Mould selection

[Knarley]

We had a very informative talk about bullet shape.
I know some don't have much time for "off the self" moulds. My question is what makes the "Custom" moulds so superior to the off the shelf ones?

KB

[marlin39a]

I've got the Lyman 458132 Postell. Weighs 538 grs with my mix. I'm not a competitor. Works great for me in my 45-110. No need for custom here.

[enfield]

what makes a Bugatti better than a Honda civic.

[indian joe]

We had a very informative talk about bullet shape.
I know some don't have much time for "off the self" moulds. My question is what makes the "Custom" moulds so superior to the off the shelf ones?

KB

Knarley
Yeah its been interesting eh .. so to stir the pot heres another question
What makes a Shilo sharps so superior to a Pedersoli that guys will pay three times the price and wait two years for delivery ?
I bet if those Shilo rifles were made in Fort Lauderdale Florida - the wait time would be way less and Pedersoli sales would increase - just something about that "Big Timber Montana" brand - heck even an Aussie would pay extra for that !!

So I have been tangled up in this boolit shape thing from the get go - didnt like it at all when I was told that LEE boolit that I like so much wouldnt shoot - so the argument has caused me to expend a lot of hours loading and shooting to investigate (thats good!) - of course my initial reaction was "what would these blokes know?" but then you look around a bit and say well maybe they do know something so lets check this out -- only way to do that is - think and shoot - think and shoot - no good doin one without the other. And the reason I was willing to do the thinking part was I came unstuck at a match where I thought I should have done ok - sighted in at home (done this two years in a row) match time we get half an hour for sighters (its a 500yard bullseye event) first sighter is in the black - dont need anymore (I have a policy of never practice at a match - why waste your best shots?) so by time we got down to it there was a stiff breeze blowing back up the gully to us - I came off the mound with a 32/50 and pissed with meself for it - the winner shot a 49/50 with a PP boolit, second was 44/50 - I should have shot low 40 or close anyway - and my rifle was not responding correctly to sight changes. So when the guys on here tell me that boolit is a waste because its wind sensitive - I listened (reluctantly) - its been my habit at home to shoot in as close to ideal conditions as I can - so I started to look for those tricky winds to shoot in - a few days back I went out and shot that LEE 459-500-3R in the wind - got my windage setting good enough to hit the target first shot and elevation was spot on - only fired five - guess what - three of em were tumbled as they hit - the dumb part of it was the group was decent (for me) - ten inches high and eight wide at 500 yards - I will take that all day and half the night! but it would look a lot better if the holes were round instead of oblong! Despite what the guys have said here that is the first time that boolit has looked unstable - so its gonna take more work to sort this out properly because I am not happy with something that dont work until I know for sure WHY it dont work - to that end I spent some time at the lathe modifying nose shapes on that boolit - that might tell me why - in amongst all this I shot a five shot string with the Lyman 458132 Postell that looked really good. Ordered two molds from Cast Bullet Engineering in Queensland this morning so that will add some more confusion to the deal.
Back to your question - custom vs off the shelf - I reckon its about the last little bit - some of which is reality and some of which is perception - extra care and attention takes time and costs .... a finickity old shooter might go the extra that a production machinist cant.

[Gunlaker]

I like custom molds because they generally produce a more round and perfect bullet. You can also customize the dimensions to suit your rifle.

I do like the way the Saeco bullets shoot though. Right now they are the only mass produced molds I use.

Most of my molds are Buffalo Arms, Steve Brooks, Paul Jones, and Hoch.

Chris.

[indian joe]

I like custom molds because they generally produce a more round and perfect bullet. You can also customize the dimensions to suit your rifle.

I do like the way the Saeco bullets shoot though. Right now they are the only mass produced molds I use.

Most of my molds are Buffalo Arms, Steve Brooks, Paul Jones, and Hoch.

Chris.

One of my mods to the LEE boolit is a nose shape as close as I could do to the Saeco 645, weight is similar, bigger lube grooves on the carcase of the LEE
Interesting there - I have a decent collet chuck for my lathe and I reckon I got a good straight grip on the back end of it - turning the nose down some of em (as cast) noses are not concentric to the base - that may be any of a number of things from casting too hot to not engaging the collet properly - if these turned nose boolits shoot good then more investigation is needed - if they still wobbly then we bin that idea and maybe the mold along with it.
The other mod is I simply just put a flat nose about the size of the moneyboolit nose onto the LEE - make the airflow at the front different - we will see in a few days - who woulda thought I would be hangin out lookin for wind to shoot in!

[BRUCE MOULDS]

"think and shoot"
what a good philosophy.
far better than to follow urban myth and so called common wisdom.
here is a short tale.
i wanted a pp bullet to patch to bore, all but the base 1/8" which patches to be a friction fit in the fired case.
i wanted an elliptical nose 1.5 calibres long.
contacting kal moulds produced a cad drawing to my idea, and i knew exactly what he was proposing.
i went into this with the intent of getting it perfect, and rick at kal knew that, so we made a mould that turned out a little smaller than optimum.
at my request he then made me a bigger one by 0.001, then another, 0.001 bigger again and a bit bigger on the base.
this was perfect.
only a custom maker can work with a customer in this way.
brooks will make the exact mould you ask for, so be sure to ask for what you want!
baco moulds are semi off the shelf and semi custom, and of excellent quality.
if you get what you want, a baco might be the last mould you need to buy.
all the above 3 produce moulds of virtually exact size and excellent roundness.
accurate has a good name, but no personal experience precludes comment.
then you hear about some guy that has a perfect lyman mould, but it took 4 to get one.
who has the time and money to go there?
if their moulds are as poor as their borescopes and dies they will make your head hurt.
finally, you can't learn to shoot in the wind unless you shoot in the wind.
and have an open mind.
keep safe,
bruce.

[NoZombies]

While you're working with your lathe and collets on those bullets, try drilling a hollow point cavity in a dozen or so and shoot them at distance. I can't say what that will do for you, but I can say that my experience tells me that you'll likely see a difference, either better or worse.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

221308
Here is the RCBS 325 gr. at 200 yards from my Shiloh .45-70,

221309
Here is a custom mould from Steve Brooks. 465 gr. same day.
Both groups were tested using a bench rest.

[Bent Ramrod]

It depends on what you want the rifle for.

An 1870’s soldier would not hit any more Comanche warriors if his ammunition was loaded with Postell or Creedmore design boolits rather than the 500 gr Government roundnose. A hunter would not get any more game at normal ranges with a fancy target boolit, either. I used a copy of the Ideal 457125 for several years at Gong matches with reasonable success.

Somebody loaned me a Paul Jones “Creedmoor” mould and I noticed that this boolit was more forgiving of mistakes on the windage screw and better in windy conditions than the 457125. Not by many hits, but always by at least a couple or a few. So why go to the effort of loading the case with expensive powder and topping it off with the 457125 when the Creedmoor always shot just a little better? No harder to cast, and only 20 gr more lead.

There have been a few false steps on the road to “Ull-timate Rifle Accuracy” for me as well. I cast a bunch of Lyman “Schmittzer” boolits one time that worked great in practice, and with regular Goex into the bargain. Now I could afford a lot more shooting and win matches on the cheap! I was disabused of this notion with the worst match score I’d ever fired. Total betrayal! But if I just wanted more or less casual practice, I might never have known. I also tried a “Money” boolit and found it shot a little worse than the Creedmoor. I was using the same soft alloy for the Money as the Creedmoor; have since read that if I’d hardened it up a bit, it would have pulled ahead. I’ll try this again when I’ve fried some of the other fish around here, but for now, the Creedmoor does fine with silhouettes, for me at least. And I don’t have to dink around with alloys.

Some of the custom designs have been worked out in wind tunnels (or calculations derived therefrom). Commercial moulds don’t have these shapes, because there isn't a mass market for them. But if the latest little difference in “r” on the nose means it’s easier to get a hit on a more distant target in worse conditions, those that can shoot up to these limits will buy the mould. For the rest of us, it might only be an extravagance.

So, what are you planning on doing with your rifle? For casual shooting out to 600 yards or so, the 457125 is fine. If you’re limited to 400 yards, the 457124 is fine. If you’re a competitor, or an experimenter, or an accuracy crank, you’ll eventually buy custom moulds.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The 457125 mould I had wouldn’t chamber in my Shiloh, the throats were too tight. I bought the Steve Brooks 540 gr. and it really makes my Shiloh sing and ding Rams at 550 yards and in. YMMV.

[Harter66]

For me the difference between production moulds , semi custom and custom is simple .
If I need a place to start then I turn to Lee , Lyman or RCBS for a standard . If it's a bulk non-precision type bullet such as classic pistol bullets the standards are good enough . Honestly the Lyman 458193 is the least fussy most forgiving bullet I've loaded , much less in the 45-70 . I also like the Lee 6s I can run a pile of bullets for my pistols and a rifle or 2 .

Semi custom well NOE and M-P fill the application .
NOE runs some standards with a tweek and at least on target whether paper or pork I can't see the difference between their 454424 and the Lyman single other that getting 5x as many bullets per pour for $35 more than new moulds for each . If you're working with a group buy at NOE or M-P you get options like the 301618 that was available and may still be as a 303618 . M-P also runs runs multiple dia and stock .

Custom . Now we're into Mountain Molds , LBT , and Accurate .
They have libraries and probably dozens more tools than the catalogue and the design tool is pretty cool . I needed a 350 gr .453-4 bullet to get what I needed out of a carbine . The problem was that the available moulds in 350 gr were either too long or were 459-462 . Mountain Moulds allowed me to create a 350 gr bullet with a bore ride nose at .448 , .453 bands with a .455 drive length and a .250 nose flat in a bullet that has enough "margin for error" to stabilize in the 1-32 twist I needed it to . It cost about the same as as 5 Lee doubles , 2 Lee 6s , and just a little more than the RCBS or Lymans and the same as a NOE 4C . The biggest thing is that it is a specific bullet that isn't really available and certainly not readily available with dimensions that fit my exact need .

As far as fixing a mould goes I have an RCBS 7mm168 that has a nose so skinny that if I size and seat just a little bit deep , for the bullet design, it is a fit for a 270 with heavy nose engraving .
Sure I have fussed with a few Lee's and I have 2 .380 RB moulds that are 380×379×370 ..... But they are generally heat cycle and go but what do you want for $20 .
The factory new Lyman was just barely big enough , like no wear margin I really needed it .459-60 and its . 4587 and it does seal up and doesn't lead so I guess it's just barely enough for now.
I have a sticky NOE too , not bad just a little and not always the same cavity .

The 40+ yo moulds never give me any trouble but I'm pretty sure if there was a problem it was fixed in some cases before I was born .

The difference between semi and full custom and production is simple .
It is the time and attention given to each piece . You get a 10-25% QC maybe 50% from Lee , Lyman or RCBS and probably 90-99% from NOE , M-P etc . The full custom pieces are touched at every step and if the machine the machinist doesn't feel or sound exactly right he can just stop and check it out . If it's not right he can fix it and make it 100% on every single cut on every single piece . A CNC machine can't do that and the guy that has to make a minimum quota per shift doesn't have time to gauge every cut . It's a wonder we get anything useful from 1 guy on 3+ machines that only red light for broken tools and -.001+005 spec fail .

[indian joe]

221308
Here is the RCBS 325 gr. at 200 yards from my Shiloh .45-70,

221309
Here is a custom mould from Steve Brooks. 465 gr. same day.
Both groups were tested using a bench rest.

Jack
I dont mean to be smart or insulting - but I believe both my rifles would do at least as well with the LEE 500 at 200yards as your Brooks mold group (rested of course) - where I get my butt kicked is further out and then only in windy conditions - seems to me there is a basic design problem thats having more effect than a mold quality problem. I reckon thats what you are seeing too - that Shilo is sayin it just dont like little short boolits.

[Knarley]

what makes a Bugatti better than a Honda civic.

My money is on my JEEP

[Knarley]

[QUOTE=indian joe;4379727]Knarley
Yeah its been interesting eh .. so to stir the pot heres another question
What makes a Shilo sharps so superior to a Pedersoli that guys will pay three times the price and wait two years for delivery ?
I bet if those Shilo rifles were made in Fort Lauderdale Florida - the wait time would be way less and Pedersoli sales would increase - just something about that "Big Timber Montana" brand - heck even an Aussie would pay extra for that !!

My 45-70 is a Pedersoli….221334

And my 38-55 is a Shiloh. (Bucket list gun)
Been working with both, and was just wondering what all the hoopla was about the high end moulds. After sizing they should be round. One would think any way. The Lyman moulds I have seem to cast nice looking boolits too. I'll never be shooting with the top dogs, so I guess it really doesn't matter. But thought perhaps I was really missing out on some thing important. A person can't learn if they don't ask now and then.

Knarley

[indian joe]

"think and shoot"
what a good philosophy.
far better than to follow urban myth and so called common wisdom.
here is a short tale.
i wanted a pp bullet to patch to bore, all but the base 1/8" which patches to be a friction fit in the fired case.
i wanted an elliptical nose 1.5 calibres long.
contacting kal moulds produced a cad drawing to my idea, and i knew exactly what he was proposing.
i went into this with the intent of getting it perfect, and rick at kal knew that, so we made a mould that turned out a little smaller than optimum.
at my request he then made me a bigger one by 0.001, then another, 0.001 bigger again and a bit bigger on the base.
this was perfect.
only a custom maker can work with a customer in this way.
brooks will make the exact mould you ask for, so be sure to ask for what you want!
baco moulds are semi off the shelf and semi custom, and of excellent quality.
if you get what you want, a baco might be the last mould you need to buy.
all the above 3 produce moulds of virtually exact size and excellent roundness.
accurate has a good name, but no personal experience precludes comment.
then you hear about some guy that has a perfect lyman mould, but it took 4 to get one.
who has the time and money to go there?
if their moulds are as poor as their borescopes and dies they will make your head hurt.
finally, you can't learn to shoot in the wind unless you shoot in the wind.
and have an open mind.
keep safe,
bruce.

Bruce
I have this terrible affliction - when something carks it at my place - I just have to pull it to pieces until I find where the smoke came from - identify the broken bit - can we fix it? - no! this thing is really stuffed! ....ok ..NOW.. we can bin it.
"so called common wisdom" has its place I think - ties to another of my philosophies - never forget the basics - we do that at our peril (I do it too often)
Anyway all this chasing of the rainbow has had me out there burning powder and thats always a good thing - I have fifty test loads to shoot in the next couple of days and that tricky little breeze is out there this morning. Just got the club newsletter yesterday and I am 5 points behind in the club aggregate so need to tune a muzzle loader in before sunday as well.
cheers
Joe

[indian joe]

what makes a Bugatti better than a Honda civic.

I thought Bugattis were extinct?

[rfd]

i messed around with production moulds for faaaar too long and for me, who's interested only in consistent accuracy as the bottom line. i finally ditched all of them in favor of a fair number of jim brannon (BACO) and tom ellis (accuratemolds) custom moulds. i can honestly say all the moulds before these were a waste of both time and money .... mostly time. a good custom mould will run $180/shipped or lots more, and the only exception will be tom's large block aluminum moulds for $81/shipped, they are superb. what's also important is that you get to work with the craftsman both before and after the mould is made.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

yes, both sizing and firing bullets makes them round.
but is the centre of mass on the geometric axis afterward.?
this is part of what you pay for with a quality mould, and is critical.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Knarley]

yes, both sizing and firing bullets makes them round.
but is the centre of mass on the geometric axis afterward.?
this is part of what you pay for with a quality mould, and is critical.
keep safe,
bruce.

I would have no idea how one would check geometric axis. I'm going to have to look it up to really know what it is, really. I am just scratching the surface of this type of shooting, and dropping $200.00 on a mould that "the gun doesn't like" is well, a bit daunting. I am no rocket scientist, by any means, but I do like putting one hole in a target after shooting a string. I know there is no "magic boolit" out there, but a guy would like to get close. And yes, I do enjoy the casting and assembly part of it all too.

[indian joe]

i messed around with production moulds for faaaar too long and for me, who's interested only in consistent accuracy as the bottom line. i finally ditched all of them in favor of a fair number of jim brannon (BACO) and tom ellis (accuratemolds) custom moulds. i can honestly say all the moulds before these were a waste of both time and money .... mostly time. a good custom mould will run $180/shipped or lots more, and the only exception will be tom's large block aluminum moulds for $81/shipped, they are superb. what's also important is that you get to work with the craftsman both before and after the mould is made.

I get you but the double money thing holds me back some - RCBS costs me almost $200 - Saeco lookin at $230 - $250 - Baco more again - they all listing outa stock or backorder on designs that interest me anyway - first order of business I need to figure out the why of whats going on otherwise I will just end up with a custom mold that repeats the same mistake.
I set my mark at 2MOA from my 76 Uberti - I believe I can get it - also believe I can not shoot 1MOA with iron sights no matter how good the rifle and load is - maybe that belief needs attention too?? Accurate molds looks attractive and I like working with aluminium molds so its likely thats where I end up - need to mess about more first though.

[rfd]

BACO lists almost all moulds out of stock, but contacting them will get jim building and inside of a month a mould will get made - been there and done that three times already.

tom takes between 2-4 weeks to build a custom mould. in both instances, these can be custom variations of existing mould models, so don't just think what you see on the website catalog is all that's offered. without a doubt, tom's accuratemold is a cheap but excellent way to start, and maybe even end without a need to look further. i have three of his moulds with a third on the way.

[Knarley]

Is there some reading material one could get to "educate" them selves with so one can make a reasonably good choice? A book or some thing?

[rfd]

prolly. then again, all of this stuff is fulla subjectivity and opinions, and rightly so.

when i was loading greasers for my .45-70's, i looked at bullet weight, alloy, cast diameter, shape, grease grooves and lube, as applied to rifle twist and distances to be shot. short 200 yard distances i use a 400 grain RN bullet with a meplat, medium distances to 600 yards is 480 to 500 grain RN with or without meplat, and over 500 grains and elliptical shape for distances far beyond. then it's off to do a buncha testing which includes bullet casting and all the parameters and components that make up a load. there is a valid starting point, however.

[Lead pot]

Knarley.

Just what exactly type of bullet do you have in mind? I have drawers full of moulds that I could start a retail store. Maybe if I knew what you have in mind I could cast some and send them to you to see if you can make them fly before you ordering a mould. Maybe we can meat if your not to far from I 90 west off of 35. I will be making tracks for Baker Montana I hope leaving Friday morning in the Gypsy wagon. I even might still have some cast.
Kurt

[Knarley]

Knarley.

Just what exactly type of bullet do you have in mind? I have drawers full of moulds that I could start a retail store. Maybe if I knew what you have in mind I could cast some and send them to you to see if you can make them fly before you ordering a mould. Maybe we can meat if your not to far from I 90 west off of 35. I will be making tracks for Baker Montana I hope leaving Friday morning in the Gypsy wagon. I even might still have some cast.
Kurt

Give me a shout when you get back. One of the ranges I belong to is in Kimball.

[indian joe]

yes, both sizing and firing bullets makes them round.
but is the centre of mass on the geometric axis afterward.?
this is part of what you pay for with a quality mould, and is critical.
keep safe,
bruce.

Bruce
Shootin in the breeze - more than a breeze - I was a contract sprayer for a while and you would be parked today - too windy for that - So I am shooting due south - wind is from the South west - I say around 15 to 25 km with some prolonged gusts in there would be a bit over 30km and its chopping around direction wise - swinging to the southeast at times - so after some foolin around and tempted to go home I knuckled down to it.
So this is the clipped nose boolit - the LEE 459-500-3R with a little flat nose turned on it about .215 across - length is reduced from 1.408 to 1.298 - its only ten or twelve grains weight reduction - a simple fix could proly be done at the bench with a file.
first at 300 to get sighted in then moved back to 500 - first three are low and right so a sight adjustment and I fired another six - the vertical was good at about 6 inches but the wind has strung me about thirty inches side to side - ( I didnt try to read it or make allowances just held centre and shot into whatever was blowing) so at that point I was quite happy - all shots went through nose first and the rifle was responding to sight changes - as well I had not lost hardly any elevation setting (trajectory was still good) - need to consult your wind chart for some comparisons - but pleased with that one and its easy - then to the second mod (saeco like nose) first off its hitting a meter or more low but ended up a waste of time - nothing you would call a group. forget that and it was a lot of messing round anyway.
So looks like the original "too pointy of a nose" call on this boolit was correct or airflow over the nose profile or something.
Tomorrow will shoot the sharps with clipped nose and pointy nose and somewhere down the track I will shoot for group in good conditions with the 76 just to see what we can get.
cheers
joe

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Jack
I dont mean to be smart or insulting - but I believe both my rifles would do at least as well with the LEE 500 at 200yards as your Brooks mold group (rested of course) - where I get my butt kicked is further out and then only in windy conditions - seems to me there is a basic design problem thats having more effect than a mold quality problem. I reckon thats what you are seeing too - that Shilo is sayin it just dont like little short boolits.
Joe, If we could ever get together we could shoot together. I shoot at the Upper Nisqually monthly matches in Eatonville, Washington and Rattlesnake 1,000 yard match’s in Washington’s Tri-Cites a could times a year. Usually a couple of guys beat me but I’ve taken a first place in a match and won first places on lines.

Check out my target pics posted on 8-4-17 on the Pedersoli Sharps Question thread post #25. And on the BP more Accurate than Smokeless thread post #5 on 7-1-2015.

The 200 yard groups I posted here were shot when I loaded my first batch of Steve Brooks 465 gr. boolits. There is no need to go back to the RCBS 325 gr. boolit and I’m not going to fool around with my chicken dies setting after fixing them to the 465gr. boolit.

[country gent]

One makers moulds you don't see often is Old West moulds bt Bernie Roweles. I have several of his 2 cavity brass moulds and they cast very good bullets and aren't priced to high.

[indian joe]

One makers moulds you don't see often is Old West moulds bt Bernie Roweles. I have several of his 2 cavity brass moulds and they cast very good bullets and aren't priced to high.

Boomers from up in Canada too - $C100 for a cast iron mold - his designs look ok - if he has got the machining sorted they are cheap

[BRUCE MOULDS]

as long as you don't get what you paid for.
keep safe,
bruce.

[indian joe]

as long as you don't get what you paid for.
keep safe,
bruce.

I dunno Bruce - hes a shooter - he has a couple of good testimonials from Venturino and Butch Ulsher - and some wins of his own in Canada - would certainly be worth further research before he was ruled out.

[indian joe]

Joe, If we could ever get together we could shoot together. I shoot at the Upper Nisqually monthly matches in Eatonville, Washington and Rattlesnake 1,000 yard match’s in Washington’s Tri-Cites a could times a year. Usually a couple of guys beat me but I’ve taken a first place in a match and won first places on lines.

Check out my target pics posted on 8-4-17 on the Pedersoli Sharps Question thread post #25. And on the BP more Accurate than Smokeless thread post #5 on 7-1-2015.

The 200 yard groups I posted here were shot when I loaded my first batch of Steve Brooks 465 gr. boolits. There is no need to go back to the RCBS 325 gr. boolit and I’m not going to fool around with my chicken dies setting after fixing them to the 465gr. boolit.

Yep took a look - suitably impressed - good shootin - you dialed in really neat - couple of questions 1) what size bull are you shooting on ? it looks a little smaller than I am used to 2) what are ya doin that makes the fresh shots look yellow ? they stand out pretty good.
heres my progress report
221420
first one is six shots with the LEE 459-500-3R as cast - steady wind from left to right two in the board at the edge - the group is not too bad - about twelve inches high x 9 wide - but three of em had the wobbles when they hit, 2 almost side on
221421
second one is five shot in the wind yesterday, blustery, switching around from head on to quarter on each way. LEE boolit with nose flattened to .215 - five shots here the unmarked hole in the centre is an old shot. All went in head first and pretty clean - vertical is ok - spread is wind. I reckon the high shot on the edge is cold barrel.
221422
third one is a three shot in bit better wind conditions yesterday - see how its switched across from l-r to r-l - this string is the last of twenty shots blowtube only - shooting with a 45/75 model 76 uberti lever rifle. We getting there slowly!

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Joe, the bull is 17 1/4” at 550 yards. Anything smaller and I’d need glass. The yellow on white paper is from taping the holes with making tape. I think that’s what your asking. The yellowish-green in the black bull is the way Shoot N C targets are made.

One secret to good shooting is to have the summer sun directly behind you in mid day. A low winter sun isn’t as favorable, overcast is right out. I wished I’d have taken up Sharps shooting with younger eyes, but I wouldn’t have had the patience for it.

[indian joe]

Joe, the bull is 17 1/4” at 550 yards.
Anything smaller and I’d need glass. The yellow on white paper is from taping the holes with making tape. I think that’s what your asking. The yellowish-green in the black bull is the way Shoot N C targets are made.

One secret to good shooting is to have the summer sun directly behind you in mid day. A low winter sun isn’t as favorable, overcast is right out. I wished I’d have taken up Sharps shooting with younger eyes, but I wouldn’t have had the patience for it.

Jack we agree on all counts
Size of bull Q We proly same size - I painted mine to regulation size - maybe your target board is a little different size OA - mine is a bit under four feet wide. Agree on the glasses ! I tried a 50 meter pistol target - could see it out to 300 but after that it vanished! The best 500yard I have had is I put a 20 litre roundup can out (yep 5 gallon) can see that with the sun behind me - its on clear red dirt - I put that out on a plowed fire break thats been drove over regular - on a calm day I can see every boolit strike from the dust cloud - no spotter required - and when I go to check it can see em in the dirt easy as pie - its the best systen for finding your range setting - trouble is I gotta call my neighbor and his share farmer each time I wanna use it - am going to put the plow into my own range strip hopefully can get it working in with the target.
We have that low winter sun here now - I am shooting with sun behind but when it hits the target face square I still have trouble seeing stuff clearly.
I got the taped holes (I do that same) it was the yellow in the black that has me intrigued!
I'm doing better in overcast than full sun - but we dont have the heavy cloud cover you guys get and you are further north than I am south
Why did we wait so long ? I had my sharps 20 years and done very little with it - (still a project) - part of that is its a carbine style - just over 8 pounds and it kicks the **** out of me specially in those prone matches - the uberti 76 is just on ten pound and its ok - I made a four foot bench that I stand behind to shoot - that helps a lot with recoil - and yeah now we cant see so good but we got the patience - cant teach an old dog new tricks they say - well I reckon we still can learn a few!!
I have been in your neck of the woods a couple of times - not so likely to return but if I do you might need to load a few extras !!:smile:

[rfd]

the new tom ellis slick mould arrived yesterday, $81/USD shipped, will cast with it today. should drop near 490 grains w/1:20, .443" diameter, 1.22" long, ,187" meplat, parallel bearing surface is a long .92". will get patched with fidelity 9#. looking to use it for 300-600 yards. review to follow.

221459

221460

[indian joe]

the new tom ellis slick mould arrived yesterday, $81/USD shipped, will cast with it today. should drop near 490 grains w/1:20, .443" diameter, 1.22" long, ,187" meplat, parallel bearing surface is a long .92". will get patched with fidelity 9#. looking to use it for 300-600 yards. review to follow.

221459

221460

Looks pretty tidy! I like his adjustable screw to hold the sprue plate down flat - thats clever -- keep us posted hey!

[rfd]

i honestly think tom's moulds are a huge bang for the buck. it's also an absolute pleasure to cast with a big block aluminum mould. i can attest to their accuracy and used his 45-405P for winning 200 yard matches. i used a wad stack, to boot ...

221465

[Chill Wills]

i honestly think tom's moulds are a huge bang for the buck. it's also an absolute pleasure to cast with a big block aluminum mould. i can attest to their accuracy and used his 45-405P for winning 200 yard matches. i used a wad stack, to boot ...

221465

What is the nose length of that bullet? It looks to be 0.6 or 0.7 calibers.

[rfd]

the width as it drops with 1:20 is .443, the width in the below drawing is listed as .451

221517

[Chill Wills]

the width as it drops with 1:20 is .443, the width in the below drawing is listed as .451

221517

Okay, I am not a bad guesser!
The needed info is on the print - thanks. The nose is 0.65 of a caliber.

"the width as it drops with 1:20 is .443, the width in the below drawing is listed as .451"
Sorry to confuse. One way to talk about and understand nose lengths is to describe them in caliber.
You may find it somewhat challenged for "300 to 600yds". compared to other bullets you could use.

[rfd]

actually, mostly interested in 300, but a bonus would be out a tad farther. i do have the JM443530E.

[Chill Wills]

That would be a very good bullet design to any range. Improvements to that are splitting small differences.

[rfd]

indeed it is, and for good reason.

221535

[yulzari]

I thought Bugattis were extinct?

https://www.bugatti.com/home/

[indian joe]

https://www.bugatti./home/

nah it wont work mate nose is way too pointy fer a start - and theres fins on the back end of it - the base needs ta be flat and smooth - alloy composition is all wrong they need to cut back on the antimony % and somehow they got a heap of carbon fibre mixed up in the melt - and that red lube its smothered in eeeeerrrk - no good fer blackpowder that stuff -----nah mate that thing will never fly .... 200 ok maybe 300 but past that ? its gonna tumble in flight fer sure ...........