Musings on the writing of Elmer Keith...

[Harry O]

My son gave me a copy of the book “Sixguns” for my birthday recently. I first read the book by checking it out of the library in the mid-1960’s. I bought a copy of my own 10 or 15 years later. Still have it. So, obviously, it was time to re-read it. Elmer Keith was a smart guy.

Somethings I noticed. There was nothing in the book about the .44 Magnum, just his hot loaded .44 Specials (and lesser calibers). I did not realize that since, at the time I first read it, he was writing a regular column (I think it was in “Guns & Ammo” magazine) and the .44 Magnum was about all he talked about in them. Of course, this was about 10 years after the book was published, but they were at the same time for me. So, he had moved on instead of being trapped in the past.

I read the book carefully this time and noticed that he mentioned a 16:1 lead:tin mix for his .44 Specials. He mentioned 10:1 mix a few times while talking about semi-auto pistols, but there is no mention of using that mix in revolvers. I also did some re-reading of his Guns & Ammo columns and he mentions both 16:1 and 10:1 mixes in relation to the .44 Magnum. I don’t know from what I read if he started with 16:1 in the .44 Magnum and later went to the 10:1 mix. This is unclear from the writing, but I suspect so. I also read from him that he fully expected there to be some leading in the barrel. He thought it was easy enough to clean out. It was not a problem as long as it did not degrade accuracy during a normal shooting session. So, his lead:tin mixes did lead.

I don’t know if he saw a major difference between the 16:1 and the 10:1 mix with the .44 Magnum from what I read. I also don’t know if he ever tried a bullet with a gas-check. I doubt that he would. He was very vocal about being anti-gas-check, but I think it would have been an interesting test. I am not sure what all this means, but it was interesting and worthwhile re-reading him and remembering again how well his writing and opinions have aged.

[dbosman]

If I'm recalling correctly, he started with 20/1 and later switched to 16/1.
If you'd like to read his articles, Gun's magazine offers archives of every issue over fifty years old. Pretty decent PDF files.
https://gunsmagazine.com/classic-guns-magazine-editions/
January 1955 through June 1968

[tranders]

Very interesting. I will read deeper into his writings.


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[Golfswithwolves]

I think he liked 10:1 for the .45 Auto Rim as it has shallow rifling and benefits from harder bullets, also that he advocated 20:1 for slower hollow points. Despite many modern innovations (like the .44 Magnum), SIXGUNS is still the most valuable and true reference book on handguns.

[44MAG#1]

Take this from someone who followed Keith for many years and STILL thinks he is the man. He worked up the Keith Load for the 44 Magnum using 1-16.
It is in his Sixgun book as an addendum. Plus he had said it many times.

Again I meant no harm in what I wrote on this subject. Please do not take it any other way than just as I wrote it. Just for informational purposes only. Not trolling or baiting or any other harmful thing.

[Piedmont]

I have that book and all the Gun Notes columns in book form and would like to know where he said he fully expected his barrels to lead. I don't recall reading that.

[Thumbcocker]

Unlike many today; Elmer wrote from actual experience.

[JBinMN]

If I'm recalling correctly, he started with 20/1 and later switched to 16/1.
If you'd like to read his articles, Gun's magazine offers archives of every issue over fifty years old. Pretty decent PDF files.
https://gunsmagazine.com/classic-guns-magazine-editions/
January 1955 through June 1968

Thanks for that link & content.
:drinks:

[Harry O]

I have that book and all the Gun Notes columns in book form and would like to know where he said he fully expected his barrels to lead. I don't recall reading that.

Maybe I overstated that just a little bit. Read the last part of the chapter called "A Bullet Chapter". He goes through the usual suspects if leading occurs (too hot a powder, undersized bullet, etc), but adds the following: "some leading will occur at times in perfect and well polished barrels." I also remember him talking in one of the columns about tiny flecks of lead in the cleaning patches. He said that this was not a problem as long at it did not affect the accuracy while shooting. I always think of that when I see tiny flecks of lead on my cleaning patches. And I do see them frequently. He was certainly not talking about heavy leading.

[flint45]

He certainly did have the experience,I cant imagine how many rounds he cast and shot. Must of had a heck of a good supply of lead. I miss that good old boy.

[MT Chambers]

With his loads using lots of tin he would get good expansion without much bullet fragmenting, the only negative these days is the cost and avail. of tin.

[beagle]

Good read. I've owned one for years and keep loaning them out never to be returned. Think my first was a hardbound first edition. Wish I had it back.
I recall on his loading and shooting the .45 Colt. He stated that his dad bought plumber's lead in pigs to turn into .45 Colt bullets. I wondered at the time where in the world in Idaho in the sticks did he find anything to alloy that plumber's lead with. Maybe some "tired" lino from the newspaper office. I'm betting most was shot almost pure out of the .45 Colts.
Too bad there is very little remaining of the stuff published in newsletters by the ".44 Associates". Occasionally, I'll run into something but not much remains.
A grand old man and pioneer that gave a lot to the casting and shooting hobby in the way of .44 Special and .44 Magnum calibers. Some on the .357 Magnum but most of that work and the following came from Phil Sharpe and Skeeter Skelton and Charles Askins.
Those of you who haven't need to read the book and the follow on, "Hell, I Was There"./beagle

[Harry O]

Good read.
I recall on his loading and shooting the .45 Colt. He stated that his dad bought plumber's lead in pigs to turn into .45 Colt bullets. I wondered at the time where in the world in Idaho in the sticks did he find anything to alloy that plumber's lead with. Maybe some "tired" lino from the newspaper office. I'm betting most was shot almost pure out of the .45 Colts.
/beagle

I have wondered about that from time to time, myself. Of course, there was not much in the way of wheelweights back then (pre-WWII in Idaho). He does not mention them in the book. He does mention them in the magazine columns, and does not think much of wheelweights. My guess is because antimony is a poor substitute for tin. He does not mention solder in the book.

All he mentions in the book was lead and tin. Lino might be used, but I am thinking he probably ordered straight lead pigs and straight tin sticks. Not cheap, but I doubt that he would stint on the most important part of the handload. He did point out a few ways to save and reuse practice bullets at his target range. Use the best, but conserve.

[Tom W.]

White Label Lubes wasn't available for Elmer.[smilie=1:

I had a few if his books, but someone borrowed them and I haven't seen
them in many years.

[MT Gianni]

Elmers young years were spent 55 Miles N of me in Winston, and 15-20 miles East of Helena, MT. Besides Helena, being the State Capital with plenty of printing, East Helena had a couple of smelters, one of which was last operated by Asarco. http://www.asarco.com/about-us/company-history/
This link says that they produced lead. Since E. Helena is very close to the Spokane hills of MT where the family ranch was it would be easy to buy lead, and probably alloyed lead. There would certainly be no restrictions about selling only to corporations or haz-mat certifications. I doubt that things fell off of the truck much but also know most managers would sell to a local for little more than cost.

[Bent Ramrod]

I would surmise that Keith’s remark on well-polished barrels leading anyway was directed towards the .357 Magnum. It was loaded to the maximum velocity back then, for public relations purposes, and was a notorious leader. Some of the lead-bullet factory loadings featured gas checks. Elmer had a poor opinion of gas checks for revolver bullets, saying they prevented the base expansion in the throat and leade necessary for good revolver performance, but I remember him writing somewhere that in some calibers where leading was a routine issue, the gas check might be a necessary evil.

His writings are so voluminous that I can’t recall where I saw that. Sixguns is a very large expansion on his little Samworth book Sixgun Cartridges and Loads, which I believe has been reprinted. It’s interesting reading, even if you have the big book already.

[KCSO]

Just remember that a lot of his and Jordan's and Askin's writing is now either politically incorrect or completely wrong by modern standards.

[44MAG#1]

Keith lived in a era where being PC was not an issue. He also shot eagles too. Something frowned on by the conservatives.
Elmer Keith "The Man".

Again nothing I wrote was meant to harm, injure or to be mean to anyone. It was not to entice or to bait anyone into anything. It was just me making a statement without any intentions to be mean spirited.

[Char-Gar]

There is no doubt Elmer Keith made a very big impact on American shooting and reloading. He was a voluminous writer and did contradict himself from time to time. You can attribute that to anything you like.

Ray Thompson developed his own 44 Magnum bullet soon after the introduction of the round to the American public. He shot his GC bullet over snow in winter and recovered the bullets. Like others of the time he used binary alloys (lead and tin). He found that a bullet had to had to be cast of 1-20 to prevent it from folding like an accordion under the pressure of the round.

When it comes to hardness, there is not enough difference between 1-20 and 1-16 to make change on.

There is allot to learn from reading Keith's works, but it is not holy writ.

[44MAG#1]

While Keith's writings are not holy writ there really isnt any writer that does produce holy writ.
In Keiths time testing procedures were not as sophistcated as they are now. Even nobodys like me own a chrono. If someone on a higher tier than me wanted to they can get the Ohler Personal Ballistic Lab.
Keith called CUP PSI. We now know it is CUP but not PSI. Ballisticians have much more sophisticated equipment than even just before Keith passed away.
Bit still even with todays more sophistication I dont take any writing by anyone as holy writ and to do so is incorrect in my opinion.

Again what I have just said in printed word was not meant to hurt, aggravate or to be mean to anyone. Please dont take it that way. It was just a statement of my opinion only.

[frank505]

So why did Mr. Keith use 16:1 alloy? Question of the day.

[44MAG#1]

So why did Mr. Keith use 16:1 alloy? Question of the day.

While I am far from an expert on anything I would say it worked for him in what he did with his handguns.
That would seem logical to me. Since in his years after the coming of the 44 Magnum he rarely if ever experimented with loads unless he was testing a new gun that had come out and he would fire maybe a handful of some factory loads. Much preferring his own "heavy" load.

Again what i have written is not meant in any way to hurt, injure, insult, bait or to be mean spirited to anyone. It is only my opinion based on the very little I know so please take it that way.

[Piedmont]

So why did Mr. Keith use 16:1 alloy? Question of the day.
Dave Scovill has commented that Elmer melted down .45-70 bullets cast of that alloy for his lead supply. I never read Elmer saying that but I started in this hobby in the 1970s so haven't read every single thing Keith ever wrote. Also, Scovill met the man and has talked to him, maybe about this subject.

[Walks]

How did Keith get .45-70 bullets.

[frank505]

The correct answer is, he pulled and melted 45/70 bullets. The West was full of that ammunition and nobody wanted military surplus 45/70.
You must realize those days were tough. Elmer Keith persevered through very lean times as a young man trying to make his way.

[44MAG#1]

The correct answer is, he pulled and melted 45/70 bullets. The West was full of that ammunition and nobody wanted military surplus 45/70.
You must realize those days were tough. Elmer Keith persevered through very lean times as a young man trying to make his way.

Was he still pulling 45/70 bullets when he worked up the 44 Magnum Keith load?

Again what i have written is not meant in any way to hurt, injure, insult, bait or to be mean spirited to anyone. It is only my opinion based on the very little I know so please take it that way.

[Thumbcocker]

I have heard or read that Elmer had access to 16:1 .45/70 boolits through the National Guard in Montana. He was in the Guard. Dunno if this is true or not.

[JoeJames]

BTW, "Hell, I was there!" is also very good, very informative, and quite enjoyable. But in my opinion Sixguns is his best work. I will admit I was not inclined to read him; as I was a bit bitter that his 44 Magnum eclipsed the 44 Special to a point that 44 Specials are somewhat rare other than the new Rugers. But I read Sixguns and it changed my opinion drastically.

[beagle]

I guess one of my favorite Keith later stories (thing it was published only in a magazine as I recall) tells of a gun writer's convention in California. One of the perks was a sport fishing trip off the CA coast. The fish must not have been biting so Elmer broke out his .44 Mag and some heavy 429421s and they started chumming sharks in close to the boat so he could pop them. Said the 429421 did well on sharks near the surface and he had a ball.
Then, he wrote it up in his article.
Then the "bunny huggers" got hold of it and Elmer had to lay low for a while. Sounded like good clean fun to me./beagle

[beagle]

Think those were Golden Eagles instead of the Bald Eagle and not protected at the time./beagle


Keith lived in a era where being PC was not an issue. He also shot eagles too. Something frowned on by the conservatives.
Elmer Keith "The Man".

Again nothing I wrote was meant to harm, injure or to be mean to anyone. It was not to entice or to bait anyone into anything. It was just me making a statement without any intentions to be mean spirited.

[44MAG#1]

Think those were Golden Eagles instead of the Bald Eagle and not protected at the time./beagle

While you are correct they are still Eagles.

Again what i have written is not meant in any way to hurt, injure, insult, bait or to be mean spirited to anyone. It is only my opinion based on the very little I know so please take it that way.

[Don Purcell]

Elmer also used the 16-1 alloy in his Sharps rifles. He made a quick mention of using lead from lead mines in northern Idaho that he said it worked well as it was. I'm no geologist but I don't know if there was possibly any naturally occurring hardening agent in the lead that was mined to make it work to his satisfaction. A lot of times with Elmer's writings you had to already have some backround into what he was saying or read between the lines. My autographed copy of "Sixguns" is very well used with a few loose pages but is cherished.

[HangFireW8]

I recall on his loading and shooting the .45 Colt. He stated that his dad bought plumber's lead in pigs to turn into .45 Colt bullets. I wondered at the time where in the world in Idaho in the sticks did he find anything to alloy that plumber's lead with. Maybe some "tired" lino from the newspaper office. I'm betting most was shot almost pure out of the .45 Colts.
Besides printers lead, there was "block tin", surplus refrigerator radiators made almost entirely of tin, wiping solder for auto body & fender shops, toothpaste tubes made of pure tin... tin was plenty available back then, most anywhere.

[Texas by God]

I guess one of my favorite Keith later stories (thing it was published only in a magazine as I recall) tells of a gun writer's convention in California. One of the perks was a sport fishing trip off the CA coast. The fish must not have been biting so Elmer broke out his .44 Mag and some heavy 429421s and they started chumming sharks in close to the boat so he could pop them. Said the 429421 did well on sharks near the surface and he had a ball.
Then, he wrote it up in his article.
Then the "bunny huggers" got hold of it and Elmer had to lay low for a while. Sounded like good clean fun to me./beagleI read that one, too. He was Albacore fishing at the time.
44 Mag- stop apologizing; you are not bothering anyone.

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[9.3X62AL]

A #429421 into a shark head is fine by me. Sharks and rattlesnakes are two classes of creature that make you wonder what God was thinking about when He cranked them out.

[murf205]

Elmer would have had a ball with powder coating. He might have blown up a gun trying to get it to lead! He is still one of the great reads for us boolit junkies.

[Green Frog]

With his loads using lots of tin he would get good expansion without much bullet fragmenting, the only negative these days is the cost and avail. of tin.

I'm in a weird position... I have a good friend who gets nearly pure tin as industrial scrap, but my supply of pure lead has dried up. :( Now that I'm shooting front stuffers in North-South Skirmish events, I go through a lot of lead!

When I was shooting schuetzen events in the American Single Shot Rifle Association, it was spoken as gospel that one should avoid antimony at all costs, so linotype wasn't even considered there... I still haven't used up all the lino- and monotype I somehow acquired, but it should go OK in my pistols and maybe revolvers needing relatively hard bullets. I too wonder why Elmer never talked in his later writings about any of the tertiary mixes. I've never seen anyone (including Elmer) who said antimony was bad in pistol bullets, just didn't hear them/him recommending it except of course the old industry standard Lyman #2 that seems to have been developed when linotype was abundant and cheap.



I guess one of my favorite Keith later stories (thing it was published only in a magazine as I recall) tells of a gun writer's convention in California. One of the perks was a sport fishing trip off the CA coast. The fish must not have been biting so Elmer broke out his .44 Mag and some heavy 429421s and they started chumming sharks in close to the boat so he could pop them. Said the 429421 did well on sharks near the surface and he had a ball.
Then, he wrote it up in his article.
Then the "bunny huggers" got hold of it and Elmer had to lay low for a while. Sounded like good clean fun to me./beagle

I had the opportunity to visit "The Compleat Angler" in Bimini a few years before it burned. When Papa Hemingway was hanging out there "back in the day" he was having problems with the sharks eating his bill fish. His solution was to swap a rum runner out of a Thompson sub gun and chum up sharks into range to use that on them. I don't recall hearing the bunny huggers giving him any grief about that... but then again, maybe he didn't tell that many folks about it in print!

One has to wonder whether the World would have ever progressed to its current level if PC had been "invented" a century or two earlier... but then again, the World couldn't have advanced to the level to support the pointy headed intellectuals who subscribe to it if they had started trying to retard advancement any earlier!

Froggie

[Char-Gar]

Think those were Golden Eagles instead of the Bald Eagle and not protected at the time./beagle

Back in 62-63 when I was a student at Sul Ross State College in Alpine Texas, eagles were wrecking havoc with the lamb crop of some ranchers to the point they put a bounty on eagles. There was a local fly guy who had a Piper J3 Cub. He flew from the back seat, while I shot flying eagles from the front seat. Yes, care was taken not to shoot the wings struts or other vital parts of the air plane. There was radio contact with a guy on the ground who would retrieve the dead birds for the bounty. He had the hard job as it was rugged country.

[dale2242]

Last year I was lucky enough to go to the estate sale at the Hensley and Gibbs shop in Murphy, Or.
I live about 30 miles from there.
I was fortunate to be the first to go through their library.
Among the books I bought was a copy of Elmer Keiths book " Six Guns" by Keith.
I already had a copy but could not pass up another .
When I got home I looked inside the cover and found this inscription:

To Hensley & Gibbs
With all best wishes
Elmer Keith
Salmon, Idaho
Oct 25, 1981

Signed in Elmers handwriting.


I also got several of the early Ideal loading books.

Some days you just get lucky....dale

[GetGunz]

Thanks for that link & content.
:drinks:

OH Yeah...you THE MAN!

[DonH]

While you are correct they are still Eagles.

Again what i have written is not meant in any way to hurt, injure, insult, bait or to be mean spirited to anyone. It is only my opinion based on the very little I know so please take it that way.

For those with their dander up over Elmer Keith shooting eagles, his actions must be put in context. If I recall he wrote of shooting eagles for taking lambs, etc. In a time when the survival of your livestock, nothing which threatened that was safe.
Invmy part of the country sixty years ago a red-tailed hawk was a chicken hawk and in grave danger from farmers with flocks of poultry.

[44MAG#1]

For those with their dander up over Elmer Keith shooting eagles, his actions must be put in context. If I recall he wrote of shooting eagles for taking lambs, etc. In a time when the survlival of your livestock, nothing which threatened that was safe.
Invmy part of the country sixty years ago a red-tailed hawk was a chicken hawk and in grave danger from farmers with flocks of poultry.

I dont know of anyone who has their dander up. Times were different when he was doing what he was doing. If someone has their dander up it would be someone who is young enough to not understand that.
Idaho at one time had a bounty on Golden Eagles. This would be news to many.

Again what I have printed is not meant to hurt, injure, call out or bait anyone. It is just my opinion stated in print and means no harm to anyone here. Thanks.

[eric123]

I enjoy the stories about Elmer Keith...I grew up about a mile from his house in Salmon, but I was too young to know anything about him or who he was. A friend of his taught me how to reload when I was pretty young...A friend of my mom was a member of the Hodgdon family and I got all my powder free, I just had to pay hazmat...If I recall correctly, I was getting jugs of powder for about $17, lat 80's early 90's...Good times...

[frank505]

Driving up the mountain one beautiful day a little mule deer buck came blasting of the hill above us. Right behind him was a golden eagle trying his best to break his back. The mule deer made to a patch of trees, the golden circled a few times and left. When the pups were six months old so golden decided to make a pass at them, he quickly realized that was the wrong thing to do.
So all the protection of predators has done what?????

[9.3X62AL]

So all the protection of predators has done what?????

All of that "protection" has done the same things for predators that soft sentencing, short prison terms, and indulgent parole/probation terms have done for human predators--minimized the threat matrix and incentivized their depredations. Don't get me on THOSE soap boxes.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So why did Mr. Keith use 16:1 alloy? Question of the day.

uhhh,,, 1 oz of tin to one pound of lead. Pretty easy math. KISS.

As far as the Eagles go,,, the Mongolians use them like Falcons and if you had seen an Eagle carry off a goat or large dog you would understand why someone would shoot them. They use them to hunt Wolves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re644qgnCtw

If an Eagle Golden or Bald was carrying off your best friend or source of milk for your family you would think differently. Eagles are very powerful predators, and they pick off small dogs in Canada and Alaska as hors-dourves frequently.

Also a good band from the 70's & 80's.

A Great Horned Owl can carry off a 15 lb Cat, and when the cat is scruffed, they just go limp and let it happen. Many cats in our neighborhood come up missing due to owls, and as a result our cats don't go out at night.

Randy

[Shuz]

What ever happened to our resident "catlover" Carpetman?

[MT Gianni]

uhhh,,, 1 oz of tin to one pound of lead. Pretty easy math. KISS.


Randy

One lp lead + one oz tin is 1 in 17.

[44MAG#1]

One lp lead + one oz tin is 1 in 17.

1-16 means 1 pound of tin to 16 pounds of lead. Hence 1-16. 6.25 percent tin..

Again i mean no harm with anything I post. I mean no harm, injury, calling out or baiting. I am simply making a statement based on my opinion. That is all. Nothing else.

[duck hollow pete]

Yes 16lb's plus 1lb =17 lb's total = 5.88%

[dondiego]

Yes 16lb's plus 1lb =17 lb's total = 5.88%

Deleted

[44MAG#1]

This is all a matter of one interpretation of terms. If we are adding 1 pound of tin to 16 pounds of lead that is 1 part tin to 16 parts lead. If you take 16 pounds of lead you need to add 6.25 percent of tin to make the pound. 16X.0625 is 1 pound hence 1 part to 16 parts remembering a pound can be a part. Now in a 17 pound batch of alloy that is tin and lead and you told me the tin content was 5.89 percent (rounded) I would know it had 1 pound of tin and 16 pounds lead. Now If I had 16 pounds of lead and I wanted to know the percentage of tin I would have to add to make it 1-16 i would say 6.25 percent.
16 pounds of lead times 6.25 percent is 1 pound. So i would have 1 part tin to 16 parts lead so 1-16 alloy for a total alloy weight of 17 pounds of which 5.89 percent is tin. Or i added 6.25 percent of the weight of the lead in tin which ia 1-16 alloy.

Again i mean no harm, hurt, being mean or trolling or baiting by what i have said. It is only a statement from my limited knowledge bank which stays nearly depleted.

[duck hollow pete]

No offence intended I keep everything simple by parts it's close enough for me. All the ratio's are supposed to be by weight that's why 10 to 1 stated in the books at 9% 20 to 1 rounded to 5% Just keep it simple for those new to our hobby.

[beagle]

Boys, I apologize for starting this row over eagles. Just stating what Keith wrote. I appreciate seeing an eagle now and then but the ones we see here in KY are baldies. Never saw a golden but Keith wrote that they played havoc with the lamb population out there. And, that was probably in the 50s or 60s. Times have changed. I recall when it was accepted policy to ride country roads in NC and shoot red tailed hawks with a .222. No longer allowed./beagle

[W.R.Buchanan]

Change is inevitable, but Keith was a constant.

I look at guys like him, Whelan, the gunsmiths of the 20's and 30's as the fathers of the bolt action sporting rifle. They changed the sporting rifle concept from leverguns to bolt guns, and Keith had a hand in that too.

He was definately the father of the .44 Magnum and even though he didn't invent the .44 Special,,, he made it "Special!"

I have known guys like Keith and all I can say is that I would have gotten along with him famously. I love the flavor of their speech, and to call him "colorful" would be a gross understatement! He was friggin' rainbow!

I only wish I'd had the chance to know him personally.

Randy

[woodbutcher]

:grin: I have the hard cover copy of"Hell,I was there".Have read it several times,and each time it just gets better.Let Dad read it,and he loved it.Heard him laugh and snicker many times over some of it.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Tom W.]

This is all a matter of one interpretation of terms. If we are adding 1 pound of tin to 16 pounds of lead that is 1 part tin to 16 parts lead. If you take 16 pounds of lead you need to add 6.25 percent of tin to make the pound. 16X.0625 is 1 pound hence 1 part to 16 parts remembering a pound can be a part. Now in a 17 pound batch of alloy that is tin and lead and you told me the tin content was 5.89 percent (rounded) I would know it had 1 pound of tin and 16 pounds lead. Now If I had 16 pounds of lead and I wanted to know the percentage of tin I would have to add to make it 1-16 i would say 6.25 percent.
16 pounds of lead times 6.25 percent is 1 pound. So i would have 1 part tin to 16 parts lead so 1-16 alloy for a total alloy weight of 17 pounds of which 5.89 percent is tin. Or i added 6.25 percent of the weight of the lead in tin which ia 1-16 alloy.

Again i mean no harm, hurt, being mean or trolling or baiting by what i have said. It is only a statement from my limited knowledge bank which stays nearly depleted.


It's easier to just melt down W/W... unless you need a specific alloy. Paper doesn't care.....

[44MAG#1]

It's easier to just melt down W/W... unless you need a specific alloy. Paper doesn't care.....

While that is true and i have used WW as my main casting alloy for many years the subject was Keiths 1-16 alloy that he wrote about many times. The ones of us discussing 1-16 were just trying to stick to the subject was all.


Again i mean no harm, hurt, or being mean to anyone with my answer. I was just making a statement based on my belief and/or opinion and nothing else. Please dont take it personally.

[Tom W.]

Not me! Attempting to insert some jocularity is all.....

[lightload]

I think that finding lead was easy for Elmer. Many likely gifted it to him. Also, Elmer had to work hard most of his life and did not have as much free leisure time as we do. Too, much of his shooting was done with revolvers and not pistols. With the .45 Auto I suspect that he was shooting free government ammo. I was born in 1948 and had no trouble locating cases of it that nobody wanted.

[MT Gianni]

Every time the Keith family went to Helena they would pass by a smelter that sold lead in 1000 lb lots and parallel a train track it was shipped on. He herded sheep with a 45-70 turning them when they were 400 yards out. Access to lead was the least of his worries as a youth.