A String of Failure to Fires in My ‘73

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Last weekend my Cimmaron ‘73 had a string of about 5 failure to fires. It was the last stage of the day on day 1 of a 2 day match. I bought this carbine new in 2003 and never had a problem with it. I did take the firing pin out last winter and clean the firing pin track. After the string of malfunctions I took it home and took it apart. Nothing apparent was observed. The firing pin, firing pin spring, and firing pin track did not show any sign of excessive fouling.

I’ve run this carbine all summer without cleaning the firing track with no problems before. This match was the 2nd 2 day match in 2 weekends. The carbine had approximately 100 rounds through it the previous weekend with no problem. On the day it failed to fire it had been running fine for 5 stages of 10 rounds each.

The failure to fires occurred after about 4 shots, then the 5 failure to fires, then the carbine fired the 10th round.

There is no sign of a light primer strike on the ejected cartridges.

The rifle is calibrated to .44 Special, I was using Starline brass, CCI primers, Trail Boss and my cast RCBS 44-200-CM boolit cast with scrap lead lubed with Alox. This combination has proved successful for me for years.

I’ve ordered a new firing pin spring. Brownells did not have a new firing pin in stock. I’ll keep you posted how the test firing goes when the new firing pin spring arrives. But you know how these things go, what works at a leisurely practice session is not guaranteed to work at a match.

Just to be sure I went out and bought a brand new Winchester (Miroku) ‘73 with a 24 inch octagon barrel in .44-40 for the 2nd day of the match. I’m really happy with the Winchester/Miroku.

[Ninety Caliber]

Have you checked your main(hammer) spring tension? It is adjustable and they loosen over time and will give intermittent "light strikes".

[ReloaderFred]

And also check the tip of the firing pin. They do break once in awhile. For parts, you can check with Will Shootem, at Pioneer Gunworks, in Springfield, OR.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[JimB..]

“There is no sign of a light primer strike on the ejected cartridges.”

Does this mean that you observed a normal indentation on the primers? If so I’d think ammo rather than gun. Have you pulled down those rounds and taken a good look at the primers?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The carbine has a factory mainspring with the tension screw screwed in all the way to maximum. The hammer feels and sounds like it hits with the same authority as it always has.

I examined the firing pin, it appears to have the proper rounded point however I don’t have the Uberti tech manual to confirm the specs. I’ll probably buy another one when Brownells gets them in stock.

The primers of the ejected cartridges showed zero dimples.

[JimB..]

“The primers of the ejected cartridges showed zero dimples.”

With that forget what I said, seems that you are on the right path with the firing pin.

[ANick57]

Odd that it's intermittent like that. Unless you got something that lodged in the track that blocked the firing pin.. and then cleared?

Can you recreate the failure or has it been functioning as intended since?

The firing pin worked on your initial report after not striking five previous. Either the pin isn't being struck by the hammer, was blocked from moving to strike the primer, or the bolt face was too far from the primer for the firing pin to reach.

So.. let's see.

Hammer. Could it have been caught at the half-cock? Possibly *something* momentarily obstructing the fall to strike the hammer?
Firing pin. *Something* temporarily blocking the firing pin movement?
Bolt not fully in battery. If the lever closed, I'd think that would mean something mechanically awry with toggles, pivot points or trunions. I'd expect that to give you a feel of 'something different' as well be more consistent. But, I suppose it's worth asking?

Definitely not an expert on '73s, just thinking out loud.

Curious to see what you do find though!

Nick

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I’m thinking the firing pin wasn’t begin pushed back by the spring in the position ready to be hit by the falling hammer, but this is just a guess and won’t know for sure until I can say it’s fixed. Right now I’m waiting for the new firing pin spring, then I’ll do some test firing.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

New spring came today and installed it. Can’t say I had an Ah Ha moment. On the day it failed I manually lifted the hammer with my thumb off the bolt several times and observed that the bolt did not retract under spring tension. Maybe it was fouling in the firing pin track, maybe it was a spring that needed to be replaced. Maybe I’ll never know. I’ll test it Friday at the range but guns always work when they are being tested and only fail during a match. One thing is for certain, I’ll be cleaning the firing pin track before 2 weekends of back to back high round count matches from now on.

[jimb16]

I would tear down the action and look for a loose primer wandering around inside.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

This was done the afternoon of the failure before I ran out to the LGS and bought that new Winchester.


I would tear down the action and look for a loose primer wandering around inside.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

222269

It’s all so clear to me now. Blowback fouled the firing pin track. Heavy brass, straight wall cartridge, light powder charge, lots of shooting, wheelweight load, lube, the brass didn’t for a gas seal.

My cleaning between matches should have included the firing pin channel.

Oh well, I got a new rifle out of the deal.

I just didn’t believe there was anything wrong with the ‘73. I love my Cimmaron .44 Special 19” carbine, but I believe my Winchester Miruko .44-40 24” bbl. is a better rifle.

[indian joe]

222269

It’s all so clear to me now. Blowback fouled the firing pin track. Heavy brass, straight wall cartridge, light powder charge, lots of shooting, wheelweight load, lube, the brass didn’t for a gas seal.

My cleaning between matches should have included the firing pin channel.

Oh well, I got a new rifle out of the deal.

I just didn’t believe there was anything wrong with the ‘73. I love my Cimmaron .44 Special 19” carbine, but I believe my Winchester Miruko .44-40 24” bbl. is a better rifle.

Anneal yr brass mate ! that'll stop it

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Anneal yr brass mate ! that'll stop it

Yep, 700+ pieces of brass to anneal would be a winter project.

[indian joe]

Yep, 700+ pieces of brass to anneal would be a winter project.

Not so big of a deal - brass and copper works opposite of steel - heat and quench softens brass (the quench bit is important here)
deprime em - stand em in a tray of water bout up to the black mark 50 or so at the time - work in a poorly lit space sos ya can see the colour change - have at it with a propane torch - when ya see the colour change tip him over in the water with a chopstick or a piece of wire and go to the next one - took me about an hour to do 150, 348W cases. Or ya can spend all winter doin em one at the time - my way ya might burn one or two when ya loose concentration is all.

[Walks]

That good pressure seal is why I use only REMINGTON BRASS in light loads. Starline is too hard & doesn't give a worth while gas seal. If your cases are that dirty & you ain't shooting BLACK POWDER, then you have a very poor or non-existent gas seal. The extra expense of the brass is worth it to me.

[Dusty Ed]

You will still have anneal them no matter what brand you use.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Not so big of a deal - brass and copper works opposite of steel - heat and quench softens brass (the quench bit is important here)
deprime em - stand em in a tray of water bout up to the black mark 50 or so at the time - work in a poorly lit space sos ya can see the colour change - have at it with a propane torch - when ya see the colour change tip him over in the water with a chopstick or a piece of wire and go to the next one - took me about an hour to do 150, 348W cases. Or ya can spend all winter doin em one at the time - my way ya might burn one or two when ya loose concentration is all.

Great description, thanks! I anneal my .45-70 brass by holding each case in my hand (gloved of course). I like this advice, I’m going to follow it.

[ReloaderFred]

Brass doesn't need to be quenched when annealed, as the quenching doesn't affect the final result one way or another. The only reason people quench brass is to cool it sooner for handling, or so they don't have hot brass around their hands that they aren't immediately handling. Whether quenched or air cooled, the result is the same.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Any special consideration for annealing nickel brass? I’ve got about 700+ brass brass and 500 nickel brass.

[indian joe]

Brass doesn't need to be quenched when annealed, as the quenching doesn't affect the final result one way or another. The only reason people quench brass is to cool it sooner for handling, or so they don't have hot brass around their hands that they aren't immediately handling. Whether quenched or air cooled, the result is the same.

Hope this helps.

Fred

you might be right ? but the water also serves a couple other purposes - stops the base of the case from softening for one ----if you want to sit there for hours and do em one at the time - feel free - I got better things to do. :2gunsfiring_v1:

[ReloaderFred]

you might be right ? but the water also serves a couple other purposes - stops the base of the case from softening for one ----if you want to sit there for hours and do em one at the time - feel free - I got better things to do. :2gunsfiring_v1:

The water stops the brass from heating below the level of the water, but the water quenching has no bearing whatsoever on the tempering of the brass, which is what you indicated in your post. What you're doing with the water level is stopping the heat from going any further, and it speeds up the process, but you're not "quenching", as in affecting the hardness, or softness of the brass itself.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[indian joe]

The water stops the brass from heating below the level of the water, but the water quenching has no bearing whatsoever on the tempering of the brass, which is what you indicated in your post. What you're doing with the water level is stopping the heat from going any further, and it speeds up the process, but you're not "quenching", as in affecting the hardness, or softness of the brass itself.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Ok so I been doin the right thing for the wrong reason ......you got me on a technicality