Snagged a 1878 Trapdoor 45/70 at a gunshow today!

[koger]

I took a small .32 Nazi stamped pistol to the gun show, today, had it for years and gave about $275 for it and the marked holster. I know these things have gone thru the roof lately, I priced it for $800, one guy tried to haggle me down, I walked away from him and another guy broke his neck getting to me and promptly paid my asking price! I continued to browse the aisles and came across a older gentleman who was selling off a large part of his collection, mostly Mossberg target rifles and higher end .22’s. On the end of his table I saw a Trapdoor Springfield waving at me from underneath some books he was selling. I asked him to look at it, and he obliged me, telling me it was a 45/70. This was a 1878 Springfield rifle that appeared to be in great shape with a heavy brown/blue patina, with mostly blue on the lock and breech area. He told me it had a pristine bore, and that he shot it often with a 405 cast slug and 12 grains of unique powder. Upon examination of the bore, it was bright and shiny with no pits or corrosion at all. He had also swapped out the pinned in front sight for a taller one that made it shoot dead on at 100 yds. It had the Buffington rear sight on it, or I think that was what it was called. I bought several gunsmithing tools off him, and a couple of project rifles, and a stock, then I went back to the Trapdoor and asked him what bottom dollar was, and after some consideration he shot me a price of $590. I paid the man and after going home, I swabbed the barrel, and tried some of my 340 Lees cast at .459 with 15 grs of Unique behind it. The first 3 shots on my clanger printed a nice group of 2-3/4 “ about 3” high at 100 yds, dead on left and right! I think I got a great deal, you more knowledgeable trapdoor enthusiasts please chime in and tell me what proof marks etc I need to look for to better identify it with. It also has the two slug loopes right together on the front barrel band and the one in the forward area of the trigger guard. All feedback appreciated!

[jonp]

Great deal. Good thing I wasn't there to step on your back getting to it. :D

[1Hawkeye]

Ah the trapdoor aka the gateway drug to bpcr:D. You did very well on your purchase as for markings will start with the barrel it should have a VP and an eagle head stamped on the left side near the front of the action. The two front sling swivels are actually a stacking swivel and a sling swivel. Both bands should be marked with a U which means up indicating band position. The buffington rear sight should be stamped with an R on its top right side indicating Rifle sight if its marked C thats a carbine sight. If its a 1878 breech block with a buffington sight somewhere down the line one of the two parts got replaced you can verify that by checking the rifles serial number for its year of production. also on the stock there should be some inspection marks such as a fancy P in a circle at the end of the trigger guard and the inspectors cartouche on the left side of the stock just behind the rear lock screw. It should read SWP in cursive over top of a date example 1881. I hope this helps out. Trapdoors are a great rifle Iv'e owned many and still keep an eye out for reasonable priced ones.

[koger]

Ok, here goes. Hawkeye you are dead on, all the markings are correct on the barrel , and the serial # dates 1886, with the 1878 breechblock being the replacement part. The sight has the R on the right side. There are no markings on the triggerguard or the stock. It does not appear to have been refinished, no metal parts are proud on the wood. It may just be one assembled out of odd parts. What do you think, it would be worth, in the condition described. Here in KY they go for a premium, I saw one recently sell for $900 that had mismatched parts, and had been cleaned with a soft wire brush on a wheel giving the whole metal works in a matte grey finish. I think a nice even patina is much more desirable. Waiting on you to reply Hawkeye!













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[1Hawkeye]

Ok, now were cooking its a 1884 model thats been through arsenal rebuild which explains the breech block date and the missing proof mark at the end of the trigger guard in the wood and the missing inspectors cartouche on the left side of the stock. Around here depending on the shop selling it the price range would be 750.00 to 995.00 with 850.00 most likely being the sale price. So for 590.00 you did very well. Condition wise as you describe it I would call it average trapdoor blue & brown. How is the breech block ? they were case colored so they are sometimes brown on the outside and still case colored on the inside. Sounds like you've got a fun piece.

[tbx-4]

If you take a magnifying glass and look closely at the date on the breach block you’ll see it’s 1873.

[koger]

Thx you are correct, after cleaning with copper brush lightly I was able to read Model 1873. So everything is correct except stamps on the wood, which probably means that the wood had been replaced at some time. The metal has the same patina all over.

[varsity07840]

Thx you are correct, after cleaning with copper brush lightly I was able to read Model 1873. So everything is correct except stamps on the wood, which probably means that the wood had been replaced at some time. The metal has the same patina all over.

Does the breech block have a high or low arch? If it's high, the block is a "bubba" replacement.

[1Hawkeye]

Yes if the bottom of the breech block has a high arch in it its a 73 block if its a very shallow arch its a 78. Springfield would not have used a 73 block as a replacement because they were thought to be an inferior designed part.

[koger]

It had the shallow block! Thanks for all the replies! I got it out andshot it some more today, could hit about everything I shot st between 80-150 yds, off hand, that rifle is just sweet to shoot. When I catch a cool day, I am going to get out one morning and sandbags it over my portable shooting table at my neighbors 500 yd range in his hay field, starting at 200 yds and work my way out with the buffington sight. I swabbed it out with a patch with solvent followed by 2 poled patches. I am truly amazed at how great a shape the bore is, bright and shiny. It must haves been a miracle to have been shot with black powder and still been kept clean after all these years.

[Larry Gibson]

Your TD is a M1884 as previously mentioned. There was no M1878 TD. What appears to be an "8" on the breach block is just struck deep "3". You might find this thread interesting for loading for your TD. Excellent find BTW.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?190999-My-Trapdoor-Loads-Technique-and-Equipment

[JoeJames]

I sold my 1879 type trapdoor cadet rifle made about 1882 for $775 about 5 months ago. Sold it on consignment at my local gun shop. Took about 4 months for someone to bite. But I picked up following info when researching mine: Per > Flayderman - (the 1879 is) "quickly distinguished from the earlier 1873's by the noticeably different, thicker, wider receiver. No longer flush with barrel and hence the inletting on stock is two-step at that point where receiver and barrel meet and fit into stock. Low arched breechblock".

[koger]

Larry I just finished reading all 5 pages, of the TD reloading, seems we think alike on the 340 Lee slug, shoots great in all 5 of my 45/70's. I have some 405 and 500 gr postells molded up for future loading. I am a old hand at loading for the 45/70 with BP, smokeless, and jacketed and lead slugs for over 30 years. It will take me some time to go over my notes from this article and digest it al, but I am very grateful to you for all the work you did, and passing it on to like minded folks on this forum!