Amazed and Amused at the same time

[1Shirt]

Was at the range yesterday, and there were three very experianced shooters there playing with a new chrony. Son in law and I were shooting cast which always seems to amaze these guys. One who said that he was told that you had to shoot cast with a gas check or they would lead. Had no knowledge of bullet sizing and when we told him that most commercial cast was overly hard and probably undersized for handgun, he looked like we had just given him vast new knowledge. He was loading for cowboy action rifle for 44 mag, and wanted a low recoiling 180 grain load, and was using H110. We advised Unique, he had never tried same. I would not be comfortable downloading 110. One of the other guys was shooting 30 Carb and was having problems chambering and when we looked at some of his loads saw that his seating had not removed all of the belling via taper crimp. He was using Lil'Gun, and getting wide vol variances. I suggested he might want to try 2400. I asked him what loading manuals he had, and he said he had an old one probably ten or 15 years old. Suggested that he ought to get a new one, and probably a Lyman so that he could also learn a little about cast as well. He is a real nice guy and shoots a lot of 38S wad cutter. One of the other guys had never seen a wadcutter load, and had no knowledge of same. These are all gezzers like me, but probably not quite as old. They are also competitive mil rifle shooters, and do quite well.

Guess, I have been at this game so long that I figure if you shoot a lot you are or at least ought to be at least fairly knowledgable and reasonably well read about most things guns related. Obviously not so!

The older I get the more I know that I really don't know that much overall, but that I sure need to keep learning. Every day I don't learn something new is a day wasted. It is a rare day that I do not learn not just one thing, but often a group of things that are of use from this forum.

So much for my random thoughts!

1Shirt!::confused::coffee:

[missionary5155]

I live where most individuals have never contemplated a reload. Some think a lead boolit is the WORST possible item you could want to load into a firearm... until I show them a 30-1 160grain WC (Lyman # 357446) boolit fired out of a 38 special (4 grains Unique) at 15 feet into a 1 gallon water jug. And fire a round ball out of a shot gun when the "whole world knows" the Forster slug is "The Best shotgun invention" since strawberry shakes hit the market.
But then sitting here and reading daily I realise what a privalidge I have being able to glean from the years others have invested in cast boolits and their proper application.

[Bret4207]

This is a portion of a thread on another board I post at titled-"You favorite deer gun". The posters handle is "Gun Guru"!!!!! I put the really "good" parts in bold.

"A friend of mine has told me that he has actually fired a .30-06 at a deer and the bullet went through the deer, just making a hole. And he tells me that he has got more deer with a 30/30 bullet then all others.
I think that the real issues are:

1. Velocity of bullet
2. Damage the bullet does (mushrooming bullet) as it pushes deer flesh out in front of the speeding bullet.
3. girth of the deere, larger deer needs larger bullet to do more damage.

4. If you are hunting deer and you have an AR type rifle then you can fire a quick second shot without unshouldering the rifle. Put 1 shot in the lungs and another in the rear leg maybe. Be sure its legal to hunt with a magazine type rifle.

I have not heard of anyone shooting a deer witha .44 magnum. Ruger makes a lever action .44 and a semiauto called the deerfield carbine (at least they used to make this) "


My reply was less than kind......

[dromia]

It worries me sometimes that people like that shoot, I feel a responsibility to know about firearms and shooting before I do it.

[danski26]

Bret,

WOW! What can you even say to someone like that???????

[pdawg_shooter]

I have taken my last 3 deer with a 44mag, out of a 6" model 29 Smith with factory sights. It works.

[1Shirt]

Gun Guru eh! Ya know, it takes basketball size to attach a handle like that to oneself. I have serious doubt that even the top gunwriters, or gunsmiths, or the like would have a handle like that.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Heavy lead]

Gun Guru eh! Ya know, it takes basketball size to attach a handle like that to oneself. I have serious doubt that even the top gunwriters, or gunsmiths, or the like would have a handle like that.
1Shirt!:coffee:

Bet them Basketballs are a little low on air.[smilie=1:

[jhalcott]

I see this a lot at my club ,the low level of knowledge about guns! I was shooting a 30-30 contender at 100 yards and hitting the target regularly. An older gent asked me "Why are you wasting your time shooting at THAT range? You'll NEVER kill a deer with that pistol!" When I convinced him to spot for me,he was amazed that I was hitting the target every time. According to him a 30-06 was the minimum caliber to use on deer. I coaxed him into taking a few shots off the bench and at some gallon jugs lined up at the 100 yard line. He now believes that it IS possible to kill a deer with the 30-30 hand gun. It did help to have a 2x7 Burris scope on the 30-30 barrel

[Blammer]

bret, cannon fodder, he's no more than cannon fodder.

[Blammer]

you should see the look on peoples faces at the range when I bring back my 2" group at 100 yds with my 44 mag pistol.

they usually are speachless.

[jameslovesjammie]

Gun Guru eh! Ya know, it takes basketball size to attach a handle like that to oneself. I have serious doubt that even the top gunwriters, or gunsmiths, or the like would have a handle like that.

It's pretty easy to attach a name like that to yourself when you're a 16 year old Mall Ninja.

[Boomer Mikey]

It's the video game syndrome,

99% of people under 30 play video games where they give themselves SWA names to impress their adversaries and themselves.

Don't you know you must kill Bambi with a 40mm grenade to advance to level 3?

I was at my favorite gun store yesterday and a young very plump guy was tellin me about his experiences using an M16 in the military and how much he wanted to buy one and a few extra barrels to swap calibers easily... he didn't know the rifle consisted of lower and upper assemblies but professed to be an expert on the fine points of the AR-15 and it's effectiveness at long range with the superior firepower of the 5.56 and 30 round magazines. When asked what I would use; my reply was... 308 or 30-06 out to 500 yards and 338 Winmag for long range. At that point the young man said the cocking lever was broke (forward assist) and wanted to know what the charging handle was for. All of this after looking at several 45's, practicing his horizontal 90 degree shooting position; dry firing a $1200 1911 pistol, and professing he would like to have one for pig hunting.

The Internet is full of kids playing video games.

Boomer :Fire:

[Echo]

I get some occasional street creds at the range where I volunteer. There are some pretty dang good shooters that show up - but there are a lot of tyro's, too. I occasionally ask if they will let me have one shot through their pistola. I do this when I see folks having some problems. I spot a rock, or clod, or stick, down at the berm 60 yds away and point it out to them as the AIMING POINT! I don't promise to hit it! The idea is to see where their sights are. If I hit within 6", I'm happy, and can truthfully say that as far as I can tell, their sights seem to be dead on. If I hit 2' to one side, and I am confident that >I< didn't do it, I ask to shoot another for verification.

But sometime I hit the clod, or rock, or stick, or whatever, and generally get gasps. I compliment their gun (I always do), and sometime they are more apt to listen to any coaching I might offer. I have shown them that PISTOLS are NOT inherently inaccurate, and CAN hit a target. It is a learning situation...

[Down South]

I have taken my last 3 deer with a 44mag, out of a 6" model 29 Smith with factory sights. It works.

I took my last three deer with a bow. I wonder what that guy would have thought about that. [smilie=1:

[Jim]

I'm a member of a rather nice gun club also. We have PLENTY of gun experts. They're ALL experts! I was at the range not too long ago with my Gibbs Summit. I had a box of 500 gr. Rapine cast round nose bore riders on the table. One of the "gurus" comes along, asks to see one of the loads and says "What kind of bullets are these?".:roll:
Yessir, we got PLENTY of experts.[smilie=1:

[dk17hmr]

I have alot of guys ask what type of bullet is that. When I tell them its a lead bullet I cast in my barn, they are skeptical, until I let them shoot whatever rifle I happen to be shooting.

[fatnhappy]

The posters handle is "Gun Guru"

Formerly known as MOA Shooter and ALLADDIN?

I hate to say it but for the most part I've given up on disspelling the myths CB shooting at my club. It's tiresome when the thruth is readily available and my selfish nature precludes me from fostering competition for WWs.

[Buckshot]

...............Some guys who hunt don't know much of anything about guns. It's merely a tool and some guy behind a counter someplace probably chose the rifle AND cartridge for him. If they're ethical in their hunting, then the fact that they know nothing and aren't curious about the instrument isn't a big deal.

Per this thread's title it is always an amazement what some supposedly gun knowledgeable person will say in all seriousness. Or, possibly NOT gun knowledgeable but merely zany :-) A couple months back there was a guy shooting one of those new California legal AK variants. Gopher Slayer was talking to him and he comes back down to where we were shooting and he's all smiles. He tells me that the AK guy is having some problems because of the Russian 7.62x39 ammo being loaded with black powder. WHAT?

What kills me especially are hunters that don't know squat about anything. Several years ago I was BSing with Kenny the rangemaster when 5-6 guys all arrived in a group to sign in. They were all there to sight in their rifles for the upcoming season. One guy was blathering on about some deer he'd shot and how far away it was. They guys were lining up and getting their wallets out and maybe hearing half of what the story teller was saying.

So he comes to the shooting part and says something to the effect of, "Lord he had to've been I dunno, 5 or 6 hundred yards out there if it was a foot. Then he looks around for something he can point out that was that far away. He spied the steel plates out there and pointed at them and said "He had to have been as far way as those plates". A couple of his buddies turned around and looked, Then the guy looks at Kenny and asks how far away they were.

Kenny says, "What, those plates way out there? Those are at 200 yards." I'm not sure if a couple of those guys snickered or not, but the storyteller found something else to do until he got signed in and wandered off.

THOSE people have no business in the fields with a rifle shooting at a live animal.

.................Buckshot

[DLCTEX]

Many years ago a fellow saw my pistol (High Standard Double-nine in 22 cal.) and loudly proclaimed a pistol is worthless beyond about 20 yd.s and he'd stand at 100 yds. and let me shoot at him all day long. I opined I would have no trouble hitting him at that range, and he replied he would bet $100 I could empty it and not hit him. I said even though it would be doing the world a favor, I wouldn't want to go to court for killing him, so would he accept a 55 gal. drum for a substitute? He accepted the target which we then hauled out and let him step off the range, whereupon I put all nine shots into it. He looked rather foolish and said he'd pay me on payday. He lived 30 miles away and was a frequent visitor to our shop until then. I never saw him again. He later was charged with beating his wife and caused me to regret changing targets. DALE

[10-x]

World is full of "sexual intellectuials", better known as "F*&^%ing know it all's".

Way back in the 70's I had a guy at work bet me he would stand at 100 yards and I could'nt hit him with a 1911!!!!! He continued to run his mouth till he talked to a guy I shot with, this guy was going around taking bets! I was going to use a B-27 instead of the idiot.:Fire:[/SIZE]
Maybe Wayne the Shrink can shed some light on this ?[smilie=1:

[Bret4207]

Look at the bright side- it's clowns like these guys that keep buying the biggest and bestest and latest gizmo, gun, scope and ammo. If everyone shot cast with cheap surplus powders, brass used 10x, primers bought 10,000 at a time for cheap and all out of a $119.00 surplus rifle or $299.99 Walmart Stevens then the gun industry would collapse!

[TAWILDCATT]

I dont under stand you people.I am the best shot and know all about guns.
I can shoot at 1000 yrds and get a fly.
now lets all bow our heads and pray for the poor souls.
I am 84 and still learning.I started bullet casting about 1939.I had used a Gilbert caster for lead soldiers so knew how to cast.cast on win 32/20 mold and tong tool.and shot in 73 win.filled caases with military rifle powder.broke down 30/06.
I too am amazed at the storys and lack of knowledge."old ww1 vet.we used the
thuty thuty"and the antis with their stupidity teaching the gullable that pistols are no goo so we should ban them.then I go shoot at 200 yrd with 1911 and ball.hit the ram at 200 on 7th shot.fixed sights.horizontal right on, mortar on vertical.first time I shot silouete.
worst part is you cant help them as they have a closed mind.
I just shot my 1903[1914]with lees 312-160-tl at 100 yds 4 touching and pulled the 5th 1" out.oh by way 13 grs RED DOT.

[AZ-Stew]

I once witnessed this in the sporting goods section:

Customer: "I just got drawn for elk. Can you tell me what rifle I should get?"

Young Wal-Mart associate: "Well, my uncle has one of these" (showing the customer a bolt action .243 Win.) "and he says it works good for deer. It ought to work GREAT for elk".

Not wanting to start a raucous argument, and not having the time to run a hunter education class, I quickly turned and left.

Regards,

Stew

[KCSO]

Hunting stories, rules for listening...
#1 Yardage: automaticly deduct 50% to the story unless the teller has a MAGNUM wherein you deduct 75%

#2 Shots: automaticly add 50% unless...

#3 The louder the story is told the more likely it is complete fabrication.

#4 All deer lose at least 2 points off the rack in the process of dragging them out of the woods.

#5 All deer not recovered automaticly gain 4 points.

#6 Photo's never lie but Photoshop does.

[MT Gianni]

Definition of a 1 shot kill..."the others were just for practice".

[Thumbcocker]

One of the scariest places I have ever been is at the range the week before firearm deer season. But it is educational, I have "learend" stuff like this from real gun "experts":

1/2 way between the 25 yard berm and the 50 yard berm is 75-80 yards.

There is no reason to put sights on a pistol 'cause you shoot it just like pointing your finger and you can't hit anything past (insert very short distance) anyway.

These new super duper platinum plated deer slugs will cut one hole at (insert very long distance).

The gene pool ain't more than ankle deep in places

These same "experts" "hunt" by forming a line in a crp field and when a deer runs opening fire on it. The person who tags the deer is the one who "puts the last slug in to it while it is still moving"

My father ran a group off his property after they shot a doe 13 times and said "she just wouldn't go down.

FWIW Thumb cocking Ruger .44's , with sights no less, have put meat in my freezer several times. I guess I am just doing it wrong.

[Bret4207]

Thumbcocker, I'm sure there's a support group avaialble to help you with that Ruger issue. In fact, I think this is it!

[lunicy]

Sound like my range. Most of the guy are really on point, but the weekend crowd is amazing, if you believe their stories. I have a .44 mag (s&w, with scope). And have been told that you can't hit anything with them, they are all for intimidation. My reply was "will you go hold a target at 75-100 yds" The usual answer is NO. For the record, I can keep it on a paper plate at 100 yds, some days better. I've had an amazing amount of people tell me all about reloading. I had a man tell me that reloading was illegal. He promised he wouldn't rat me out though.

[Wayne Smith]

World is full of "sexual intellectuials", better known as "F*&^%ing know it all's".

Way back in the 70's I had a guy at work bet me he would stand at 100 yards and I could'nt hit him with a 1911!!!!! He continued to run his mouth till he talked to a guy I shot with, this guy was going around taking bets! I was going to use a B-27 instead of the idiot.:Fire:[/SIZE]
Maybe Wayne the Shrink can shed some light on this ?[smilie=1:

Inexperienced wannabes who run their mouths have been around for ever. The Romans complained about them. We have, however, created a whole new species of F*&^%ing A**s in our society. Any society where fantasy trumps reality will create this new species. Video games and internet communication and 'virtual reality' experiences all replace reality with something less. Unfortunately those who have these experiences assume that their experience replicates reality and tend to act, speak, and boast on that unreality basis. As I stated, this is a whole new species and needs to be recognized as such because they are much more dangerous to society than the other, more benign, species.

[corvette8n]

I was talking to the owner of my local gun shop and he said after deer season, he gets a lot of guys wanting to trade their .270's and 30-06 for someting bigger like .338wm or .375HH, cause the deer didn't go down with the gun they used. The the next year they trade the magnum for something that dosent kick so much. what a cycle.
At least these guys keep the new calibers in business. While at the range the other day I picked up about 40 rounds of the new cabilers(7mm wsm,.325wsm etc) and threw them in the brass barrell. Not only are these experts on the leading edge, they are also slobs.

[10-x]

Wayne,
Thanks............so are you saying there are 2 kind of "sexual intellectuals" regular ole "Bubba" and perhaps a "Electronic Bubba"[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

You ever get over to the South Side of Tidewater?
Check out "Tidewater Military Traders" in Va. Beach..........long time friend owns it..............and they have gun/militaria auctions.
BTW I'm from "the peoples republic of chesapeake"........

[Thumbcocker]

Wow Wayne! A shrink who also dabbles in biology. :mrgreen: Maybe you can give more details on this new species. What is the reproductive rate? Habitat? Mating rituals? Rut period? Do they make good jerkey? And, most importantly, what is the season and bag limit?

[leftiye]

Taint biology.... Tis people getting socialized in a new way. And that taint funny. I suspect that beyond video games (virtual reality), the reality of the computer has given a world view where they are testing all of the things that commn sense and the traditional views have said don't work. An "anything goes" kind of attitude because much of what doesn't work in the real world can be made to work in the virtual or computer world. Just another term for imagination. "lets re-imagine our world" - duh.

If you think about it - that used to be danderous (probly still is?) because sucess was (is still) dependent upon understanding reality and finding solutions that would work in that framework. These guys might not even know what reality is.

[Mumblypeg]

Look at the bright side- it's clowns like these guys that keep buying the biggest and bestest and latest gizmo, gun, scope and ammo. If everyone shot cast with cheap surplus powders, brass used 10x, primers bought 10,000 at a time for cheap and all out of a $119.00 surplus rifle or $299.99 Walmart Stevens then the gun industry would collapse!

Bret's right, if it were not for these guys we wouldn't look near as smart. And how about the guy who's Grand father used to light a match at 50yards with an old front stuffer and open sights! I tried that once, found out you can't even see a match at 50yards even with young good eyes.

[26Charlie]

Fellow at the range sighting in his scoped rifle - all over the target after about 30 rounds - cranked it up but it wouldn't' go up, cranked it left but it wouldn't go left . Yep, he had the scope mounted 90 degrees off what it should have been. After I fixed that he was on in about 9 rounds. Gave me the brass, couple of boxes of new .30-06 once-fired.

Another fellow couldn't get his Ruger mini-30 to function. I looked it over, including down the bore - handed it to my teenage son and said, "Look son, heres what happens after you shoot corrosive military ammo in a rifle and don't clean it thoroughly. See all that rust in there?" Then helpfully told him how to clean it in future, and hoped he could get the rust out with a stainless steel brush. Just being tactful and helpful, thasall. Never actually said "you dummy" or anything.