Ruger #1 Barrel Issues

[Toolmaker TN]

Was wondering if anyone has run into the same issue I'm having. I've got a #1 in 45-70. Have had the rifle for years, and have never shot anything but cast in it. The only issue I have is the barrel is oversize, have never been able to get the accuracy I think it should have. The bore slugs out at .451 bore and .460-.4605 in the grooves. Chamber is tight as well, and no lead to speak of, can barely get a .460 bullet to chamber.
Is there anyone else that's run into this? Was thinking maybe re-barreling, case neck turning possibly. Never going to sell it, so don't care about collector value. Have let too many #1's get away from me....
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[rockrat]

I have one with about the same dimensions on the barrel, but the chamber is large enough to chamber a .461"boolit. Maybe you can run a 45-70 reamer in the chamber to open it up a bit.

[Nobade]

Paper patched bullets and black powder. Works a treat.

[Toolmaker TN]

I have one with about the same dimensions on the barrel, but the chamber is large enough to chamber a .461"boolit. Maybe you can run a 45-70 reamer in the chamber to open it up a bit.

Yes, that might work. Would be a permanent solution as well. Have another 45-70 that's sort of in the same boat, only barrel's not as big. That one's a Gibbs Lee-Enfield. Wouldn't hurt to do it to that one as well.

[Toolmaker TN]

Paper patched bullets and black powder. Works a treat.

Thank you, hadn't thought of that. Was considering PP with smokeless loads, but chamber dims. wouldn't let that work. Might have to try that at some point, maybe a duplex load.

[samari46]

Mine slugs out at .459 and my Lyman mold only goes to .459, its the 480 grain 45 cal gc bullet. Soon's as I get some $$ Tom at Accurate Molds will be getting a phone call. Have two 45 cal rifle molds from RCBS that only go to .457, two others from Lyman same as well. Even sent back a 311284 to Lyman to have the nose section recut and still came back too small. Even My 311291 & 31141 noses are too small. .298. Any wonder that the custom mold makers
are so highly reccomended? I have three S&W's in 44 special guess who's gonna get my business after I measure out the cylinder throats with pin guages?. About the only Lyman mold I have that made the factory listed dimensions was the 314299 .304 & .314. Ran out and bought a second one cast bullets to verify dimensions and salted away against the day the older of the two went south. Still oiled and wrapped in a vapor barrier paper. By the way still waiting for the older mold going south. 30+ years hasn't happened yet. Frank

[Good Cheer]

You can also shoot soft lead paper patched with smokeless.
My brother's load is 500 grains at about 1800FPS.
The higher pressures of smokeless will make lead expand to fill the grooves, accurately if you find the load. Black is easier to make work and obviously so in older firearms. In the late 80's had a roller made in 1889 that had a way oversized groove diameter and the boolits worked just swell (bad pun intended :oops:).

[EDG]

There are possibly a couple of ways to nibble around the edges of your problem to gain a bit of knowledge.
1. Use WW brass since it is thinner than most other brands. You might be able to use a bullet that is .001 or .002 larger.
2. Turn the "necks" of a box of brass thinner to permit a larger bullet to be seated without interference at the chamber neck.

I had the same problem with a SAAMI chamber in a .38-55 H&R Target rifle so I turned the necks of WW brass. In time Starline released .007 wall .38-55 brass which solved the problem without a reamer. Otherwise turned brass was in my future.


Was wondering if anyone has run into the same issue I'm having. I've got a #1 in 45-70. Have had the rifle for years, and have never shot anything but cast in it. The only issue I have is the barrel is oversize, have never been able to get the accuracy I think it should have. The bore slugs out at .451 bore and .460-.4605 in the grooves. Chamber is tight as well, and no lead to speak of, can barely get a .460 bullet to chamber.
Is there anyone else that's run into this? Was thinking maybe re-barreling, case neck turning possibly. Never going to sell it, so don't care about collector value. Have let too many #1's get away from me....
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Toolmaker TN]

Mine slugs out at .459 and my Lyman mold only goes to .459, its the 480 grain 45 cal gc bullet. Soon's as I get some $$ Tom at Accurate Molds will be getting a phone call. Have two 45 cal rifle molds from RCBS that only go to .457, two others from Lyman same as well. Even sent back a 311284 to Lyman to have the nose section recut and still came back too small. Even My 311291 & 31141 noses are too small. .298. Any wonder that the custom mold makers
are so highly reccomended? I have three S&W's in 44 special guess who's gonna get my business after I measure out the cylinder throats with pin guages?. About the only Lyman mold I have that made the factory listed dimensions was the 314299 .304 & .314. Ran out and bought a second one cast bullets to verify dimensions and salted away against the day the older of the two went south. Still oiled and wrapped in a vapor barrier paper. By the way still waiting for the older mold going south. 30+ years hasn't happened yet. Frank

At least I'm not the only one dealing with an oversize bore. It's a shame, but I've noticed that Lyman molds are getting smaller and smaller lately. Not sure why that would be, maybe the cherries have been reground too many times, and they're not making new ones? And RCBS isn't much better either. Have had to lap out too many molds that I spent good money on. Have looked at the NOE molds, seem to be very nice. Might have to invest in a couple of those. Or just get my act together and start making the 5 mold projects I've got on the roundtuit list. Have the mold blocks cut and fitted for RCBS handles, have the sprue plates made, just need to heat treat and grind them. Even have a couple of cherries somewhere in process. Too many projects, too little time.....

[Toolmaker TN]

You can also shoot soft lead paper patched with smokeless.
My brother's load is 500 grains at about 1800FPS.
The higher pressures of smokeless will make lead expand to fill the grooves, accurately if you find the load. Black is easier to make work and obviously so in older firearms. In the late 80's had a roller made in 1889 that had a way oversized groove diameter and the boolits worked just swell (bad pun intended :oops:).

That's another route I might try. I've got a Lee 500gr mold that casts undersize (don't they all, the 45 cal molds anyway) that I've been looking at trying paper patching with.

[Toolmaker TN]

There are possibly a couple of ways to nibble around the edges of your problem to gain a bit of knowledge.
1. Use WW brass since it is thinner than most other brands. You might be able to use a bullet that is .001 or .002 larger.
2. Turn the "necks" of a box of brass thinner to permit a larger bullet to be seated without interference at the chamber neck.

I had the same problem with a SAAMI chamber in a .38-55 H&R Target rifle so I turned the necks of WW brass. In time Starline released .007 wall .38-55 brass which solved the problem without a reamer. Otherwise turned brass was in my future.

Yes, have noticed the same thing. WW brass works the best for me in this rifle. I use my RP brass in my Gibbs Lee-Enfield. I also have a bunch of Fed. brass that I've had so long most of the nickel plating has been worn off. I use this in a different 45-70. (I bought this as Federal component brass, which should give you an idea how old it is).

I've been thinking about combining the idea of neck-turning and paper patching with smokeless, should get me big enough to work.

[marlinman93]

At least I'm not the only one dealing with an oversize bore. It's a shame, but I've noticed that Lyman molds are getting smaller and smaller lately. Not sure why that would be, maybe the cherries have been reground too many times, and they're not making new ones? And RCBS isn't much better either. Have had to lap out too many molds that I spent good money on. .....

Since the base band is the one that seals the bore, I've reamed out the base band on several molds to make them seal in the bore better. Opening up just the base band will get you where you need to be, and often avoid chambering issues too.
I have a Ballard in .32-40 that has a .325" groove and that size bullet wont chamber as fixed. But I opened up my Saeco .323" mold to just over .325" base band and it shoots great, and still will chamber as fixed ammo. I tried the same with my Hepburn and it's .327" .32-40 bore, but a .328" base band still wont allow fixed ammo, so I breech seat the bullet instead and get very nice groups.

[Toolmaker TN]

Since the base band is the one that seals the bore, I've reamed out the base band on several molds to make them seal in the bore better. Opening up just the base band will get you where you need to be, and often avoid chambering issues too.
I have a Ballard in .32-40 that has a .325" groove and that size bullet wont chamber as fixed. But I opened up my Saeco .323" mold to just over .325" base band and it shoots great, and still will chamber as fixed ammo. I tried the same with my Hepburn and it's .327" .32-40 bore, but a .328" base band still wont allow fixed ammo, so I breech seat the bullet instead and get very nice groups.

Another great idea that might be worth a try. Would be a little concerned that the o/s band would just be swaged down when seating though. I'm thinking I need to either open up chamber or turn necks on brass, as a .460 dia will just slip fit in a fired case.

[Marlin356]

You could go another way, taking a page from the olden days single shot target shooters (with a modification). I assume a boolit that will fill the grooves will fit in the chamber and engage the leade ? If so, build a breech seater (kinda like a MZ Ldr boolit starter) and seat the boolit. Then figure out how much you need to trim off a FIRED 45-70 case to chamber w/o hitting the boolit. Trim cases to that length, prime, load powder, card wad, enough filler to fill the case and an "over powder" card wad.
Crimp lightly. That way you can make up a bunch of ammo in advance to avoid tieing up the range. If that is no issue, breech seat the boolit, charge the case at the bench, elevate the muzzle to settle the powder at the back, ease her down and shoot.

[Toolmaker TN]

You could go another way, taking a page from the olden days single shot target shooters (with a modification). I assume a boolit that will fill the grooves will fit in the chamber and engage the leade ? If so, build a breech seater (kinda like a MZ Ldr boolit starter) and seat the boolit. Then figure out how much you need to trim off a FIRED 45-70 case to chamber w/o hitting the boolit. Trim cases to that length, prime, load powder, card wad, enough filler to fill the case and an "over powder" card wad.
Crimp lightly. That way you can make up a bunch of ammo in advance to avoid tieing up the range. If that is no issue, breech seat the boolit, charge the case at the bench, elevate the muzzle to settle the powder at the back, ease her down and shoot.

That would work, but my primary use for this rifle is for hunting. Breech seating would work, but would be sort of a PITA when still hunting deer I think. I can see me trying that one when reloading in a tree stand.....
I've got a couple other 45-70's as well, with possibly one or 2 more on the way. My goal is to hopefully find a load that would shoot in all of them. Not really even close to that yet, with the exception of 13.0gr or Red Dot. Ed Harris was certainly right about that one, it is truly "The Load"
I get a real kick out of reading that "you can load up the 45-70 to near 458win levels" in a Ruger #1..... yes you can, but not with this guy behind it.... there were a whole lot of Bison that I'm sure wished they had never met up with a 400-500gr chunk of lead at BP velocities. What more do you really need??

[Marlin356]

Well then, rechamber it to 45-90 with a long leade.

[Nobade]

Well then, rechamber it to 45-90 with a long leade.Isn't that a 458 win mag? "45-90 high pressure belted express".

[Marlin356]

I just took a 458 Tropical bbl off a #1 to change it to somthing I "needed".

[EDG]

A coworker had an original Remington Hepburn in .40-70 Sharps Straight with a 2.5" case. The chamber was made for paper patched ammo.
When used with grease groove bullets his case necks had to be .003 thick like foil. With the thin necks you could not seat a bullet without crushing the foil like necks.
He asked me to open the chamber to permit the use of RWS 9.3X74R brass.

He had a tool maker modify a milling machine boring bar to reach the end of the 2.5" chamber.
I chucked the original barrel in a 4 jaw and dialed it in with one of the long contact Brown & Sharpe Best Test indicators. That indicator was capable of reaching the end of the chamber. After indicating in the chamber neck I checked the bore and the 2 were concentric. He wanted .005 clearance in the chamber neck. He got .004 with the second cut. I polished the chamber with 400 grit wet or dry. The boring bar had only cut the last 1/2" of chamber length. The cut was stopped at the exact end of the original chamber.
The new chamber was not detectable except it allowed the use of RWS2.93X74R brass with a .410 grease groove bullet.
If you have a good lathe it is possible to open the chamber with a boring bar but it is a ticklish operation.
Use of a reamer is much preferred since you can hand ream your chamber to remove a few thousandths without pulling the barrel.

[Toolmaker TN]

A coworker had an original Remington Hepburn in .40-70 Sharps Straight with a 2.5" case. The chamber was made for paper patched ammo.
When used with grease groove bullets his case necks had to be .003 thick like foil. With the thin necks you could not seat a bullet without crushing the foil like necks.
He asked me to open the chamber to permit the use of RWS 9.3X74R brass.

He had a tool maker modify a milling machine boring bar to reach the end of the 2.5" chamber.
I chucked the original barrel in a 4 jaw and dialed it in with one of the long contact Brown & Sharpe Best Test indicators. That indicator was capable of reaching the end of the chamber. After indicating in the chamber neck I checked the bore and the 2 were concentric. He wanted .005 clearance in the chamber neck. He got .004 with the second cut. I polished the chamber with 400 grit wet or dry. The boring bar had only cut the last 1/2" of chamber length. The cut was stopped at the exact end of the original chamber.
The new chamber was not detectable except it allowed the use of RWS2.93X74R brass with a .410 grease groove bullet.
If you have a good lathe it is possible to open the chamber with a boring bar but it is a ticklish operation.
Use of a reamer is much preferred since you can hand ream your chamber to remove a few thousandths without pulling the barrel.

That's certainly an option, although it would be kind of a pain to go to that kind of trouble. I've cut dies in the past on a lathe with a boring bar and it does work, especially when I couldn't find a reamer. Now I would just make and grind a reamer, but couldn't at the time.
In the case of an original Hepburn, then it's certainly worth the trouble, but if it came to that on a #1, I'll prob just pull the barrel and replace it.
However, your post did help me with another project I've been working on as well. I've got a Hepburn action that I need to barrel. One of the calibers I've been considering is 40-70SS, especially since I got a killer deal on a set of RCBS dies and a Lyman 400gr Postell mold. Brass was one of my considerations, have been looking at options. Have never thought of 9.3X74R brass. Thank you very much for that, and the rest of the post.
One of the greatest things about this site is the wealth of experience, and the generosity of those willing to share that experience. The more I learn, the more I realize how much there is to learn.

[EDG]

Toolmaker
You might troll the posts at the ASSRA site for .40-70 SS articles.
When I bored the Hepburn the only possible brass was the 9.3X74R brass. That brass has a thin rim so it was a little sloppy in the Remington.
Today we have Hornady .405 brass when you can find it. It has a fine heavy duty rim. I consider it better than the metric brass. It does require a deeper rim recess than original .40-70 SS brass.
Boring the chamber was not very difficult other than the potential of destroying an unreplaceable original barrel.

[Toolmaker TN]

Toolmaker
You might troll the posts at the ASSRA site for .40-70 SS articles.
When I bored the Hepburn the only possible brass was the 9.3X74R brass. That brass has a thin rim so it was a little sloppy in the Remington.
Today we have Hornady .405 brass when you can find it. It has a fine heavy duty rim. I consider it better than the metric brass. It does require a deeper rim recess than original .40-70 SS brass.
Boring the chamber was not very difficult other than the potential of destroying an unreplaceable original barrel.

Yes, have looked at the 405 brass, but you're right, can be a little hard to find. Since I would be chambering a new barrel, rim wouldn't be an issue one way or another. I've seen where BA has brass made from 30-40 I think. Should be good stuff though.
Thanks for the ASSRA tip too. Was a member in the past, need to be again.