Anyone still use 16:1 in .44 Magnum?

[craveman85]

Any of you guys still using 16:1 alloy for .44s? Almost everything I read on here is recommending hard alloys. I plan on using the Lee 430-310 with a gas check at around 1300 fps. Think it will hold up to those velocities?

[Dunkem]

I'm curious as well. I have always been fond of following the old ways. Especially the writings of Elmer. That's what spurred the purchase of a Lyman 429421 mold. So far I've only cast COWW+2% tin over 20gr. of 2400 through. I have accumulated a respectable stash of pure, and every time I see some pewter or solder at the thrift store I snag it just because some day I'm going to mix up a mess of 16:1.

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[Larry Gibson]

16 to 1 alloy is my preferred alloy for m Lyman Devastator HPs in my 44 magnums. I push them at 1200 to 1600 fps depending on barrel length with H110.

[Outpost75]

Keith actually considered 1:16 tin-lead as "hard" alloy. 1:20 accomplishes most tasks just fine and is suitable for full charge revolver loads. Rifle loads will require GC in full charge .44 Magnum loads.

[craveman85]

Seems like most of the lead I find in my area is pure. Either pipe or sheet. I have about enough pewter smelted to make about 1000# of 16:1.

[craveman85]

I also am going to get a Marlin 1895 cowboy soon. Im hoping that it will like the 457193 in 16:1. Don't plan on shooting that terribly fast. Probably slightly over bp levels with smokeless.

[Tripplebeards]

Here is some pics of a 270 GR Lyman devastator with a mix of 16:1 that had a BH of 7.5. I was using a Ruger 77/44 chronied at 1575fps. I PC'd and GC them. Not a lot of weight retention or penetration in my water bottle test. Think it would make a great coyote or varmint round at the velocity I was pushing it. Check out my other tests with harder alloys of 10.5 and 13.5 Bh. I also tried 50/50 and 80/20 mixes with various amounts of pewter. I think at slower velocities, 800 to 1200 fps it would shine. I would PC your boolits. I just casted some 50/50 with adding 2% pewter in some lee 310's with a BH of 10.5. With a solid, soft boolit I'm sure you would end up with a lot more weight retention. I'd like to try my 16:1 mix in my rifle with the 310's at rifle velocities but I think they would make a coffee can size hole in a whitetail. There was a post I saw here last year that some guy shot a deer with pure or close to pure GC'd out of a rifle at higher velocities and blew a monster size hole in it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=1335

[craveman85]

I thought 16:1 was supposed to fall in the 10-11 hardness range

[Tripplebeards]

I thought 16:1 was supposed to fall in the 10-11 hardness range

Yep, me too. I followed the mix as told by other posters and info I googled. I started with flooring lead with a BH of 5 and added in pewter(which should be 92% -96% tin) at a 16:1 ratio(easy math,16 lbs of pure lead and I added 1 pound of pewter). It tested at 7.5 BH. If you check past posts on this forum you'll see I'm not alone with my soft results after a 16:1 mix. If you don't own a tester and are not buying premixed 16:1 from a reliable source I'd tell you to mix 50/50 coww and pure and add 2% pewter to the mix and air cool it. It's a safe bet to get you around 10.5 BH like mine. If you want your mix at 11 or 12 I'd tell you to add 6% pewter to 50/50 and it will probably be right on the money. If you do own a tester your going to find out it's going to take a lot of pewter mixed with pure to get to 11-12 BH. I made a 89/20 mix a few weeks ago ACCOWW and pure and added 6% to the total weight I melted. My coww by itself tested 13.4 BH. My 80/20 mix was 13.5 a few days after testing. Pewter will give you a harder BH in the end it just depends how much your going to need to use to get there. BTW check out my mushroom from the 80/20 mix. From what I've seen straight coww shed their pedals at the same BH. Pewter from what I understand markets you're alloy more malleable so it mushrooms and keeps your boolit in one piece...till you get to higher velocities like I'm doing. If you check out my above link you can see how the 50/50 mix held up in my devastator at a full throttle load of w296.

[craveman85]

I won't be shooting hollow points. Probably just deer and hopefully bear with flat nose bullets. Maybe they'll hold together enough to give me reliable exits on black bear sized game.

[Tripplebeards]

Black bear aren't any different than deer. I've harvested them with bow and arrow and rifles. The biggest issue is choosing a boolit that will make a big exit hole or the fat will clog it up preventing blood trails. I shoot both the Lee 310 and devastator. I'd rather use a hp devastator on a black bear IMO. I'd rather have a boolit expand causing trauma and make a big exit vs using a hard boolit that is going to poke a hole in and out. I watched 13 bear get harvested in one season. I've seen black bears hit with hard bullets and they run like they've never been hit and the dogs chasing them got killed and tore up. Soft bullets shock and cause trama giving every opportunity to drop them on the spot. To each his own...and I dont hunt with dogs any more, but that's another subject. Just trying to give you an idea on how soft lead will expand. I think a soft boolit in a 310 will give you a heck of a mushroom. I believe your in the right track to cast soft like the 16:1 alloy.

[sqlbullet]

The only reason I would look beyond a BHN of about 12-14 is if I had bullets that stripped the rifling. I have never experienced that so I am kinda done with "hard cast" alloys by the modern definitions. Linotype makes beautiful bullets, but is too rich for my wallet.

As far as what is recommended around here...Be sure to look at post counts of the "recommender" and pay attention to guys who provide real world examples from their own experience. Larry Gibson is a man I have never met, but years of reading his posts mean I definitely listen when he talks. And you will find that these guys rarely think harder is better. BHN 12-14 is hard enough to solve about any problem.

The real magic of 16:1, as tripplebeards picture shows, is not it's absolute hardness, but it's toughness, or malleability. The alloy sticks together in a way that antimony hardened lead will not.

I have about 100 lbs of tin solder I got in trade 7-8 years back. I use it under two conditions.

First, if I am not getting fill out and my temps are right. I will add an ounce at at a time to a 20 lb pot and re-test, up to 3 ounces. If 1% tin doesn't fix my fill out then it isn't the flowability of the lead at issue.

Second, if I am casting hollow points that may be pressed into service to hunt or for personal defense. In this case I want 2-3% tin in the alloy. I don't mind 2% or so of antimony if it is already there, but antimony with 1% or less tin often is too brittle for hollow point bullets to hold together properly at the end of the line. Practice/target rounds I actually prefer to be brittle in case I shoot steel plates with them, or in case they hit a rock.

[Tripplebeards]

Larry has been helping me along with my alloy choices and alloy mixes with my hollow points. Hes the hollow point/alloy guru!


Yes, I don't have as many post...so that makes me a newbie.lol

My earlier point as I stated above is to make sure you buy a BH tester if your going to try a mix 16:1 using pewter because as I found out you don't always get the hardness your aiming for and you'll never know till you test it. As a new caster last year I thought the same...I had 11 BH mixed alloy until I tested it. Just trying to save you the same frustrating results as I had. It's good to ask questions but in the end your just going to have to test yourself like I did to get the correct answers instead of everyone's opinions. Larry is an excellent resource.

I started casting last year and placed a couple of posts asking how to mix 16:1 and then again why my 16:1 mix ended up at only 7.5 BH. After a lot of head scratching from experienced members here from the replies what I got out of the post was using pewter instead of pure tin is a guessing game. That's why you want a tester. I'm just trying to help you with the information I've acquired over the last year testing. Good luck and happy casting!

[fredj338]

I use 20-1 for LHP @ higher vel. If I need a harder bullet & start adding clip ww & water drop.

[Lloyd Smale]

16-1 is pretty close to ww in hardness. I don't use it because tin at about 10 bucks a lb makes it a lot more expensive then plain ww which most times I can get for free.

[Larry Gibson]

I won't be shooting hollow points. Probably just deer and hopefully bear with flat nose bullets. Maybe they'll hold together enough to give me reliable exits on black bear sized game.

They will hold together. Testing expansion in water gives more expansion that does flesh and bone. Unless you're using a control bullet of known performance in game shot into the same test media (water in the above results) then the resulting over/under expansion can be misleading. As Tripplebeards mentions, bears can take some punishment but really aren't "tougher" than deer. I also prefer the expansion of a well cast bullet's terminal affect on game.

[white eagle]

16/1 is my preferred alloy for the 250 gr slugs
and heavier that I use in my 44
comes with some fine recommendations from some
notable characters and some not so notable
I also use it in my 475 Linebaugh
save the hard stuff for more velocity hungry rounds

[Tripplebeards]

Here's the post I put up with my 16:1 mix. Hope it helps so you wont make the same mistake I did. Some day I'll figure out how to mix pure lead with tin to get to 11 BH. I think the answer would have been mixing a few more pounds of pewter in my mix. At the cost of tin/pewter it was more economical for me to mix 50/50 with adding 2% pewter and get close to the same BH. I'm sure someone more experienced will chime in but I would assume the expansion properties between the two alloy mixes are very similar.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339450-16-1-cure-time/page3

[craveman85]

All I have is pewter no straight tin. Up to about 80lbs now

[Tripplebeards]

I tested my 7.5 bh (failed 16:1 mix) devastator HP at a 100 yards today out of my ruger 77/44 using 21 gr of H110 with a mv of 1675fps. It may be soft but its an accurate boolit! Im going to have to try it out and harvest an animal with it now instead of killing trees.

https://i.imgur.com/5Ux6HKm.jpg

[Harry O]

I don't mind 2% or so of antimony if it is already there, but antimony with 1% or less tin often is too brittle for hollow point bullets to hold together properly at the end of the line.

I totally agree on this. High antimony/low tin bullets are bad news. My rule of thumb is put as much tin in a bullet as there is antimony already in there. I know some people here put one-half the amount of tin as there is antimony. If it works for them, great. I had some failures with high antimony/low tin bullets and am sticking with equal amounts of tin and antimony from now on.

[White Oak]

I have a devastator Mold on the way for my 44 Redhawk. I have a good amount of pure lead and about 10 pounds of pewter. I am going to give the 16:1 a try. Looking for a good deer load.

[Tripplebeards]

Here's another good read from the archives. Sounds like 16:1 isn't 11 BH and closer to 8-8.5 so my mix wasn't that far off.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?90915-16-to-1-lead-tin