New 92 miroku accuracy

[salvadore]

That says it, my Miroku 92 .357 sucks for accuracy. It has a 'bullseye' rear and a marble fiber optic front allowing a fairly consistent sight picture. I have tried a 358156 with the appropriate amount of 2400 with little luck before switching to a jacketed 158gr and 14.8gr. of 2400. The bullets go in straight, just not close together.

Anyone out there with the miroku having better luck? Give me a hint.

[NSB]

I've had Miroku barreled guns in 357 and the accuracy was outstanding....with jacketed bullets. Not so much with cast or swaged bullets. A few cast loads were "OK" accurate, but not what I'd call true tack drivers. When all else fails, go to WW296/H110 and a Hornady 158gr XTP JHP and see what happens. What kind of groups were you getting? The definition of accurate varies along with expectations. That Marbles fiber optic front sight isn't going to help with good groups. I'll allow that it's easy to see, it just doesn't offer the best sight for shooting good groups. It's an "OK" hunting sight for deer, etc.

[Randy Bohannon]

I have a Win/Miroku 1873 .38/357 20" round barrel, .360" soft cast 16:1,mould from Accurate, O.A.L 1.60" shoots very well with smokeless or 22 grs. of Old Eyensford 2f in annealed Starline brass, very accurate a ton of fun, 1250 fps. I think short fat bullets are going to be the most accurate. I would not trust commercial cast bullets in a rifle barrel because of the hard lube just doesn't work all the way out of the barrel. All of my Winchesters regardless of who or when they were made like fat boolits.
My 1873 is not as strong as the 92 so I have not played with magnum level loads.You can do anything you want in your 92 and .357 magnum.

[T-Bird]

my miroku '73 shoots as well as I can see with the tang sight I have on it. All I shoot is cast- Lee 358-158rf and LY 358429. Don't know how it does with j-words. I have an '80's (I think) miroku mod '53 32-20 that is an absolute tack driver with j-words, but 2" at 50 yds is the best I can get with every cast load I've tried.

[salvadore]

I thought about h110, might give it a try. Not sure what a fat cast is, but my sized diameter I
359+. I'm pretty sure I Don't want to load bp in this rifle. My homemade lube works well in all of my cast bullets. I have some 358429s loaded in .38 cases with 12gr of 2400 I will try.
My groups 4" maybe more I have the sights adjusted to the center of the target as far as I can tell. My 94 32 win. Spec. shoots about an inch for 5 shots with iron sights my 94 marlin 32/20 1" and much less and my cheapy Chiapa .45 into 2" , all with cast. My 32/20 has an old 4x compact. I Don't think it's allme.

[Jeff Michel]

I use 12 grains 2400 and 180 grain WFN in .357 cases. Slow it down and you'll likely see thing tighten up.

[wv109323]

I have a mold very similar to the 358156 and it will not shoot accurately. Regardless of load or firearm that boolit will not group. At best it will do is 8 inches at 50 yards. I don't know why .

[NSB]

I thought about h110, might give it a try. Not sure what a fat cast is, but my sized diameter I
359+. I'm pretty sure I Don't want to load bp in this rifle. My homemade lube works well in all of my cast bullets. I have some 358429s loaded in .38 cases with 12gr of 2400 I will try.
My groups 4" maybe more I have the sights adjusted to the center of the target as far as I can tell. My 94 32 win. Spec. shoots about an inch for 5 shots with iron sights my 94 marlin 32/20 1" and much less and my cheapy Chiapa .45 into 2" , all with cast. My 32/20 has an old 4x compact. I Don't think it's allme.

I don't know if you cast those bullets or not, but something you can check is the diameter of the bullet base. Last year I had a problem with some Hornady swaged bullets that were .355-.356 at the base and they shot very poorly. When shooting properly sized bullets my Miroku shot 2-3" at 100 yards. Not spectacular, but acceptable (five shot groups). Try some 110 with the cast. I've seen other guys try it and got much better results than I thought they would.

[indian joe]

my miroku '73 shoots as well as I can see with the tang sight I have on it. All I shoot is cast- Lee 358-158rf and LY 358429. Don't know how it does with j-words. I have an '80's (I think) miroku mod '53 32-20 that is an absolute tack driver with j-words, but 2" at 50 yds is the best I can get with every cast load I've tried.

T-Bird
I am going back fifty years here - my first center fire was a 32/20 SRC model 92 - well used but good bore when I got it - shot smokeless in it - commercial stuff was all j boolits at that time - we obtained a winchester tong tool and mold and proceeded to handload - it was a pretty rudimentary process but along the way this happened - everytime we shot commercial (J) ammo we messed up our cast shooting - it took a thorough scrubbing and maybe twenty shots of cast to get back on track - dunno really what was going on there but we figured the copper stuff roughed the bore up and it took some work to get kinda settled back for cast - we used beeswax and tallow hard lube (proly 80:20), shotgun ballistite, and we treated it like a 22RF (dont clean it whilever it shoots straight) ---- every gun is different ---- maybe worth a try here - clean that thing with copper solvent till it is squeakly clean - slug the bore while its clean - (just in case?) - shoot twenty cast loads in it to run it in - then set down with a proper rest and see what it will do

[salvadore]

My lead bullets are all mine, none have undersized bases. BTW, if I could shoot 2 to 3 inch 5 shot groups with iron sights with any of my cast bullet rifles I'd be a happy guy.
I thought about the very same 180gr type cast, but need to purchase the mold.
Finally, I never go from lead to jacketed or visa versa without cleaning out the offending metal.
Thanks for the suggestions gang.

[NSB]

My lead bullets are all mine, none have undersized bases. BTW, if I could shoot 2 to 3 inch 5 shot groups with iron sights with any of my cast bullet rifles I'd be a happy guy.
I thought about the very same 180gr type cast, but need to purchase the mold.
Finally, I never go from lead to jacketed or visa versa without cleaning out the offending metal.
Thanks for the suggestions gang.

Salvadore, I was shooting with a scope on the gun. I'd be very happy also if I could do it with open sights.

[northmn]

I had a Rossi 92 clone that gave problems with accuracy at first. Took it apart and removed a little bit of wood on the forearm as the fit was so tight you could hardly pop the thing off the barrel. Loosened up the barrel bands a bit also. You might also want to look into cast round nose bullets as they sometimes give a bit better accuracy. I loaded a bunch of 38 special round nose and shot it a lot. Seems to shoot OK now. Don't know if maybe the new barrel just didn't need a few shots through it. As to jacketed to cast. Never had any real problems doing that. Sometimes a couple of J bullets help clean out any leading. That's a debate all to itself. Made sense when I shot old military rifles that had a lot of copper fouling. The Winchester design is not one that is noted for the ability to group well, especially after the barrel heats up.


DEP

[CamoWhamo]

A Skinner "barrel mounted peep" or LoPro II, together with one or their blade style front sites will really help improve the accuracy.

http://www.skinnersights.com/barrel_mount_6.html

I have Them on 3 rifles now, plus other skinner sites on half a dozen more rifles. They all work great.

For bullets, i get great results with the Lee .358 158gn RNFP

[salvadore]

MSB, that was commentary on my 68 year old eyesight. I do have a scope on my current 94cl and it makes everything easier.

Gee Northmn, I went thru all that in the early nineties with a previous Marlin cl to include a barrel lapping with no improved accuracy. I really hope a component (sp) change takes care of things.

Camowhammo, the Marble bullseye rear sight is kind of a barrel mounted peep.

[northmn]

Knew a gunsmith that was paid to sight in deer rifles. Claimed he would take more than one rifle to the range. He would fire the Winchester 94's once or twice then let them cool to get a sight in. The carbines with their barrel bands can be less than consistent for warm barrels. I went through a bit of loosening on a Marlin 35 Remington that would walk to the right when it heated up. Loosened the fore stock and its not too bad now. When some talk about lighter loading helping I think it is related.


AT this time I am finding 125 grain bullets OK in the Rossi. I don't know the twist rate in the Miraku but the Rossi is said to be a bit slow. My Marlin 94 Classic 32-20 shot great out of the box with everything but factory Remingtons. I was given a couple of boxes of factory loads and wanted to shoot them up for brass. They patterned where my handloads grouped. Could not get a decent sight in. Still feel that the 32-20 has an edge on the 357 in accuracy. Good luck on your quest.


DEP

[T-Bird]

Interesting Indian Joe, thanks

[missionary5155]

Good morning Salvadore
I just read all your posts... You need to get a bit more specific about bullet diameters, grove diameter of the japchester and what those slugs are cast of. What lube are you using ?
All that basic stuff we have been reading about that makes this journey down the tube turn into accurate loads.
In our house are 4 japchesters and they all shoot our properly fitted cast slugs with under 2" groups at 100 yards. Undersized slugs are a waste of primers and time. Too soft or too hard undersized slugs... well you should have gone fishing.
Mike out of ILLinois for a while

[salvadore]

Well Miss, the lead loads may have been put together 5 to 8 years ago and back then I was using mainly cww maybe some tin and as mentioned they were run thru a die for a final diameter of .359. Back then I may have been using mix of beeswax, lanolin, castor oil and maybe something else. Since then I simplified my life by going to Darr lube (?). I have not checked my groove diameter but since I have a nice star of lube at the muzzle and no obvious leading when I cleaned the barrel for the jacketed loads I don't think it's out of spec. too bad. The groups from jacketed and lead are disturbingly similar.

Northmn, my experience with the 94cl 32/20 was similar to yours. The first 10 shot cast load at 100yds went to 2.25" with 7 going into 1.25". I was thrilled. Mine likes 1680 and gc 115gr. It also shoots 115 pb with 231 well.

Thanks for the input gang.

[lolbell]

My Miroku is a 44, but I was experiencing poor accuracy also. My fix was to use very fat bullets. It has similar grooves to the Marlin Micro Groove. It took a .360 bullet in a 35 Rem Marlin so I applied the same thought to the Miroku 44 and found accuracy went from 4" at 50 yards to 1.5 at 50 yards with a .434 cast from COWW.

[northmn]

My Miroku is a 44, but I was experiencing poor accuracy also. My fix was to use very fat bullets. It has similar grooves to the Marlin Micro Groove. It took a .360 bullet in a 35 Rem Marlin so I applied the same thought to the Miroku 44 and found accuracy went from 4" at 50 yards to 1.5 at 50 yards with a .434 cast from COWW.


Sounds like the standard "fix" for MG barrels. Oversize bullet and often a harder one. As cast water dropped wheel weight??


DEP

[salvadore]

NORTHMN, the 92 is a short rifle and the fore end cap may need relieving, also the forend. I really Don't want to start that or shooting with nothing attached to the barrel, etc.

I've only had two leverguns that wouldn't shoot for me, a late eighties Marlin 94cl 25/20 and an Uberti 73 short rifle 45 Colt and they both kept me busy trying for accuracy. Different loads bullets powder configurations et al. Nothing worked. I hope this one is a real and quicker fix.

[salvadore]

Oh joy, my Keith bullet under 12 grains of 2400 in a 38 case gave me a 5 shot 1.5" 50yd group. So I try the 358156 bullet with the perfect base still sucks. That's also a 38 case load, 13grs of 2400. Anyway, it looks like it's the load not the gun...Oh joy.