Need a little help-just starting with casting

[Paul Tummers]

Hi,
I am completely new to bullet casting.
I have a Lee production pot- bought it 15 years or so agoo to melt the lead for my bass-jigs castings-,a 100 Kilo of wheel-balancing weights, a double cavity Saeco 315 mould, and a Lyman 450 lube-sizer with the RCBS .308 sizer die fitted already. The top punch I already ordered.
This mould casts bullets which do need gas-checks, and I'll have to find a source for those of course.
I intend to shoot those bullets in my .308W, want as little as possible trouble with leaded barrels and at the other hand as much accuracy as possible from a cast bullet, so what kind of lube(Factoruy made) you recommend?
Do I need an additional tool to crimp those gas-checks on the bullets or can it be done while sizing ?
Since the bullet mould came without grips, I browsed the internet and bought one of the grips offered by Cabine tree Loading products, I think, those indeed will eliminate the differences in force applied to the mould, what do you think?
Thank you in advance,
Paul T.

[Wally]

The Lyman lube-sizer should have a gas check seater accessory. I seat the gas checks by hand--if they attach to the Cast Bullet shank easily you can insert in the lube sizer to seat them, size the bullet, & lube it--if not, you use the gas check seater accessory and then use the lube-sizer normally.

I shoot .30 Calibers in my 700 Remington .30-06--using a 180 grain cast bullet with a gas check I use 16.5 of Unique and get 1,650 FPS--very accurate. For the .308 you have to use a smaller powder charge...

[dromia]

Welcome aboard Paul :drinks:

You really need to slug your bore to find out the best boolit size.

A 308 sizer sounds a tad under, I'd be looking at .310" or .311".

Only by slugging or taking a cast of your barrel will you know.

For lube I'd check out Lar45's LsStuff at the link at the bottom of the page, great lube, great price and he's one of us.

Never tried Gussy's handles but I do use his hardness tester and its an excellent product, I'm sure that they will be fine and again he's one of us. :-D

[Paul Tummers]

I bought the Lyman sizer for little money in used but very dirty condition, took me 2 days to clean it, there was no tool for the gas-check crimping with it.I will check or this tool is available over here.
The rifle I intend to use with the cast bullets is a Sauer 202 Forest with a semi-match barrel and Sauer is known for being near the minimum size for bores and chambers.
I will give it a try with the .308 sizer die what I have, if this is not going to work, I'll take your advise and buy another one which is larger.
How are these rounds loaded?
I think, there must be worked with a reduced powder load, Fast powder, slow powder?-What about the space left in the case with those reduced loads?
Questions, questions, questions!!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, When one gets started in anything there are always lots of questions and much to learn, so ask away. Also plan on reading as much as you can on the subject where ever you can find info. Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, Lee's reloading manual, The Art of Bullet Casting (Wolfe Publications), NRA's Handloading Books, are but a few to start with. Safety is always a prime consideration. There are several theories on what size cast bullets should be in relation to bore size, their shapes, how gas checks should be put on, what powders and primers to use, and many other factors in loading every caliber. Get ready to experiment a lot; it takes patience and perseverance. The groups on your targets will show the results of your efforts; failures and successes are part of the game just like in every other venture. Go 4 it and Good shooting. LLS

[goon]

How are these rounds loaded?
I think, there must be worked with a reduced powder load, Fast powder, slow powder?-What about the space left in the case with those reduced loads?
Questions, questions, questions!!


Many reloading manuals have information for cast bullets.
I've never loaded them in a rifle but I'd still think that would be the best place for you to start.

[dromia]

Joe Brennans compilation of Cast Boolit practice has much of what you seek, much of it provided by members of this forum.

Best of all you can read and download it for free.:-D

This post contains links and details:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26498

[Paul Tummers]

I have the book Joe Brennan wrote, very interesting stuff to read, will buy the Lyman book too-I like reading and books!
First problem I already have: Gas-checks in .308!!And I thought getting wheel-balancing lead would be the main problem; Only truck-wheels are still balanced with lead-other wheels with zinc.
No gas-checks available around here!In Germany there is somebody selling them at a price nobody wants to pay: More in Euro's than in the US in Dollar!!
I'll have to import those or make them myself, have seen a device which makes these from soda-cans.

[dromia]

Are you in Deutschland?

I'm in the UK so I'll send you puckle 'O gator checks in .30 cal over to get you going. PM me your address.

Keep your eye open for Blammers Gator GBs, although he'sjust done .30" cal, and you could piggy back onto my order, plenty of others this side of the pond do.

Also look at Pat Marlins Gas Check makling dies post, they should be ready soon and I'll be getting one of them, looks like it'll be out in .30"cal first. At least you'll be able to do a comparison with the other tools on offer even if you don't go for Pat's.

I will be as I want a press mounted tool and I don't do ebay so the others are'nt an option for me.

[Bret4207]

Paul- The sizing die will apply the gas checks. Just put the check on the boolit base, make sure it's on firmly and then run it through the sizer. If you use Dromias Gator checks they'll crimp on fine. You can order lube or try making "Felix Lube", just do a search here and you'll find the recipe.

For loading- See if you can find a powder with a burning speed/pressure curve similar to Red Dot or Unique. These are shotgun and pistol powders. With the Red Dot try 11.5-14.0 gr, start off low as that .308 sizer will probably give you an undersize boolit for your barrel. I'd keep my eye out for a .310, .311 or .312 die. With the Unique start around 10.0 to 12.0 gr. Don't push for speed, just try for nice round groups.

Read, read, read here. You'll find most of what you need among the older posts, at the sites linked and you can always ask if you get stuck.

BTW- Welcome aboard and have fun!

[Paul Tummers]

I got the mould handles and the automatic lube feeder for my Lyman 450 today, screwed the mould onto the handles, adjusted them to a very light toggling over upon closing and started to cast some bullets from pure wheel-balancing alloy, preheated the mould for an half hour on top of the Lee pot
After about 25 bullets there still is no bullet near perfect, they all look somewhat wrinkled and are under size.
What do I do wrong?
Dromia kindly has sent me some gas-checks and lube, but I really do not want to waist those on this kind of bullets!
Kind Regards,
Paul T.

[EMC45]

Clean out the cavities with Brake cleaner or acetone and then lightly smoke them. See if you get better results then.

[Paul Tummers]

I already cleaned the cavities with acetone, stolen from my wife,and worked the cavities with a soft pencil.
I will clean again with the same stuff and smoke the mould- I have a Zippo lying around somewere, thank you!
Kind Regards,
Paul T.

[EMC45]

That Zippo may put oily deposits on the surface of the mold. I would use a wooden match or a butane lighter.

[Jon K]

Paul,

Ditto the propane lighter, or wood match.
Clean again(Acetone or Brake Parts Cleaner), and smoke the mould.
Pre-heat on a hot plate if you got one. You can also crank the heat up on the lead pot, pour to fill and pour on the bottom of the mould to warm up. Then pour with high heat, until you start dropping good boolits, then turn heat down accordingly.

Saeco #316 is one of my favorite moulds. You'll be happy with it.

Welcome &
Have Fun Shooting,

Jon

[Paul Tummers]

Paul,

Ditto the propane lighter, or wood match.
Clean again(Acetone or Brake Parts Cleaner), and smoke the mould.
Pre-heat on a hot plate if you got one. You can also crank the heat up on the lead pot, pour to fill and pour on the bottom of the mould to warm up. Then pour with high heat, until you start dropping good boolits, then turn heat down accordingly.

Saeco #316 is one of my favorite moulds. You'll be happy with it.

Welcome &
Have Fun Shooting,

Jon
I prepared the mould for casting again, just as suggested, made also sure, the vent canals are clean-No air out, no lead in.
There still is the matter of the bullets being undersized;
To find out or the sizer press worked allright with the automatic lube feed installed I took some of the bullets which I did cast and sized them; only the band just above the gas-check was sized down, the other bands were not even touched by the sizer.
What can I eventually add to the wheel weight alloy to cure this?
The measured cavities in my mould are .315.
Btw; I have the Saeco #315 mould, had to turn a top punch myself.
Regards,
Paul T.

[Jon K]

Paul,

Is the mould dropping nicer boolits now?

Should work OK, with the one band & GC @desired size. Try casting @825*+, it will drop out a little larger, or you can add some linotype.


Jon

[Paul Tummers]

Paul,

Is the mould dropping nicer boolits now?

Should work OK, with the one band & GC @desired size. Try casting @825*+, it will drop out a little larger, or you can add some linotype.


Jon
Hi Jon,
The bullets are perfect from the shape now, no wrinkles anymore, Thank you!!
I already have set the thermostate at max, but do not have a thermometer to check, but will try to get some lynotype to add, will have to find a place were they use it.
Regards,
Paul T.

[Jon K]

Paul,

Experiment, don't use to much, unless you want hard boolits. The more you use the cost rises. I use 12% Lino/WW hardness = 8-9bhn.
Shop around for Linotype, sometimes you may find some free. sometimes there's some good deals online auctions.


Jon

[copdills]

Just wanted to welcome you to the forum Paul , you will have many questions and will find many answers here , its a great forum with alot of fine helping people , good to have you here:castmine:

[Paul Tummers]

Paul,

Experiment, don't use to much, unless you want hard boolits. The more you use the cost rises. I use 12% Lino/WW hardness = 8-9bhn.
Shop around for Linotype, sometimes you may find some free. sometimes there's some good deals online auctions.


Jon

I really want to have hard boolits, would like to shoot them with a 600m/sec. to avoid to much difference in impact to the regular bullets I use for hunting with my rifle, do not want to change the scope settings, but impact should preferably be on an A4 sheet for both loads at 100 meters.

[Paul Tummers]

Just wanted to welcome you to the forum Paul , you will have many questions and will find many answers here , its a great forum with alot of fine helping people , good to have you here:castmine:

Thank you!!
I already are getting the feeling of being at home!

Paul.

[Paul Tummers]

I got a little confused now;I have the wheel-weight alloy wich shrinks too much when cooling down.
If I add some linotype will this not cause even more shrinking?

Regards,
Paul

[dromia]

Paul there comes a time mate when the therory needs to meet up with the practice, cast yourself up some boolits with say a 60/40 linotype/wheel weight alloy for starters.

Measure them, lube and size them if necessary, load them and shoot them.

You'll then have lots of information pertinent to your boolit, load and rifle. Then you'll have a real starting point. :D

[Jon K]

Paul,

Play with the temp,run about 825*.
Shrinkage is at it's max with lead and lead/tin mix. WW and other antimonial alloys like linotype harden and reduce shrinkage.
To shoot it @600m/sec(1980 fps) it doesn't need to be real hard, I cast the previous mentioned 12% linotype mix/gas check 30 cal with speeds 2000 fps no problems.

Jon

[Paul Tummers]

Are you in Deutschland?

I'm in the UK so I'll send you puckle 'O gator checks in .30 cal over to get you going. PM me your address.

Keep your eye open for Blammers Gator GBs, although he'sjust done .30" cal, and you could piggy back onto my order, plenty of others this side of the pond do.

Also look at Pat Marlins Gas Check makling dies post, they should be ready soon and I'll be getting one of them, looks like it'll be out in .30"cal first. At least you'll be able to do a comparison with the other tools on offer even if you don't go for Pat's.

I will be as I want a press mounted tool and I don't do ebay so the others are'nt an option for me.

Hi Dromia,
Can I still piggy-back for 1000 gas-checks in .30 cal and some of the red lube, let's say 10 sticks?
Kind Regards,
Paul.

[Paul Tummers]

I am still running my butt off to get some linotype!
Over here, nobody uses the stuff anymore, they all have gone the digital way, Sh*t!!
Regards,
Paul.

[runfiverun]

paul water-drop your 2%tin and 3-4% antimony ww's you will get near 18 bhn and they will shoot just fine

[Paul Tummers]

paul water-drop your 2%tin and 3-4% antimony ww's you will get near 18 bhn and they will shoot just fine

I do not think, I,ll get a hardness problem, but merely are looking for ways to reduce the shrinking.
The mold is milled .315, which should be adequate to get a bullet with a diameter of near .312 or so, instead of the .309 I get now, and this only measured at the band just above the gas-check, the others are .307.
I finally got the adress of a book-printer who still has some linotype stocked which is useless to him now because he also has choosen for the modern way of printing.
I do not exactly know yet, how much he has laying around, but if it is affordable, I'll buy it, even when we speak about 1000 kg, and since the stuff is becoming a scarce item over here, I always can sell without losing money.
When selling it to an old-metal depot, he will not get much for it because they are going to tell him, it is an alloy which needs to be purified from the antimony, tin and the rest of the stuff which is in there.
I am still looking for a mixture/threatment I can use my wheel-weights in what does not shrink that much.
Kind regards,
Paul T.

[Shotgun Luckey]

Find out what the scrap yards are paying for linotype and use that as a base to offer the printer.

good luck and Welcome!!!

[Paul Tummers]

Find out what the scrap yards are paying for linotype and use that as a base to offer the printer.

good luck and Welcome!!!

I still do not have found any linotype !! All printers I called do not use it anymore, did get rid of it years agoo.
I do not give up- there must be a place were some of this stuff is gathering dust!!
Regards,
Paul.

[TAWILDCATT]

dont size the bullets.I use Lee tumble lube but it might be hard to get over there.
I think lee has outlets in europe.check the lee site.I load 13 gr red dot in 30/06 with 170 gr lyman 311291 and it goes 1680fs in my 1914 springfield.:coffeecom:coffee:[smilie=1:
I get one inch groups at 100 yds. with WW,you may get faster with the 308 but 1600fs is about the best for accuracy in lead.I use lead in my 30/30 same bullet for hunting.

[badgeredd]

I still do not have found any linotype !! All printers I called do not use it anymore, did get rid of it years agoo.
I do not give up- there must be a place were some of this stuff is gathering dust!!
Regards,
Paul.

Paul,

Welcome aboard.

I don't like mentioning this, but since you're having trouble finding lino in you part of the world I will. I often see linotype for sale on ebay. It IS a Source and maybe you can connect with someone here that can help you out in the future. If you use a 12% mix like suggested above, you'd only need 12 pounds to make 100 pound of the mix...which would yield a fair number of boolits unless you're shooting really heavy ones.

Just a thought.

Edd

[Paul Tummers]

I am a kind of stubborn sometimes, ik worked against me often but this time it has paid out;
I can get 60 pounds of the stuff, do not even have to drive more than 20 kilometers to collect it at a price of $30.
I will drive down there next week and start mixing from 10% upward to find out what works the best in my rifle.
Thank you for encouraging me!
Regards,
Paul T.

[dromia]

Good on you Paul your perseverance has paid off. :-D

Keep us posted on your progress.

[TAWILDCATT]

try som pure lead and cast a good bullet.that should give you the size of the mold.it seems to cast small.should not shrink to 308.

[Cherokee]

Welcome Paul and you are doing well. You got a good deal on the linotype !!

[Paul Tummers]

I got the linotype; I want to do a lot more business with this gentleman; it were not 60 pounds but 60 kilo for $40!
I will certainly keep in touch with him and buy every ounce he has in future, and if I have enough, I will melt it into small bars for storage.
Regards,
Paul.

[LeadPoor]

Hello all, I'm new here, been lurking some and reading all I can since I have not casted any boolits since 1992

That brings me to this post, I have had about 20 pounds of linotype since then and have heard that it ages??

I don't mean to hijack but it seems appropriate since Paul is thinking of storing some

Thanks
-Mike

[Paul Tummers]

Hello all, I'm new here, been lurking some and reading all I can since I have not casted any boolits since 1992

That brings me to this post, I have had about 20 pounds of linotype since then and have heard that it ages??

I don't mean to hijack but it seems appropriate since Paul is thinking of storing some

Thanks
-Mike

I do not know wether it ages or not;
I want to melt it into ingots after fluxing and making sure the tin and antimonium are mixed well.
I will try to keep temperature for melting as low as possible.
I first will have to sort things out, because I noticed,there is also some monotype in the buckets which is a different alloy when I am not for mistaken.
Regards,
Paul.