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View Full Version : Informal twisted tail vs. flat base test.....



bcp477
09-14-2008, 08:52 PM
I performed an informal test today, to see if tail twisting vs. flat, folded bases on my paper patched bullets made any difference. I fired 30 of each, alternating in 5 shot strings, at targets placed in tandem, from my range bag rest. The rifle: my ole reliable M48....the cartridge: 8 x 57JS. The load was, of course, identical for all 60 rounds.....my "standard" 28.0 grains of IMR-4064, cotton wool filler, with a 170 grain PP bullet (sized to .314", then patched with two wraps of plain lined paper....for a dry dia. of .3237"), etc. etc. Half of the bullets had twisted tails, clipped off after drying (my usual procedure). For the other half, the patches were cut to about 1/8" long, then folded over flat onto the bullet bases....and dried that way. Both sets were lubed with Lee Liquid Alox (as per my usual procedure). The distance used was 100 meters.

Anyway, the long and short of it was.....there was no discernible difference. Over 60 rounds, I could not make any conclusion that one wrapping technique was any better than the other.....at least, not in my rifle, with that load. Groups for both types ranged from about 1" to about 1 1/2"... pretty typical for this load and rifle.

So, the only conclusion I can draw, if any, is that the controversy about flat folded vs. twisted tails likely has NO one absolute answer. One procedure may work better for some calibers or cartridges than the other....but, not necessarily for all. Certainly, this test is anything but conclusive...and should in NO way be deemed as proving anything. However, at least within the very narrow context of MY particular rifle and MY particular loads, I know now that no one can insist with any credibility that there IS any difference. So, for my purposes, that is good enough.

docone31
09-14-2008, 09:35 PM
Yay! someone did a test.
I essentially have done the same thing. I shot 40 with tails twisted and left straight into the case. The second batch, I clipped off short, but still slightly twisted. I have a .303 British.
I noticed no difference in any load. I still have to yet get any real target predictability.
My sizing was off.
I am trying a new size this next session, and I did clip the tails. They load easier for me.
Before, the boolitts actually fell into the case after neck sizing. My bore is a little wide.

Bigjohn
09-15-2008, 12:06 AM
Good work both of you!
You are correct when you say the results only apply to your rifle as another rifle may disagree with you.

In practice; the patch material should only have an effect on the boolit while it is within the barrel. Seeing as how the patch material is supposed to 'fall' off once the boolit has left the muzzle.

John.

martinibelgian
09-19-2008, 06:23 AM
Mind you, the twisted tail would only be an issue when you are using an overpowder wad (like in BP), damaging the bullet base because the wad pushed the tail in - which wouldn't be a problem when no wad is used.

bcp477
09-19-2008, 05:54 PM
I do use cotton wool filler, as my charge weight in this load is only 28.0 grains....of a medium-slow powder (IMR-4064). So, IF this approximates, to some degree, the "overpowder wad" of which you speak, then your assertion is not necessarily correct - at least in this particular example. If you are speaking of a harder material, such as a vegetable fiber wad, etc., then I would see your point.

windrider919
09-19-2008, 11:13 PM
When I first started i tried it both ways and found that for me I could tell no difference. I went with the folded base because I could run them thru the sizer better than tailed bullets. And I liked how they stand up in the lube tray instead of lying on their side. But the real reason was that when using wads I did get flyers and a few recovered bullets had distorted bases where the tail was unevenly hammered on firing into the bullet base bu the wad. And the wad did not seal as it was at an angle, held up unevenly by the mound of the tail. With the flat folded wrap the wad pushes evenly across the entire base surface, and the wad does its job, sealing the gas behind the bullet.

bcp477
09-20-2008, 09:38 PM
Ah, it does sound as if you guys are referring to an actual wad, such as the vegetable fiber wads, rather than filler material. I understand your point....I see how such a wad could distort the base of the bullet, causing inaccuracy. Evidently, the same does not hold true for the cotton wool I use, because I have no indications of any such phenomenon.

eka
09-22-2008, 08:54 AM
In my very very brief experiences with paper patching. I've have found that in my smokeless rifles at 50 and 100 yards I can't tell the difference between a folded base or twisted tail. But, I have found a couple of things worth mentioning. The larger boolits are not all that difficult to get a neatly folded base. However, when patching .22 and .243 cals., I have not had much luck folding those. Twisting the tail, for me, is the only way to go with those little rascals. But, again, I have just started down this road.

Keith