The trialsof a NewBee slug shooter

[gpidaho]

Well friends, most of you who post in these threads know I'm pretty new to this shotgun slug shooting. I do read a lot here and am excited to be participating in a new to me adventure. There's a lot I don't know and a few things I don't even suspect. Case in point. I recently purchased a rifled barrel for my 11-87 Remington 20ga. and mounted up a Vortex Strikefire dot sight. "Let's get this bad boy sighted in" I think and off to the range I go with two boxes (five count) of Federal 3/4 oz. rifled slugs. WHAT A MESS I haven't leaded a bore so completely in years. Not flakes of lead, strips of lead. I've cleaning patched with Hoppe's, brass brushed and pushed patches of Birchwood Casey lead removing cloth down the bore ten times and not near cleaned out. You would think @ $1.25 a round Federal could build a better round. It took only seven rounds to make this mess. I've been powder coating most of my rifle and pistol bullets the last three years and I'm thinking it may be a good idea for shotgun slugs and round balls also. Done with the rant, back to the lead mine. Gp

[Smoke4320]

I'm thinking it may be a good idea for shotgun slugs and round balls also. Done with the rant, back to the lead mine. Gp

Funny you should say that I even PC my muzzleloader bullets ..

[Tripplebeards]

I have a stainless with camo stock savage 220 20 gauge that I bedded. It will shoot one big tear measuring .7" 100 yard groups using Remington 3 " accu tips. I tried a lot of different brand sabot type expensive slugs and would get anywhere from 1.5 to 2 3/4" groups. The 220 is probably one of the most accurate slug guns out there. I haven't tried cast through it and probably never will. I bought it to hunt out of state in shotgun only territory. They've since changed the rules so I can hunt with my 450 bushmaster so the 220 collects dust. Shame I have a whole case of 3" accutips.

[foesgth]

Well Mr. Smoke I just tried to tumble some Lee Keydrive slugs. They coat nicely with your powder(you knew they would). However the inside cavity packs with the powder. I tried to hold them in my tweezers and bang them to get the powder out, it is still there. I am hitting them as hard as I can without knocking them out of the tweezers. If you are coating slugs are you just leaving the powder in the cavity?

[dsh1106]

Well Mr. Smoke I just tried to tumble some Lee Keydrive slugs. They coat nicely with your powder(you knew they would). However the inside cavity packs with the powder. I tried to hold them in my tweezers and bang them to get the powder out, it is still there. I am hitting them as hard as I can without knocking them out of the tweezers. If you are coating slugs are you just leaving the powder in the cavity?

Did you try low pressure air ?

[Hogtamer]

You have a friend in Dennis aka Uncle Dino a VS here. His plastic base slugs are awesome, accurate killers. The lead slug is a few thou smaller than the plastic base solving your leading problem. At $25 per 50 order a hundred and they'll be there by the time you get your barrel clean. i drive my 20 ga from my savage 220 near 1700 fps with L'il Gun and they will shoot better than you with a red dot. My first excursion with them hunting last year netted 5 pigs, two of them in one shot. See thread Hamicide! http://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/209/shotgun-slugs.

[Tripplebeards]

Well Mr. Smoke I just tried to tumble some Lee Keydrive slugs. They coat nicely with your powder(you knew they would). However the inside cavity packs with the powder. I tried to hold them in my tweezers and bang them to get the powder out, it is still there. I am hitting them as hard as I can without knocking them out of the tweezers. If you are coating slugs are you just leaving the powder in the cavity?

After tumbling I drop the boolits in an empty Tupperware container and bounce a few times. It removes the excess PC build up.

[gpidaho]

Scott: Maybe some high pressure air while looking closely so not to blow the powder off the outer edges. LOL Seriously, a lot of PC problems can be overcome simply by applying the powder as it was designed to work, using the electrostatic gun. Base guns are not expensive and work very well. I've used my Eastwood basic for a couple of years and am very happy with the results. With the slugs sitting on their hollow bases little to no powder gets in the hollow base. Gp

[dsh1106]

Scott: Maybe some high pressure air while looking closely so not to blow the powder off the outer edges. LOL Seriously, a lot of PC problems can be overcome simply by applying the powder as it was designed to work, using the electrostatic gun. Base guns are not expensive and work very well. I've used my Eastwood basic for a couple of years and am very happy with the results. With the slugs sitting on their hollow bases little to no powder gets in the hollow base. Gp

I like my Eastwood setup as well, I think most here tumble for the ease of application.

[Blood Trail]

Well friends, most of you who post in these threads know I'm pretty new to this shotgun slug shooting. I do read a lot here and am excited to be participating in a new to me adventure. There's a lot I don't know and a few things I don't even suspect. Case in point. I recently purchased a rifled barrel for my 11-87 Remington 20ga. and mounted up a Vortex Strikefire dot sight. "Let's get this bad boy sighted in" I think and off to the range I go with two boxes (five count) of Federal 3/4 oz. rifled slugs. WHAT A MESS I haven't leaded a bore so completely in years. Not flakes of lead, strips of lead. I've cleaning patched with Hoppe's, brass brushed and pushed patches of Birchwood Casey lead removing cloth down the bore ten times and not near cleaned out. You would think @ $1.25 a round Federal could build a better round. It took only seven rounds to make this mess. I've been powder coating most of my rifle and pistol bullets the last three years and I'm thinking it may be a good idea for shotgun slugs and round balls also. Done with the rant, back to the lead mine. Gp

I think that's your problem. You're shooting soft lead foster slugs through a rifled barrel. That will do it every time. PC may indeed work. Looking forward to your results.

[W.R.Buchanan]

+1 for Eastwoods gun mine works very well. I havent't done any slugs or balls yet but it sounds like fun.

GP: were the slugs lubed? if not then PC would fix the problem, as nothing leads with PC on it.

Randy

[Smoke4320]

Well Mr. Smoke I just tried to tumble some Lee Keydrive slugs. They coat nicely with your powder(you knew they would). However the inside cavity packs with the powder. I tried to hold them in my tweezers and bang them to get the powder out, it is still there. I am hitting them as hard as I can without knocking them out of the tweezers. If you are coating slugs are you just leaving the powder in the cavity?

try 3 paper bowls or a Cool whip container with 1/4 inch holes drilled Inside to outside
Drop your slugs in there shake, rattle, and roll a few times and all the excess powder "should" come out

[gpidaho]

Randy; No, the slugs in my sight-in attempt were factory rifled slugs by Federal. They were soft lead and unlubed. It was just a dumb Donkey mistake on my part. Being new to this I didn't realize that shooting them out of a rifled barrel wasn't the best idea. Any future slugs that are full bore will be powder coated. I believe in the absence of a sabot or a shot wad covering the projectile that powder coating would be the best option to prevent leading. I've used powder coating on 90% of my rifle and pistol bullets for the past two or three years and am sold on the process. I'm starting to catch on with this RB and slug shooting. WHAT A HOOT! I had a great range day today, everything worked well. I picked up a Caldwell Lead Sled and that really takes the bite out of 12ga. loads. My light break barrel 12ga. will heard the slugs in the general direction but the new rifled 20ga. barrel for my Rem. 11-87 is something! It has a Strike Fire Vortex dot sight and I'm impressed. The Hammerhead slugs are accurate but expensive (They shoot real well) What stood out today were the .562 RB's. With the wad and nitro card stack posted by A.J. they shot as well as the hammerheads. THANK YOU A.J. I'll post a target next trip out. It took most of the rounds today fine tuning the sight. Thanks to all on this these shotgun threads. You've all been a big help. Gp

[Hogtamer]

And that wimpy little 20 ga RB load is equivalent to a full power 44 mag in weight and depending on your load, greater velocity. Serious medicine!

[gpidaho]

I got my slug order from Uncle Dino yesterday. The 20ga. slugs with the attached plastic wad. I weighed them and they are within a few grains of the Lyman sabot slugs. Could I use the Lyman slug powder charge minus a grain as a start load? Gp

[Hogtamer]

pm sent

[gpidaho]

Thanks for the PM's Hal. Your PM box is full. I'll give the load a try and let you know how it works out. Gp

[Hogtamer]

cleared now

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Gpidaho, we had great fun developing the 20 ga RB load, nothing but fun yet deadly.
https://i.imgur.com/Kn6viTP.jpg
As we kept raising the charge by 1/2 gr the impact kept coming up like this, you can download to teach kids and your wife to learn to shoot and come up to 1600, 1700, 1800 and above fps.
Always aim for heavy bones, the RB loves to crush bones like a bulldozer ! !

Can you please post a picture of your load set-up.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[gpidaho]

A.J. What is it you'd like in the picture? I'm using Mec 600 Jr.'s and a Lee Load All II I have a Lee Loader in 12 ga. and one in 20 on the way from ebay. My load stack in the 20 RB mirrors yours. Let me know and I'll try to get a picture posted. Thanks again for all your help. I'm hooked now. Gp

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Gpidaho, remain hooked as I was getting bored, I can't read English therefore love to see things through pictures, this language everyone understands and less chances of making mistakes for my other brothers who come looking for ideas. You did make me feel good, all my efforts did not go waste after all, Thank you.
https://i.imgur.com/fLarCGc.jpg
The only thing I'll change is instead of two .125-28 ga I'll use two and a half for even a better fit.
https://i.imgur.com/ymo49kN.jpg
Your possibilities are endless:
https://i.imgur.com/oYc3768.jpg
Thank you.

Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings GP, I am happy for you having the 20 ga Rifled High Power Nitro Express.
Just imagine a heavy game load like this baby, if and when need be !
https://i.imgur.com/9sFg1Qa.jpg
Sure is mouth watering.
https://i.imgur.com/m6TbyUu.jpg
Some not so Hot loads
https://i.imgur.com/P0FGw21.jpg
Order that Lee mold from MidSouth for $18 plus as prices are going up !
https://i.imgur.com/Uxq4SNq.jpg

I'm taking the liberty to post the .575" RB load here too.
https://i.imgur.com/gfK7kCT.jpg
**--** The picture of .575" RB of 285 gr above, I would only change is in stead of two nitro cards below the RB in wad I'll add yet another 1/2 card more to make it 2 1/2 nitro cards below the RB for even a better fit !
This load is a .44 mag 240 grain full load on " Steroids "
Use it to your advantage.

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[longbow]

I don't know how I missed this old thread and I am sure gp has things worked out by now but...

I have had no problem with leading using either pure lead for Lyman Foster slugs (which I hate and do not use any more) or with bore diameter round balls or even factory loaded slug rounds or factory made slugs.

I know some people do but so far in both smoothbore and a rifled gun I borrowed I have had no leading at all. My Browning BPS was used quite a bit with Lyman Foster slugs when I first started this quest many, many years ago and while they shot poorly I got no leading. I moved to bore diameter round balls more recently when I reinitiated the quest using 0.735" RB's cast from either range scrap or clip on WW. Again unlubricated and no leading at all in my single shot smoothbore or borrowed rifled gun. I shot hundreds through the smoothbore and mostly in batches of at least 25 and sometimes as many as 50 at a time. The rifled gun got 15 rounds through it with no sign of leading.

I'm sure for the round balls and recent bore diameter slugs cast from hard lead, that helps.

hard to lube factory slugs unless you use a waxy lube into the roll crimped case mouth but home cast or loaded slugs can be tumble lubed, rolled in graphite or maybe mica, paper patched and any of those should help minimize or eliminate leading.

Alternately wad slugs or balls in wads keep the lead off the bore. Seems that round balls in wads need to be a tight fit to give good accuracy in rifled guns likely due to small bearing area and skidding in the wad if not really tight. They do pretty well in smoothbore as long as they aren't a rattle fit in the wad/bore.

Ajay's pic above looks as though those .575" RB's are a good fit as they bulge the wad petals.

I am probably preaching to the converted by now.

Longbow

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning, shooters with proper rifled barrel sure have an edge for 285 gr RB and 450 to 460 gr Heavy High Power Super Nitro Express loads of the future.
We need now is the gun manufacturers to pay close attention to our needs like:
A. We need our 20 ga Nitro Express barrels be fluted, in SS 26 inch and at muzzle to measure .880" / 12 ga to measure 1 inch !
Proof tested to up to 26.000 PSI
https://i.imgur.com/4FYCBCc.jpg

B. We need our Super Nitro Express guns to have deeper rifling, groove diameter was 0.729" and land diameter was 0.705".
https://i.imgur.com/dDqQGfK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o5FBstE.jpg

C. We need our Super Nitro Express hulls beefed up a bit so as not to bulge under pressure during final fold crimping stage.
Right where the PVC ring is being used to help support the hull.
https://i.imgur.com/9cfLU8C.jpg

D. Our components need to be sized for proper fit so as not to let the powder seep through and cause blow-by gases effect.
We have been made a fool for too long with sub standard parts !
https://i.imgur.com/UBdqB4H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/l62z793.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aTDt8o2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SuvAoWU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2OijjLc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oweYmlm.jpg

All we need is simple fine tuning of our newer breed of Super High Power Nitro Express guns and re-enforced components to fit well ! !
Those were my last 2 cents, now " I'm broke "

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Greg5278]

Why do We need a Fluted Barrel?
The Rifling shown grabs Sabots and Slugs well if it is continuous Rifling, not Paradox style.
Most Rifling is .004-.005" in Depth. The Paradox has much deeper rifling, and much less cross section on the Lands.
I have a slow twist 12 ga that has a good bit of taper in the bore and .012" deep Rifling.

Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[longbow]

Greg:

Where did you get that barrel with slow twist 0.012" deep rifling made?

I checked several barrel or gun makers looking for .73 cal. rifle barrels with slow twist and deep rifling and they all thought I was nuts! Including Pacific Rifle who made 12 ga. slow twist barrels for their Zephyr under hammer muzzleloader.

I wound up making a rifling machine for doing choke tubes with 1:72" rifling I had planned to cut with narrow lands and wide deep grooves. It worked when I bored and rifled some 3/4" pipe but when I got a blank choke tube and bored it to size then started rifling the cutter (Toad Hall style multi tooth) wasn't aggressive enough on the hard stainless steel choke tube so wasn't making much progress. So I made a new single point hook cutter that worked better but wound up grabbing and jamming in place! In getting it free I lost tube position (timing) without realizing it and munched the rifling I'd started. BAH! I may be able to salvage it but just haven't gotten back to it.

My goal was a deep rifled, slow twist choke tube for, hopefully Paradox, style results. I may get back to it yet but if I could buy a section of slow twist rifled barrel I would just make the choke tube from that.

Anyway, if you have a name, I would check that out. If affordable I'd order some rifled blank barrel.

Longbow