Convince me I need a .45 AR wheelgun

[Bumslie]

I was just given a 500ct box of brand new Remington. 45 AR brass.

I dont have a gun chambered for it.

What are the advantages of owning one? What advantages would it have over. 357?

I own three. 357s with plans to get a .460 and .41 next

Thanks for the help.

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[condorjohn]

Not having one is just as good of an excuse as ever!

[Outer Rondacker]

Just think if you buy one its one less that can get into the hands of a bad guy. Just saying.

[nagantguy]

I’ve been lusting after one as well , no one seems to have anything in that flavor in stock, anyone have real trigger time with one. What would you recommend?

[Dale53]

I have revolvers for most of the classic revolver cartridges, .32 S&WLong/.32 H&R Magnum, .38 Special/.357 Magnum, .44 Special/.44 Magnum, .45 ACP/.45 AR, .45 Colt, etc. Frankly, I thoroughly enjoy them all. I am a shooter and have thrown a LOT of lead in my time. Most all of it has been with my home cast bullets.

Having said that, right now my two favorite cartridges are the .38 Special and the .45ACP/.45AR. They are both a real pleasure to shoot, easy to load, extemely accurate, and economical of powder and lead. In addition to my time on the range, I have also used them extensively on small game with EXCELLENT results.

Further, absolutely excellent revolvers have been made for both. My 625-8 JM Special is about as good as it gets for the .45’s. After you get going with YOUR new .45 revolver, you’ll find that Starline makes superior brass for .45 Auto Rim.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/SW625-8JMSpecial-3351.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/SW625-8JMSpecial-3351.jpg.html)

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[Bumslie]

I've looked at the 625's and they really dont tickle my fancy.

Seeing the model 1955 does, however. But the going rate for them is hard to swallow. Let alone trying to find one in kommiefornia.

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[murf205]

Why buy one? Why not buy one! I sold my 1917 Colt to buy another gun and I have been wanting another one since. They don't kick like a mule, don't deafen the shooter and most love cast boolits. Long story made short...they are a hoot to shoot and have some pretty good punch as well. A 225 gr Keith boolit would be my choice but mine liked the Lyman boolit that pretty well duplicates the hardball 230 gr.
Sure wish I had that gun back. If you have 500 pcs of brass, you're half way there.

[Plate plinker]

MOON CLIPs that’s why.

Also if it’s good enough for JM it’s good enough for you and me.

[Bazoo]

I vote get that 41 and swap the AR brass for 41 mag brass!

[lefty o]

whats need got to do with anything?

[Bumslie]

whats need got to do with anything?True. How about rephrasing it this way..

If I have X amount of money

And both a 45 acp revolver and a .460 cost exactly the same..

Why would I choose .45 over. 460?

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[BoolitBill]

I pick up 45 acp brass at the range every time I go, never once found a 460. That would be reason enough for me, just get some full moon clips and you are good to go.

[Uncle R.]

1955s are true classics and I love mine dearly. If you run across a sweet specimen I suggest you buy it. Expensive? Yes, but they'll probably just go up in value even so. You can consider it a wise investment that you can shoot and enjoy as it increases in price over the years.

I expect you'll find it's more accurate with AR brass than moon clips, but moon clips have their own benefits for some types of shooting, and you'll probably end up using both.

My 1955 is a lifetime keeper and not for sale, but the truth is I shoot my K-38s a lot more. I'm usually just shooting paper, and I don't need that big .45 slug just to go through a target. The .38s are just as accurate, and easier on powder and lead. Don't let practical matters influence your buying decision though. The N frame 45s are just too cool to pass up.

Uncle R.

[osteodoc08]

It’s not a need, it’s a want.

Honestly, sell the brass and put the funds into something more familiar. Components, a new mold, etc.

[str8wal]

Why would I choose .45 over. 460?

I guess it depends on what you want it to do. 460's are HUGE guns. I'd take a 45 Colt over a 460 for nearly any purpose short of hunting elephant. Never had a yearning for a 45 AR, although I do have some brass. AR is nice in that you don't need moonies.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

IF you can afford and want it - that is need.

[flint45]

One super accurate cartridge I have three and they are great.

[ShooterAZ]

It's better to want it and not have it, than need it and not have it....I've got one and prefer the AR cartridge over moon clips.

[Reverend Al]

I finally just got a 4" heavy barrel 625-3 in .45 ACP and have wanted one for some time. I already shoot .45 ACP in my Colt government model IPSC match gun and have tons of brass and cast boolits for it (PC'd 200 lead SWC is the flavour of choice). With a revolver you have the option of loading light Gold Cup style target loads with 185 grain wadcutters (I have that mould too) up to 250 grain SWC's intended for the .45 Colt. I personally think that the full moon clips are just a bonus for easy loading and unloading with the ACP brass, but it sounds like you have a good supply of AR brass to work with. I'd buy a .45 ACP / AR revolver for now and look for your wanted .460 later, but that's just my personal opinion ...

[375supermag]

Hi...
I say buy one and shoot it.
I bought a 1917 in .45ACP years ago and shoot it exclusively with .45AutoRim brass.
Great fun.
I also shoot most every other revolver cartridge from .38Spl up through .44Mag and .45Colt.
I probably shoot more .357Mag than any other revolver cartridge but I will not be without my .45AR, .41Mag, .44Spl and.45Colt revolvers.
They all are useful and have their place in my handgunning pursuits. Plus they are fun to shoot.

[kayala]

You're not helping. I was trying hard to convince myself for past month that I don't need a 45 wheelgun :D.

[Nueces]

You're not helping. I was trying hard to convince myself for past month that I don't need a 45 wheelgun :D.

Wrong end of the net for that sort of advice, Pilgrim...

[Bigslug]

I fall into the camp of "Moon clips are an annoying PITA", so if you're sitting on a small mountain of Auto Rim brass, you're off to a good start, IMO.

That said, having a few mooners around to dispose of your non-feeding ACP reloading errors is WAY more fun than pulling bullets.

Advantages over .357, or some other things? It's basically in the same ballistic performance company as the classic old west gunfighter cartridges - that is to say, big diameter, heavy slug, relatively low velocity. This makes is very practical for what handguns are actually supposed to be used for - making large, ugly holes in things to distances beyond which you'd really be better off using a rifle. Unlike the various magnums, it isn't even trying to pretend to be a rifle, and I find I'm coming to like that kind of purity of function. It is also low pressure and has a very stiff case head, both of which will provide you with a lot of accuracy potential. The lack of requirement to bump bullets up and over a feed ramp allows you to shoot some truly catastrophic nose designs with impunity. As I like to say of the 452423, Elmer Keith had to be EXTRA P-Oed at the world when he designed that one.

[376Steyr]

S&W Mountain Gun in 45 ACP, Model 625-6, 4" tapered barrel. Target sights. No lock. A run of them was made in 2000. Plan on spending at least a grand. Good luck!

[murf205]

True. How about rephrasing it this way..

If I have X amount of money

And both a 45 acp revolver and a .460 cost exactly the same..

Why would I choose .45 over. 460?

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Have you shot a 460 S&W yet?

[Bumslie]

Have you shot a 460 S&W yet?Sure have. One handed. That's how I got the bug

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[wl620]

If you have to ask you probably dont “need” it. However I have 2 of them and wish I had more, I carry my JM 625-8 daily in an el paso tom three persons rig (I dont get to town much) and have shot every thing from 200gr. swc to the best 45 colt boolit of all time the rcbs 45-270-saa through it in auto rim brass and acp brass with and without clips, it will take care of 99% of the stuff around here that needs shot mostly with its favorite load a lyman 452460 crimped in the top lube groove and scootin out the front around 950-1000. for the other 1% of the time if i need something bigger I’ve got a steel box full of rifles. I dont see much need for a 460 wheelgun, I’ve nothing to prove.

[Murphy]

Over the years, I've owned 4 different .45 Auto Rim revolvers (all S&W's). Two of them Brazilian imports, one of which I still own, a Model of 1988 with a 5 inch barrel, and currently a Mountain Gun version.

All shot well, very well.

Reasons to own one? Versatility being the #1 reason. The 45 ACP cartridge can be bought off the shelf in quiet a few offerings. Anything from light target up to high end self defense rounds. Not so much with the 45 Auto Rim however. But, considering you reload you have one of the most versatile handgun cartridges out there. It can be hand loaded from powder puff to stout and covers a lot of ground, shot shells as well. A nice SWC powder puff load is great for dispatching pesky little critters around the place to introducing new shooters to big bore hand gunning. Stepping on up to mid range loads covers all the ground a standard 1911 can power wise. And, one can carefully work up stout hand loads that are more than enough for average whitetails out to 50 yards with ease. It's just that versatile!

And lastly, a lot of people talk about the moon clips being a pain. Therein lies the beauty of owning one. Always keep a few moon clips around whether you care for them or not. Should you find yourself without some loaded auto rim rounds, you can always grab up a box of 45 ACP and use them until you've resupplied your auto rim cartridges. Oh, and there isn't a faster wheel gun out there when it comes to an emergency reload that I am aware of.

At heart, I'm a .357 fanatic. Pretty much for all of the same reasons above. I would be extremely hard pressed if I had to pick between one of my 357's or my S&W Mountain Gun.

Best of luck on your decision.

Murphy

[bob208]

I have 3 a colt and s&w 1917 and a Brazilian contract. they all shoot great. I have a pile of half moon clips. but I use full moon clips. for shoots where you need a quick reload the full moons work the best along with retrieving your brass. I have a 1000 rounds of at brass but have never used it.

as far as the .357 to the .45 I would stay with the .357. longer range hits just as hard and lighter to carry. I do have other cals. along with .41, .44-40, .38-40,.30 carbine and .44 mag . for a start.

but if I ever had to trim the heard the .357 would be the last to go.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Glad to hear the comment from Murphy and bob208....I was starting to feel some itch for the larger wheel gun until their comments made me happy with my 357 stable again.

[bob208]

read skeeter skelton he tried all the big bores but always end up back with the .357-38 spl.

[Harry O]

You were given 500 cases to use. What more reason do you need to buy a gun to use them? I have bought guns for less reason than that and never regretted it.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

It's on my wish list.

[dbosman]

Besides the other's good points, the .45 AR can be magnum-ized, as well.
The case walls are thicker at the base than .45 ACP. It can also use longer heavier bullets.
"Handloader" has cover this aspect at least twice in the last fifty years.
Remington has run brass every few years. Starline lists it as well. Your 500 may last a lifetime if you don't go magnum, though.

[castalott]

Life is short and you are only here a short time.... Then you are dead for a very long time.... If there is something you want very bad ( within reason), I say go for it...

I visit a lot of cemeteries... I haven't seen a tombstone yet that said, " I wish I had worked a lot more and done without the things that make me happy."

[arlon]

I do like the 45 ACP/AR revolvers. I have a pair of S&W 1917s, 1955 Target and a 625-8. I think my favorite is a commercial 1917 but I'm fond of fixed sight guns.

[Guesser]

I modified my Ruger 45 Auto cylinder to take 45 A.R. Now it works for both, just like a New Service Colt or 1917 Smiff.

[justashooter]

one of my fovorite revolvers is a S&W 1915 originally made in 455, re-cut to 45ACP moonclips, or auto-rim. shoot one. put a "wondersight" on it, and you will understand.

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/wondersight/

[smkummer]

If you ever shot a 1989 625 5”, you wouldn’t be asking the question. A friend of mine has one and it shoots wonderful. At 57 years old, I am for having enough gun to do the job and not needing any more. 45 ACP in a revolver can do a lot except shoot as flat and as loud as .357. I would guess most here down load .357 for most shooting.

Of course if you still don’t find a reason to go with that in demand brass ( R-P or Starline?), that would probably trade easily one for one with .357 brass.

[DocSavage]

I have 2 625s and you couldn't ask for a nicer pistol cartridge combo to shoot. Have had many a person try them and were pleasantly surprised at how nice the 45 AR to shoot. Don't let the moon clip argument dissuade you it's the fastest reload I've ever seen.

[Rodfac]

If you don't plan to carry it as a CC gun, S&W's superb Model of 1955 Target would be a good choice...and assuming that you don't screw up the bluing, it'll be worth as much as you paid for it down the road. Mine is a pristine model, bought from a local dealer back in '88 for the paltry sum on $325...came new in the box, presentation case with all the tools too.

As a shooter, it's right up there at the top of the list...prefers 200 gr LSWC's of the H&G #68 style and cast from more or less pure ww's. 1" at 25 yds is the standard they set, and it'll do that with some of Sierra's 230 fmj's. It's trigger is old school S&W light and I've garnered a few 'possibles' at 50 yds with it, in my NRA Bullseye days.

Expensive? Hell yes, but worth it if you treasure a truly beautiful target gun, there are none better.

YMMV, but it'll do for me. Rod

[Ramjet-SS]

I just recently purchased a S&W TR 45 revolver purchased 500 rounds of rimmed 45 loading a Nosler 185 Gran HP just really enjoy shooting that gun and it is accurate.

[Rick B]

Buy a dual cylinder Stainless 51/2” Ruger Bisley 45 Auto, 45 Colt. Williams in Illinois has limited runs every year. Send the 45 Auto cylinder to Doug and have him shorten the back of the cylinder the small amount necesssary to accommodate rhe rim thickness Of the A.R. case. Then you can shoot 45 Auto, 45 Auto Rim and 45 Colt in the same revolver.

[ShooterAZ]

Mine is a 5" S&W Model of 1989. My favorite boolit for it is the RCBS 185 SWC BB. The bevel base is a bit of a pain to lube, but the boolit is so darn accurate in my gun that I don't care one bit. I load it over 4.5 gr of W231 in AR cases for a pleasant shooting, very accurate target load. I crimp for it using the Redding profile crimp die.

[Golfswithwolves]

Lyman's 452423 bullet is a good reason to have a .45 ACP/AR revolver. This thing has a HUGE meplat on it, and it looks like a flying beer keg.

[Dale53]

Buy a dual cylinder Stainless 51/2” Ruger Bisley 45 Auto, 45 Colt. Williams in Illinois has limited runs every year. Send the 45 Auto cylinder to Doug and have him shorten the back of the cylinder the small amount necesssary to accommodate rhe rim thickness Of the A.R. case. Then you can shoot 45 Auto, 45 Auto Rim and 45 Colt in the same revolver.

Rick,
I have a Williams SS Ruger Bisley .45 ACP/.45 Colt Convertible. I reamed both cylinders to .4525”, then had my local pistolsmith, Jack Basham, do a trigger job and Free Spin Pawl. It now shoots like a bullseye gun regarding accuracy.

However, instead of having the cylinder altered for the .45 Auto Rim, I just load up Starline .45 Cowboy Special cases for that purpose (I already had the cases). Of course, the cylinder alteration works perfectly well, also.

I must state, of course, that these Convertibles then become SUPERB all around (from mild to wild) revolvers.

FWIW,
Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

Lyman's 452423 bullet is a good reason to have a .45 ACP/AR revolver. This thing has a HUGE meplat on it, and it looks like a flying beer keg.

I just landed one of these Lyman 452423s at NCBS last week. I am having a lot of trouble talking myself out of a 45 ACP wheelgun. I did have a S&W Model 25-2 x 6.5" in the early 1980s, and it was a pleasure to reload and shoot for, though its throats were REALLY wide-cut.......on the order of .455"-.456". These days I know how to work around such issues--in 1981, I had just begun casting and had much less savvy, and got tired of mining the lead that coated the bore and throats when .452" castings transited wide throats and allowed lead crud to plate the bore. Jacketed bullets were an accurate delight, but a revolver that can't run castings doesn't stay around here for very long--so down the road it went.

I wouldn't mind finding either a "JM" or "TRR" Model variant. The Model 23s and 26s (and their non-numbered precessors) are WAY out of my price range on a fixed income. Truth to tell, the currently-produced S&W 45 ACP rollers are about as high as I can afford to go. I am not allergic to the Hillary Hole S&Ws, though I consider the lock a superfluous solution to a non-existent problem. The practical side of my mind tells me that a Ruger or Uberti convertible single-action (45 Colt/45 ACP) is a better and more stalwart platform for the venue. With any luck at all, the cylinder throats will be undersized and I can have Doug finish building the revolver via throating and end-cutting to fit the AR brass.

Which prompts a question--does the Blackhawk loading gate have sufficient clearance for the Auto Rim flanges? Also--Starline ad copy mentions the need to relieve clearances on cylinder ratchets to accommodate the 45 Schofield brass in the 45 Colt chamber of the Ruger Blackhawks and Vaqueros--does the 45 ACP cylinder need similar attention?

[Thin Man]

I have held an appreciation for big bore revolvers since the '60's. Probably the first I bought would have been a S&W 1917 (too long ago to recall) and I was hooked from then until now. These revolvers deliver reliability, power and accuracy (with appropriate loads) at minimal cost without ear splitting blast or shoulder separating recoil. Currently I have 7 or 8 of these in S&W 1917, Colt 1917 and Webley MK VI (cylinder was already shaved when it came my way). None of them are for sale, and I may add another one or two if they suit me. That last statement reminds me of the S&W 1917 a lgs had taken in to sell a few years ago. It was mechanically tight but had been refinished, the bore was totally smooth without rifling (original to the frame, same serial #) and appeared to have been polished inside, and it wore the finest set of stag grips I had ever found on a S&W N-frame. It came home with me for cheap money due to the slick bore. I planned to have another barrel reduced to 3", front sight replaced, and install it on this frame to make an "old school" belly gun when I found a vendor who was selling his last few new production 3" barrels (complete with front sight) for the S&W 1917. I bought one of those barrels and dropped it into the frame, indexed the sights and set the flash gap. At the range this revolver delivers groups on par with the 5" models. Yes, I love the 45AR brass that allows solid boolits or shot loads into the cylinder for versatility. I load the Speer 45 Colt shot capsules with #12 shot in this revolver when I travel to the deer camp as that area has it's own share of snakes. I find a lot to like about the 45AR brass and caliber and little to dislike. If I need to drive a bigger nail I pick up a bigger hammer. Used as designed the 45 auto/AR chambering has served us well for over 100 years and I find no fault in that.

[Rick B]

The only item that needs to be addressed in regards to converting a 45 ACP cylinder in a Ruger Blackhawk is the back of the cylinder face itself. Plenty of room for the rim in the loading gate and no issues with the ratchet. In the case of the cylinder I had shortened, your only dealing with removing .030+. Does not take much to convert one of these to 45 Auto Rim. This single action 5 1/2” revolver in a Ransom Rest will shoot very small groups at 50 yards with a M&P 200 grain hollowpoint and a load of Bullseye.

[NoZombies]

My 625-8 has convinced a number of people of their need for a revolver. It shoots almost any load into 1" groups at 25 yards, and does so without a lot of fuss, noise or recoil. I don't live in brown bear country, so I feel well armed with a .45 acp revolver on my hip in the woods.