My 3D Printed Extended Magazines

[HollowPoint]

A little over a month ago I finally got the money together to buy/invest in my first 3D printer. The learning curve is kind of steep but I've finally gotten to where I've started getting some decent prints out of it; not perfect prints just decent usable prints.

Thus far I've managed to design and print some new peep sights for my Umarex Gauntlet PCP air rifle, Peeps sights for my break barrel air rifles along with a replacement shroud/suppressor for one of these break barrel air rifles and now I've started in on some extended magazines for my K31 Swiss rifle. If I measured correctly it should have a capacity of between 10 to 12 rounds depending on how much room my mag-spring takes up; possibly one or two more rounds.

I printed the first prototype yesterday. The finish on it was actually very good but, I found out when I went to try to insert it into the magazine well that the K31 magazine is tapered toward the front end. My mistake was measuring the width at the back end and thinking that the front end was the same dimension. A rookie mistake if I ever saw one.

You realize how incredibly frustrating that was when you factor in the time it took to finish that print. My second prototype is printing even as I write this initial post. Would anyone care to guess how long it takes to print just the main body of the magazine? Anybody?

It took just under 7 hours to print just the main body of this extended magazine. I haven't made up the follower yet but I have finished the floor plate and the slip-on bottom cap. I'm wanting to first get the main body fitting right and then fiddle around with the side latch until I get that just right so that it stays put when the mag is inserted. I'm going to have to make my own mag-springs for this so that's going to take some trial and error to get it right but, that's just par for the course. I'm sure there's a mathematical formula for this kind of stuff but I SUCK at math so I'm stuck with trial and error.

I really hope I can get this home made magazine to work reliably cause I'd like to make one for my Lee Enfield as well. A short little banana-type of magazine for my Enfield shorty would be just the ticket to make it look unique. I was afraid that the weak link in such a 3D printed magazine would be the very thin walls of these plastic magazines but when printed at 100 percent infill they are actually fairly rigid. In order for it to break you have to make a concerted effort to break it. I'll also be making up a set of 3D printed Peep Sights for this same K31 as well. I need to find some exact measurements of one of those aftermarket Bolt-On scope mount for the K31. I want to use the same type of securing method that attaches to the right side of the reciever. I've found photos online of this scope mount but nothing that I can get any good measurements off of. If any of you guys have one of these laying around perhaps you'd be kind enough to send me some closeup pics with measurements mainly of the area where the screw goes through and attaches.

I'll post some pics once I get farther along. I've already posted a few pics of my 3D printed air gun projects over on the air guns section of this forum. If you get a chance you can take a look. I'll generally post my CAD renderings just to show what I was aiming for and then after I've had time to fine tune my 3D prints I'll post the finished product.

I'm not printing these things for sale. It just takes to long to print up anything I've designed so a profit motive of things I've made is out of the question but at some point I do intend to start offering the STL files for sale to other like minded 3Ders who are also gun enthusiasts.

Sorry to leave you with no pics this time around but they will be forthcoming.

HollowPoint

[am44mag]

This sounds very interesting. Any idea as to how well they would hold up to recoil and heavy use?

[bangerjim]

Sounds like a fun project. I have been looking at 3D printers and my son has too. Not for gun stuff, but other items and parts needed around my machine and wood shops.

Remember, we here in AZ can buy ANY size mag we want at most gun shows. Even those HUGE drum mags for 9mm's!!!!!! I have all sizes and lengths for my semi guns that use mags. Got them at local gun shows (NOT stores...too $$) any time I need more. Just saying....you are devoting a ton of time to designing and printing those things (let alone fab'ing the springs) that are all over the place at AZ shows....in METAL. But that is what hobbies are for, right?!?!?!?

Many states will not allow large cap mags anymore. Totally silly. OMG.......here come the loony-left liber-tart gun/mag grabbers again! Just be glad we do not live in CA.

Good luck and hope they hold up under fire. Looking forward to seeing pix of your finished items.

bangerjim

[HollowPoint]

This sounds very interesting. Any idea as to how well they would hold up to recoil and heavy use?

I don't really know how or if they'll hold up under load and recoil. I have identified what I think will be the weakest link in the whole assembly of components used in this project. That weakness is found in the latch that pivots on the side of the mag-body. Not only the pivot point but the upper part of the latch where it actually catches the reciever to hold the loaded magazine in place in the mag-well.

I'm still going to try it using the printed ABS plastic but if something's going to break my guess is that this will be where it comes apart on me. I most likely will be able to use all the components as printed but the latch will have to me machined out of metal. You'll see what I'm talking about when I post the pics of the components.

I've never heard of extended magazines for K31 rifles or Lee Enfield rifles made of metal or plastic but truth be told, I've never looked for them either. Since self-sufficiency is the name of the game, I'd like to be able to make my own just like I make my own ammo.

HollowPoint

[Grmps]

Don't want to be the gloomy-guss , but... I fear the mouths will spread apart if you put any kind of pressure on them :(

[HollowPoint]

Don't want to be the gloomy-guss , but... I fear the mouths will spread apart if you put any kind of pressure on them :(

You could be right. On the other hand, you could be wrong. I don't really know myself and the only way to find out is to try. The lips of these plastic home made magazines feel pretty rigid to me but I suppose if enough heat is generated in the chamber it could spread back to the area of the magazine and possibly affect the configuration of the lips of the magazine.

Once I've had the chance to test the function and durability of the ABS plastic I may be able to figure out a way of modifying that area of the magazine if need be. I just don't know until I've tried it.

HollowPoint

[samari46]

Have you figured out how to make the curved tabs at the front of the lee Enfield mag?. Sometimes if you have an enfield with mismatched mag you have to bend those tabs to get the cartridges to feed properly. Too high and it hits the bolt face too low won't feed the cartridges properly. Had a mag I bought at a gun show which almost made me want to just eat the cost due to those darn tabs. After messing with it got so disgusted just left it sit for a few weeks and finally hit the magic adjustment. Frank

[Rcmaveric]

With a 3D printer the possibilities are endless. Imagine the cheap the reloading tools you can now make. I keep wondering why no one is making plastic case gauges or go/no go gauges.

I think your 3d printed mags will work good. Look at the magpro mags. They are mostly plastic, only thing metal on it is the spring. When you finish that search thing verse for reloading, they even have a COL gauge. I lack the skills and equipment but you can now make thousands of dollars worth of equipment for cheap. I have book mark of things and a list of ideas for a friend at work that runs a side business in 3D printing.

[Johnch]

Nice
My Brother 3D printed me some plastic bullets

They shot pretty well at 600 FPS

But he had to try for 900 FPS in his 9mm and that didn't work LOL

John

[HollowPoint]

Have you figured out how to make the curved tabs at the front of the lee Enfield mag?. Sometimes if you have an enfield with mismatched mag you have to bend those tabs to get the cartridges to feed properly. Too high and it hits the bolt face too low won't feed the cartridges properly. Had a mag I bought at a gun show which almost made me want to just eat the cost due to those darn tabs. After messing with it got so disgusted just left it sit for a few weeks and finally hit the magic adjustment. Frank

My Lee Enfield project is just something on my list of things I want to try to print. I haven't actually started drawing up any models or anything like that but I'm sure it will be somewhat similar to the present K31 mag project I'm working on now. Thanks for the heads up on the "Curved Tabs" issues. Now I'll have something to keep an eye out for.

With my K31 Magazine build I took careful measurements where I could but I just eyeballed the angles on the factory mag and transferred those angles onto my CAD models. A side by side look at the factory mag and the 3D printed mag seems to indicate that it's pert-near a dead-nuts match but I'll have to wait and see when I go to cycle the action with some live or dummy rounds in the magazine. I actually held the plastic mag and the factory mag side by side to check. I also held them front to back and back to front in order to look down the length to compare the angles of the feed lips. Right now their pretty darn close but, as you've indicated even a very slight difference can mean success or failure.

I haven't really looked into some of the stuff that other 3D print folks have come up with in regard to firearms related creations. I'm tempted to do that but I think I'll wait till I've completed my own items. This way it can't be said that I've stolen anyone else's ideas. Although, this is generally the consensus whenever two or more individuals happen to come up with the same ideas. This is where that spoof line, "Great Minds Tend To Think Alike" comes from. The problem is that some of these great minds can tend to be jealous minds when it comes to their creations.

I do have my own list of things I want to try which includes an adjustable pellet sizer die I want to make for myself. I shoot the cheapest pellets I can buy most of the times and those cheap pellets are not all the same with respect to their outside dimensions. That's where this pellet sizer would come into its own; I think.


HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

My second attempt at 3D printing my K31 12 round extended magazine needed alot of tweaking via a file, some sandpaper and some foul language. I got it to work but my real objective was to get a useable print straight out of the printer with a minimum of post-print work.

I've made the needed tweaks to my CAD models and I'm thinking that the third time will be the charm. The problem with my second print attempt was that I hadn't allowed for the slight curvature on the underside of my K31 right where the magazine well is. The filing and sanding and cussing took care of that problem.

I do think I'm going to have to make my mag spring out of a slightly larger diameter of music-wire but other than that all of the other components appear to be working with only a minimum of post-print cleanup. The three images below include two of my CAD Renderings (as this project was intended to look) and one image of the second 3D print attempt. The plastic powder/dust sprinkled on some of the darker components was due to me being in to much of a hurry to get these pictures posted so I could get back to work.

The problems I encounter with projects like this are generally always due to me being in to much of a hurry. I can't help it. My spare time is at a minimum most of the time so I have to hurry up or I may not get the chance to do any projects outside of my income producing work. I'll be glad when I can retire. Maybe I'll have a little more free time then but, I won't be holding my breath on that. Most of the guys I know who are retired tell me the same thing whenever I see them.

"I'm busier now than I was before I retired."

This project is looking like it might very well work out for me. I mentioned before that I'd like next to print up a good set of peep sights. I was thinking about just using the same design I used on my air rifles but now I'm thinking I can just as easily reproduce a copy of those over priced "St. Marie" adjustable peep sights. If that works out for me too I'll offer the STL files for free to anyone who may be interested in printing up their own set of peep sights. I prefer my own design because several of my rifles have this type of peep sight and I've become accustomed to using them. My only reason for doing a copy of the high end Peeps is due to an arrogant comment made by the schmuck over at the Swiss Rifle forum when I enquired about the mounting method used by them and any other maker of after market scope mounts and peep sights. They seemed to find it humorous and somehow offensive that I would dare to ask about such things.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

It turned out that, "The Third Time Was NOT The Charm." It actually took a fourth attempt after tweaking and re-tweaking my CAD models. I finally got it to work. :-D

I mentioned in my previous post that I had identified a potential weak link in the design. That was the thin area of the latch-claw where it catches on the reciever to hold the loaded magazine in place so as not to slide downward and out of position to align the cartridges for the bolt-head to push forward. I've tested several magazines full since posting this video; not actually firing the rounds, just cycling the action. So far it seems to be holding with no breakage or signs of ill-effect on the plastic claw.

This is a low quality and very short video that I had to butcher up even further to get it to fall within the time parameter restrictions for uploading to my Instagram account. I suck as a videographer but it's good enough to prove my concept and to prove that it actually works for me. I'm loading the magazine with some reloaded cast lead 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridges. Some of you may remember about a year and a half ago I got a wild hair up my butt and decided to re-barrel and rechamber my K31 in the Swedish Mauser chambering. I liked the mild recoil so much that I bought a Tikka rifle in the same chambering so now I'm thinking of returning the my K31 back to its' native chambering.

I still have all the original components in my storage closet so it should be a snap to put it all back to original. I don't really need two different rifles chambered in the same cartridge. I'm sure this 3D printed Extended magazine will work just as well with the slightly larger diameter 7.5x55 round as it does with the Swedish Mauser cartridge; probably even better cause one of the down sides to these thin walled plastic mags is the fact that with the magazine itself out of the rifle and full of cartridges, the walls of the magazine tend to expand. This spreads the mag-lips just enough to allow the smaller diameter shells to want to push up and out under the pressure of the mag-spring.

I'm fairly sure that the very slight difference/larger dimensions of the native K31 cartridge will not allow the loaded rounds to want to creep up and out of the plastic magazine on their own. If they did still tend to want to do that, simple thumb and fore-finger pressure at the top of the magazine as it's being loaded into the mag-well will keep it from happening. The magazine's outside dimensions are such the they are just a fraction smaller than the inside dimensions of the mag-well. Once the magazine is locked into the mag-well I've had virtually no problems.


I'm thinking that 3D printing this same magazine design with one of the more rigid yet flexible filaments like the carbon-fiber type, should make this an outstanding combination. That type of filament is more expensive and I'm chronically cheap so unless I find this type of "Better" 3D print filament for a cheaper price, I'll stick with ABS for now.

HollowPoint


https://youtu.be/b2VP5cp9W6g

[DCM]

Very interesting, Thanks for sharing!

[Mr_Sheesh]

HollowPoint if you do need math help, I'm pretty fair at it; Can work you up formulas to help. (If my inbox fills up, just give me a few hours, spare time's been LOW lately. And I'm taking tomorrow OFF. LOL) There are higher temperature and lower temperature filaments, PLA tends to get melty in a hot car so it'd be a bad option, there are some newer filaments including High Temp PLA. If you use ABS you can vapor treat it to unify and strengthen it, that might help you. (PLA takes some NASTY chemical, acetone for ABS is not nearly as nasty!)

[HollowPoint]

HollowPoint if you do need math help, I'm pretty fair at it; Can work you up formulas to help. (If my inbox fills up, just give me a few hours, spare time's been LOW lately. And I'm taking tomorrow OFF. LOL) There are higher temperature and lower temperature filaments, PLA tends to get melty in a hot car so it'd be a bad option, there are some newer filaments including High Temp PLA. If you use ABS you can vapor treat it to unify and strengthen it, that might help you. (PLA takes some NASTY chemical, acetone for ABS is not nearly as nasty!)

I was skimming over some of the Carbon Fiber filament being sold on Ebay. I went ahead and ordered a roll of cheap Chinese carbon fiber 3D print filament. It will most likely take a month to get to my place but now I can test my theory about that particular filament possibly being better suited for this magazine application.

In regard to my "Mathematically-Challenged" conundrum, I may have sounded like I was just kidding but I've never been particularly good at any type of mathematics. At one time in my past I dreamed of studying to become an engineer but in my mind I knew I could never pass the mathematics part of such studies. It never stopped me from dreaming up projects to build but out of necessity I had to become as proficient as possible at being a "Trial-And-Error" and "Eye-Baller" type of tinkerer/builder/inventor.

Funny thing is that I've been self-employed for most of my adult life. People have asked me, "If you're so bad at math, how do you figure out the bill for your customers?" I just tell them that I charge using even numbers so I don't have to fumble around with fractions and such. It's good to know now that there's someone on here that is willing to help me with my math if I get stuck needing some answers in that department. To me, some of the higher mathematics is like trying to read Egyptian heiroglyphs. I can't understand those either.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

HollowPoint - I hear you. A friend is "Lysdexic" (dyslexic) and not so good at math, as well as color blind. And he's good at soldering (he's done avionics repair for work in the past - he's GOOD at it.) He's a few years older than I am; I help him out pretty often, in return he watches for things I need as he hits the local thrifts and so on. My knees scream profanity at me if I walk too much in a day. (After camping I always plan 2-3 days off, to recover.) I'm trained in Electrical Engineering, with lots of Geology and Geophysics and Chemistry knowledge - I do stuff from simple equations up with ease, things like Tensor Calc not so much ease. (That's used for calculating river flows, airflow around a wing or projectile, or the like.) And I wish I could find someone good with some arkane fields in math, not yet. So it's easy for me, unless I have a bad headache.

I hadn't seen the Carbon Fiber filament yet; I have a good 3d printer (MendelMax) that was willed to me, reworking the place so I can set it up and use it, it was sorta in parts when I got it, so I'll learn a lot getting it going. That's interesting filament! I'll have to read up :)

If I could, I'd 3d print one of the airguns used in the Lewis and Clark expedition (that'd be FUN to shoot!) but I don't think the materials are up to making a usable one of those, yet; A non shooting replica would be an interesting wall piece though :)

[HollowPoint]

Once you get your 3D printer up and running maybe I can send you the STL file of this magazine and its' components and you can print one out and test it in your K31. (I'm assuming that you own a K31) It would be nice to get confirmation from another 3D printer that this design actually works across the board with all K31s.

I found out yesterday when I tried cycling my K31s' action with a full magazine that it no longer cycled like it did the day I made that short video. It took me a while to figure out the problem. It turned out that the claw on the latch that secures the magazine in position was about 1/16" to high. When I initially inserted the 3D printed magazine it would reach the correct position but then the slight jolt of cycling the first round into the chamber caused the magazine to drop down about 1/16" so that mean that the bolt head was 1/16" higher than the top round in the magazine so it could not push the round forward and out of the magazine.

I'll print a couple more of those latches but this time I'll leave the claw-section of the latch filled in with ABS plastic and just manually cut that claw notch. From there I can draw up a more accurate CAD model and then print it out. I should be good to go then; at least till that Carbon Fiber filament shows up; then I'll have to go through the process of figuring out the right 3D print recipe that will give me some decent prints using that material. It's kind of like working up the right loads for a rifle except that I'm working up a print recipe for my specific 3D printer.

HollowPoint

[samari46]

Have to ask this question regarding the different plastics available for 3d printers. Are there many types to choose from or are you limited by what is available from the company that makes the printers?. As you can see I know absolutely squat about 3d printers and the plastics that they use. Are there plastics for high stress applications and other uses. This from a guy still trying to figure out how to set up a $10 buck chinese alarm clock. electronics and math foreign words in my vocabulary. I consider myself electronically challenged and mathamatically challenged as well. Didn't do great in math in high school barely passed. Loved the teacher who used to say that one would do well with algebra especially later on in life. I'll be 72 soon and I'm still waiting. Frank

[Mr_Sheesh]

HollowPoint, no, no K31 here, sorry.

samari46 there are lots of options, the usual 2 suspects are PLA and ABS; But there is that Carbon Fiber, Nylon, PVA (to make supports to hold something up, then you wash the PVA away later with hot water), I think I've seen PET filament too, Polycarbonate, and there are probably 20 other materials. And if you order from ShapeWays or the like, you can get your object in sintered steel, silver, I forget all the metals they offer but it's a good number of them!

[HollowPoint]

Have to ask this question regarding the different plastics available for 3d printers. Are there many types to choose from or are you limited by what is available from the company that makes the printers?. As you can see I know absolutely squat about 3d printers and the plastics that they use. Are there plastics for high stress applications and other uses. This from a guy still trying to figure out how to set up a $10 buck chinese alarm clock. electronics and math foreign words in my vocabulary. I consider myself electronically challenged and mathamatically challenged as well. Didn't do great in math in high school barely passed. Loved the teacher who used to say that one would do well with algebra especially later on in life. I'll be 72 soon and I'm still waiting. Frank

samari46: As Mr Sheesh has already stated, there are lots of different types of filaments now but the basic ones are PLA and ABS. I got a roll of each included in the package that came with my printer.

I'm afraid that when I make my posts here about the 3D prints I've made or attempted to make I may come off sounding like I know alot about 3D printing. It would be closer to the truth to say that I know nothing. I've only owned my printer for about a month and a half and I'm just now getting to where I can get some decent prints out of it. Figuring out how my printer works was the first step. The harder part for me was figuring out just the right combination of Slicer settings to use to get decent prints. The Slicer software is what determines the quality of your prints.

I'm using the cheapest filament I can buy. I'm not using the filament that came with my printer because the roll of ABS is white and the PLA roll is blue so, I bought some black and gray off of Ebay for cheap. I just had to experiment until I got the right combination of heat at the extruder end, the heated bed, the extrusion rate and a few other settings. It sounds mind boggling but if you compare it to reloading your own ammo, there's a similar process you go through to work up the most accurate load for your rifle. In this case it would be working up the right print recipe for your printer.

HollowPoint

[Buckeye Marksman]

Some folks claim they can anneal 3D printed parts. You might need some way to brace your parts to keep the heat from deforming them. Read the comments in the following videos for additional tips...

Tutorial: Annealing MakerGeeks Raptor PLA - The Boil Method - 3D Printing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmTGU3r53VU)

Annealing PLA in Place (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoNQGlyFWy8)

What's the temperature resistance of annealed PLA, PETG and ABS? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLrISrkg46g)

[HollowPoint]

That's interesting. I didn't know such a thing was possible but, for the applications I've been using ABS filament for it's difficult to imaging how it would be useful in my case. Since this "Annealing" process tends to alter the original dimensions it might work for me if I printed everything just a bit bigger all around to its' general shape and then machined it down to the specified dimensions but, my reason for buying the 3D printer was to minimize the use of my milling machine and hopefully use whatever I printed directly out of the printer with a minimum of post-printing work to get it to the finished state.

It's good to learn about this though since I never know when such an annealing might come in handy on some future project. Thanks.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I finally got the Carbon-Fiber 3D Print filament I ordered off of Ebay about a month ago. Now I have to figure out the correct temperature settings to get it to print the way I want it to. These filaments generally come with recommended temperature ranges but again, it's like working up loads for a specific gun. The recommended temperature settings were based on the 3D Printers that the makers of this filament used when they were testing for optimum prints with this specific filament.

It will be a few days till I get a little more free time to play around with this new filament. It's just a small sample roll so I can't afford to do alot of testing to come up with a good recipe otherwise I'll run out of filament. In the mean time my dedicated K31 Peep Sight is moving right along. I got the base and the upper arm modeled ok but I still need to work on the Windage and Elevation Knobs, the diopter peep thingy and the side plate that holds the upper arm in place. I'm hoping to print it all out of Carbon Fiber as well.

I've mentioned these projects in other forums I'm a member of and it never fails. There are always those who seem to feel it's their calling in life to point out all the reasons why my projects will fail. I got this with my extended magazine project and now I've gotten the same negative responses with my K31 Peep Sights project. I've mentioned this before in other project posts. "I wonder how many useful and even ground breaking inventions have been stifled into oblivion by all of the well-meaning and not-so-well meaning self-appointed internet experts that inventors and DIY'ers have had to deal with in life?

I'll post some pics of the finished Carbon Fiber project once I've gotten them printed up. If all works out as I'm hoping it will I'm thinking about threading the little peep-tower with the same thread pitch that's used by some of the European magnified diopter makers. I spotted one of these on Ebay that wasn't to expensive and I'd kind of like to try one out. My eye sight isn't getting any better so I either need a scope or a good set of Peep-Sights in order to be able to shoot anywhere near accurate.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

Looking forwards to hear your results :) I fall more on the "enabler" side, sorry LOL

[HollowPoint]

Looking forwards to hear your results :) I fall more on the "enabler" side, sorry LOL

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was accusing anyone here of being a "Self-Appointed-Know-It-All." Generally speaking the castboolits forum is one of the most idea-friendly internet sites I've ever come across. I think this is in large part because this site is based alot on self-sufficiency.

Those from other forums who seem to be basing their opinions or arguments for the failure of my projects are basing their comments on principles and conclusions established and kept inside the proverbial box of accepted norms or knowledge. This can make it difficult to defend your inventions or ideas in the face of such opposition so, I just let them state their cases and keep doing what I'm doing. In the case of my 3D printed extended magazine, I still have one guy insisting that it will not work; even after I posted my short video proving that it does work.

Any time your ideas are derived from experiments and tests that fall outside that proverbial box, you open yourself up to ridicule from the "Self-Appointed Internet Experts." I guess that's normal.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

I just am plain and simple a curious beastie, I like new stuff and seeing what new things can be come up with; I have 2 3d printers but some problems here are keeping me from getting them working. I'll get them going some day, soon as I can.

[HollowPoint]

Another seven hour print, this time in Carbon Fiber and the finished results was a very good surface finish but from feel alone it would seem that the Carbon Fiber Magazine body is actually not any more inflexible than the ABS magazine body.

I did go ahead and make some slight geometry changes to the feed-lips of the magazine. Because of the outward flex on the wall of the mag-body I added a little more material to the inside edge of the magazine lips to counter the outward flex. My 3D printed Carbon Fiber Extended magazine will now hold 12 rounds without those rounds wanting to escape the magazine under the pressure of the mag-spring.

For range testing I'll have to take both the Carbon-Fiber prototype and the ABS Mag Body with me just in case one fails the recoil test. I'll be able to switch from one to the other in that case. I'm confident that both will work just as I'd hoped.

I still haven't taken any photos of the finished Carbon Fiber magazine. I'm wanting to wait till I get my K31 Peep Sights finished so I can kill two birds with one picture taking session. The one down side to working with Carbon Fiber that I've found with my particular printer (Flashforge Creator Pro) is that the resolution is not quite good enough to print out very small parts cleanly. The Windage and Elevation Knobs and the Peep Tower as well as the Diopter will print out but in each case I have to go in and smooth out the surfaces of these smaller components. That's not the case with slightly larger components. If I do my part in the drawing up of the models and finding the right print recipe, my larger printed parts are now coming out pretty good.

I'll be back when I get those pics taken.

HollowPoint

[Rcmaveric]

Good work. Take it to the range and lets hear what happens

[jmort]

Great thread
Very interesting

[HollowPoint]

In the mean time here are some of my CAD Renderings of the K31 Swiss Reciever Mounted Peep Sight I've been working on for my K31 rifle. I've actually already printed out a prototype set of this Peep Sight design and everything appears to be fitting together quite well but, like the Carbon Fiber Magazine Body, I still have to get to the range to test them to see how well they're going to hold up against the recoil of full power loads.

The actual printed prototype parts are all a dull black color. I've enhanced the color of these computer renderings in order to be able to make out some of the detail that tends to get hidden whenever I post all black colored projects. I hope to have the photos of my Carbon-Fiber Magazine ready for posting tomorrow. I just didn't have enough free time today.

I had one more image to upload but it seems that I've run out of allotted photo space again. I'll have to go it and delete some of my previous images in order to make room for those other photos I want to upload.

HollowPoint

[Rcmaveric]

In the mean time here are some of my CAD Renderings of the K31 Swiss Reciever Mounted Peep Sight I've been working on for my K31 rifle. I've actually already printed out a prototype set of this Peep Sight design and everything appears to be fitting together quite well but, like the Carbon Fiber Magazine Body, I still have to get to the range to test them to see how well they're going to hold up against the recoil of full power loads.

The actual printed prototype parts are all a dull black color. I've enhanced the color of these computer renderings in order to be able to make out some of the detail that tends to get hidden whenever I post all black colored projects. I hope to have the photos of my Carbon-Fiber Magazine ready for posting tomorrow. I just didn't have enough free time today.

I had one more image to upload but it seems that I've run out of allotted photo space again. I'll have to go it and delete some of my previous images in order to make room for those other photos I want to upload.

HollowPoint

i need to get me a printer. I could use a few set a peeps and there are a lot of tools i need to make.

[HollowPoint]

I think I've owned this printer a little over a couple of months now so my CNC hobby mill has sat idle for that long. I used to do my prototyping with my Tormach 770 mill but now, even though these prints take a long time to get done, it's still a bit more convenient to make up my prototypes via 3D printing and if I see they are worth setting up my CNC Mill to make them out of metal I can go ahead and do that.

With my metal working machines, I'd have to plan weeks, days or months in advance so I could dedicate that time specifically to tending my machines as they ran. With this 3D printer, I can start my prints when I get out of bed, go to work at my income producing job and let the printer run all day by itself if need be. Since I work out of my home I can check in on those print jobs a couple of times a day just to make sure the prints haven't gone south on me.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

OOps; I posted a duplicate reply. Scratch this one.

[longbow]

I have very limited experience with 3D printing but so far I am not impressed.

There are 3D printers of varying quality and resolution so that is a factor in the final product. The one I was using is owned by a research/development outfit trying to stimulate local business using government grants and investment from industry. I would have figured the 3D printer was of quite high quality but it turns out the final result was rather poor with regards to surface finish and resolution (overall dimensional accuracy). Also, the layers of plastic did not bond well so any significant loading on parts resulted in separation of layers.

The items printed are pretty beefy parts for a a barrel cam type mechanism to rotate a valve plug for molten metal pouring. Lots of material in all parts so no thin sections. From the discussion with the manager of the outfit I'd have figured the parts would be solid like they were cast. Nope! There were several separations at assembly that had to be glued back together. In the end the prototype worked but it certainly wasn't very "solid".

The filament used was ABS.

The 3D printer used was quite large and sophisticated but the result was less than impressive.

I don't know enough about the printers with regards to best material or settings or quality differences between printers but the manager did the printing for me so this poor result is not due to inexperience, it will be due to: quality of the 3D printer, material selection, and/or settings along with the others.

An inexpensive 3D printer and cheap filament will be fine for proving concepts but you will need a "solid" end product that can take some abuse for gun parts and this particular printer did not produce something that would take any abuse.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

With my first attempts at printing with my particular printer I had similar results as you've described. I had to do alot of experimenting with the print settings to get where I'm at now. I found that the suggested settings offered by the manufacturer of my 3D printer or the manufacturer of the filament I used was basically useless. It did offer a starting point but, again, I use the reloading ammo analogy. The recommended bullet, powder, primer or charge weights one gets as a "Pet-Load" most likely worked great in the gun that a given "Pet-Load" was worked up for but it's not likely it will work the same in anyone else's gun. The same holds true of the suggested print recipes offered by these printer or filament manufactures.

Initially I could snap my parts in half if I used enough hand pressure to do so. I too had separation of layers at first but I had to make a concerted effort to get them to break apart. Given enough force, I think I could even get my latest printed parts to break apart. The thing I'm trying to achieve is printing parts that hold together for the long run when subjected to typical forces they will be subject to serving as the part they are serving. With my Peep Sights and my Magazine prints I haven't deliberately tried to break them.

I'm happy just to get them to a useable state right out of the printer.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

Okay, you've been there already.

3D printing has some amazing capabilities to to produce parts difficult or impossible to produce other ways but like any other method of manufacture the process has to be sorted out to get the required end product quality.

We went with 3D printing to get the prototype model made up for demonstration purposes because it was much cheaper than getting the parts CNC machined. Of course the plastic valve turner cannot be used with molten metal, it was simply to demonstrate function which it did.

One of the posters on the Casting For Shotguns forum is 3D printing skirts for slugs and has had some good results. Skirts are in compression but still have to be pretty sound. Not sure of his material and printer but it is working for him.

It is interesting stuff and I am sure that printers will speed up and final product get better until it is equivalent (or better?) than injection moulded.

I'll be watching to see how all this goes. Good luck and keep forging ahead!

Longbow

[RKJ]

I think it's pretty impressive the things you are doing. Your write up and pics helped me to follow along and see what it is you're doing. I don't have the patience to do 1/2 of what you are doing. I'm going to follow the thread as I find it very interesting.

[HollowPoint]

Thanks for the encouragement you guys. I'm afraid when I post stuff like these projects it tends to highlight only the successful parts of the project stages. With the extended magazine project I've printed four different iterations already. The last ABS Mag-Body has been the best so far. The Carbon Fiber was just an after-thought, as I suspected that the qualities of the carbon fiber filament might be a little more robust and hold up better with less flex.

That did turn out to be the case but there is also the issue of Carbon Fiber being more brittle as well; at least for this application where the walls of my Mag-Bodies are pretty thin. I was really happy to see that when I loaded that Carbon Fiber magazine with a full compliment of loaded rounds it was able to hold them all inside the mag but that happiness was short lived this morning when the Feed-Lip on the left side of the magazine just snapped clean off under the pressure.

Since the left side had snapped off I thought I might as well try to snap the right side Feed-Lip off as well just to see how much pressure was needed to break it. I tried to get it to break off too but it wouldn't break. I'm sure I could have succeeded if I'd applied more pressure but the point was to see if just the amount of pressure that the fully loaded spring imparted would break the right side as well.

Bottom line is; it looks like I'll be using ABS for this application instead of Carbon Fiber filament. Additionally, in my print settings I'll have to set the part to be printed so that the "Grain" of the print runs in opposition to the forces of the spring. In a similar way that the grain in a thin wooden plank is easily snapped in half if pressure is applied in conjunction with the grain as opposed to applying that pressure at a right angle to the grain, the way the molten filament is laid down leaves my printed parts with the same strengths and weaknesses. This is another rookie mistake learned the hard way. It's the kind of stuff that's mostly not seen when I post these projects cause there's just not enough time for me to list every little detail. On top of that is the dissolution that listing any or all hardships that the learning curve tends to instill for those who may be interested in trying these things out for themselves.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

I know a little about 3d printing, been around some people who know it well. When you say it's the settings, that's where you are SPOT ON. With the wrong settings, you can get horrid results that aren't correct dimensionally, that won't hold together, etc. etc.; With the settings right, you can get far faster speed of printing and far better results, even finer grain in the finished part (though THAT comes at cost of speed - The finer your layers, the slower the print.)

If you're going to do production I'd look for a local model train club that has an injection molding shop that works with them (they tend to need lots of small production runs for train setups.)

And acetone "vapor treatment" can be great for making better print final results, especially in ABS (PLA can be treated as well, but the vapors needed are NASTY stuff, toxic as heck etc.)

[HollowPoint]

I did all the slight modifications in the geometry of my Magazine CAD models last night and then I set it up in my Slicer software again. This time I laid it sideways instead of standing straight up and down standing on its' base as before.

This orientation will mean that when the molten filament is being laid down layer on top of layer, the "Grain" of the ABS will be vertically as opposed to horizontally the way my previous prints were done.

This does come at a cost though. With my previous prints it required some support structures to be printed in order to support the Feed-Lips as the printing process reached the very top of the print where the Feed-Lips were located. This was just two columns of supports. Now, since I'm printing this same mag-body in a sideways orientation it will require a whole lot more support structures. I should have saved a screen-shot of the supports so that I make a little more sense for those who aren't familiar with this process.

These support structures literally fill the inside of the magazine in order to support the roof of the print in its' sideways orientation. Not only does this mean a much longer print time but it also means that I will most likely loose the excellent surface finish I was getting before when I was printing the Mag-Body standing on its' base. This is because each one of these little supports leaves a tell-tale mark on the surface that its' supporting. They can be sanded smooth, which I'll have to do to get the follower to slide up and down smoothly but, the slightly good thing about it is that most of these imperfections won't be visible cause they are on the inside surfaces of the print.

On the outside surfaces of the print there will be supports holding up the curved surfaces at the corners of the print and at the very thin section at the back of the Mag-Body where it transitions from the thicker lower half of the magazine to the thinner upper half. I added just a hair more material to thicken the lips a bit. This in conjunction with the change in the "Grain" of the ABS as it's being laid down should give me the maximum strength I'm looking for.


The real down side to this is the fact that before, in its' original orientation, this was a seven hour print. Now, in its' sideways print orientation it's become a ten-plus hour print. Wish me luck.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

"Supports" are akin to temporary beams used to hold a beam up in place as you build the rest of a building, they let the molten plastic set before it sags etc.

On some dual head printers (where you can print with more than one type of filament) they use PVA (Polyvinyl Alcohol) as a support, then once the print is done, warm to hot water will dissolve the PVA and your supports are gone with no marks. More complex than printing everything in one filament though.

[HollowPoint]

Ten hours and seventeen minutes later and I have what now appears to be the 3D printed Magazine I was after.

I actually attempted to print this latest iteration two days ago but it just would not print correctly by sitting it directly on the print bed. One of the corners of the print would want to curl upward no matter what temperature I set to print bed to. This would cause the print nozzle to catch that curled up corner and dislodge the entire first few layers which ruined the print before it even got started. I had to print it using something called a "Raft." A "Raft" is a thick initial few layers of print medium onto which the actual print sits in order to more securely adhere the actual print to the print bed. On my 3D printer those first few "Raft" layers are printed with the print bed temperature set at higher than normal temperatures to ensure that the edges or corners don't curl up.

It looks as though this re-orientation of the print was just the ticket for getting the rigidity needed to keep the cartridges from escaping past the Feed-Lips of the magazine under pressure of the mag-spring. The down side was the extended print time as well as the loss of surface finish like I got with the Carbon Fiber printed magazine body. I think I'm going to try to print out one last sample out of Carbon-Fiber and this time use the sideways orientation of printing. This may keep the Feed-Lips of my print from breaking off and hopefully give me a nice surface finish to boot.

I didn't get the black-satin finish with this latest ABS print that I did with the Carbon-Fiber print but, no matter. Functionality and reliability was first on my list of things to strive for. Even with a pristine surface finish, these plastic magazines get marred the instant you slide them into the Mag-Well so the surface finish was of secondary importance. You'll note in the pics below all the scrape and scuff marks on my samples. Most of these marks were caused by me filing, sanding and scraping these magazines in order to get them to fit snuggly into the Mag-Well; after which I'd go into my CAD models and tweak here and there to get them to print out without next time having to do any more filing and sanding.

Somehow these tweaks haven't had the full effect I was hoping for cause with each new print I've still had to file and sand the same areas that I thought I'd fixed with my CAD model tweaks.

That ten hour wait was a killer. I knew that at the end of the time I would either rejoice with a fully functional 3D printed magazine or I'd get to practice my foul-language skills in earnest. It's really looking like the re-orientation of my 3D Extended Magazine prints on the print-bed was the key for getting some more rigidity in the area of the Feed-Lips. This latest ABS print is holding a full load of cartridges inside the magazine with no problem thus far. It may be that in a hot gun that ABS plastic will again want to give way but if this is that case that magazine will be supported by the wall of the Mag-Well so there shouldn't be a problem with reliability. It's when the magazine is loaded and sitting on its' own outside the Mag-Well that the cartridges need to stay put.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I just finished up the last 3D printed addon to my K31 rifle. I figured since I'd made a functioning extended magazine and a set of peep sights I should also try making myself some Stripper-Clips as well. I have two factory Stripper-Clips in my storage closet but they're getting on in years and each time I've used them they seem to feel more and more fragile.

At 100 percent infill each one of my 3D printed Stripper-Clips takes four-hours and a few more minutes on top of that but, I needed to see if I could get them to work. Right now I only have one printed up. If I find that they're reliable and will hold up for me I'll print a couple more.

After cleaning them up and de-burring the edges of the prints they appear to be working just as I'd hoped. Only time will tell how they'll hold up over the long run. The good thing about this is, if they crack or break I can just print up a couple more. I don't have the time to shoot my K31 as often as I used to so I don't really foresee them wearing out. If anything, the four little in-turned tension leaflets that keep the cartridges from just falling out of the bottom of the Stripper-Clips might be prone to breaking but I made it a point of printing them out so that the grain of the ABS plastic runs counter to the forces that might tend to break those little inward facing leaflets; similar to the way I printed the last two extended magazines I recently finished.

Now I can call my K31 3D Printed projects done.

HollowPoint

[Fishman]

What a fascinating thread. Thanks!

[HollowPoint]

I started drawing up the CAD model for my Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk1 Extended magazine last night. I had never really taken a close look at that particular magazine before last night. It really is a little different from your standard rifle magazine, especially in the Feed-Lip area. It's certainly different from the K31 Magazine I just finished up.

In one of the previous replies I got on this thread someone mentioned he had problems with an Enfield magazine he had bought as a replacement or as an extra mag. I don't recall exactly but, he had to fiddle around with the Feed-Lips to get it to feed properly. With the K31 Magazine I modeled up I just sort of eye-balled the shapes and the curves of the Feed-Lips. I guess I got lucky cause other than the weakened material in the area of the Feed-Lips I didn't have to much trouble with feeding and ejecting my rounds.

I can see where this Enfield magazine might give me problems. Oh well; I still think it's doable. I'm going to give it a shot anyway. Since it will be an extended magazine I'm thinking it will have to have a bit of curvature to it to accommodate the rimmed cases; sort of like an AK magazine but, no where near as long. Since it's a double stack magazine I'm hoping to get 12-15 rounds into it but I'll just have to wait and see. It can't be to long because there is only so much room on my 3D printer's build platform. On top of that is the fact that I'll have to print it in an orientation that increases the strength of the Feed-Lip area otherwise I run the risk of cracking or breaking off the those thin Feed-Lips like I did on that Carbon-Fiber magazine I printed. That turned out to be 7-plus hours worth of failure. If it weren't for the learning experience it would have been a total failure. I'll be back when I have some CAD Renderings I can show you all.

In addition to that will be the problem of finding a long enough length of music wire that I can use to make my Mag-Spring with. With the K31 magazine I was able to use a three foot length of music wire just as it's sold at the hardware. That turned out to be the exact length I needed to make a single mag-spring. It was the perfect length. On this extended Enfield magazine I don't know if I'll be so lucky. I may be able to get a 36" piece of music wire to work if I just space the coils further apart. I'll just have to wait and see. I'm starting to get ahead of myself now.


HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I'm on my fourth attempt at drawing my CAD model of my Lee Enfield extended magazine. Holy Cow! samuri46 was right. Now that I've taken a closer look at my own Enfield magazine and put my calipers to it to measure, these magazines are really more complicated than I realized before.

The left side wall is higher than the right side wall. The right side wall has a small notch cut into the rear-most feed-lip. The front most feed-lip on the right side is wider than the front-most feed-lip on the left side and the smaller feed-lip on the right side is not up as high as the one on the left.

The original plan was to give this magazine a bit of curvature like you seen on the banana-style magazines for those guns shooting rimmed cartridges but I was having so much trouble getting my CAD models to cooperate that I've resigned myself to making my extended magazine a straight up and down configuration with the follower having the slant needed to properly stack and feed the cartridges in the magazine.

I still believe it's doable. There are so many guns on the market today that come with plastic or "Polymer" magazines that it's difficult to think otherwise; it's drawing up the exact models needed to be able to 3D print them that's the hard part. (at least for me anyway)

I had planned on offering the STL files for any other 3D print guy to try printing one out for themselves but if what samuri46 stated is correct across the board, it may be that if I can get this model to print out and work in my Lee Enfield No.4 Mk1, it won't necessarily mean that it will work on someone else's Lee Enfield rifle. Those feed-lips may have to be tweaked for each individual rifle.

By this weekend I'm hoping to have a CAD model close enough to complete to be able to post a pic of a computer rendering so you know what I'm rambling about. I'll be back.


HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

HollowPoint, I wonder, would it be possible to make the feed lips a separate part? That would save some filament and time, potentially, as you or others seek for the proper configuration for those. Have the lips clip on at first - or use something like Elmer's Glue? (I've used it for plexiglass stuff, it looks like a regular glue but if you shear it by rapping the glued on piece along its' length, the Elmers will fall off one or the other parts enough to remove that part.) Or perhaps a small screw. Or metal retaining clip around the bottom of the magazine maybe? If you can get to where you only have to do a 1 hour print for the lips instead of a 4 hour print for the whole magazine, that's some savings. (Yep I know it's somewhat faster than that but I can't remember the times and "too lazy" to read back LOL)

[HollowPoint]

I thought about doing that very thing but instead of printing the feed-lip section separately I was thinking more along the lines of printing the main body separately and fabrication the top-most part where the feed-lips are out of sheet metal of some sort.

I've seen some magazines made in this way where the feed-lips are made of metal and from there down is all plastic or polymer material. In my minds-eye I visualized the metal part having some slots cut into it that corresponded with some 3D printed embossing on the outside surface of the mag body to hold it in place and still be able to fit up into the mag-well.

I just have a few more tweaks before I print the first all plastic prototype. I think I'll stick with it for now and if I can't get it to work I'll think about trying the metal feed-lips with a plastic bodied magazine. The first prototype hasn't ever seemed to work out for me without having to go back and tweak my CAD models to get them to fit better. I'm thinking this time around will be no different. It's really the feed-lip area of these magazine projects that causes the trial and error steps in the completion of my projects so far.

I wish I owned a 3D scanner with enough resolution to just scan the existing magazine. That way I could just scan the shape of the entire magazine and then use just the feed-lip section while reconfiguring an extended lower portion of that magazine. If I ever win the lottery, a good high resolution 3D scanner will be one of the things on my "To-Buy-List; " that, and maybe a better 3D printer. Until then I'll just have to keep using the trial and error method of getting my projects to succeed.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

That'd do it and be tough to break as a bonus :)

3d scanners aren't quite as cheap / useful yet as 3d printers last I checked, but the tech changes so fast :)

On some things I prototype them in Cardboard first, for mags that's unlikely to work though! Great for a PDA stand or watch stand etc. though.

[HollowPoint]

It's still a work in progress but I wanted to show you all what stage I'm at with this Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1 3D printed Extended magazine. I've actually already printed out two initial prototypes. Both fit nicely and locked securely into the mag-well. The problem I've encountered has to do with the rimmed cases.

Have you ever wondered why the Lee Enfield magazines only hold ten rounds? Well, I'm finding out the hard way that if you put any more than ten rounds into one of these straight up and down walled magazines, each new loaded cartridge moves farther and farther forward because each cartridge is loaded with the rim sitting just ahead of the previous cartridge rim. This means that what I'm having to do now is figure out the precise curvature to add to the lower two-thirds of my extended magazine design.

I started out with this in mind but I wasn't able to get my CAD models to cooperate with me so I thought I'd try it with just a straight up and down magazine body. I can get my 3D printed magazine to work but only with no more than ten rounds loaded at one time. Over ten rounds and the feed and reliability goes down the tubes immediately. Such is the life of a 3D print newbie.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I finally got a chance to get to the shooting range to test that set of Peep Sight and the 15 round Extended Magazine I 3D printed a few weeks ago. I'm happy to report that both the Peep Sights and the Magazine worked like a champ. I did discover small areas where I could improve on the Peep Sight but that's just a simple tweak to my CAD Model.

One of those "Small Areas for Improvement" has to do with the little spring and detent bearing I was using to give the sight some click adjustments. I utilized the detent ball bearing so that the sight would hold its zero even under heavy recoil. It turns out that my zero never moved even though I didn't have the little spring or ball bearing installed. I think I'll just remove those two little details from my CAD Models so that it's two less components to deal with. It's just as well cause those tiny springs had to be hand made and the ball bearing was so small that I couldn't find any that small online or in the hardware store. What I used instead was the steel heads off of an 1/8" rivet. Although they weren't perfectly round, they were just the right diameter to fit the little holes where the little springs sat. It was tricky getting them in there but they went in OK and they actually clicked like they were supposed to but now that I know they aren't completely necessary, they'll be done away with.

The other area for improvement was my windage knob. As it sits on the receiver now, that windage adjustment knob clears the bolt knob by about a quarter inch. I can still cycle the action without a problem when I'm firing standard pressure rounds but if I happen to shoot a higher pressure round and the bolt got kind of sticky it might become difficult to get enough finger and palm leverage to pull back that sticky bold knob. By adjusting my CAD model so that the bolt knob itself is moved in by another 1/8" that would give me just enough clearance to wrap my index finger and my birdie finger around that bolt knob to draw it back with full force.

The 15 round magazine held all 15 rounds with no problem. I did notice that unlike a few days ago when I loaded that same magazine prototype with the full compliment of 15 rounds, all of those cartridges stayed put inside the magazine. Out on the shooting range however, after about the 13th round was loaded it tended to incite the remaining rounds to want to escape capture. It was holding all 15 rounds perfectly when I tested it at home. It wasn't cooperating at the range.

With the empty magazine inserted up into the mag well I could easily load all 15 rounds by hand or by stripper clip and they obediently stayed put until they were cycled into action so, I still call it a success. It's just that I couldn't get them to cooperate with me at the shooting range. I think unless I were to make this same magazine out of a more rigid steel it would work just fine. As it is, the ABS plastic it's made of has just a bit to much flex without the support of the mag-well walls to hold it in. It may have been the heat of the Arizona desert that betrayed me and the cooler airconditioned air in my home that made me look like I knew what I was doing before.

Something else about the extended magazine that I'm happy to report about. That is with the little side latch that holds the magazine in place within the mag-well. I was afraid that the little spring I made for that latch may have been to weak and possibly cause the magazine to drop out by itself under recoil. The loaded magazine stayed put so my concerns weren't completely unfounded but they were relieved by the non-failure of that side latch.

I did take my video camera with me and I will be posting the video proof of what I've just written. I just have to edit it all down to a one minute length of video so I can upload it to my Instagram account and my YouTube channel.

I'll be back.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Here's the hastily and poorly made proof of concept video I put together for my Instagram account. Instagram only allows for a general usage video of about one minute long. That's way to short to show all of the particulars of my range time while testing these 3D printed components. This short video only proves to those who have been following my progress that these 3D printed components are a viable concept worthy of your consideration; and yet for others, I will never be able to produce enough proof to prove that perhaps their disbelief was unfounded.

Within the next few weeks I'll be reverting my K31 to it's native chambering. As some of you may recall, I got a wild hair up my butt a while back and I re-barreled and rechambered it in 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. I grew to like that chambering so much that I bought a Tikka Hunter model rifle chambered in the 6.5 Swedish cartridge and I've now gotten that rifle to a tack-driving status so I figured there's no sense in having two rifles in the same chambering.

Anyway, here's that short clip.

HollowPoint


https://youtu.be/ooED6pbBojA

[HollowPoint]

Here's a addendum or correction to what I've been referring to as my, 3D printed extended 15 round magazine. Since I started working on my most recent extended magazine for my Lee Enfield rifle, on the Enfield rifle I have indeed been working toward a 15 round extended magazine but on the K31, it was only a 12 round extended magazine. This is twice the capacity of the factory K31 magazine.

I'm afraid that I've been suffering from"15-Rounds-In-The-Brain" lately because of the two different project being done so close together. The K31 magazine I tested in this video holds only 12 rounds; not the 15 rounds I stated that it did. Sorry about that mix up. I was a bit over zealous and bit to much in a hurry in the making of that video.

The upcoming Lee Enfield mag will be made to hold 15 rounds. At least that's what I'm shooting for. Whether I can get it work for me is still yet to be seen but, I'm relatively confident that I can; even though the Enfield mag will be on the back burner till I finish the CAD model teaks I mentioned I'd be doing on my K31 Peep sight now that I've identified areas where improvements could be made, I want to take care of those tweaks and move from there.

This means that I won't be working as fervently on my Enfield mag project for a week or so.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

This past Wednesday I printed what I though would be the last prototype Lee Enfield magazine before actually printing the final working version. It turns out that I didn't put enough of a curvature on my 3D printed magazine so I got the same effect as I was getting with my straight up and down printed prototypes. You can imagine my frustration when you realize that it took just under 14 hours to print this prototype. I got up at three-o-Clock in the morning and started the print and then went back to bed.

The print was done around dinner time that same day. All the while during that print session I was hoping that nothing went wrong midway through the print, like a power outage or something like that. The print itself looked really good. I think I'm starting to get the hang of coming up with good print recipes, it's just that no matter how good the prints turn out, if they don't function as they're supposed to it's all for naught.

I did some research into some obscure and obsolete Lee Enfield high capacity magazines dubbed, "Trench-Magazines." I'd never heard of them before I did that desperation google search for Lee Enfield high capacity magazines. I was able to bring up a few pics that gave me a better idea of just how much curvature my 3D printed magazine body would need in order to get the double stacked columns of 303 British rimmed cartridges to stack neatly against the rear-most wall of my magazine.

I've also been studying every little ridge and curve on the rest of my factory Lee Enfield factory magazine and at first glance it all looks like it's just there to add rigidity to the side wall or to aid in some unknown way. To some extent this is true but, if you'll notice on your own factory mags, the vertical ridges at the front of the magazine don't go from the very top to bottom. They stop at a very specific level below the top edge of the magazine on either side. This is so that the shoulder of the cartridge as it hits the top of that ridge will bump the cartridge inward and out from under the front feed lips and up to align it to the chamber. The vertical ridges at the rear of the magazine don't go as high as those in the front of the magazine. This is so that the rims of the cartridges won't snag those ridges when they're being cycled into battery and tip the nose of the cartridge out of alignment with the barrel chamber.

For the life of me I still haven't figured out what that little cut out on the right rear feed lip is all about. It seems to serve no purpose that I can think of but, if all of those other details in the design of the factory Lee Enfield magazine are put there for a specific reason, that little cut out must serve some purpose. If any of you guys knows what that purpose is, please let me know cause I have no clue. Maybe it's there to facilitated manufacture or something. Who Knows?

I'll take a pic of all of the Enfield mags I've printed thus far and post them for you within the next couple of days. If I quit this project now those failed attempts could rightly be considered failures but if I keep going they become rungs in the ladder of success. So far all my print attempts have functioned but only with a limited number of cartridges loaded in each one of them. I already have a factory ten round magazine. I'm wanting to make one that will hold 15 rounds. I could even live with a 12 or 13 rounder if I had to just to prove the concept.

With these Lee Enfield project magazine I'm finding out also that the same forces that caused the cartridges of my fully loaded K31 12-round magazine to want to cough up those cartridges is making the loaded rounds in the Enfield prototype magazine want to do the same thing. The plastic/ABS walls of my 3D printed magazines don't have quite enough rigidity to keep those loaded rounds from wanting to expand the magazine's wall outward but, that problem disappears if the magazine is locked into the mag-well. This way the wall of my 3D printed magazines are held in their original dimensions because the walls of the mag-well will not let them expand any further outward; which in turn keeps the rounds from escaping out the top of the magazine past the feed lips.

I'll be back with more pics latter.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

3D printed Lee Enfield No.4 Mk1 Extended 15 Round Magazine Project.

So far I've attempted to print three separate iterations of this extended magazine design. The first two actually functioned but, unreliably and only when I loaded no more than ten rounds into them. This is because of the rimmed cases of the 303 British cartridge.

My third and most recent attempt also worked but only with ten rounds or less loaded. This time it was the lack of sufficient curvature to the lower two-thirds of the magazine that was causing problems. I underestimated the amount of curvature I'd need and ended up with a 14 hour print that didn't work as I'd hoped it would.
This third print attempt fit nicely and look pretty good but, all of that means nothing if I can't get it to hold the full 15 rounds I set out for and if it's not functioning reliably those 14 hours of print time were basically a waste, unless you count them as a learning experience.

That's a round about way of saying that this is a work in progress and I'll most likely have to go back in a few more times and adjust the curvature of the lower two-thirds of my magazine design in order to get it to work properly and be aesthetically appealing as a finished project.

I also wanted to show you all just how time consuming, frustrating, perplexing and ultimately exhilarating it can be once success is achieved. I thought I'd upload a pic of the many failures of my recent K31 12 round extended magazine and Peep-Sights projects.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

It took just under 15 hours to print this latest iteration of my Lee Enfield Extended 15 round magazine. I had high hopes cause I was able to arrive at some tentative measurements or dimensions based on an internet pic of an old SMLE with a "Trench Magazine" inserted in its' mag-well.

Based on this photograph, I guessed at the curve and the length I needed and went with that. Following is the internet link with the photo image I'm referring to:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=VpJQ6qj7&id=7D6D7BA6CF2ECC1B078F22B6022405635CA76849&thid=OIP.VpJQ6qj7_KJC84aDYjDnCAHaDe&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.germandaggers.com%2fGall ery%2fGP_files%2fRieder.jpg&exph=750&expw=1600&q=lee+enfield+20+round+trench+magazine&simid=608008569569345812&selectedIndex=59&ajaxhist=0

My 3D printed magazine body finished printing at about 8:45 last night. I left it sitting in the printer till today. After cleaning up the ABS plastic swarf I went about printing a new base plate and Spring-Plate; after which I assembled it to see if it was all going to fit together for me like the previous one did. I was using the same Mag-Spring I was using for the last prototype I made so I wasn't sure if it would work or not regardless whether I had gotten the curvature of the lower two-thirds of my mag-body right or not.

It all went together real nice and the follower with the spring pushing up on it felt just as soggy and springy as the factory 10 round magazine so I tried loading up the first ten rounds. I did get some resistance from the inner side walls of my mag-body against the sides of the follower so I took it back apart and did some judicious filing here and there and tried again.

The first ten rounds went in without to much trouble and they all stayed put inside the magazine; then I tried inserting the remaining five rounds to make it a full 15 rounds loaded. I got two more rounds in but it required some foul language and a bit more thumb pressure. I continued to feel more raspy feeling resistance so I took it apart again and smoothed out the inner walls of the lower portion of the mag-body. I also did a little more smoothing on the sides of the follower.

This time I was able to get thirteen rounds into the mag before I started to feel more resistance. I took it apart one last time and this time I did some smoothing on the rear-most inner wall of the magazine. You have to understand that the surface finish, because of the way the molten ABS plastic is laid down, creates a fine horizontally abrasive surface. With this abrasive finish running horizontally and my follower moving up and down, even the slightest burr or imperfection creates resistance when the follower reaches the level of those imperfections.

The thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth rounds were a bear to get in but they went in; and all the cartridges stayed put within the magazine. If you'll remember with my K31 Extended 12 round magazine project all the rounds stayed in place as long the ambient temperature wasn't hot enough for the ABS plastic mag-wall to soften up and expand outward when the magazine was outside the gun's magazine well. Once the heat of the day applied it's heat to the plastic magazine, those loaded bullets made a break for it. I was afraid that I'd be dealing with the same situation with my Lee Enfield magazine but for the time being, in the cool climate inside my home all 15 rounds stayed put inside the magazine. That may change when I get to the range to range test this latest Lee Enfield magazine.

It's nice to be able to load all 15 rounds with the magazine outside the mag-well. My Enfield wears a scope so loading them one at a time underneath that scope could be a major pain. Another thing is the type of bullets I now have loaded in the cartridges. My test were being done with real short 130 grain cast bullets. Because of the ogive and the overall length of the cartridges, the bullets barley reach forward far enough to be held underneath the front feed-lips of the magazine.

I wish you could have seen the "Sh!!!+-Eating-Grin" on my face as I cycled all 15 rounds out of that magazine for the first time.:-D It worked. It really worked. Honestly, I was sure I'd have to go back in and re-do the curvature of the lower two-thirds of this magazine at least a couple time more before I got it to work. I still think that perhaps if I added about a half-inch more of forward curvature to the lower two-thirds of the mag-body those last three rounds wouldn't give me as much resistance as they do as I'm pushing them down into the magazine.

I'll take some photos of this latest iteration by this weekend. I should have done it today but I was just so excited that I finally got it to work that I got ahead of myself by posting this update.

If I lay 15 rounds on my work bench in a double column as they would sit in the magazine I can clearly see that my latest 3D printed magazine is a bit on the long side. This tells me that if I add more curve to the mag-body, which will (I hope) reduce the existing resistance of those last few rounds, I'll be able to shorten that overall length of my magazine by just a bit so that it better fits the overall dimensions of a short rifle like the my cut down Lee Enfield No.4 Mk1.

It looks like one more 3D print will be in order just to confirm this theory. In the mean time I'll be posting some pics of my present success within the next couple of days. Once I get that last -more curved- prototype printed and tested, I'll then post a short video to prove that what I've just written in this long-winded post is all true.

I'll be back.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Here are some quick pics that show the comparison between my previous 3D printed mag body and this latest attempt. The one with the more pronounced curvature is the one that I got to hold the full 15 rounds. Even still, those last few cartridges that made up the full 15 rounds were a bear to get loaded.

Now with the latest tweaks to my CAD model I'm pretty sure my next print will be my final working print. (that's what I thought last time, Ha.) Anyway, these two pics will give you an idea where I'm at with this 3D print project.

From a purely aesthetic point of view, after looking at the mag while it was installed I found that I wasn't to crazy about the sharpness of the lower front corner of this magazine in its present form. I'll be changing that up a bit so that it looks a little more like the bottoms of a common AK magazine. On those magazines both the front and rear bottom corners are pretty uniform. The finished 3d print I have pictured here just appears a bit to sharp for my liking.

I am happy that I'm making progress with this project. With any luck I might have it all done by next week so I can move on to the next project. You know? I'm starting to think I can make extended magazines for my 1911 and my Khar 9mm pistols too. It's amazing what can be made with these 3D printers. All that's needed is a little imagination.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

Imagination, and LOTS of hard work!

[HollowPoint]

I finally finished the print of the latest design change to my Lee Enfield 3D printed 15 round extended magazine. It looks really good, it fits really good but, like the first three printouts, it only cycled reliably with no more than ten rounds loaded.

After fiddling around with the dimensions of the follower I was able to get a maximum of 12 rounds loaded into the magazine. I took a apart a few times to smooth out the various interior surfaces and I was still only able to get 12 max loaded into it. I've determined that because of the curvature of this latest mag-print I'm going to have to fabricate a magazine spring with a different configuration. I've been using the same home made magazine spring for all of the different print iterations I've made so far. (5, counting this latest one) The problem seems to be that the dimensions of that original home made mag-spring are not long enough front to back and not wide enough side to side as it sits in the mag-body. That original mag-spring functioned Ok with the mag-bodies that were closer to straight up and down but now with the curve added to this latest print the spring is not pushing the follower/cartridges up with enough force to keep the cartridges aligned in the horizontal position within the magazine.

I tried setting my existing mag-spring so that most of the upward pressure is focused at the rear of the follower but then the front part of the follower does not pivot up enough to support the front-most part of the loaded cartridges.

Making a correctly configured mag-spring isn't that difficult; what's difficult is finding lengths of music wire longer than the 36" stuff they sell at the hardware store. As it is right now with the magazine loaded with a maximum of 12 rounds, they will cycle and feed OK but there's a slight lag time that occurs as each successive cartridge is pushed upward by the existing spring. I need to find a source of music wire that's about 40 or 50 inches so that I can bend it closer to the dimensions of the inside of the mag-body and still have enough wire to go from the base of the magazine to the underside of my follower.

Do any of you guys know where I might find music wire in these lengths? I don't want to try buying pre-made mag-springs cause I know they won't be made in the shapes that I need. I suppose if I tried making a single stack magazine for these same cartridges like the one pictured in the link I posted a couple of days ago I might be able to just buy a premade mag-spring but, I was hoping to be able to make everything myself. If I were to make a single stack it would most likely be way to long for my liking.

I'll post pics of this latest 3D printed magazine by the week end. Maybe by then I will have come up with a work-around for this magazine spring dilemma.

HollowPoint

[Bulldogger]

Congratulations on your success after hard work. It looks great.

I noticed Amazon now sells music wire. If they are not on your ignore list, you can find spools there for a very good price.

On the strength of print versus orientation, you might try a new Slicer program. For instance, the new version of Cura I downloaded a month or two ago is vastly changed from a few years ago. It allows you to select the pattern of the infill; you can print zigzags, herringbone, it's crazy the choices they give. It is well beyond the back and forth pattern that the early versions used.

I've also learned in practice, after some kind advice, that it is beneficial to my setup to print at higher temperatures that I would have otherwise. I now print ABS with my heated bed at 110C and nozzle at 235C now, and strength has improved.

So between those two, there might be something to help you get your mags even stronger.

Bulldogger



I finally finished the print of the latest design change to my Lee Enfield 3D printed 15 round extended magazine. It looks really good, it fits really good but, like the first three printouts, it will only cycle reliably with no more than ten rounds loaded.

After fiddling around with the dimensions of the follower I was able to get a maximum of 12 rounds loaded into the magazine. I took a apart a few times to smooth out the various interior surfaces and I was still only able to get 12 max loaded into it. I've determined that because of the curvature of this latest mag-print I'm going to have to fabricate a magazine spring with a different configuration. I've been using the same home made magazine spring for all of the different print iterations I've made so far. (5, counting this latest one) The problem seems to be that the dimensions of that original home made mag-spring are not long enough front to back and not wide enough side to side as it sits in the mag-body. That original mag-spring functioned Ok with the mag-bodies that were closer to straight up and down but now with the curve added to this latest print the spring is not pushing the follower/cartridges up with enough force to keep the cartridges aligned in the horizontal position within the magazine.

I tried setting my existing mag-spring so that most of the upward pressure is focused at the rear of the follower but then the front part of the follower does not pivot up enough to support the front-most part of the loaded cartridges.

Making a correctly configured mag-spring isn't that difficult; what's difficult is finding lengths of music wire longer than the 36" stuff they sell at the hardware store. As it is right now with the magazine loaded with a maximum of 12 rounds, they will cycle and feed OK but there's a slight lag time that occurs as each successive cartridge is pushed upward by the existing spring. I need to find a source of music wire that's about 40 or 50 inches so that I can bend it closer to the dimensions of the inside of the mag-body and still have enough wire to go from the base of the magazine to the underside of my follower.

Do any of you guys know where I might find music wire in these lengths? I don't want to try buying pre-made mag-springs cause I know they won't be made in the shapes that I need. I suppose if I tried making a single stack magazine for these same cartridges like the one pictured in the link I posted a couple of days ago I might be able to just buy a premade mag-spring but, I was hoping to be able to make everything myself. If I were to make a single stack it would most likely be way to long for my liking.

I'll post pics of this latest 3D printed magazine by the week end. Maybe by then I will have come up with a work-around for this magazine spring dilemma.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Congratulations on your success after hard work. It looks great.

I noticed Amazon now sells music wire. If they are not on your ignore list, you can find spools there for a very good price.

On the strength of print versus orientation, you might try a new Slicer program. For instance, the new version of Cura I downloaded a month or two ago is vastly changed from a few years ago. It allows you to select the pattern of the infill; you can print zigzags, herringbone, it's crazy the choices they give. It is well beyond the back and forth pattern that the early versions used.

I've also learned in practice, after some kind advice, that it is beneficial to my setup to print at higher temperatures that I would have otherwise. I now print ABS with my heated bed at 110C and nozzle at 235C now, and strength has improved.

So between those two, there might be something to help you get your mags even stronger.

Bulldogger

Hi Bulldogger; and thanks for the good word.

I never thought of checking amazon. I have an account with them so that would certainly simplify things. I'll check with them as soon as I've finished this reply.

I'm presently printing the ABS I'm using at a temperature of 245c with my print bed set at 110. Since I'm using a "Raft" at the base of these prints the printer automatically lays down the first few layers at 250c just to get it to adhere to the bed. After that my ABS prints seem to be holding strong regardless of the print orientation. I did have problems initially when I tried printing the magazine bodies with Carbon Fiber filament. They came out looking great but the trade off was that they were also much more brittle than the ABS filament. I think I have that hurdle pretty well under control now.

I'm using a Flashforge Creator Pro 3D printer. It came with a proprietary slicer software included. Once I figured out how to use it, it seems to be more than what I need as of right now. I still don't know how to use the vast majority of the features of this slicer software. The software of the printer itself is preset (more or less) for printing with various types of filament. These are just base settings configured to using the filaments that Flashforge hopes you'll keep buying from them but being that I'm a cheap-skate, I buy the cheapest filaments I can right now. Once I dial in the correct print recipes for these cheaper filaments I try not to mess with any of the other settings other than the temperature, support and raft settings. My prints are now coming out fairly decent for what I need. Whenever possible, I will keep trying to improve on them though.

Thanks again for the heads up on the Amazon thing.

HollowPoint

[Bulldogger]

Happy to help. I have good results with two coats of disappearing purple Elmer's glue stick on my print bed (I print on glass). It's water soluble, so no print however bad can stay stuck forever (if you keep the surface wet). I can stretch prints to 2-3 times between washing and recoating if I add a little glue along the edges of wherever the previous print was lifted. I too use brim and raft, depending on the size and duration of the print. Sounds like you're on the right track.
BDGR

[HollowPoint]

I just wanted to show you where I'm at so far. I printed out the fifth iteration of this extended magazine design. Like the previous two print outs this one also worked but only with ten rounds or less loaded into the magazine.

The rimmed 303 British cases make it necessary to have the shape of the follower and the shape and the force of the magazine spring Spot-On in order for me to be able to load all fifteen cartridges and then to be able to cycle them into the chamber reliably.

I've been using the same home made magazine spring for each different iteration of this magazine design so it's no wonder I'm now having problems loading all 15 rounds without the cartridges wanting to bind in the front-to-back tilted position of the magazine follower. Through the process of trial and error I'm having to figure out the precise angles and dimensions of the magazine body, the magazine spring and the follower so that they all work together seamlessly to give me a reliable 3D printed magazine. Thanks to Bulldogger, I found some useable music wire online that is thick enough and long enough that will work for this application. I just have to order some up now.

The 3D printed K31 Swiss extended 12 round magazine I recently finished was a piece of cake compared to this Lee Enfield magazine. No matter; I'm sure I'll figure it out given enough time. I'm going to try to print a copy using transparent ABS filament. This will allow me to see exactly where the sticking points are inside the magazine as I'm loading each of the rounds into the magazine. I should have done this to begin with but I never really thought of it till now. It probably would have saved me alot of hassles.

Due to some emergency home repairs, for the time being this project is temporarly on hold till I can fix a plumbing leak in a hard to reach area of the house. I should be back on this project by the end of next week. Wish me luck.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Well, I got that roll of transparent ABS filament finally. What a piece of krapp roll of filament this is turning out to be. In my attempt to figure out the correct print recipe for it I've gone though twelve failed prints thus far. The first three prints failed because I hadn't noticed that about an inch depth into that the filament roll there was a tangle in the line at about every three or four yards into that roll. It would start to print fine then I'd leave it unattended and it would reach the point in the print where the tangle was so my printer could no longer pull filament off of the roll. It would just go through the print motions leaving me scratching my head wondering what went wrong.

Once I figured that out I found that the next four attempts were starting out Ok but then immediately after my "Raft" was laid down and the first few layers of my print looked promising, I'd then start to experience undersized prints until the print nozzle had printed to about an inch above the heated bed, then the print would begin to conform to the specs of my CAD models. It turned out that the heated bed temperature was to blame for those failed four attempts.

The following last four failed attempts were mainly caused by me trying to dial in the bed temperatures and the extruder temperature so as to get my printer to turn out a print that conformed to my CAD models. This "Transparent" ABS filament isn't truly transparent but, it's clear enough that it should help me to figure out exactly what interior dimension-tweaks I need to make in order to get all 15 of those 303 British rimmed cartridges to load without the resistance I'm getting now with the black ABS magazine body.

My clear Lee Enfield magazine body is printing even as I write this update. Unless I run into some issues somewhere during the printing of this prototype, it should be finished tomorrow morning sometime. It's a 14 hour and 23 minute print; if you can believe that. I'd round it out to a 15 hour print.

I'll post a pic of the finished print, along with the small mountain of failed prints once I have it all cleaned up. Also; I ordered some more music wire. I was going to order it from Amazon but I didn't think I'd ever use a 124' roll of the stuff so I was able to find a ten-foot length of the same diameter music wire on Ebay for a bit less in price. It should be here next week.

I'll be back within the next few days, hopefully I'll be able to show you all a magazine body that's transparent enough for you to see what all of my long winded posts have been about.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Lee Enfield 3D Printed 15 Round Extended Magazine. I was hoping that I could give you a clearer view of my "Transparent" 3D printed magazine body with all 15 cartridges loaded so you could see with your own eyes exactly what I'm seening as I hold it up against the light. I'm afraid I couldn't get any of my photo attempts to come out any clearer than this.

Anyway; here it is with all 15 rounds loaded. I had to remove the floor plate and let the spring hang out the bottom of the mag body in order load all the rounds but, it gives you some idea of what I was talking about in my previous post regarding this Lee Enfield magazine project.

Notice how the cartridges in the middle of the stack are tilted upward as they should be but the front edge of the follower is stuck hard against the front-most inside wall. Also, the top-most cartriges are laying horizontally while all the rest are tilted upward at the front. This is all due to the interplay between the follower and the magazine spring. The Follower and the Magazine Spring will have to be re-configured.

I found the new ten foot roll of music wire I order sitting in my mail box this morning so with any luck I'll be able to play around with the reconfiguration of my Magazine Follower and Mag-Spring this coming week.


HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I see what's happening now. I can see where the hang up in this magazine's overall design geometry is. My newly made magazine spring turned out pretty good. It worked just as I'd hoped it would but, the two geometry changes I've made to my follower have only been incrementally helpful.

I'll post pics of those changes in my follower's design/geometry within a couple of days but, both those design changes have improved the loading of the magazine by a couple more rounds each time. I've actually gotten all 15 rounds to load but at rounds 14 and 15, the first cartridge sitting on the follower is tilted at such an angle that the top edge of the cartridge-rim is caught and held fast by the horizontal layers that my 3D printer has laid down as it prints the back wall of the magazine.

There's no way I can get a file or a piece of sand paper in there to sand or file the areas where the hang ups are occurring without doing more damage than good so, it looks like I'll have to draw up a new magazine model from scratch again. I knew I'd have to do this eventually after printing up the "Transparent" mag body I recently printed so that's not really a big deal for me. It shouldn't take to long because I have plenty of practice now. The really hard part is trying to describe what I'm talking about with the written word.

If I hadn't printed that last "Transparent" copy of my magazine body I would have never known what the hang up was. I even tested my latest magazine follower in one of the earlier 3D prints to see how many cartridges I could get into it. I got the same outcome there too. I was able to load up to 12 cartridges before I started feeling resistance. Actually, loading the magazine is now the easy part. It's getting those cartridges to spring back up under the spring tension that's causing the hang up. I can force all fifteen rounds into the magazine but, the point at which I start getting resistance is the same point at which the top edge of the bottom-most cartridge is starting to catch on the back wall of the mag body. (I'm referring to the initial cartridge that sits directly on the follower)

I'll have to make it a point to get a few split-view "Screen Captures" as I'm drawing up those new CAD models so I can show you all where those cartridge rims are catching and the geometry changes I've had to make to counteract the effects of the hang up I'm experiencing now.

Back when I printed that very first CAD model I was able to get all 15 rounds in that magazine, and I was able to get them to cycle the first few times I tried but, after those first couple of attempts it just quit working. I know now what was happening but, back then there was no way I could see through the walls of that black ABS magazine to know that I had eventually worn a rough gouge on the rear wall of the magazine. I'd just assumed that my mag-spring was to weak. One of the other things I learned from my "Transparent" copy was that I can shorten the overall length of my magazine body by about a half inch or so too.

I know it's probably hard for most of you to picture in your minds what the heck I'm talking about so I'll be back with the pics to help explain all of the above; hopefully by next weekend I'll be able to make more sense to you guys.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

In an effort to try to make my last post a little more clear I thought I'd post a couple of pics to do just that. One of those pics is of the three different iterations of the followers I've been tweaking. The prints themselves are some of the poorer quality prints I made up while testing some new print recipes so they look rather horrendous but, disregard the poor quality of the print and notice the changes in the angles from front to back. This is where the changes were made.

The other photo shows what I attempted to describe in my previous post when I wrote about the rims of the cases hanging up on the rear wall of the magazine. I'm presently re-drawing my CAD models to hopefully eliminate this snagging so as to get the magazine spring to do its' job and push that stack of 15 cartridges up smoothly and reliably.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Here's a few more explanatory pics of the problems I've encountered and the tweaks I've made to my models in order to counter those problems. It looks like they'll work but, that's what I said last time.

With any luck I'll be able to print them up sometime next week to see if in fact I've been able to fix the hang ups I was encountering. I've made a couple of other minor changes which include moving the two little cartridge-alignment-nubs forward by about 1/8" and shortening the overall length of the magazine body at the bottom by .8".

If you recall, I mentioned that when I had all 15 rounds loaded into my "Transparent" magazine there appeared to be more than enough room for all the cartridges, the follower and the magazine spring so I took that to mean that my magazine body didn't have to be as long as it was and still be able to accommodate all 15 rounds. Lets hope I didn't cut to much off of the length.

I'll be making one more minor change to my follower and then I'll be able to assemble and test it again. I'll be adding a .1" divot to the center outward facing rear wall so as to correspond with the raised section of the grooves I've incorporated into that inside rear wall. I'll be back once I get it all printed out, put together and tested.


HollowPoint



I

[HollowPoint]

This Lee Enfield Extended 15 round magazine project is kicking my butt.

I printed out the magazine body that I uploaded those previous computer renderings of; the ones with the integral internal tracks inside on the rear wall of the magazine body. I was sure it would work this time but, like the previous three printouts, I was able to load all 15 rounds into it without as much trouble as before. Loading wasn't a problem. It was getting the bullets in that double stack of cartridges to spring back up evenly so that the bolt on my rifle would strip each one out of the magazine in succession.

Even with those interior molded tracks the loaded rounds were still hanging up but not on the rear wall anymore. This time it was the rear-most portions of both side walls. The rims of the cartridges were hanging up on both of the rear inside corners of the magazine.

I got out my digital calipers and proceeded to re-measure the interior and exterior dimensions again to compare them for the factory magazine dimensions only to find that the walls of my printed Magazine bodies were measuring .007" thicker than the .06" they were supposed to be. I then re-drew the walls on an all new CAD drawing to compensate for the slightly thicker than designed printed walls I was getting. This time I made the thickness of my magazine walls .048" thick. This was the actual thickness of the factory metal walls on my factory magazine.

I also included all four of the factory vertical ribs that were stamped into the factory magazine side walls. I basically copied the factory magazine as closely as possible in dimensions including the vertical ribbing. I wanted to see if this would allow the loaded rounds to spring back up in reliably and in succession so that the bolt of my rifle could strip them cleanly from the magazine.

In the same way that it worked when I printed that carbon fiber prototype I made for my K31 extended magazine project, thinning the walls of my Lee Enfield 3D printed magazine also worked BUT, the walls of my 3D printed magazine were now so thin that the two front feed-lips snapped off at their bases after the second time I loaded and cycled the loaded magazine into and out of my chamber.

So, where does that leave me now??? I think I'm going to try printing out the lower two-thirds of another prototype magazine body with some divots molded into the interior wall that will accept and hold in place a hand made metal upper portion. This metal upper portion should be strong enough to retain its' shape without the small front-most metal feed-lips breaking off.

I think I've got the right dimensions now. Heck I've had those correct dimensions all along in the form of my factory magazine but, the purpose of this project was to try to 3D print the entire thing. For this particular gun (the Lee Enfield type of rifle) this may not be feasible given how thin I'd have to print the upper portion of this magazine.

I'll be back when I've figured out the correct bending procedure for the sheet metal I'll be utilizing. Any suggestions on the sheet metal type I might use would be appreciated. I'm thinking that at first I'll just use some of the aluminum sheeting I use to make gas checks just to get the shape of the pattern down. I'm not really knowledgeable about the various types of sheet metal I could use. I guess some more research in in order. As far as how I'll go about 3D printing the lower two-thirds of this yet to be printed magazine body, I'm relatively sure I have that figured out now. I've learned that the hard way.

I'll try to post some images of that latest mag body I've just described above some time later this coming week.

HollowPoint.

[HollowPoint]

Lee Enfield

3D Printed Extended 15 Round Magazine.

I was sure that my last iteration of this Extended Magazine print would work; especially since I integrated those two friction reducing vertical grooves on the rear inside wall but he freaken thing still didn't work. What I mean is; I could load all 15 rounds into it and cycle the first four or five rounds with no problem but, then the remaining 303 rimmed cartridges would get hung up and the bolt could no longer strip them from the magazine.

With all of the previous prints of this same magazine I deliberatly made the side walls a little thicker than the thickness of the factory magazine walls. This worked well on my recently completed K31 Extended Magazine project but this Lee Enfield magazine is a whole different animal.

On this last print I decided to use the exact measurements to duplicate the measurements of my factory magazine. This included integrating the vertical ribs seen on the factory magazine. It worked! It really worked but, not for long.

I loaded and cycled all 15 rounds into the magazine. Then I re-loaded the magazine to see if I could do it again to varify that it wasn't just a fluke. That second attempt did me in. The side walls seemed to hold up ok but the front-feed-lips were now the weak points of the magazine. The left side front feed lip cracked clean off under the pressue of the mag-spring so, it's back to the drawing board.

This Lee Enfield Extended magazine project has been kicking my buttocks but, I haven't given up just yet; especially now that I actually got the darn thing to work. I'm thinking that I can still 3D print the follower, the base plate and the lower two-thirds of the magazine body but I'm going to have to make the upper portion (the portion with the feed lips that slips up into the mag-well of the rifle) out of some kind of sheet metal.

If any of you guys can suggest a suitable type of sheet metal for this application let me know.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I've been working frantically for the last few weeks trying to finish up all the residual work I had left over from my income producing job. Technically I retired at the end of August but, I still had jobs scheduled for as far out as February of next year so It will be that long before my schedule is actually free of any more work. For a retired guy, I haven't worked so hard in my life like I have these past few weeks.


In the mean time, I've been trying to figure out how to use the "Sheetmetal" design features on my SolidWorks CAD software in order to draw up the models of the upper portion of what I hope will become the final working prototype of my Lee Enfield extended 15 round magazine. I'm self taught on this software so it takes a bit of trial and error before I'm any good at any new feature I'm trying to learn. I made it part way through the first tutorial on how to use the "Sheetmetal" design feature so with any luck I'll be able to lay out the sheet metal shape of my magazine upper by the weekend. If it works out I'll post an image or two of the CAD renderings I've drawn up.

I just didn't want anyone to think I had abandoned this project just because of a few set backs.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I finally figured out enough of my SolidWorks CAD software's "Sheet Metal" features to be able to post some computer renderings of what I was trying to describe in my previous posts. All of my attempts with the written word generally don't make any sense unless you happen to use CAD software of some kind. On the other hand, me stating it like that makes it sound like it takes some kind of special talent to use. Not so. I'm dyslexic so it takes alot of trial and error to figure out.

Following are the pics I was referring too. I hope they make sense. This is just some pics of the sheet metal upper I'm hoping to fabricate. If I can get that far I can then move on to the 3D printed lower two-thirds of this same project.

It's taken me a few weeks to figure out just enough of the "Sheet Metal" features on my SolidWorks CAD software to move forward with this project. I was able to get to the point where I could make some computer renderings of what I've been working toward with my Lee Enfield Extended 15 Round magazine project. These aren't the prettiest computer renderings but hopefully it will give you all an idea of what I've been trying to fabricate.

Those of you who may have been following this Lee Enfield extended 15 round magazine know that my last several prototypes worked but only to a certain point. By taking further measurements of those previously 3D printed magazine I found that the wall thicknesses of those 3D printed prototypes was causing to much friction to allow the loaded cartridges to be pushed upward by the mag-spring. To that end I decided to try making the upper one-third of this magazine out of sheet metal that closer resembled the dimensions of the factory magazine and then inserting that upper sheet metal section down into a 3D printed lower two-thirds of the magazine.

Wish me luck.

[lar45]

Just a couple of thoughts, I don't know if any of this applies or not, or if you have already covered it. ..
What if you made an extended follower with a radius on the front, and or back, to line up with the inside of the magazine. That might keep it from getting out of alignment and binding up.
Another thought was putting a little vertical lip at the back of the follower to keep that first rim from getting caught.

[HollowPoint]

Just a couple of thoughts, I don't know if any of this applies or not, or if you have already covered it. ..
What if you made an extended follower with a radius on the front, and or back, to line up with the inside of the magazine. That might keep it from getting out of alignment and binding up.
Another thought was putting a little vertical lip at the back of the follower to keep that first rim from getting caught.

I've actually done both of those things. At the time I thought that one or both of those alterations would fix the friction I was getting at the case heads of the loaded cartridges. This was before determining that the thickness of the walls that I had to print the the magazine at was constriction the cartridges to tightly from side to side. All the small alterations I've made to the various versions of this project magazine have helped a bit but I was still not getting the loaded cartridges to move upward in succession as they should under the upward pressure of the mag spring.

With the exception of the last iteration I printed. On that particular print I printed the walls of the magazine to the thickness of the factory magazine's wall. It worked as I'd hoped but when I reloaded that same 3D printed magazine the second time the left front feed lip snapped clean off. As the rest of the loaded cartridges made their escape out the top of the magazine they nearly took our the right front feed lip as well. It didn't break completely off but it's base where it attached to the right side wall of the magazine was now compromised and to weak to hold the cartridges in the mag all by itself.

On this same page I've posted some pics of the various followers I tried. On one of those followers you can clearly see the vertical wall similar to the description you suggested. It didn't work as I'd hoped because the follower was tilting to far back which caused the upper edges of the cartridge rims to make contact with the rear wall of the magazine.

I'm hoping the sheet metal upper will do the trick so I can call this project finished. Right now finding the free time to work on the project is the hard part. I'm thinking it will be done by Christmas. I'm hoping so at least. I have a few more less complicated projects I'd like to get to before then too.

HollowPoint

[fishingsetx]

Nice work! Im not at all familiar with the k31, but I do love my 3d printer! 7 hrs for a print isnt bad at all. My last attempted print that failed was 59 hrs and failed miserably at 34 hrs. Ive contemplated trying to design a mag for a daisy .22lr I have in the safe with no mag, but I have zero to go off of except internet pics and the mag well so ive been leery of attempting it. That and my 3d cad skills are less than knowing nothing! Here is a pic of the most complicated design ive ever done hahaha.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181119/1b63b4b4e3483dadd7a22e07231f5854.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181119/99ae239c7319701b6f133a29c1977860.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181119/3fb968216f9df3cbdda0fede533499a3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181119/fb7224a468cf00170fb7513c22f7f3d1.jpg

Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians!

[HollowPoint]

Once I get my CAD drawing printed out I plan on first transferring it onto a piece of cardboard and making my bends on it to make sure I'm bending it right and to be able to dry fit it up into my mag-well.

I seems that you might be able to make a prototype out of balsa-wood with minimal effort to test if your measurements or good. From the sample pics you posted it looks like you're well on your way to eventually getting a good end result.

Even though I know how to use my CAD software well enough to make fairly accurate 3D models, I still have to do alot of trial and error trouble shooting to get my stuff to end up the way I want it to. It's just a matter of perseverance.

HollowPoint

[Bulldogger]

I saw mention of your not being able to get inside the printed mag to smooth it out in effort to reduce hangups. What about Acetone? A cotton ball twisted in some stiff wire could be soaked with acetone and you could "paint" the interior smooth with the acetone. It's what I'd try, if I'd printed it myself. Acetone dissolves ABS, but not too aggressively.
I still think it can work!
BDGR

[HollowPoint]

If I can't get this metal upper to work for me I'll give the acetone treatment a try. I've come to the conclusion that it wasn't really the texture of the inside wall surface that was causing the friction. It was the thickness of the 3D printed walls that was giving me a finished inside dimension that was constricting the cartridges along the rear wall as well as along the side walls right where the case-rims were touching.

When I printed my last attempt I deliberately made the walls thinner in order to get the inside dimensions of my 3D printed magazine body match up with the factory magazine's inside dimensions. That seemed to do the trick as far as mitigating the friction I mentioned but, those thinner wall meant that the feed lips were now susceptible to breakage; and they did just that. They broke. On a positive note; they did confirm my suspicions about the constriction being caused by having to wall printed as thick as they were.

I know this post is a long read but, I think I've covered all of this in my previous posts. I'm still just waiting for some free time to come along again so I can get back at it. I'd kind of like to get this project finished up.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

Could use Acetone Vapor Polishing for 3D Printed ABS Plastic: https://www.instructables.com/id/Acetone-Vapor-Polishing-for-3D-Printed-ABS-Plastic/

[HollowPoint]

It took me a while but I finally figured out how to print out 1:1 scale paper ink prints of the Sheet Metal upper section of my Lee Enfield 15 round extended magazine. I'm embarrassed to tell you how many times I screwed that up trying to print them to scale from a screen-shot; then a screen-shot transferred to my Photoshop software in order to enlarge it to the right size. Lets just say I killed an entire pine tree worth of paper to no avail.

Then I got the bright idea to go to YouTube and look for a how to video. This always seems to be my last resort when I can't figure out the features of my Solidworks software. Turns out it was a piece of cake, once you know how to do it.

So no I have my print outs and they're printed out perfectly to scale so, in theory I should be able to transfer those patterns to a piece of cardboard of the correct thickness and start bending at all of the marked bend locations. If all goes according to plan, I can then transfer that same pattern to a piece of sheet metal to see if all of this was worth the effort.

You've already seen the schematic drawings I've posted. That's basically what I printed out. I'll try to post some pics of the folded cardboard replicas as soon as I get some more free time. On paper it looks like it's going to work. I'll just have to wait and see how it compares to reality.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

The one to one ratio print outs I made came out spot on in terms of size. I was also able to transfer the patterns to my cardboard stock and make the needed folds. So far so good.

The one thing I didn't take into account was the vertical creases on the side walls of my cardboard or of my upcoming sheet metal prototypes. Right now I'm not completely sure if making those vertical creases will stretch the metal in those particular areas and still leave me with the correct overall dimensions or, if it will cause a slight front to back shrinkage in measurement that I'll have to compensate for by tweaking my CAD models.

I guess the only way to find out is to try. I made sure to print a few of my 1 to 1 patterns to give me some room for error. I'll do the sheet metal cutting and bending within the next couple of weeks as time permits.

HollowPoint

[Mr_Sheesh]

They are making laser cutter/engravers cheaper and cheaper; I was given an old one for free, some time ago. Once I move and get it back from the friend who has it, my thought is to cut paper patches and cardboard templates like this with it. (It's just a 30-40W unit, enough for paper though!)

[HollowPoint]

At the speed technology is advancing, by the time I get this project done I'm sure there will be one or more inexpensive high-tech gadgets on the market that will make this kind of stuff look like child's play. For now though, I'll just muddle through the trial-and-error way.

HollowPoint