non richochet factory round for 223

[rmcc]

I am looking for an "urban" factory round for an M4 configured AR to put beside the bed. Set up with light/laser combo. Want a round that I don't have to worry about exiting the house. Everything I have looked at has been "wet" loads.

Thanks

[MUSTANG]

A Sintered/Frangible round is what you are looking for. Sintered/Frangible bullets are compressed powdered copper formed into a bullet, they are resistant to ricochet and over penetration. Many Law enforcement agencies use them in cities to reduce possibilities of over penetration in walls creating a hazard for passerby's and other uninvolved citizens - particularly in standoff/hostage situations.

[lefty o]

varmint bullets, or the frangibles are available, but neither is guaranteed as to stop inside a single wall.

[1Hawkeye]

Some varmint bullets won't work in a fast twist ar barrel. The core separates from the jacket in a puff as the jacket comes apart after exiting the barrel.

[tomme boy]

VMAX. Come apart going through a piece of cardboard. They will handle any AR twist.

[Good Cheer]

Once upon a time made practice rounds for the better 2/3's, used varmint bullets loaded down to function but still come apart to minimize ricochets. Eh, worked better for those purposes than 55 grain FMJ but it was still high speed lead chunks flying about. Somewhere on the interseine someone is bound to have published sheet rock penetration tests.
But this gets me to thinking about her self defense loads.

Inside the house and across the yard maybe using bullets heavier than the twist will shoot accurately at long range makes more sense if tests show hitting the "target" will happen and impact results are of greater soft target destructiveness. That's all contingent upon test results with hot loaded unstable projectiles, how unsteady they are and how quickly they tip over when striking said soft target. How big the hole is when the bullet tips over...

None of which addresses the question posed except to say (just my opinion) making bullets come apart is a trade off, 5.56 needs to zip through wall board if you are going to use it in the house for bad people and the Nosler partition is still the best available trade off of desirable bullet characteristics. If her musculature allowed the use of an abbreviated twelve pump with #4's then the better 2/3's would have that.

[Rick Hodges]

CCI/Speer Fusion .223Rem 64gr. SP tests out very well. Penetration similar to 125gr HP 357 Mag. loads in 4 layer denim + ballistic gel tests. (Meets FBI 8"minimum 18"maximum penetration standards). Decent bullet performance without being over penetrative. It is being used by a lot of LE agencies.
Very accurate in my 1-7 twist 16" barrel.

[rockrat]

I would think the Vmax or Hornady SX would work well if you cannot find frangible rounds

[Texas by God]

40 gr Vmax Varmint Express ( Hornady).
3800 fps of leave us alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[1Hawkeye]

V max will work but the sx come apart. It's kinda cool to see them burst.

[Bigslug]

Truth time:

If it's able to penetrate enough to reliably stop bad guys by reaching the Tootsie Roll center of their Tootsiepop, then it's going to be able to penetrate at least a couple interior walls. Remember that modern wound ballistic theory got started in the late 1980's because cops were dying when their light/fast/frangible/rapid-expansion duty rounds didn't penetrate ENOUGH. When you start looking for stuff that stops on a single sheet of wet toilet paper, you start shifting the priority away the very characteristics you need to deal with the "definite" problem in front of you and toward the "maybe" problem of what happens after you've failed to hit a man-sized target at interior distances with a 500-meter-capable weapon system, and failed to think about your backstop and shooting angles when you had all the time in the world to plot it out in the five years before the bad guy showed up.

(Yes, I'm a little jaded on the household penetration topic. Take no personal offense - I've just been here before. . .many times. . .)

The standard old M193 55 grain FMJ will tumble in meat, and it will fragment in meat at distances of less than about 100 yards. The Viet Cong were typically well convinced of its effectiveness. What it does on impact with. . .something else. . . is a huge bag of variables. At the very least, any 5.56 bullet is high speed but relatively low mass, so it has less momentum to keep trucking through intermediate barriers than say, a modern 9mm duty round. The key is not to hit anything besides meat, and not saturate the area with random fire.

I would NOT pick a super-fragile bullet out of concern that it will leave an ugly crater on the surface, but not reach deep enough to damage the plumbing that will stop the threat. Stuff that behaves like a hunting bullet rather than a varmint bullet, but still in the 62 grain or lighter category will better solve the immediate problem, and not have a huge amount of steam left after you put it where it's supposed to go. Prioritize the hit, not the miss. If you're more worried about the miss, go practice some more.

If penetration is truly a huge concern (trailer park, apartment building, etc...), and not five steps down the list of "what ifs", a low-recoil 12 gauge load of smaller pellets such as #4 buck on down to #2 shot is probably your better bet.

[JSnover]

Yeah, there isn't much that won't penetrate a layer or four of sheetrock if you're starting with an effective HD cartridge. I understand why the AR platform is popular, effective, etc but for indoor use you might opt for a more traditional pistol caliber carbine or like the others said, a shotgun. I also understand a lot of folks disagree with me :)
I remember training with ricochet-resistant 5.56 years ago, had a tungsten core in a ceramic projectile or something like that but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere and can't remember who made them.

[Earlwb]

The frangible rounds using the sintered copper epoxy mix for making the bullets work well to prevent ricochets. Penetration is still good, unless the bullet hits something hard. But the rounds can still go though more than one panel of sheetrock though. Maybe not the 2x4 supports, hard to say.

A 12 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 buckshot is probably still the best home defense for people though. (not #4 birdshot).

[dkf]

Frangible rounds are only going to come apart when they hit hard objects. They basically act as an FMJ through soft targets.

Hornady has a 55gr and 60gr TAP urban round which is good if you after limited penetration.

More info and gel tests in the link. http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/

[mattw]

I would second the vote for a 12 gauge with buckshot. I shoot a 6mm/284 and have experienced bullets just disappearing in mid air when fired in the mid to upper 3000 fps range. I would hate to stake my life or the lives of loved ones on a bullet that might not reach the target or that might hit the kid sleeping in the next room.

I had the chance to shoot up a house before it was demo'ed, really got some surprises. Lead me to choose shotgun, 22LR or a very aggressive hollow point in a 45.

[Multigunner]

Practically any centerfire high velocity rifle round is too much for inside a home scenarios.

The East Germans developed some 7.62X39 rounds with bullets composed of a thin jacket filled with a resin core. They loaded it just strong enough to cycle an SKS or AK. It was for use by security guards at airports and in government office buildings.
The requirement was that it not penetrate a office desk or solid core wooden door like those in use in public buildings of the day.
I suspect it would have shredded on passing through plate glass as well.

I'd chose a large bore handgun or a shotgun for dealing with intruders not likely to wear body armor. If body armor was a factor I'd go for all the penetration I could get.
I don't think the face shield of any bullet resistant helmet (with exception of the Russian Titanium helmet and visor combo) would hold up to a face full of buck shot at close range.

[rmcc]

Thanks for all the replies, it was a question that I have wanted to see answers to. My actual "bedside" is a Sig 228 w/Inforce light. The other side of the bed is a S&W model 65 stuffed full of Glasers (she never has liked autos). Over the shop door is the proverbial 12 ga with 6 rounds #4 buck on board.

Thanks again fellas for the input!!


rmcc

[country gent]

glasser may have some offering in 223,. a light franginable at very high velocities. But be prepared they aren't cheap either

[starnbar]

One more thing to consider about the ar in a house is the blast and flash at night you will be night blind for at least a minute unless you shut your eyes and pull the trigger. Hearing about the same too.

[RU shooter]

What was just said above is correct I have fired rounds from handguns inside enclosed buildings without muffs or plugs it's not so much the flash blindingly most homes aren't total darkness , but the concussion that is very disorienting. The arevage hall way is what 36-48" wide .thats a pretty small space !It's like your stunned for a while all you can hear is a ringing in your ears and have the feeling of slow motion least what I felt . I can only imagine what effect a center fire short barrelled rifle would have on you and your abilities to deal with an already high stress situation . The people who normally do house combat be it LE or Military have the training and experience to deal with the bang and flash and know what to expect and normally wear some sort of hearing protection . that first time was a real eye opener . A suppressor on the end of the barrel would be a real good idea if the AR is your bump in the night gun .

[Rick Hodges]

I was involved in a shooting where a total of 9 rounds of 357 Mag. were fired in a small kitchen/dining area of a house. It was dimly lit during the early AM hours. Neither muzzle flash nor noise bothered me DURING the incident. However, I have permanent hearing loss and tinnitus to this day. That was over 40 years ago. What I remember, most vividly, was telling myself to look at the front sight. Training matters! I am a firm believer that one fights as he/she trains.

[yeahbub]

Is the Glazer Safety Slug still being made? It was available on a number of rifle calibers as well as pistol. Very effective at transferring energy but also breaking up and reducing overpenetration. Pricey, but it has/had a good reputation. I'd seen it in .223 and .30-30 a few years back.


I am a firm believer that one fights as he/she trains.. . . . Amen.