Bad primers

[fatelk]

I have a bunch of old Federal 155 LPM primers that I'm going to throw away, once I remove them from all the ammo I have to pull apart.

The first trouble I had with them was a while back when I was working up a full power 44 mag load in a rifle. I was seeing some blow out. I was not quite at maximum and there were no other pressure signs. I switched to another primers and worked up the load just fine. I figured I'd save the rest of those 155 primers for lower pressure loads.

I recently loaded up a bunch of mid-range 44 mags (429421 w/11gr Unique). I had tried some with no trouble, them I went ahead and loaded up a couple hundred rounds. Today I had one lock up the revolver (S&W 29-8). I had quite some trouble getting it free. A primer had popped and the firing pin looks like it's been hit with a torch, with part of the tip missing.

On another note: where's the best place to buy a replacement firing pin? I see some "tactical" stainless steel aftermarket firing pins on ebay. I tend to avoid anything advertised as "tactical", but I wonder if that would be worth while.

222188

[Mr_Sheesh]

For a firing pin I'd see if S&W has any, then check Brownell's, etc. next. Don't know what to recommend but S&W would know who would have that part I'd think :)

[JimB..]

I’m curious, how old and do you know what the storage condiction’s were?

[fatelk]

I don't even remember where I got the primers. I've had them a long time but they look fine.

It looks like I can get a new firing pin from Brownells for $6. It looks pretty simple; I could even make one if I wanted. I'd just never seen something torched quit like that before. I wonder if it's because it was an MIM part? Replacing the firing pin is the easy part compared to pulling down all this ammo.

I imagine I could probably use the primers in really low pressure loads like .45acp light loads, but I think I'll just bury them in a hole instead, just not worth risking damage to another gun.


222213

[lefty o]

that can happen if you pierce a primer, that is one very hot flame.

[Dale53]

I've had excellent results with the Apex firing pins.

FWIW
Dale53

[Outpost75]

Have you contacted Federal, given them the lot number and explained the problem?

How many of these primers do you have?

[dubber123]

I've pierced my fair share of primers, and I'm betting the damage done to your pin took quite a few to get tot that level. Once you get those sharp edges on a pin, it's much easier to pierce one.

[fatelk]

I only have maybe a box and a half left, besides the couple hundred rounds I'm in the process of pulling down. It hardly seems worth it.


I've pierced my fair share of primers, and I'm betting the damage done to your pin took quite a few to get tot that level. Once you get those sharp edges on a pin, it's much easier to pierce one.

I'm actually certain that it was one round that did it, without a doubt. I haven't had this gun very long and I went over it closely when I bought it. It was pristine. I've shot maybe a hundred rounds through it myself and this was the first pierced primer. I was really surprised that one primer would blowtorch it the way it did.

[fatelk]

Here are the last six round fired. The bottom middle one pierced, and the bottom right was the last one fired. The damaged firing pin stuck in it and locked the gun up solid. As you ca see, the indentation in the previous four is perfect, no damage.


222248

[fatelk]

I did a little research and found this thread from ten years ago: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?36719-Pierced-Primers

Apparently Federal had some bad primers some time back. It appears pretty clear that these are some of them.

[Tom Trevor]

Those small box Federal primers go WAYYYYY back. Been in the large boxes for last thirty years.

[fatelk]

This project is just bad luck all the way around.

222272

[TCLouis]

I once used a RCBS(?) tool like that to disassemble 1200 44 Mags and about 800 38s once one of one of the 44mags loaded that day took the top strap and top half of the cylinder off.

Took a lot longer to disassemble than to load.

That was one accurate Super Blackhawk too.

I will not tell what happened,but I am sure it was OPERATOR ERROR

[fatelk]

Those small box Federal primers go WAYYYYY back. Been in the large boxes for last thirty years.

Wow, they’re older than I thought. I probably found them at a show a few years back, for cheap. There’s a prime example of false economy. :)

[GONRA]

GONRA suggests NEVER buying Primers, Powder or any quantity of Shootin' Ammo from casual sources - gun shows, etc.
Stick to Retail High Turnover sources to avoid crummy (hot, humid) storage history.

Best bet (if you can) get buddies together and purchase large quantities
from Big Mail Order Outfits. If that doesn't verk for your area,
tell LGS to let you know when they get in Fresh Stock.

Yer NOT going after "cheep stuff" here - THAT'S DANGEROUS!
Just want ammo/reloads to Function Safely and
NOT screw up an Expensive Firearm - OR YOU!

[30calflash]

Have you contacted Federal, given them the lot number and explained the problem?

How many of these primers do you have?

This. Federal has had some bad primers in the past. Let them know, will most likely have you return them and may pay for the parts to repair your firearm.

Years ago there were some bad 210M's, they made good on the product and repairs.

[fatelk]

Considering that the primers were decades old, I only had a few hundred, and the fix cost me exactly $6, I figure I'll let this one slide. I already have the replacement firing pin installed, looks like it should be fine.

Gonra, I appreciate the sage advice and generally agree with it, except that in this case it appears the primers were defective from manufacture and would likely have had the same problem no matter where I bought them.

I've bought many thousands of old and very old primers at gun shows over the years, and never had trouble otherwise. And, though I would generally recommend against it, I've used a fair amount of older powder purchased cheap at gun shows and such (using requisite caution from experience). Unless you really know powders, don't do it, or maybe just don't at all. As to cheap gun show reloads? Yeah, just don't. :)

[Mal Paso]

Did you get the S&W MIM firing pin?

I had a MIM firing pin fail like that (never traced it to a primer) but I smoothed it with a file (it hung the cylinder like yours) and kept shooting until the new ones came. I ordered a MIM and a machined one. I posted here and someone suggested the MIM was less likely to break as it is more ductal so when the pins came the MIM went in the gun, the machined into the grip as backup.

[fatelk]

Yes, I did. I bought two of them actually, to have a spare. They were $6 each at Brownell's. I had them in my cart but didn't check out, then the next day got an email from Brownell's with a code for free shipping.

It's been suggested that the firing pins are not actually an MIM part, that they're just called that because they're made for the guns with MIM parts. The S&W packaging they came in is marked "MIM" though, so I really don't know.

When the gun locked up, it really locked up. Had I been out in the boonies without tools, I'd have been in trouble. I tried everything short of banging on the cylinder with a hammer. I ended up drilling an old cleaning rod section for a decapping pin to fit in the end, sliding it down the barrel to get the pin into the flash hole in the case, then tapping it with a hammer to free the firing pin. I really don't know how else I'd have gotten it out.

[Mal Paso]

Mine hung up but not nearly as much as yours. It may have been a pierced primer, don't know, but it was interesting to read your story. You could see the MIM structure in the fracture at the tip of my firing pin. It looked like cast iron. In spite of all the criticism of MIM I have not had a MIM part fail and render the gun useless. I have had that happen with stamped steel parts. In your case the failure was a primer so the cause was not a MIM part.

I have a 629-6 which I shoot more than any other gun.

Thanks!