them for power strips ...I get them for about a buck apiece.

[Lloyd Smale]

had a power surge take out my dish receiver, ruin the wire and even the dish itself. the dish company came and replaced it all and told me they sold a surge protector for 40 bucks and would replace anything hurt by a surge that is plugged into it. So I bought one and have my tv, dvd player, dish receiver and computer plugged into it. I guess the trick will be if something happens getting them to actually pay!

[evoevil]

I have a APC UPS and I put a loose knot in power cord. It will blow out cord first

[Lloyd Smale]

Loose knot in the power cord wont do a thing. Not unless it will blow apart in milliseconds. by the time it will melt apart the surge is already done its damage. your also risking fire danger. If a copper cord does melt and blow out its throwing molten copper everywhere.

[gmsharps]

A UPS does nothing more than give you a little bit of time to shut down your computer gracefully before possible damage and loss of unsaved data. There is no UPS made that can stand a full blown lightning strike. As previous members have stated, the best defense is to unplug everything.
gmsharps

[jsizemore]

I have a APC UPS and I put a loose knot in power cord. It will blow out cord first

If the power company knew this "trick" none of us would have a problem.

[Rick Hodges]

I had lightning strike hit a tree in the back yard. It blew down the tree and into the ground exciting the buried power line that ran to my garage. The juice flowed around the power lines and not through them and blew out every incandescent bulb in the house, and my computer power supply. The noise was LOUD! and the coatings from the inside of the lightbulbs was floating all through the house like a fine snowfall. The lights were all off, they still shattered.
Afterwards I replaced the power supply and lightbulbs, had the place checked by an electrician and found the only other damage was to the three way switch to the garage.
No surge protector could take that.

[jsizemore]

Univ. of FL. is still experimenting with lightning strikes and power lines. They concluded that underground was worse then overhead. Could be that the cost of replacing underground costs more.

[bob208]

trhe only real protection for a lighting strick is to turn them off and unplug them routers too. we lost 2 routers one computer and a well pump

[David2011]

I used to work in an independent computer shop in an area prone to thunderstorms and lightning on the Galveston Bay side of Houston. Every time a thunderstorm came through we knew we would be inundated with repairs the next day. I'm not saying lightning can't hurt a computer through the power lines; that wold defy logic. What I do know is that I never saw a computer that was damaged through the electrical cables. The point if entry on every one I saw was a phone line. Yes, this was over 20 years ago before broadband was commonplace.

I remember one medical office that had a single computer on a modem and the entire office was on a coax peer-to-peer network. The lightning entered the modem and burned it up. Every computer in the office had something damaged but they were all repairable. One had a BB sized chunk blown out of the video chip but video was all on accessory boards back then. None of the computers needed a new motherboard.

When I had dialup Internet I mounted a phone wall jack where it was easy to access and I unplugged the phone line when I wasn't using it. The same would apply today to broadband appliances. If you have storms coming in disconnect the incoming cable or phone line. IMO that is more important than whether the computer is off or on. That said, even if it's off it's vulnerable if the AC line cord is plugged into an outlet.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Definitely - Disconnect the phone line (whether it's DSL or regular land line), Cable TV / 'Net cable, and power completely. If you HAVE to be on, at least use a laptop on 802.11 (and expect to regularly have to replace the switch/firewall/router if you stay on the 'Net.)

I have about 50-100 dead modems from the old Pentium 1 Laptop from when I lived out in the sticks, only got 22k or so (and it wasn't duplexed, before anyone mentions that) - Was halfway up a hill and lightning would strike at the top of the hill. Every time it'd hit we'd lose power, and pretty often we'd lose phone, if not there would be so much hum on the line that if I tried to ask the Telco to fix it they'd ask me to call back from another line. And they'd argue that there wasn't a problem, then a few hours later show up to repair it -rolls eyes-

I live in suburbia now, it has problems, definitely, but my 'Net speed is FAST. And I unplug if I have warning at all; Never lost hardware here to lightning.

[Newboy]

You can buy a TripLite power conditioner to protect your stuff. They will pay if you lose anything connected.

I have them on some stuff now. Refrigerator, freezer, stereo, computer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Lloyd Smale]

its called fused cutouts and lightning arrestors. Every transformer in the country has them. Like Rick said NOTHING is going to protect you against a full blown lightning strike. Ive seen it blow underground power lines right out of the ground, blow meters right off the wall and turn transformers into trash. Surge protectors protect against small surges in power. Lightning can have one billion volts. Biggest power lines in the country are 750,000. BIG DIFFERENCE! If you think a knot in a power cord will protect against that then my tshirt should protect me against a direct hit from a tank. Even a 138,000 volt surge would jump across the 12 inch gap in an open cutout fuse on a rural distribution transformer set up. Lightning is so powerful it jumps the gap from the clouds all the way to the ground! Lightning arrestors on distribution poles feed to ground through #6 solid wire. 138k lightning arrestors feed to ground through #2 copper. To be able to bleed the power of lighting to ground from a direct hit on a power pole would require wire bigger then the pole itself. think of that when you look at your little surge protector. PLEASE don't tie loose knots in your cords. All it will do is start fires.
If the power company knew this "trick" none of us would have a problem.

[RED BEAR]

i like the walmart 100 d dollar computers so when something happens i just throw it away. i used to put them together myself buying just the right mother board prosser and memory . just got tired of doing it and everyone i knew wanting me to fix there's so just went with the walmart ones they work great no muss no fuss.

[Hossfly]

We live out in the sticks at end of power line. We built house in 2001, with in 3 months lightning exploded the top of that pole with the transformer on it. Every new appliance in the new house with a board blew out. Power co. Offered a device installed under meter, cost $5.00 per month. If lightning goes thru it and stuff is burnt inside house, anything that’s plugged in, this co. Will replace. They give you about 3-4 surge protectors with unit to install on tv and computers. You cant stop lightning, its hit pole 3 more times, they paid for everything each time. $5.00 per month is cheap insurance. They have to send that devise off to confirm juice went thru, each time has come back with check to pay for all damage. I pay for that device rather than a welfare light.

[MaryB]

Whole house surge protectors you mount in the meter box or in the main panel(preferable outside in the meter box) will take a hit and shunt it to ground. Might still lose electronics in the house but you won't have a fire from wires exploding...

[Mr_Sheesh]

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCdIM67g3mY) shows a lightning bolt hitting a creek or small river - BOOM. That's not somewhere I'd want to be swimming in!

Hossfly - "welfare light"? I'm isolated enough to not have heard that term yet.

[JoeG52]

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCdIM67g3mY) shows a lightning bolt hitting a creek or small river - BOOM. That's not somewhere I'd want to be swimming in!

Hossfly - "welfare light"? I'm isolated enough to not have heard that term yet.

Lightning is very powerful, but it is not what happened in that video...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lightning-striking-a-river/

[Lloyd Smale]

Mary I was a lineman and put in my own power set up while at work. I put the standard lightning arrestor with the cutout on the pole and we had some surge protectors on the shelf at work that were meant to be put on the 120/240 side of the transformer. I put one there and put another in my meter socket. Figured what the heck they were free and nobody used them. I once asked one of the electrical engineers why they bought them. He laughed and said someone put on a good demonstation using a demo board powered by a 5000 volt transformer. He said they put some up and where they did take direct hits from lightning they didn't do a thing but make a bang when they blew (pretty violently) he told me to leave the one on the pole because it wasn't hurting anything but to take the one out of the meter socket because it could actually hurt someone when it blew. He said theres no such thing as a something that will absorb a full on lightning strike. Said there nothing but a false sense of security.

A surge protector is designed to blow AFTER to much current passes and trips it. It will absorb a surge of amperage like when you open your main and close it back in and all the things plugged into the protector try to start at the same time but NOT a hit of lightning. Like I said I went to a home once on a trouble call that took a direct hit to the pole by there house. It blew the arrestor on the pole. Blew the top off the transformer and blew the underground power going to the house right out of the ground for a 20 foot stretch and melted it in a number of places burning through the insulation trying to find ground and blew the meter and meter box right off the house. If you think a 30 dollar surge protector is going to help with something like that then a Kevlar vest should be adequate protection from a 5 inch naval gun.

Maybe a lighting hit 30 miles away from your house if your utility doesn't have there fuses coordinated properly and it somehow gets by two or three fuse locations and has a couple hundred grounded poles that in combination have enough of a path to ground to bleed most of it off and you only see a 20 volt spike in power for milliseconds and you have one good enough to react that quickly. there is nothing that man has invented that will reliably put a billion volts to ground instantaneously. And surely nothing that isn't 20 times the size of your meter box or entrance panel.

take a look sometime at the size of a lightning arrestor in a sub station. there as big as a man and ive seem them blown to pieces so small that youd need a vacuum cleaner to pick them up. Mount one up in your meter box and it MIGHT take a shot of lighting to ground but it would blow a hole in the side of your house a truck could drive through. People that haven't seen proof just don't understand how powerful lightning is. Think about it. A billion volts and 200,000 amps!
Whole house surge protectors you mount in the meter box or in the main panel(preferable outside in the meter box) will take a hit and shunt it to ground. Might still lose electronics in the house but you won't have a fire from wires exploding...

[BrassMagnet]

Twice this year I've had damage from lightening. Both times it took over week to discover the extent, and it was less than the deductible. I have an old APC unit in line to protect my PC equipment and wide screen.
Figuring the third hit will be worse, I'm seeking more protection. Anyone know what I should look for? Who supplies the whole house units discussed? Expecting to find many worthless gadgets, what do I avoid? This area was prone to lightening strikes until a tall steeple and church was built across the street. It now takes a hit in most every bad storm.

The least expense and the best protection is to tie your power cord in a figure eight knot.

[MaryB]

Mary I was a lineman and put in my own power set up while at work. I put the standard lightning arrestor with the cutout on the pole and we had some surge protectors on the shelf at work that were meant to be put on the 120/240 side of the transformer. I put one there and put another in my meter socket. Figured what the heck they were free and nobody used them. I once asked one of the electrical engineers why they bought them. He laughed and said someone put on a good demonstation using a demo board powered by a 5000 volt transformer. He said they put some up and where they did take direct hits from lightning they didn't do a thing but make a bang when they blew (pretty violently) he told me to leave the one on the pole because it wasn't hurting anything but to take the one out of the meter socket because it could actually hurt someone when it blew. He said theres no such thing as a something that will absorb a full on lightning strike. Said there nothing but a false sense of security.

A surge protector is designed to blow AFTER to much current passes and trips it. It will absorb a surge of amperage like when you open your main and close it back in and all the things plugged into the protector try to start at the same time but NOT a hit of lightning. Like I said I went to a home once on a trouble call that took a direct hit to the pole by there house. It blew the arrestor on the pole. Blew the top off the transformer and blew the underground power going to the house right out of the ground for a 20 foot stretch and melted it in a number of places burning through the insulation trying to find ground and blew the meter and meter box right off the house. If you think a 30 dollar surge protector is going to help with something like that then a Kevlar vest should be adequate protection from a 5 inch naval gun.

Maybe a lighting hit 30 miles away from your house if your utility doesn't have there fuses coordinated properly and it somehow gets by two or three fuse locations and has a couple hundred grounded poles that in combination have enough of a path to ground to bleed most of it off and you only see a 20 volt spike in power for milliseconds and you have one good enough to react that quickly. there is nothing that man has invented that will reliably put a billion volts to ground instantaneously. And surely nothing that isn't 20 times the size of your meter box or entrance panel.

take a look sometime at the size of a lightning arrestor in a sub station. there as big as a man and ive seem them blown to pieces so small that youd need a vacuum cleaner to pick them up. Mount one up in your meter box and it MIGHT take a shot of lighting to ground but it would blow a hole in the side of your house a truck could drive through. People that haven't seen proof just don't understand how powerful lightning is. Think about it. A billion volts and 200,000 amps!


Modern suppressers go dead short, not open. And it is for the near miss more than the direct hit. Say the tree in the yard takes a hit... the splash over hits the service to the house...and they activate in 4ms...

[Lloyd Smale]

power company arrestors do not go full ground. they have discs inside of them that overvoltage bleeds across and goes to ground. they are in parallel with the power line not in series. they will bleed small overcurrents to ground without blowing and shorting to ground. But they will often blow open though with a direct hit or near direct hit of lightning. Your not going to get an arrestor let alone the 6 solid copper wire that goes to ground to hold up to a full on or even a close hit of lightning. they have to have the ability to blow or that 6 solid wire stapled to the pole going to a ground rod would kill someone even close if it (and obviously it cant) stand up to even near the voltage of a lightning strike. Look at one once. Look at that 6 solid wire coming down the pole with a piece of plastic molding on it at ground level and tell me if you want to be near it when a billion volts try to go down it. Ive probably changed out a couple hundred blown lightning arrestors in my career. You are right that the ones you plug into in your house are protection against small surges of power. Don't expect them to protect your home against a hit right in your yard though and don't hold any illusions that there going to help a direct hit of lightning. Still the best cure for protecting your electronics and electrical devices from lightning is the same thing your dad did. UNPLUG IT till the storm is over. That doesn't mean hitting the little switch on your surge protector strip either. that means UNPLUG it from the wall. Like I said theres nothing made by man that you can buy for your house that will protect against a 10,000 volts let alone a billion.

[bob208]

we got hit july 4 took out phone lines and modem. we are switching to a satellite service they are coming tomorrow to hook us up. centerylink has a repair order for the end of the month. .

[bangerjim]

The least expense and the best protection is to tie your power cord in a figure eight knot.

Where in earth does this "knot" info come from?????????????? Why would a knot in a power cord stop a billion volts of static electricity? Please furnish proof and links.

Oh, I forgot, in some parts of the country, you can "cut down" on your electric usage by tying knots in the power cords to s--l---o----w down the electrons!

HA.....ha!

banger

[Hossfly]

Mr Sheesh, A welfare light, on utility pole, power co. Maintains it and you pay on monthly light bill. Like a street light in city.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Hossfly, aah, TY! I hadn't seen the term before.

[MaryB]

power company arrestors do not go full ground. they have discs inside of them that overvoltage bleeds across and goes to ground. they are in parallel with the power line not in series. they will bleed small overcurrents to ground without blowing and shorting to ground. But they will often blow open though with a direct hit or near direct hit of lightning. Your not going to get an arrestor let alone the 6 solid copper wire that goes to ground to hold up to a full on or even a close hit of lightning. they have to have the ability to blow or that 6 solid wire stapled to the pole going to a ground rod would kill someone even close if it (and obviously it cant) stand up to even near the voltage of a lightning strike. Look at one once. Look at that 6 solid wire coming down the pole with a piece of plastic molding on it at ground level and tell me if you want to be near it when a billion volts try to go down it. Ive probably changed out a couple hundred blown lightning arrestors in my career. You are right that the ones you plug into in your house are protection against small surges of power. Don't expect them to protect your home against a hit right in your yard though and don't hold any illusions that there going to help a direct hit of lightning. Still the best cure for protecting your electronics and electrical devices from lightning is the same thing your dad did. UNPLUG IT till the storm is over. That doesn't mean hitting the little switch on your surge protector strip either. that means UNPLUG it from the wall. Like I said theres nothing made by man that you can buy for your house that will protect against a 10,000 volts let alone a billion.

I don't use power company arrestors. I use EMP/military grade arrestors that I installed myself. I took a direct hit on one of my ham towers recently. No damage in the house from the AC lines. Some damage to a shortwave receiver that had a short 30' wire antenna connected. Splash over off the tower exploded a roof panel on the observatory. I have multiple ground rods in an X pattern that dissipated the hit. 2 antenna arrestors had to be replaced, and others had to have the arc plug replaced because it went dead short like it is supposed to. Tower is 30' from my service entrance.

The exposed bar in the roof panel is the aluminum frame. Inside had a hole burned where it jumped to the telescope pier that is 6' tall and grounded. That was from the splash over from the tower hit.

https://i.imgur.com/YKC5pqx.jpg

[Mr_Sheesh]

Wait, you reload + have a Ham Radio antenna farm AND an observatory? You need any help around the place? LOL

[MaryB]

LOL plus a huge garden, a wood shop, enough stuff to do work on cars...

[Mr_Sheesh]

Sigh, if only you had a metal shop too, LOL :) That's a good start and lots to keep you busy!

[MaryB]

Plus I brew beer...

[Mr_Sheesh]

Dark beer?

[bob208]

well am back. we are still with century-link. hughes net did not show up reschuled for Monday they did not show we called they said the installer was there and no body was home. I was working on the tractor all day in the driveway. find out the mex. did not even have the address even close.

[jsizemore]

No habla.

[MaryB]

Dark beer?

My ale is a brown ale... I have done some stouts..

[Boolit_Head]

Besides a UPS look into a whole house surge protector. The make devices that go on your incoming line that act like a old school fuse and sacrifice them selves in case of a surge. They have two or three legs so once it blows you can switch to another leg and get back up and running.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Mary, that'd do I'd think! Hmmmmm

Worst case you could use a device they used to use on CDC mainframes, among other things - You have a motor that drives a flywheel and an alternator; 60 Hz 240V in, and same out, with the added advantage that the output power won't have ANY chance of a lightning strike getting across that airgap from the motor to the alternator. It's not 100% efficient, but it's 100% safe, surge and lightning-wise.

[Handloader109]

Had a string of Christmas tree lights around my second story house in MS a couple of decades ago. Spring came, lightning hit it at front of house. Blew out over 2ft of the 2x8 rafter, ran along the lightstring, disintegrating it for over 50 ft, it then jumped to a telephone line that it was crossing (maybe 4-6" away), ran inside and killed phones answering machine and a couple of computers. Followed down the grounding rod at the phone box or it would have done more I expect. Nothing in the straight electrical side. Entered computer through modem. Was just over my deductable. And one of the reasons I don't buy Allstate insurance. Amazing stuff that lightning.

[MaryB]

Worst strike I saw was to a TV antenna in a 3 story house that had been converted to 3 apartments. Hit the mast, jumped through the roof leaving a 2x2 foot hole and went to the bathroom copper pipes underneath blowing pipes apart on the third floor flooding everything below it. Copper had pinholes all the way to the water meter in the basement... the TV antenna cable ran down the side of the house and vaporized leaving copper splatter all over. No ground wire on the mast(owner installed wrong)...

[Mr_Sheesh]

Christmas Lights mention reminds me of a situation I know - Friend has Diabetes and bad Neuropathy and has had some bad incidents where he needs an Ambulance; They live in the STICKS. They leave their outdoor Christmas Lights up all year - That circuit is on a switch that has two positions, one is "On" the other is "Flash" (and there's an "Off" position so you might call it a 3 position switch.) When he needs an Ambulance, if it's at night, they turn the lights on on "Flash" and it makes the Ambulance finding their place a LOT easier!

[bob208]

when I was welding. when a storm came through all the weldors would lay down the leads and walk away. last place I worked a bad storm and all of us maintenance guys would spend a day or two replacing wires motors panel boxes and more.

[Bad Water Bill]

When I was in Navy Electricians school they said that electricity travels at a speed of 286,000 miles PER SECOND.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and picture a billion volts going that fast and if you think a 100 dollar arrestor is going to stop it ive got a bridge!
When I was in Navy Electricians school they said that electricity travels at a speed of 286,000 miles PER SECOND.

[mold maker]

The idea that that amount of energy can flow through a tiny copper wire at that speed is mind-boggling, but it's a fact we can't deny.
While I understand the energy isn't contained within the wire, it follows its path like a train and its tracks.

[Lloyd Smale]

that's kind of the way I was taught. Dc flows through the entire wire cross section and ac flows mostly on the surface but keep in mind that most wire is made by weaving many strands together to make one conductor and the current flows on each of the strands in the wire. Not just on the surface of the od of the wire. that's whey when they went away from solid copper for distribution lines in favor of aluminum that is less conductive they did it with multiple strands of wire surrounding a steel core for strength. Its called skin effect heres a definition (not mine) Skin effect[edit]

The skin effect decreases the cross sectional area in which the current travels through the conductor as AC frequency increases. For alternating current, most (63%) of the electric current flows between the surface and the skin depth, δ, which depends on the frequency of the current and the electrical (conductivity) and magnetic properties of the conductor. This decreased area causes the resistance to rise due to the inverse relationship between resistance and conductor cross sectional area. The skin effect benefits the design, as it causes the current to be concentrated towards the low-resistivity aluminum on the outside of the conductor. To illustrate the impact of the skin effect, the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standard includes the conductivity of the steel core when calculating the DC and AC resistance of the conductor, but the (IEC) and The CSA Group standards do not.

The idea that that amount of energy can flow through a tiny copper wire at that speed is mind-boggling, but it's a fact we can't deny.
While I understand the energy isn't contained within the wire, it follows its path like a train and its tracks.

[MaryB]

yup and picture a billion volts going that fast and if you think a 100 dollar arrestor is going to stop it ive got a bridge!


Cell/TV/Radio towers take direct hits all the time and the surge suppressors stop it, this is a common spec on some: Max Surge 20 kA 8/20μs Waveform https://www.polyphaser.com/products/rf-surge-protection/is-b50hn-c2 They also make an 8MS EMP version(what I use on the back of the radios) with the other protector out in the grounding box so there is a double layer of protection.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

We have fiber-optic

[Lloyd Smale]

every see the ground grid put down around a cell tower? It sure isn't one or two 6 foot ground rods like you have for a typical home. I did my own for my home and have 8 ground rods and don't believe they would come close to handling a direct hit of lightning. By the way we installed power to a cell tower while I was working and a few months after it was built it took a hit of lighting and it fried almost all there electronics. Blew the fuse in our transformer and required us installing a new service to the tower. About the only thing that wasn't damaged was the tower and antenna and our transformer. A few years before that our local direct tv company had a main dish up high on a hill near town that took a hit and did the same. That time though it not only took out our service but our transformer too along with all of there gear. Mary I respect your knowledge on a number of things but I spent my life in the outside electrical world and saw what lightning can do. It sounds like your set up is better then most. Sounds like you put a lot of thought into it but don't think you have a step up on mother nature because ive seen her beat the best of equipment and engineers

Even high voltage transmission towers not hit by lightning can be scary. To work 365kv towers we had to wear a suit with steel fibers in it that put us at the same potential as the tower to prevent static shock that alone can kill. Once you get about half way up the tower Your hair stands up and even with the suit you get arcs off of tools ect to the tower. Keep in mind that those towers each have there own ground grid not just a ground rod and still have a static charge like that. Ive never worked 500kv or 765kv towers and to be truthful sure don't want to. Ever watch them worked by helicopter when the lineman on a platform has to slap a wire on to the conductor that puts the chopper in the same potential as the line because if they didn't just the static charge would kill the lineman .

Now take that 365kv or even 765k voltage and increase it to a billion. Those towers cant even bleed off all the static at those voltage levels let alone if a wire comes off the insulator and hits the pole. Unless you've seen it you cant imagine the power even 69kv lines have and that compared to lightning is like comparing an ant to a t-rex.
Cell/TV/Radio towers take direct hits all the time and the surge suppressors stop it, this is a common spec on some: Max Surge 20 kA 8/20μs Waveform https://www.polyphaser.com/products/rf-surge-protection/is-b50hn-c2 They also make an 8MS EMP version(what I use on the back of the radios) with the other protector out in the grounding box so there is a double layer of protection.

[Lloyd Smale]

223826 this is a sub station lightning arrestor. You have something like that? Along with a 10000 square foot ground grid (small substation) You think theyd spend that kind of money if a 500 dollar lightning arrestor and a couple ground rods would take care of it?

[MaryB]

every see the ground grid put down around a cell tower? It sure isn't one or two 6 foot ground rods like you have for a typical home. I did my own for my home and have 8 ground rods and don't believe they would come close to handling a direct hit of lightning. By the way we installed power to a cell tower while I was working and a few months after it was built it took a hit of lighting and it fried almost all there electronics. Blew the fuse in our transformer and required us installing a new service to the tower. About the only thing that wasn't damaged was the tower and antenna and our transformer. A few years before that our local direct tv company had a main dish up high on a hill near town that took a hit and did the same. That time though it not only took out our service but our transformer too along with all of there gear. Mary I respect your knowledge on a number of things but I spent my life in the outside electrical world and saw what lightning can do. It sounds like your set up is better then most. Sounds like you put a lot of thought into it but don't think you have a step up on mother nature because ive seen her beat the best of equipment and engineers

Even high voltage transmission towers not hit by lightning can be scary. To work 365kv towers we had to wear a suit with steel fibers in it that put us at the same potential as the tower to prevent static shock that alone can kill. Once you get about half way up the tower Your hair stands up and even with the suit you get arcs off of tools ect to the tower. Keep in mind that those towers each have there own ground grid not just a ground rod and still have a static charge like that. Ive never worked 500kv or 765kv towers and to be truthful sure don't want to. Ever watch them worked by helicopter when the lineman on a platform has to slap a wire on to the conductor that puts the chopper in the same potential as the line because if they didn't just the static charge would kill the lineman .

Now take that 365kv or even 765k voltage and increase it to a billion. Those towers cant even bleed off all the static at those voltage levels let alone if a wire comes off the insulator and hits the pole. Unless you've seen it you cant imagine the power even 69kv lines have and that compared to lightning is like comparing an ant to a t-rex.


8 rods in an x pattern and 16 surface ground wires off each that run halfway to the next rod or as far as I can the other direction... I have a pretty big ground screen down! Needed for 1 of the antennas. Over 5000 feet of #14 wire...

[David2011]

Someone I knew, a carpenter by trade, built a house and chose to put paneling up in all of the rooms without putting up sheetrock. Lightning struck the house and it was burned in about 5 minutes. Occupants and dogs survived but the house was a total loss. The replacement had sheetrock.