Made Ingots out of wheel weights today

[wendyj]

221081221082

I got some wheel weights today and they were mostly zinc and steel, and some even some sort of plastic. Out of 5 gallons. Looks like I am going to have to buy lead from rotometals or somewhere. This was a lot of hot work for what little I got. Not that I minded. Just hot. There was a purple ,pink and orange hue on top of the pot I melted them in. Took hours to get most of it off and there is still small amount of coloring in the two pictures I hope you can see. I fluxed it 3 times with candle wax first and Lizard litter next two times. I am going to order a bottom pour pot I think. Will this pot not let the heavier lead stay at the bottom and keep impurities out of my bullets or have I been reading the manual wrong. Also would like to know what those colors of sludge were on top. I know I'm asking a lot of questions but there are experts on here that know more than what I read.

[lightman]

You really need a separate pot to smelt in. Smelting dirty lead, be it wheel weights or whatever, is a good way to cause a bottom pour pot to leak. The colors you are seeing are usually associated with softer lead heated to higher temperatures. Browse through the lead and lead alloy threads and look at what members are using for smelting pots and head sources. You can also buy lead in ingot form in the swapping and selling section. Try fluxing the lead that you are smelting with pine sawdust first. It seems like the rosin that is in pine works better than most other things. I doubt that any pot will let the lead separate. You will enjoy casting with a bottom pour pot. It sounds like you are off to a good start. Don't let the learning curve dampen your enthusiasm too much! We've all been there.:D

Edited to add;
Don't give up on wheel weights. Just be mindful when buying them that there will be more and more junk. Wheel weight alloy is still my favorite alloy to cast with. Sure, new Llyman #2 straight from the foundry is a joy to cast with! Learn to sort wheel weights and watch for bargains.

[dikman]

What he said. DO NOT put anything except clean lead in a bottom pour. I smelt range scrap (in a half propane tank) and even after I've washed it first it's amazing how much crud comes off when it's melted. It doesn't matter how much I flux it there's always dirt that comes up when I stir it so I never try and use the last little bit, that stays there until next time.

[MyFlatline]

Also take extra time to sort. If in doubt on a WW , use some side cutters. The will tell you if it is lead or zinc/steel. Keep your temps around 700 and no more, sounds like you got it pretty hot. It is a learning curve.. Best of Luck.

[wendyj]

I was only going to mold bullets out of the new pot. Just old ss skillet for melting junk like this. Keep or throw these away.

[Echo]

The purple was lead oxide, formed faster by high heat. The other colors indicate other oxides, but you didn't mention gold, which is tin oxide. Like to see some of that on top of the melt - to be fluxed back in, of course.

[wendyj]

221143I said orange hue I think but melting it again today it was gold as could be. I cast some with it but I e got to get some real casting equipment 4 inch ss saucepan and bent soup spoon not doing the trick. Ok to try but I need 20 lbs of lead from rotometals and a good pot. Having hard time deciding whether to ladle and cast or get a bottom pour. I see the Lee bottom pour on Amazon but don't see the guides to hold the die underneath. I got wrinkles sprue cuts and half filled cavities. My fault from what I was using. Shiny bullets. Frosty bullets. I didn't treat my mold sprue cutter correctly as I saw Elmo do on you tube this morning. The die is cheap but will work until I can get a Lyman or RCBS and handles with six cavity. I just bought cheapest using my reward points to give this a shot. I'm not giving up because as bad as I e done so far I'm enjoying trial and error.

[bangerjim]

ALWAYS...............ALWAYS pre-heat all your molds to FULL casting temp (not just warm!!!) on an electric hotplate for perfect drops from the 1st pour! Otherwise you are wasting your time trying to heat up the mold with pouring Pb. I have been using an electric plate for years to pre-heat molds and also feed ingots for my casting pot. Saves a lot of recovery time when casting. Forget the old school method of sitting the mold on the edge of the casting pot. Not reliable and waaaaaay too slow for me, anyway.

Shiny boolits. Frosty boolits. Who cares! They all shoot just the same. What you do NOT want are boolits partially formed or hollows on/in the bottoms.

Shiny boolits are only good for bragging pictures on here!

The Technicolor rainbow you see is just what pure Pb does with it gets too hot. No harm done. Too hot will cost you a good deal of Sn you have in there, so keep the temp within reason, and use beeswax (ONLY) to REDUCE the Sn back in during your casting session.

bangerjim

[wendyj]

I appreciate the answer. I don't know what the abbreviations are for PB and SN. I fluxed with candle wax but not beeswax. I also after about ten duds heated the mold with a torch. May not have been good idea. Don't know but it was casting all wrinkled bullets to start with.

[frkelly74]

Casting can be art or science, and frequently falls somewhere in between. I tend toward the artistic end. Your bullets look to be perfectly serviceable, just sort out the very worst looking ones to remelt. I do not see any obvious worst ones in your picture. Do you plan to tumble lube them? What are you sizing them to? Or are you going to shoot them as cast? I would suggest making some dummy rounds just to see if they will chamber as cast. If they will then you are go for shooting some up to see how they do. I can send you a bottle of LEE ALOX lube. It is what I started with and have not needed to switch to anything else.

[wendyj]

Not sure what lube yet. Testing about 10 in some pan lube I had very little stuff to make. Just experimenting. My Henry likes .452 and these size out .454. I'm going to order a sizing die, thermometer and whatever pot I can set my mind too sometime tonight. I read a lot about the Alox lube and tumble lube seems the easiest. I would load a pan lubed bullet and try a few shots but don't want to mess up my rifle with bullet oversized that much. My rifle slugged at .451.04 best I can remember so I've used .452 laser cast with good results. Got to order lead also. Lead is going to be my biggest cost from what I see. I'm going to order about 20 lbs to start with from rotometals unless I find some cheaper on here. My wheel weights were ****. 5 lb bucket and I got 1 1/2 lbs of ingots. Rest was trash. I'm thinking a 20 lb pot is too big for the amount I will cast. Maybe not. I'm figuring 100to 150 a month to shoot. I keep looking at the Lee bottom pour verse the ladle pour but undecided. I can't find the bottom pour with bracket to slide the mold across except in the 220 volt unit. Am I incorrect in thinking after fluxing good lead that impurities will stay at top while I'm pouring. Nothing I've read says any difference in ladle pour verses bottom other than speed.

[dikman]

From what I can see those look pretty good. Pb is the chemical name for lead, Sn is tin. If you get things too hot the tin will start separating out (looks like porridge floating on the lead), if that happens use a small piece of beeswax (better than candlewax 'cos you never know what else is in it), melt it on top and stir.

I started off like you (stainless saucepan and ladle) and it worked fine for muzzleloaders, but once you start shooting pistols and need lots of ammo it's a bit slow! I generally just pour into the mold, let it sit to absorb the heat, empty out whatever formed and repeat two or three times. By then the mold is usually hot enough to start casting (works for me with aluminium and brass molds). If you lube the pivot point of the sprue cutter be careful not to get wax into the cavities, and smoking the cavities can help - but so far they look good.

[dikman]

You posted while I was writing :D. I've never regretted buying a bottom pour (I have two) as it just makes it so much easier to cast, imo, but 150 a month isn't many to cast using a ladle. You can buy better mold supports, make your own or just do what some do and stick a block of wood underneath to support the mold.

[wendyj]

Never though about a block of wood. Would work great. What would I do without this forum. I will probably only shoot 150 a month but no reason not to stockpile while lead is still being sold. I'm sure DC will try to interfere with that also. Am I correct in assuming most impurities after fluxing will remain on top if I bottom pour. I haven't got into reading enough about it yet but I'm sure the pot needs a good cleaning after a casting session. I've used white brush on drill to clean ss pots. I doubt that's possible with a good pot.

[bangerjim]

From the questions and replys I am seeing from you......you REALLY need to read www.lasc.us article “from ingot to target” at the top of their home page. The best source for simple questions. And no so simple questions!

Download a chemical periodical table and study it to learn what we use on a daily basis.

The is net is an amazing source of info......you just need to look.

Lube is the “stuff” ( ALOX, grease, PC) you put on the Pb boolit to let it go down the barrel without gualing and leaving Pb deposits (“leading”) in that barrel. You have to dig it out when that happens. All cast boolits must have a lube of some type. FMJ’s do not.


Bangerjim

[wendyj]

I downloaded it today. I'm aware of lube and leading from commercial cast I've bought. I just haven't decided how I'm going to lube yet. May powder coat. Lots of decisions to make and a lot to buy. Was cheaper buying cast commercial but I'm enjoying doing this. My range is down for 3 months and I've loaded all my brass but have tons of bullets left. Only thing I have brass left for is 223-9 mm and the 45 which is my favorite rifle. I bought thousands of rounds of 5.56 and 9 mm during Obamas terms. I don't save a lot of money loading 9 mm or 5.56 but I do it anyway. I am just trying a new hobby that I'm giving a try. As far as the 45 I still have around 900 cast from Rimrock and Lazercast so I'm good on bullets but want to make my own. If I'm asking too many questions I will just read and figure it out.

[OS OK]

Not sure what lube yet. Testing about 10 in some pan lube I had very little stuff to make. Just experimenting. My Henry likes .452 and these size out .454. I'm going to order a sizing die, thermometer and whatever pot I can set my mind too sometime tonight. I read a lot about the Alox lube and tumble lube seems the easiest. I would load a pan lubed bullet and try a few shots but don't want to mess up my rifle with bullet oversized that much. My rifle slugged at .451.04 best I can remember so I've used .452 laser cast with good results. Got to order lead also. Lead is going to be my biggest cost from what I see. I'm going to order about 20 lbs to start with from rotometals unless I find some cheaper on here. My wheel weights were ****. 5 lb bucket and I got 1 1/2 lbs of ingots. Rest was trash. I'm thinking a 20 lb pot is too big for the amount I will cast. Maybe not. I'm figuring 100to 150 a month to shoot. I keep looking at the Lee bottom pour verse the ladle pour but undecided. I can't find the bottom pour with bracket to slide the mold across except in the 220 volt unit. Am I incorrect in thinking after fluxing good lead that impurities will stay at top while I'm pouring. Nothing I've read says any difference in ladle pour verses bottom other than speed.

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[toallmy]

Your not asking to many questions , take your time and you will get the hang of it . The problem just getting started is you really don't know what questions to ask .

[BrassMagnet]

In this same section of the forum is a thread on bullet casting DVD videos. Here is a link:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?361517-Any-interest-in-Bullet-Casting-DVDs

They will answer many of your questions and there is no cost to you.

[frkelly74]

I routinely keep my ingot mold under the spout to catch the inevitable drips that happen. I am using the 6 cavity molds mostly now. I have a wood block under the ingot mold to raise it up so I can rest a bullet mold on the top of the ingot mold. Then I insert the mold so that the first hole is under the spout and drag the mold out as the cavities fill leaving a one piece sprue to cut off and put back in the pot. I find it convenient to wear those OVE GLOVES to catch the sprue which is hot and just put it back in the pot. This would work with any mold I would think.

[wendyj]

My issue is melting pot. Im OK with cast iron and ss pot but not deep enough. I've looked at the 4-20 and drips won't bother me. Other pot was the 20 lb melter and Lyman ladle. I e got a 6 quart Dutch oven that hasn't been used in 20 years but that seems kind of big considering my luck of finding lead at any decent cost. Roto metals is right at $75.00 for the first 20 lbs I would like to buy. I bought welding gloves and have glasses to wear when casting. Already burnt a few fingers without them. So what I'm looking to buy is a pot, thermometer, and a good ladle anyway. Still have to buy a sizing die and lube. I think my cart is around $200.00 right now. That's with 20 lbs of lead from roto metals. I was up until 4:30 this morning putting one pot in and taking it out and adding a different one maybe ten times as I was reading reviews and watching videos. Seems most videos are 99% bottom pour pots. I guess my main concern is cleaning the pot after use and the adjustments on the bottom pour.

[BrassMagnet]

My issue is melting pot. Im OK with cast iron and ss pot but not deep enough. I've looked at the 4-20 and drips won't bother me. Other pot was the 20 lb melter and Lyman ladle. I e got a 6 quart Dutch oven that hasn't been used in 20 years but that seems kind of big considering my luck of finding lead at any decent cost. Roto metals is right at $75.00 for the first 20 lbs I would like to buy. I bought welding gloves and have glasses to wear when casting. Already burnt a few fingers without them. So what I'm looking to buy is a pot, thermometer, and a good ladle anyway. Still have to buy a sizing die and lube. I think my cart is around $200.00 right now. That's with 20 lbs of lead from roto metals. I was up until 4:30 this morning putting one pot in and taking it out and adding a different one maybe ten times as I was reading reviews and watching videos. Seems most videos are 99% bottom pour pots. I guess my main concern is cleaning the pot after use and the adjustments on the bottom pour.

Decent metal is usually about $1/lb in Swapping & Selling.

[BrassMagnet]

My issue is melting pot. Im OK with cast iron and ss pot but not deep enough. I've looked at the 4-20 and drips won't bother me. Other pot was the 20 lb melter and Lyman ladle. I e got a 6 quart Dutch oven that hasn't been used in 20 years but that seems kind of big considering my luck of finding lead at any decent cost. Roto metals is right at $75.00 for the first 20 lbs I would like to buy. I bought welding gloves and have glasses to wear when casting. Already burnt a few fingers without them. So what I'm looking to buy is a pot, thermometer, and a good ladle anyway. Still have to buy a sizing die and lube. I think my cart is around $200.00 right now. That's with 20 lbs of lead from roto metals. I was up until 4:30 this morning putting one pot in and taking it out and adding a different one maybe ten times as I was reading reviews and watching videos. Seems most videos are 99% bottom pour pots. I guess my main concern is cleaning the pot after use and the adjustments on the bottom pour.

Leave an inch or two in the bottom to start your next session easier.

[wendyj]

I finally broke down and took the plunge on a Lee Pro 4-20 and a rcbs thermometer plus a Lyman ladle from Midway. Hoping I made the right decision on the bottom pour pot. Now I just need to find some lead to use when it gets here next Friday. If anyone thinks I got the wrong one please advise as I can cancel this order since Midway is closed for today. Thanks all for putting up with all my questions. If I don't see another you tube video from Fortune Cookie 45 for a few weeks I may get my mind back. I've watched every review and video for 2 days watching this thing work.

[toallmy]

You did fine and will be pleased with the package , I see you posted a want to buy lead - don't get to caught up in the hardness at first a lot of fine boolits are cast with range scrap , and wheel weights . There is a member here ' well more than one ' that sells lead look up the captain .

[toallmy]

Get the videos from brass magnet it's sorta a lending library , after a while you pass them on to a new caster just starting out .

[bangerjim]

If you cannot find all the Pb and alloy you need locally (like I do) buy it ON HERE from the fine members that offer it! Don’t buy commercial Pb or alloy unless that is your absolute last choice. You WILL pay a lot more. PLUS shipping many times.

Do NOT trust Pb and alloy from Ebay! Heaven only knows what is in there! You CAN trust the folks on here.

[wendyj]

Just got a message from Alan in Vermont. He has some at 1/2 of roto metals

[44magLeo]

On looking for lead, tell your friends and co-workers. They may have leads you can track down.
A friend from work was talking about making weights for the back of his pick up. A relative of his works at a school bus garage and had several 5 gallon buckets of bus wheel weights. My friend melted one bucket down and poured it into channel iron to make strips of lead about 4 feet long. I swapped him a couple rifle scopes and a bit of cash for his lead. About 94 lbs.
Makes great boolits.
So ask around, you never know when you can score.
Leo

[toallmy]

As mentioned above just pick up some from members here to get you started , then spread word that you are looking for some lead and it will appear from the strangest places , the next thing you know you will be worried about wear to store it .

[dikman]

Don't empty the pot completely unless you need to clean it. I keep mine at least half full when I've finished casting.

[solman]

You did good with the 4-20 pot, lots of us here are using it including myself. Bottom pour is the only way I cast and isn't a problem for most once you get a rhythm going. Get your lead from the swapping and selling on this site as others have mentioned. It's already smelted so just put it in your Lee pot and you are good to go if it's in the BHN range you need. You can add some tin or Lino as needed also available in the S&S section.

[OS OK]

You did good with the 4-20 pot, lots of us here are using it including myself. Bottom pour is the only way I cast and isn't a problem for most once you get a rhythm going. Get your lead from the swapping and selling on this site as others have mentioned. It's already smelted so just put it in your Lee pot and you are good to go if it's in the BHN range you need. You can add some tin or Lino as needed also available in the S&S section.

<<< 'Bubbie' said your avatar is cool!

[KCcactus]

I keep a stainless steel condiment cup fro W-mart under the spout of my 4-20 to catch drips.

I used Lee alox for a long time, but recently switched to Ben's Liquid Lube. BLL works great and is much less sticky. You can find the recipe here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259285-NEW-!-!-T-L-Liquid-Lube Alox is one of the ingredients. I made mine with the Lundmark wax.