Beretta 92s

[fatelk]

Numrich had a Father's Day special I got an email about: Italian police trade in Beretta 92s pistols for $199.

I know these have been on the market for a while but I hadn't really looked at them before. I've never even owned a Beretta. Anyone here have one of these?

[TCLouis]

I wonder if they shoot theirs more . . . or less that a police agency in the US of A?

Price certainly seems right

[Kestrel4k]

RE: 92S;

I bought four of them in the last offering; condition comparable to my four S&W M64 police trade-ins - some good, some worn - but all were very smooth & quite a good value.

This Euro model has the heel mag release; so for extra mags, can use Taurus M92 mags but not the US M92 mags unless you add a catch cutout near the magazine base - which wasn't difficult, but just an FYI. The one mag they'd ship with is very nice.

I acutally like the heel mag release as it is close in placement to my Ruger MkII pistols - but some may not like that.

Great pistols & very smooth. All metal of course, not like our new M92's which have the plastic guide rod and ?plastic trigger? now.

$200 ?? Buy buy buy. :)

[robertbank]

Jeez for that price they are a steal. That said I have seen examples running from looking like they were dragged behind a school bus to virtually new, unfired. For $200US how can you go wrong?

I love my 92A1 and Compact. Accurate and dead nuts reliable.

Take Care

Bob

[fatelk]

Thanks everyone. I was at work and almost deleted the email, but mentioned it to my wife on the phone. We’ve been pinching pennies pretty tight due to some medical bills, but a couple hundred bucks won’t break the budget so she got online and bought it for me. They were sold out the next day.

I’ll let you all know how it looks when it gets here.

[Greg S]

Are they 9mm x 19, luger, nato or 9mm Largo?

[fatelk]

They're a standard, modern 9x19 pistol. The only real difference that I can see is the mag release is in a different place.

[Kestrel4k]

And the decocker is slide-mounted, not frame mounted as I understand the US models to be.

[robertbank]

[QUOTE=Kestrel4k;4395004]And the decocker is slide-mounted, not frame mounted as I understand the US models to be.[/QUOTE

All but the early versions of the 92 Series pistols have the decocker on the slide rather than the frame, including those Beretta pistols manufactured in the US. Several other pistol manufacturers have mounted the decocker on the frame - CZ and SIG come to mind. Most manufacturers mount the safeties on the frame including CZ, S&W, Colt and others. A lot just depends on the model and design of the gun.

For a long time I stayed away from the 92 Series because of the slide mounted decocker only to discover the gun late in my shooting and now think the Beretta 92FS and it's sibblings is one of the best pistols I own. The slide mounted decocker works just fine.

Take Care

Bob

[Hickok]

The 92 is a large/big pistol, and with the 9mm cartridge, it really makes it easy for me to stay on target and be accurate when shooting fast.

Recoil seems low due to weight of the gun, and recovery/sights on target is easy and quick.

[tazman]

The Taurus PT92 has a frame mounted safety/decoder that works perfectly and doesn’t require a different movement of the safety from the 1911 to work as you might think.
I like to be able to work my handguns in the same manner so I won’t make a mistake when it may count.

[robertbank]

The Taurus PT92 has a frame mounted safety/decoder that works perfectly and doesn’t require a different movement of the safety from the 1911 to work as you might think.
I like to be able to work my handguns in the same manner so I won’t make a mistake when it may count.

That works IF you are a large fan of the 1911. I can't imagine anyone familiar with the 92 decocker system would have difficulty using it or the 1911. For one thing once you apply the decocker while reloading and raise the decocker lever there is nothing else to do. The gun is essentially in the same ready position as a revolver or a striker fired pistol. Completely safe to carry yet ready to fire simply by pulling the DA trigger.

Those weaned on striker fired pistols argue there is no need for a frame mounted safety like that found on the 1911. Odd how perspective changes from one generation to another.

Take Care

Bob

[tazman]

My concern was the safety lever on the Beretta 92 needs to be pushed upwards to release the safety, which is the exact opposite of the Taurus PT92 and the 1911. I want my pistols to work in the same manner.
I really don't care about the decocker or how it works, just the safety mechanism. And I am a fan of the 1911.

[robertbank]

I know what you mean but you push the lever up once you load the gun and then carry it that way. There is no need to touch it again unlike the 1911 where you carry it cocked and locked and you have to release the safety before firing. The up/down action is not relevant that is all I am saying.

Take Care

Bob

[tazman]

I understand.
I am so used to working the 1911 that I try to get pistols that work in a similar fashion.
The fun part is I can carry the Taurus cocked and locked since applying the safety does not drop the hammer as happens with the Beretta. That long, hard, double action pull does nothing to help my accuracy.
My other semi auto pistols can either be cocked and locked or just have a safety that works similar to the 1911.
The only other handguns I will carry are revolvers.

[robertbank]

Well carrying a decocked pistol is pretty much the same as carrying a revolver. If you carry a revolver the Da pull of the 92 Series would be the same. I do agree there is nothing as crisp as the SA pull of the 1911.

Take Care

Bob

[fatelk]

Well, it arrived and I picked it up at the LGS today. I have to say I'm shocked at the condition and regretful about buying it.



Shocked because it looks almost like new, and regretful that I only bought one! Other than some scuffing on one grip, I'd say this gun is an honest 95%. Inside and out, it's almost pristine. After shipping, transfer, and OSP BGC, it came to $260.

[robertbank]

Well, it arrived and I picked it up at the LGS today. I have to say I'm shocked at the condition and regretful about buying it.



Shocked because it looks almost like new, and regretful that I only bought one! Other than some scuffing on one grip, I'd say this gun is an honest 95%. Inside and out, it's almost pristine. After shipping, transfer, and OSP BGC, it came to $260.

Ya stole it! The 92's are great pistols.

Take Care

Bob

[fatelk]

Here's a question for you guys:

I shot this gun at the range. It makes nice little groups, but shoots way high. I didn't measure, but something like 8" to 10" at 25 yards. The front sight is a machined part of the slide, and the rear sight is pretty low already. Any ideas as to what can be done with it?

[TCLouis]

Enough metal to dovetail and add a sight?

[fatelk]

I'm thinking not, it looks too thin. I wonder about maybe an extremely low rear sight?

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[robertbank]

Wilson Combat mounts a dovetail on 92FS slides so you might want to contact them to see if they could do it for the 92s.

It is pretty thin. Have you tried adjusting your sight picture? You may just have to. Either that or go to lighter bullets, say a hot 115 gr FMJ. All the guns have the same slide and sight arrangement and the guns are not made to shoot high.

Take Care

Bob

[Combat Diver]

I worked with the Italian Special Forces in Italy back in the late 80s. They were using the 92S and we got to play with them. I was already used to the M9 which was just coming into service but still retained the M1911A1 with 1/10th SF in Germany at the time. Those 92S were very soft shooting and accurate. Beretta imports plenty of NEW spare mags which have both mag catches on the mag bodies. Easy to modify cheap USGI surplus mags to work (can do the same to convert them to fit the Taurus 92 series) Just measure and file a notch in the magazine body.

CD

[fatelk]

Have you tried adjusting your sight picture? You may just have to.

I had some clay targets out on the berm, maybe 30 or 35 yards away. I was nailing them by aiming at least a foot below them. I'm not terribly worried about it. I don't plan to spend any money on gunsmithing for it. I bought it because it's a neat old gun that was really cheap. I have other nicer guns that shoot to point of aim.

If I can figure out some way to get it to shoot right that would be great, but if I have to just learn to aim low with it then it's no big deal. It won't be much different than learning to use that mag release that's in the wrong dang spot!

[asmith80]

I have one of these too, and I did some research in getting some new sights installed. It can be done, but it's expensive. Basically, a gunsmith has to hollow out the front sight you want to use so that it will slip over the existing front sight, then install a cross pin to keep it from coming off. The rear sight can have a different dovetail cut, but it's tight as there's not a lot of extra room.

It'd cost more than you spent on the gun to get it done

[fecmech]

If you know a "good" welder just have him run a bead on top of that sight, file to correct height and cold blue.

[Petrol & Powder]

Those are GREAT pistols !

I have some experience with the Beretta 92, including an Italian made 92SB which is almost the same pistol as the OP's except for the passive firing pin block and the location of the mag release. It was an awesome pistol ! It shot point of aim with any decent factory 115 or 125 grain bullet. I don't know why the OP's is shooting high but I would play with it before making any serious modifications.

Congrats on such a great find !

[fatelk]

The rest of the pistol is as nice as you see in those photos, except the grips. Internally it looks new.

I know it's not a proper fix, but I'm tempted to try to very carefully and precisely epoxy a perfectly fitted shim onto the top of the front sight. If it was a gun I was going to carry or something I'd spend money to do it right, but I'm just not too worried about it with this gun. I like it as is and don't care to mess with it too much.

What do you guys think; would a shim epoxied to the sight be likely to stay on very long? I think I'll try it. If it falls off, no harm done.

[Livin_cincy]

Here's a question for you guys:

I shot this gun at the range. It makes nice little groups, but shoots way high. I didn't measure, but something like 8" to 10" at 25 yards. The front sight is a machined part of the slide, and the rear sight is pretty low already. Any ideas as to what can be done with it?

Try putting some paint on the front sight so you can focus better. The black front sight can disappear on a black bulls eye.

Shooting that high can mean you need a lighter bullet or faster bullet.

[Omega]

Does it take the same grips as the M9?

[Petrol & Powder]

Before you start playing with the sights, I would try some different loads.
All of the Beretta 92 series pistols that I've shot were pretty close to point of aim = point of impact.

[merlin101]

[QUOTE=fatelk;4404010
What do you guys think; would a shim epoxied to the sight be likely to stay on very long? I think I'll try it. If it falls off, no harm done.[/QUOTE]
25 or 30 years ago I bought Thompson Hawken that had a few inches cut off the muzzle, I ground the dovetail off of another sight and epoxied it on. It's been to the range and out in the field in rain and snow and it's still on there! Probably used JB Weld.

[Combat Diver]

Does it take the same grips as the M9?


No, grips are different do to the mag release located on the bottom left grip panel. Don't know if M9 grips can be modified by drilling a mag release hole but you would still have a slight recurve where the mag release is behind the trigger guard.


CD

[lotech]

I bought a 92 about thirty years ago. Great cast bullet shooter; probably shoots cast bullets more accurately than jacketed, but with my gun it took a heavy bullet (about 145-150 grains) to shoot to point of aim at 25 yards. Jacketed bullets in the 115- 125-grain range all shot about six inches low. The Beretta will feed anything (even cast SWC .38 Special bullets) reliably. The Beretta is a huge gun for the cartridge, the grip is very large, and balance falls for short of a Sig Sauer P226, a pistol I bought about the same time as the Beretta. The Sig is probably a little more accurate. For the price, however, the Berettas are probably a very good buy.

[asmith80]

Lok grips offer any of their Beretta grips with cuts for the 92s. They put out a really nice grip, I like mine

[bruce drake]

tweak the load before you tweak the slide.

[Petrol & Powder]

tweak the load before you tweak the slide.

/\ My thoughts exactly

[Omega]

No, grips are different do to the mag release located on the bottom left grip panel. Don't know if M9 grips can be modified by drilling a mag release hole but you would still have a slight recurve where the mag release is behind the trigger guard.


CDThese are for the Beretta 92, but they also fit the M9, so is this a much different setup?
223293

[fatelk]

Here are the grips on the 92s. When I mentioned the grips being imperfect, I didn't mean to imply that I wanted new ones. The right grip has some scuffing but it really doesn't bother me at all. I like it as it is.

223309223310


I'll tinker with it a bit more at the range, but to be honest I don't care to get drastic with a different load for it. I have a good load that I like for my other 9mm pistols, and other than shooting way high it seems to make consistent little groups in this gun too. In my other guns my favorite load shoots point of aim just like factory ammo.

I'll try some different loads and other things before I decide what to do but I'd sure be surprised if I find a different ammo that shoots enough lower to make a difference. At this point I can't see anything mechanical causing it to shoot so high; I wonder if the barrel was bored off center or something? If there's nothing mechanically wrong, and I'm disinclined to switch to non-standard ammo for this gun, then I think carefully adding a little height to the front sight seems like a logical thing to do, especially if it's not a permanent alteration.

[Mike Kerr]

I personally think you should experiment with adding some sort of JB weld type material to the front site and filing or sanding a "TWEAK " or two to your site as necessary, If needed at all. I agree that for a $199 firearm it is not logical to adjust all your ammo to fit it while ignoring the ammo for other firearms of that caliber in your safe. I am aware others have disagreed but I have had many firearms of one type or another that required minor tweaks to a small part ( that you are not going to be showing off) to achieve desired results. BTW some times it requires a couple of tries to get the JB weld type material to glump on and stay where you put it before filing off the excess. Good luck.

[fatelk]

If I tinker around, try some different loads, and get to the point where I decide to build up the front sight, I'll fabricate a very small piece of steel or aluminum that I can epoxy directly onto the top of the sight. The trick will be getting it to fit precisely and not be noticeable. I suspect that might be the direction I'm headed but I want to exhaust other options first.

[Petrol & Powder]

fatelk, my experience with Beretta 92 series pistols has been very positive and I think you'll find a load that will shoot point of aim.

Another possibility for raising the profile of the front sight is to find a tiny Allen head cap screw with head diameter that is the same width as the sight blade. Drill & tap a hole on top of the sight blade and insert the cap screw in that threaded hole. As seen from the shooters point of view, the front blade will simply appear to be taller. The head of the screw can be dressed down until it presents the required height.

[fatelk]

Well, I went out this evening and shot several different loads, including some factory HPs and some old Canadian surplus rounds. They all shot just as high or higher than my reloads. My loads were actually about 6" high at 25 yards. My loads actually shot the best too, though it wasn't an exhaustive test and I wasn't really trying for my very best accuracy. The groups I shot with my favorite load were around 2.5" at 25 yards. I figure that's not bad for this old gun. I really can't do much better with anything.

I took along some electrical tape, and carefully trimmed tiny pieces that I built up on the top of the front sight, piece by piece until it was shooting where I wanted it to. This pile of tape measures .050" thick. I think I'll make a tiny little piece the size of the top of the front sight, .050" thick, and epoxy it onto the sight, see how that does.

The drill and tap idea is a good one too. If the epoxy doesn't hold I might look at that instead.

[9.3X62AL]

The last 5 years of my career, I used a Beretta 96 as my uniform duty sidearm. I liked the pistol, and REALLY liked its caliber--40 S&W. 40 caliber pistols tend to collect in my safe, so the Beretta 96 went down the road not long after I retired. If the design has a flaw, it is that the pistol is rather large for a service 9mm or 40 S&W. It is easily the size and weight of a 1911A1 45 ACP, 5" barrel and all. Most 9mms and 40s tend to be more "Commander-sized", with 4"-4.5" barrels. The pistol never failed in any manner, and I put at least 6,000 rounds through it during its service cycle.

[lotech]

Before trying to raise point of impact by altering the sights, you might consider trying a heavier bullet. I used to shoot bullets in the 120 -125 grain range. They all shot low. When I went to the Lyman #358212 round nose .38 Special bullet, just under 150 grains, not only did the Beretta shoot to point of aim, accuracy improved as well. It's the only bullet I use now in any 9mm pistol.

[fatelk]

The problem here is that everything shoots high, not low. Everything I tried yesterday shot even higher.

To be honest, I really don't want to change ammo if I don't have to. The current load I have, 125gr, works very well in my other guns and shows good promise in this one. Whatever the problem is with this gun, I think raising the front sight a sliver should fix it up just where I want it.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've never been a fan of heavy for caliber bullets and think the 115-125 grain bullets are where the 9mm Luger needs to be.

[tazman]

With heavy boolits the 9mm is just a high capacity 38special. It has it’s best performance with the standard weights as P&P mentioned.
Many people shoot the heavier boolit for a perceived drop in recoil. I am not certain how well this works.
Heavier boolits sometimes give better accuracy due to more bearing surface. A lot depends on boolit fit and hardness.

[fatelk]

I finally got it done. I fabricated a tiny piece of steel precisely the right size, and glued it to the top of the front sight, using some "structural adhesive" that's supposed to be better than epoxy for things like this.

My first 5 shot group at 25 yards measures 1.75", and was just a couple inches left of center. I drifted the rear sight slightly and put 8 out of ten in about 2.5" dead center. I did have a couple fliers that took the whole group out to nearly 4", don't know if that was me or the gun. About the very best I can do on a good day is around 2"@25 yards, with a handgun from a bench.

I'm pretty happy with it. It seems to be a great shooter for what it is.

Another thing I was surprised about is the little Rough Rider .22lr I bought. I sighted it in too (filing and bending the front sight). I shot two cylinders at 25 yards, and 9 out of 12 inside about 2". That seems great for a cheap little $130 revolver.

223661

[bruce drake]

Glad you found an answer to your problem!
I've considered getting one of those Beretta 92S models for a while and probably get one or a American police trade-in 92FS one day. Although to be honest, I loved my Taurus 99AF model which was the same as the original 92 design but with adjustable sights and a frame safety which is appropriate since Beretta sold Taurus the original 92 series machinery when they converted to a slide mounted safety system in the 92S.

[fatelk]

Thanks Bruce. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. I shot it again today, was busting clays on the berm out at 35 yards.

I had a chance to buy a Taurus a few years back, at a really good price. I turned it down because I wasn't sure about the Taurus reputation. I wished later that I had bought it.

[Petrol & Powder]

The Beretta 92 series pistols are old school works of art.

Take a moment to really examine one and you'll appreciate the engineering that went into it.
The pistol is the product of careful evolution. The roots of that pistol go way back. The pistol itself evolved from the Beretta model 1951 but some elements such as the open top slide go even farther back. Over the years that single stack, single action evolved into an aluminum framed double stack, double action pistol.

The design is old school with a LOT of machining. Even the small parts are forged and machined.
There's a lot of quality in those pistols.

[fatelk]

Well, I took it out again today and suddenly wondered why it was shooting so high. My little addition to the front sight was gone, popped off and went flying somewhere I guess. My industrial adhesive wasn't as tough as they claim, or maybe I just didn't do it right.

Oh well, it's Kentucky windage (or should I say elevation) for me for now. It's still a great gun and a bargain, but I'm just tired of messing with it. It'll go back in the safe until I feel like fooling with it again in the future.