Muzzleloader shopping ?

[Bait O' Eggs]

I have never owned a Muzzleloader. :roll: Lots of guns and hunting, just not a smokepole. A few years ago I used 11 years of preference points for a quality NE Oregon deer hunt and borrowed a Knight Bighorn. Not sure why but I seem to have gotten bit by the idea of doing more of this style of hunting. I applied for a ML elk tag this year (drawing hasnt happened yet to see if I am successful).

Oregon requires open ignition. I have looked at guns online, cabelas, local sporting goods stores. The stores dont carry many guns in stock. So the hands on options are pretty limited to do the touchy feely thing.

I think I would like to go with more of a traditional looking style gun, as opposed to the composite stocks and modern looking firearms. I would like to go percussion as opposed to Flintlock. I am leaning towards conical bullets, Oregon does not allow sabots. Patch and round ball doesnt seem like the direction I want to go. I would like to cast my own lead bullets for the ML.

With those parameters in mind, I really like the looks of the Great Plains Hunter in a 54 caliber. Longer barrel, twist for a conical, I like the look of the foregrip length as opposed to the longer Kentucky wood grip. Its different matter I cant seem to find one of these for sale anywhere, backordered seems to be the standard. I also see the thread on this forum with Lymans quality falling off in recent years. :cry:

What I think I would like is a Great Plains Hunter in a 54 caliber with a stainless barrel and the wood stock, though I dont think it exist. It rains in my parts of the country and keeping a gun from rusting is a full chore during hunting season. I havent been able to find a gun that has that GPH look with a stainless barrel, or if a guy could do an aftermarket stainless barrel on one of those guns???

I would like to attend one of the local Muzzleloader Rendezvous and talk to some blackpowder guys, get some real world opinions, not just the sales guy behind the counter. I see a rendezvous this weekend in Prineville, which is a 3 hour drive. Maybe I drive over and talk to some people.

Is there a traditional look with a stainless barrel I havent found?

[pietro]

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Welcome to the addiction ! ;)

You can't go wrong with a .54, as the conicals or PRB's (patched round balls) will take just about any game you're likely to run across.

The Lyman GPR/GPH are made in Italy, and AFAIK most vendors have the guns on backorder, waiting on the factory.

An excellent substitute, however, is the Thompson (T/C) .54 Renegade, which Track of the Wolf has in stock:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/492/2/AAR-260


https://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/AAR-260_1.jpg


T/C also used to make a stainless sidelock called the Greyhawk, but AFAIK, since it's discontinued, you'll need to get one from aftermarket sellers



https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/14106/939745439/wm_943923.jpg


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[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

people tend to come to muzzle loading in one of 2 ways.

season extenders and Rendezvous

you started as a season extender as did I and got bit by the bug

I have inlines and side locks

go see what they have at the Rondy if you want to play their games you need a costume also must wear period dress for most of them.

you know what the state requires for hunting , go find out what the Rondy limits people to , the rondy gun will take game under the state law but very likely many of the guns that fit state law won't play at the rondy.

good fun very often you will find some decent MZ at a Rondy for a fair price people who made or are having made a custom and are selling the Thompson they started with

the cost isn't just the gun , you need a powder horn / flask , measure , range rod , cleaning supplies

it isn't that much but some of it can add up

I bought my first MZ for 99 dollars before I could fire it I had another 100 in powder, conicals , patches , range rod , caps , ball starter , jag , speed loaders , flask and powder measure


stainless isn't period appropriate for rondy and you have to clean the same stainless or blued steel with black powder so not a huge benefit to the stainless any way.

[jdb3]

I've had many black powder rifles over the years. The Lyman Great Plains is what is in the gun safe currently. I'd take a hard look at the patched round ball. My hunting partner hunts almost exclusively with a Hawken style rifle with patch round ball and has killed everything from grouse to moose and muskox with it. Mostly one shot kills. He has a conical barrel also but the round ball shoots so much more accurately and kills so well he has just put the conical barrel away. Just keep your shots under 120 yards (after a bunch of practice) and it will do you well. Too many people try to turn a muzzle loader into a high power rifle, there is a reason you hunt with it (so much more fun and challenging) so take it and have fun. I'd also go with the 54 cal with about 90 grains of FFFG powder, has always worked well for me. Jim

[jj500]

Hey BoE,go with the Great Plains instead of the Hunter.More versatile and more available.If you do get a wild hair and want to shoot at some at the shoots it will do better with the slow twist on round balls.The T/C is very available but I would go with the Lyman based on it is more authentic then the T/C with its looks.If your from Portland area let me know and I can point you to more shoots in the area where you can get better acquainted with the community.I would go with the blue or brown finish,it rains here but those are easily taken care of.

[jj500]

Mid South Shooters Supply has them in stock for 560 for the Great Plains,for got to ask do you need R/H or L/H?

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. I have no desire to go play dress-up at the Rendezvous, [smilie=1: I just thought I could look at some muzzleloaders there. It would be cold day down under when I get the wife into the frying pan toss competition ;)

Pietro - That greyhawk is just what I was describing for the most part. I really like the looks of that gun. :D

Jdb3 - I was under the impression (for unknown reasons) that a conical would shoot better than a round ball?? Seems that might be wrong. I know I shot conicals thru the Bighorn the year I muzzy hunted. The way I shot, maybe a round ball would have helped :roll::roll: Maybe a patch isnt a big deal with the rest of the stuff it takes to shoot, but the patch seems like a PIA to deal with.

jj500 - I have seen the GP for sale a few places, and Mid South Shooters Supply, like everywhere else the Great Plains "Hunter" 54 is backordered. I am a righty, no use for a left handed gun.

[Mac118]

If you like the stainless look on a traditional gun there's a finish called French Grey, which I just recently learned about in this forum. Looks very nice. That's probably something you could do yourself to a blued barrel depending on your handiness.

[indian joe]

I have never owned a Muzzleloader. :roll: Lots of guns and hunting, just not a smokepole. A few years ago I used 11 years of preference points for a quality NE Oregon deer hunt and borrowed a Knight Bighorn. Not sure why but I seem to have gotten bit by the idea of doing more of this style of hunting. I applied for a ML elk tag this year (drawing hasnt happened yet to see if I am successful).

Oregon requires open ignition. I have looked at guns online, cabelas, local sporting goods stores. The stores dont carry many guns in stock. So the hands on options are pretty limited to do the touchy feely thing.

I think I would like to go with more of a traditional looking style gun, as opposed to the composite stocks and modern looking firearms. I would like to go percussion as opposed to Flintlock. I am leaning towards conical bullets, Oregon does not allow sabots. Patch and round ball doesnt seem like the direction I want to go. I would like to cast my own lead bullets for the ML.

With those parameters in mind, I really like the looks of the Great Plains Hunter in a 54 caliber. Longer barrel, twist for a conical, I like the look of the foregrip length as opposed to the longer Kentucky wood grip. Its different matter I cant seem to find one of these for sale anywhere, backordered seems to be the standard. I also see the thread on this forum with Lymans quality falling off in recent years. :cry:

What I think I would like is a Great Plains Hunter in a 54 caliber with a stainless barrel and the wood stock, though I dont think it exist. It rains in my parts of the country and keeping a gun from rusting is a full chore during hunting season. I havent been able to find a gun that has that GPH look with a stainless barrel, or if a guy could do an aftermarket stainless barrel on one of those guns???

I would like to attend one of the local Muzzleloader Rendezvous and talk to some blackpowder guys, get some real world opinions, not just the sales guy behind the counter. I see a rendezvous this weekend in Prineville, which is a 3 hour drive. Maybe I drive over and talk to some people.

Is there a traditional look with a stainless barrel I havent found?

Stainless??? wont gain you anything really - still gotta clean it everytime you take it out - a traditional brown finish works good - anytime you get a few specs of rust during the day a clean and oil that night will blend it into the finish - those old guys in the eastern forests knew a thing or two when they browned em!
A 54 round ball at full throttle is a pretty effective missile - seen pictures where blokes have put one clear through an elk and broke both shoulders. By the time you get enough practice in to hit effectively with it you will have figured out that that patch thing is an easy deal - dont be scared of that.
Hunting with round ball will bring a lot of frustration but it will develop your hunting skills like nothing else.
You are standing on the edge of something that will be a whole lot of fun - you already halfway there with your thinking - take the leap - go whole hog - get a sidelock ball gun and go do it!

[Good Cheer]

My remedy is a TC Renegade with a 32" GM .58 (70" twist) drop in barrel.

[bob208]

I got into muzzle loading for the completive shooting. I could never get into the dress up either.

I would advise to pick up a used tc .45 or .50 and learn to shoot round ball first. then branch out into experiments. I don't think the .54 is then begining and end all like a lot think it is.

[OverMax]

Not many rifles around that sported a stainless barrel. T/C cougar may be a candidate to watch out for also. But sadly was limited to 50 cal only.
I hunt deer on some occasions with my T/c Hawken 45 cal sporting a stainless Green Mountain quickie-twist barrel. (1 in 28) a dandy looking combination. (bluing & stainless is.)
Use to shoot a 54 for the same purpose but gave up doing. Being a good shot and one who recognizes his limitations. I get by with my littl 45 cal year after year. "Brown is down" are those first words heard by the wife {yearly} describing my daily muzzle loader hunts. If I don't get a shot. She's to call me daily and tell me about her day.

[triggerhappy243]

i am teaching a new shooter. I started him on the 50 with lead patch roundball. recoil is next to nothing with 50 gr. a 54 would be just i tiny bit more recoil, but hardly noticeable. both the 50 and 54 will do what you want. practice is the key.In my opinion, a maxi-ball may be a bit overkill on deer.......................... but, all the speed and energy in the world is useless unless you can hit your target every time.

[rfd]

for patched balls you'd want the slower 1:60 twist GPR not the the faster 1:32 twist GPH (conicals). it's hard to beat a .54 for versatility as it can be loaded up and down with different powder granulations and charges, and different diameter balls to suit the occasion. these lyman guns are from investarms and unlike most other offshore guns, you can work on their breech and bolsters . i think you'll really love a .54 GPR, as i do.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

if your primary goal is season extending that knight bighorn is a nice gun , mine is the western with the musket cap ignition , no one requires that around here so I picked it up very reasonable , I also just picked up a TC omega 209 ignition for the 4-H it needs a rear sight.

when you have a dozen kids loading all day long , the 209 ignition is a labor saver I like a Williams peep sight mounted on the receiver.


round balls work with nice light loads for shooting targets even fromt he fast twit guns at 25 yards and work fine on game at reasonable distance.
good fit is king be it a patched round ball or a conical. but a lubed patch can be more forgiving for fit it flows into the rifling well .

for conical the Hornady great plains for one you can purchase over 90gr in a 1:28 twist will penetrate very very deep a deer lengthen wise with a bunch of bone hit

[charlie b]

Round ball or conical. Depends on range. If over 100yd then the conical will gain ground on the round ball. At 200yd I would not use a round ball, but a conical would be just fine, maybe out to 300yd if you know how to estimate range well.

Problem is you should make up your mind on projectile first. Some say fast twist will shoot round ball just fine. Well, my GPH does shoot them, just not near as accurate as the conicals. If you want to use round ball then get a slow twist barrel.

As mentioned above, the Hornady Great Plains bullets work very well. I like to size mine to the rifle bore so they are a slip fit in the barrel. 90-100gn with the .50 cal results in 2" groups at 100yds (and sometimes less). The sharp shoulder cuts a nice entry hole and the soft lead expands well.

The other down side to the conicals is recoil. When you get to the 400gn range the recoil becomes an issue. The Lyman GP rifles have a VERY sharp edge at the top of the butt plate. I filed mine so it is not as sharp (after being cut through a denim shirt). Since I fire a lot of rounds at the range I use a PAST recoil pad when shooting the conicals.

Round ball, not an issue. Like shooting an AR.

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk

[Bait O' Eggs]

Again, thanks to those who share their wisdom

[mooman76]

Put a good coat of oil or wax on your gun before taking it out if it looks like rain. Wipe it down good at the end of day and reoil if needed.

[Kuato]

I use Ballistol on my guns in bad weather. seems to stay put and never had any rust issues even in the humid Florida climate.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I was walking the aisles at a local gun show Saturday and found a Great Plains Hunter 54 caliber laying on the table. Guy told me it was his buddies and it has been shot twice. [smilie=1: I am no muzzleloader guy, it looks pretty clean. I see another table there with a guy selling nothing but muzzleloader stuff. I take the gun to him for a "professional" opinion, ....at least he knew more about them than I do. He drops a light down the barrel, and does a few things, and tells me it looks brand new to him. He sees the price tag of $350, and says if I dont buy it he will.

She followed me home :-D

Time to take up smoking, I need to find a bullet mold, buy some powder and caps.

https://i.imgur.com/VB1MOZT.jpg

[pietro]

.

You did well, Pilgrim...…. ;)

REALLY well ! :D

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[Kuato]

Nice find & great price!! I have a GPR flinter in 54 cal., I built from a kit. I counln't be happier. The rifle shoots amazing with patch ball.
Now comes the fun part.... LOAD DEVELOPMENT!

[Rcmaveric]

Looks like a lovely addition to the family.

Don't forget pawn shops when looking for guns. They don't always know what they have. I got my Knight Wolverine for 60 bucks because the guy couldn't get rid of it. I inspected the bore and liked what i saw. Its was designed more for sabots, but it shoots lead good enough for me.

[Toymaker]

Bait O' Eggs,
Check out Grey Haven Arms up on Whidbey Island. https://greyhavenarms.com/
See what he has or can do for you.
Good hunting.

[taco650]

You did well! Welcome to the addiction!

[OverMax]

Good buy.
About half off (msrp) of what such rifle sell for.

[GunnyJohn]

Bait O Eggs,
I live and hunt here in N.E. Oregon. Got into muzzle loading a few years back. Have taken 1 elk and one deer with it. Both were taken with conicals. This year I'm going to PRB. There is a guy here in LaGrande that has a shop that deals mostly in muzzle loaders. He has been doing it along time. Pretty sharp fella. He's my go to guy when I have questions, or need supplies. He hunts with a .50 cal and PRB and has been killing elk a while. It seems that the key thing, like others have stated, know your rifle. From my personal experience, the conicals have quite a bit more recoil. But they hit hard. The PRB's travel faster and flatter, and will kill cleanly as long as you do your part. I shoot a .54 and run 100 grns of goex with Hornady great plains bullets. They kill well. I have been considering getting a Lee REAL mold, but I really want to get this PRB thing figured out. Good luck with your hunt this year. As for me, I'm in the same boat, waiting for the draw info to come out.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Gunny, I drew next to nothing, hope you got a good hunt. I have been trying to decide which powder to start with. Picked up most of the supplied I need except powder, hopefully smoking soon

[725]

Well done. That's a fine rifle. Get a good tutor or good instruction manual. Cleaning is the life of these things. There is a marine rust preventative made by the Boeing Corp. (airplane guys). It's an aerosol, penetrative in nature, and dries with a thin wax finish. For the life of me, I can't remember the trade name.------T-81 ? A little internet research might help. If I can find it, I'll get back here. Anyway, it's fantastic for exterior rust prevention. Won't rub off like "Rig" or other oils.

[725]

Follow up: I dug around and found the info. BOESHIELD "T-9". It's an aerosol and a little goes along way. 1-800-962-1732

725

[Bait O' Eggs]

I finally got out and made some smoke for the first time with the new gun.

First off that set trigger, really makes the front trigger light. I am guessing less than a pound. Barely touch it and she goes off.

Not knowing what powder or bullet to start with, I got a pound of triple 7. There are only two places in the state that sell "blackpowder" . I was told at a couple stores, they dont stock it because their insurance wont allow it, just to unstable????? They all had an assortment of pyrodex etc.. I got some 425 grain Great Plains bullets 54 cal.

The first 9 shots, didnt go off on the first trigger pull. Hammer drops, but no bang. Reset hammer and try again and she goes off. I dont think I was getting the cap all the way down on the nipple. The last two shots I used my pocket knife to push the cap down since my finger wasnt getting it done, and they both went off. Maybe I need a new nipple, or to learn how to get it on, or just probably I dont know what I am doing.

I was shooting about 50 yards, off the hood of the truck, from the sun into the shadows, it was a little tough to see the dot on the paper. I loaded 100 grains of Triple 7, and shot a 3.5 inch 3 shot group. Son followed up with 3 shots and was about a 3 inch group. I upped powder to 105 grains and the grouping was about the same. Not optimum shooting set up, but not real bad.

After shooting I ran a few patches down the barrel with some cleaner, I was surprised how quick they came back "clean". 4 patches and they were essentially clean. Some butter afterwards, and I removed the nipple and cleaned it up, greased the threads and reinstalled it. Hope I got it clean enough.

Not to self: be careful where you put the buttstock, to much shoulder and it hurts, a little more in the crook of the arm and it hurts not so much. That curved metal rear butt plate is sharp top and bottom.

[mooman76]

Good for you. You might try backing off on the powder loads a little and you might see groups shrink. 100 & 105 gr is pretty hefty loads especially with 777. Your problem with the caps is fairly common. There are a variety of nipples and caps out there and they are slightly different in both size and taper. You can remove the nipple and put it in a drill and remove some metal a little at a time until you get better nipple fit. You also see this problem allot when buying used guns because dry firing mushrooms the nipple. Usually you start off with a powder charge and move up 5gr at a time until you get your best groups or groups you are looking for. Since you already started with 100gr you can do the same on a downward scale. I don't knw your purpose but some choose to sacrifice a small amount of accuracy for more power for hunting. That's for you to decide but 100 gr of 777 is more than is needed for deer.

[Eddie2002]

One thing I've noticed with cap locks, if it has been dry fired the nipple can mushroom just a little bit and will cause the cap to misfire. Dress the sides with a diamond knife sharpener or a good stone really can help. My favorite for misfires is when a piece of the cap gets stuck up in the hammer and cushions the strike. Nice rifle, have fun working up loads for it.

[TCLouis]

Ya done good pilgrim.
Unfortunately cant't tell where you are from, but look for what may not be available to you . . . Black Powder
50 gr FFFG and PRB is very accurate in my self built 54 and 8-110 is also. STAY WITHIN MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDATION ON LOADS
The Lee REALs shot decent also

Try your best to find true black powder, if not . . . IF you have yo use Pyrodex clean it good and as soon after shooting as possible
Dab of dishwashing liquid in plain ol water cleans it up very well using Black or pyrodex . . . Don't know about cleaning with the other substitutes.

Good luck on your hunt.