Lyman Foster slug test part 1

[Blood Trail]

Part 1 of Lyman Foster slug testing. These slugs are infamous for being inaccurate due to it being undersized. To counter this, I wrapped each slug with Ballistic Products thick Mylar wrappers to snug it up in the bore for a tighter fit. I also filled the base of the slug with hot glue to keep the skirt from collapsing.

The components I used were X12X gas seals and 3/8” hard fiber wads for each load. The powders used were 800X, Herco, and IMR 4756.

I noticed that some of the hulls were difficult to extract, especially with 800X and there were signs of over pressure on the head stamp.

I concluded that I should have reduced my powder by a few grains to account for the extra weight the glue added. I also noticed that my scope mount rattled loose, too. I should of been more cautious on my crimps.

Consistent crimps are key to accuracy.

https://youtu.be/xC-ZW78oWo4


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[dsh1106]

Looking forward to part 2.

Do you think these would have the same results using a rifled barrel?

[longbow]

Yup! Those slugs cast small. My mould casts ar 0.705".

I strongly suspect that this is intentional and was originally to suit the rifling swage kit that Lyman (Ideal?) used to sell. By swaging grooves into the slug lands will raise up so bring the slug closer to bore diameter.

A fellow had one of those swages for sale a few years back and I almost wish I had bought it but didn't mostly because I think the Lyman Foster is too thin all over so even if accuracy could be obtained it still isn't a good slug design in my opinion.

The only way I got decent accuracy from my Lyman Fosters was to paper patch with brown shopping bag paper to get them to bore diameter. That worked not bad but I got fliers probably from patches hanging on or wads pushing into the cavity as I was not glue filling. Glue filled and paper patched should work reasonably well.

Your Mylar wrap is a good idea and likely going to leave the slug better than paper. From your video it looked like those slugs were flying stable as the holes looked round so that is good too.

Did you cast from soft lead or alloy?

Looking forward to Part 2 as well!

Longbow

[gpidaho]

I patched up some foster slugs using printer paper, two wraps, and filled the HB with hot glue. I haven't made it out to the range to try them yet. The county range I shoot at is way too busy weekends and holidays so I'm going to wait until things settle a bit but will post after I try them. I just purchased a new Caldwell Lead Sled that holds two 25lb. barbell weights. That should tame things a bit. Gp

[Blood Trail]

Looking forward to part 2.

Do you think these would have the same results using a rifled barrel?

Not sure, but I’ll give it a try.


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[Blood Trail]

Yup! Those slugs cast small. My mould casts ar 0.705".

I strongly suspect that this is intentional and was originally to suit the rifling swage kit that Lyman (Ideal?) used to sell. By swaging grooves into the slug lands will raise up so bring the slug closer to bore diameter.

A fellow had one of those swages for sale a few years back and I almost wish I had bought it but didn't mostly because I think the Lyman Foster is too thin all over so even if accuracy could be obtained it still isn't a good slug design in my opinion.

The only way I got decent accuracy from my Lyman Fosters was to paper patch with brown shopping bag paper to get them to bore diameter. That worked not bad but I got fliers probably from patches hanging on or wads pushing into the cavity as I was not glue filling. Glue filled and paper patched should work reasonably well.

Your Mylar wrap is a good idea and likely going to leave the slug better than paper. From your video it looked like those slugs were flying stable as the holes looked round so that is good too.

Did you cast from soft lead or alloy?

Looking forward to Part 2 as well!

Longbow

LB,

I used pure lead. No keyholes on any hole on paper. I’ve looked around for that swaging die for these with no luck so if you stumbled across one, let me know.

I called Lyman about that swage die and the lady acted like I was speaking German. She said she wasn’t aware of any accuracy issues with the slug casting under sized. I suspect she don’t know what she’s talking about.

I’m looking into getting some of those plastic balls like the Federal’s. Something that will widen that HB a little when fired.


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[Blood Trail]

I think I’ve found a possible solution to the truball ball in the hb:

http://www.plasticballs.com/nylon-plastic-balls.html


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[longbow]

Now, I would have sworn I posted this link earlier but I must not have hit "Post Quick Reply"... or it was another thread, or I am getting early dementia. Wait... what was I saying?

Anyway, on the swaging up bit... SluggerDoug posted his solution with the Lyman slug here some years ago and with pics on ShotgunWorld (scroll down):

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=132184

I can believe this worked once the slug was bore diameter. However, even if accurate it is still a thin walled, thin nose slug cast out of soft lead so of limited use if penetration is desired.

Longbow

[GRUMPA]

I heard (read) that those were designed for the fold crimp and not the roll crimp. I watched the video earlier, and that kind of accuracy to me anyway is the opposite of blow.

I just load mine in a wad, my accuracy is far better than what I saw on the video. I hate to see minute of pie plate accuracy at 50' with anything I do. I do use a rifled barrel though, and I use B-Dot exclusively in my slug loads.

[Blood Trail]

I heard (read) that those were designed for the fold crimp and not the roll crimp. I watched the video earlier, and that kind of accuracy to me anyway is the opposite of blow.

I just load mine in a wad, my accuracy is far better than what I saw on the video. I hate to see minute of pie plate accuracy at 50' with anything I do. I do use a rifled barrel though, and I use B-Dot exclusively in my slug loads.

These where my very first time loading and shooting these slugs. Maybe I’ll run them out of a rifled barrel next time.

Unless I read the manual wrong, I believe it called to be roll crimped, but it was 2 o’clock in the morning. For sure, I’ll get more consistent crimps if I did fold’em.

This is just a baseline. Everyone’s standard of accuracy various from reloader to reloader. At 50 yards with a smoothbore, 2-3” is my standard. With any one of my rifled shotties, 2-3” at 100 yards gets the nod.

I’m curious to know what wad you use that fits in a hull without cutting petals. Care to share?[emoji57]


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[Blood Trail]

As for powder, I cast about 10-15 different slugs and round balls. I have 5 dedicated slug guns and they all favor their own powder, depending on the slug.

I’ve got quite a bit of ProReach that I wish there was more data on. I really like that powder from the limited amount of reloading I’ve done with it.

I use BD, Steel, 800x,and Longshot a lot. I’ve only about about 14 lbs of 4756 left so I’m trying to stretch that out.

I’ve had great results with green and red dot with BPI LBC slugs.

Seems my 20 ga slug guns likes Herco with a couple different projectiles.


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[longbow]

I'm thinking they won't do well out of rifled barrel unless they swell up evenly... and swell to fill to bore they do if cast from soft lead but, the recovered slugs I got showed that nose and skirt were tilted different on every slug I recovered and since they were recovered from deep snow it wasn't impact damage. The slugs obturated to fill the bore from as cast 0.705" to fill my Browning BPS bore.

I was told by an old timer that the secret to making those slugs shoot well was to put a copper washer under them so they had a hard face that wouldn't give so the slug would expand to fill the bore evenly. I tried that and it did not work for me. I abandoned that slug. I don't like the mould and I don't like the slug so...

My view is that if the slug is going to swell to fill the bore anyway then it may as well start out at bore diameter.

I'd get the mould machined to cast to bore diameter but I have so many other slug moulds it isn't worth the effort. In fact the Australian Denver Pile Driver is cast in a modified Lyman Foster mould bored out and beefed up. The taofledermaus video showed those to fly rather well. Lyman could learn a lesson.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

I'm thinking they won't do well out of rifled barrel unless they swell up evenly... and swell to fill to bore they do if cast from soft lead but, the recovered slugs I got showed that nose and skirt were tilted different on every slug I recovered and since they were recovered from deep snow it wasn't impact damage. The slugs obturated to fill the bore from as cast 0.705" to fill my Browning BPS bore.

I was told by an old timer that the secret to making those slugs shoot well was to put a copper washer under them so they had a hard face that wouldn't give so the slug would expand to fill the bore evenly. I tried that and it did not work for me. I abandoned that slug. I don't like the mould and I don't like the slug so...

My view is that if the slug is going to swell to fill the bore anyway then it may as well start out at bore diameter.

I'd get the mould machined to cast to bore diameter but I have so many other slug moulds it isn't worth the effort. In fact the Australian Denver Pile Driver is cast in a modified Lyman Foster mould bored out and beefed up. The taofledermaus video showed those to fly rather well. Lyman could learn a lesson.

Longbow

Denver sent me some of his copper machined slugs. Man, those things are pretty! I annealed them to soften them up.

I was talking to Uncle D a few months back about the issue he was having with his copper swaged slugs only engraving on one side. I asked if he annealed them first and he saiid he didn’t. I bet that’s the key, although I had good groups with them.

Once he finds time, I’m sure he’ll anneal a few for giggles.


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[dsh1106]

Yup! Those slugs cast small. My mould casts ar 0.705".

I strongly suspect that this is intentional and was originally to suit the rifling swage kit that Lyman (Ideal?) used to sell. By swaging grooves into the slug lands will raise up so bring the slug closer to bore diameter.

A fellow had one of those swages for sale a few years back and I almost wish I had bought it but didn't mostly because I think the Lyman Foster is too thin all over so even if accuracy could be obtained it still isn't a good slug design in my opinion.

The only way I got decent accuracy from my Lyman Fosters was to paper patch with brown shopping bag paper to get them to bore diameter. That worked not bad but I got fliers probably from patches hanging on or wads pushing into the cavity as I was not glue filling. Glue filled and paper patched should work reasonably well.

Your Mylar wrap is a good idea and likely going to leave the slug better than paper. From your video it looked like those slugs were flying stable as the holes looked round so that is good too.

Did you cast from soft lead or alloy?

Looking forward to Part 2 as well!

Longbow

I just purchased one of these Lyman Foster style molds from Ebay, it arrived a couple days ago and finally had a chance to cast a few. My mold is really undersize if you guys are getting .7xx plus, mine drop from the mold at .689-.691ish.

I put one of these in a Fed12S3 sitting on a 20ga nitro card, it measured .735 - .737

It wouldn't push through my rifled barrel but I was able to "tap" it through.

Scott

[gpidaho]

Scott: I just put the mic to a few wads I have on hand and measured up the petal about 3/8th of an inch. My 12S3s are the Downrange substitute and measure .024 as does the WAA12 (white) The Western WT12 is .023 the WAA12114 (yellow) is .022 and the Claybuster 1100-12 (pink) is .021. You're almost there Maybe just a different wad. Good luck. Gp PS Got the 662 RB mould in. If you need a few let me know. Also an approx. BHN you need.

[gpidaho]

Just checked my Foster 12ga. slug. Sadly it measures .707 so too small and too large all from one mould. LOL Gp

[longbow]

Yup! that seems to be the standard size range. Too big for shotcup and way to small for bore. I'd be inclined to get the mould bored out to suit your barrel, either bored straight and leave a bit of a shoulder or have 3 or 4 driving bands bored to suit your barrel leaving "lube grooves".

Buckshot posted a pic of a mould he did that way with 4 bands IIRC.

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Longbow: Being pretty new to this I'll ask. Does it help any at all if you tighten the choke on a Foster slug or is it hopelessly rattling down the bore and just too late by the time it reaches the constriction? Gp

[longbow]

I honestly do not know... but I suspect the damage is done before the slug reaches the choke. My enlightenment came after recovering quite a few soft lead Lyman Fosters from deep soft snow. Every one had a different shape ~ noses were cocked slightly and skirts were uneven.

I may have posted this here or in another thread but an old timer (former poster here) told me that the secret is to use a hard wad column with a copper washer on top so the slug is forced to obturate evenly. It did not work for me. The solid wad should ensure the slug obturates as much as possible but it is still a rattle fit in hulls and bores so I find it hard to believe you can depend on the slug being dead center in the bore and swelling up to fill it evenly.

I think the whole point is that if the slug does obturate to fill the bore (which they do) then why on earth wouldn't you start out with a slug that fit the bore? Better to be slightly large and swage down that small and swell up I think.

Try paper patching but slit the paper part way like wad petals to ensure the paper opens up and releases. My paper patched Lyman Fosters worked pretty well but I still got too many fliers.

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Two wraps of copy paper got me to the right fit for a cylinder 12ga.choke. I went the other direction and glued the paper on so it wouldn't come off (maybe) and filled the HB with hot glue. Only loaded two so not much lost if nothing breaks. Haven't made it out to the range with them yet. I'm going to have to quit guessing and go shooting here soon. Gp

[longbow]

I've tried the "stay on" paper patching but it gets shredded in the bore so has a rough uneven surface. For me it didn't work. Better to shed the patch I think but smoothbore shotguns are not BP paper patch rifles so there is no rifling cutting patches and "confetti" at the muzzle. I think the patching has to come off cleanly much like a sabot. The other issue is that the patch has to survive rubbing on a rough hull, opening a crimp and the jump through the forcing cone.

Personally I think a full bore slug or a wad slug like the Lyman sabot slug and the Lee Drive Key slugs are the way to go. In the end the fit is an issue. That's why I decided to size down my Lee Drive Key slugs so I could then patch back up to snug fit for a specific bore diameter. So far the sized paper patched Lee slugs seem to be doing reasonably well but they need more testing.

Longbow

[dsh1106]

Scott: I just put the mic to a few wads I have on hand and measured up the petal about 3/8th of an inch. My 12S3s are the Downrange substitute and measure .024 as does the WAA12 (white) The Western WT12 is .023 the WAA12114 (yellow) is .022 and the Claybuster 1100-12 (pink) is .021. You're almost there Maybe just a different wad. Good luck. Gp PS Got the 662 RB mould in. If you need a few let me know. Also an approx. BHN you need.

I guess I must have lost my mind yesterday, trying to push the slug/wad combo through a rifled barrel????

I'll give it a try today using my smooth bore.

UPDATE - Using the same components and these push through my cylinderbore barrel at just shy of 10# pressure.

Scott

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Once you wrap it tightly and tuck the overhanging 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch into the base cavity, it will stay there till it leaves the muzzle and then it will unwrap. I like to keep things simple, paper patching like this where the slug locks-in like this:
https://i.imgur.com/yjZi7z9.jpg
The length of the paper will determine the OD of the slug so measure it and see how many wraps you need.

The Lyman foster slug measured .705 too big for a shot cup and too small for a snug fit.
We all gave $100 for a mold with handles untill Lee showed up, they were smarter and gave service at 1/5 the cost.
https://i.imgur.com/JylPNHz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uLXzBA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/J90IpBu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1dsUfAF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Pt8uk7g.jpg
The base cavity pins from Lee can be had for $1.5 each alter the pins and experiment ! !
https://i.imgur.com/wFZxBZD.jpg

Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[gpidaho]

Nope Ajay, nothing so elaborate. That patch looks like it might have a chance. I'd like to post a picture once in a while even just for a good laugh but sadly I'm pretty much a computer "Tard" I just used a very small dab of super glue, did two tight wraps and glued the ends together then filled the HB with hot glue. Only made a couple and they are loaded. Not much lost. Will move on to the next bright idea soon. Gp

[gpidaho]

Dang it Scott, you're goin' to shoot an eye out. LOL Sometimes I have to shake my head and go "What was I thinking" Gp

[Blood Trail]

I have an idea. I have heat shrink various thickness. This stuff is tough and some has an adhesive made in it that bonds with the material once heated. I’ll heat shrink a couple slugs and measure the OD.

[dsh1106]

I have an idea. I have heat shrink various thickness. This stuff is tough and some has an adhesive made in it that bonds with the material once heated. I’ll heat shrink a couple slugs and measure the OD.

Awesome idea, almost like the Teflon jackets they had on the 9mm ammo back in the mid 80's.

I bet you could size those up to fit any bore you wanted.

I know there is some heat shrink available that gets pretty hard afterward installation.
SIDE NOTE: This is the stuff we used on the military jets where two tubes would cross and needed to be protected from ware.

Scott

[Blood Trail]

I know there is some heat shrink available that gets pretty hard afterward installation.
SIDE NOTE: This is the stuff we used on the military jets where two tubes would cross and needed to be protected from ware.

Scott

Exactly what this is.


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[Blood Trail]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180604/1a4ffcfb1d1ce2356d25c0987b5f3890.jpg

Measures .730 and .735


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[dsh1106]

I would hope this helps the accuracy, are you planning on using a nylon ball in the back, or are you just filling it with caulk/wood putty/hot glue? or just a hard card ?
Can't wait for part two video using these !!!!

Scott

[a danl]

i also use lyman foster mold slugs and i expand them to fit the bore dia. fill with beeswax and the next wad i lube with melted borebutter witch they will soak up like a sponge . you will not get leading. works very well

[a danl]

i use a section of an old 12ga barrel witch is bore dia. and i compress them into the bbl and they come out bore dia. not hard to do accuracy greatly improved

[Bob9863]

I like that wrap job, I have been thinking about trying that with my Lee slugs do I can shoot them without a shot cup.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Bob, if your barrel is a smooth bore first check by pushing it back wards from the muzzle to check for a fiction fit for accuracy and if you have a choked barrel then too check for fiction fit at the muzzle where the choke constriction is. It should require 6 to 10 lbs pressure to push it through.
Always use a good OP wad with longer skirts for far better obturation.
https://i.imgur.com/CBR4vF5.jpg
I personally like the Powder Cup OP wad but then it has double cup shape and needs to be filled up:
https://i.imgur.com/5o6QUbv.jpg

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[W.R.Buchanan]

3M is the source for the good Heat Shrink tube. There is 2:1 shrink and 3:1 shrink. Typically the 3:1 has the glue in it. I use the stuff alot.

Randy

[longbow]

Well if that heat shrink tube gets the diameter of the Lyman Foster up to bore diameter then it may be worth getting my old mould out and trying it. Before I ever cast with that mould again though I will be polishing the core pin. It looks smooth but there is little taper to it and it sticks badly, always has. It is a pain to cast with.

Paper patching with thick paper helped but I still got fliers. My assumption was that the patch was getting torn by rough hull interior, crimp or in the forcing cone ~ jumping the gap can't be good for a paper patch. It could also have been poor patch release from slug too. The patch isn't going to get shredded the way a BP rifle patch does.

That heat shrink tubing is a great idea if it stays on and stays intact. Even if the Lyman Foster was usable that way I'd still thicken the nose and skirt some.

Hah! I didn't notice before but Ajay has already tried those plastic gas seals with the hole in the middle. When I saw those I immediately thought Brenneke! Ajay obviously thought the same thing and beat me to it some years ago it seems. Oh well.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

Well if that heat shrink tube gets the diameter of the Lyman Foster up to bore diameter then it may be worth getting my old mould out and trying it. Before I ever cast with that mould again though I will be polishing the core pin. It looks smooth but there is little taper to it and it sticks badly, always has. It is a pain to cast with.

Paper patching with thick paper helped but I still got fliers. My assumption was that the patch was getting torn by rough hull interior, crimp or in the forcing cone ~ jumping the gap can't be good for a paper patch. It could also have been poor patch release from slug too. The patch isn't going to get shredded the way a BP rifle patch does.

That heat shrink tubing is a great idea if it stays on and stays intact. Even if the Lyman Foster was usable that way I'd still thicken the nose and skirt some.

Hah! I didn't notice before but Ajay has already tried those plastic gas seals with the hole in the middle. When I saw those I immediately thought Brenneke! Ajay obviously thought the same thing and beat me to it some years ago it seems. Oh well.

Longbow

I use those gas seals with the hole in it (Me and Uncle D call them doughnut wads) to center my rb’s in the mold.


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[CANUCK]

I have already inquired at my local machine shop about milling this mold out to my bore diameter (about .729" - .730") and they said it was easy to do.
Does anyone foresee any issues and what would be the weight increase?

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you guys fit your slugs directly to the bore dia do understand they will have to be lubed or they will lead the barrel like crazy. The thing about running these in wads is the wad acts as the lube. You could also powder coat them like we do for the rest of our Cast Boolits.

I just saw a Lyman Slug Swaging Tool for sale on Ebay for swaging the lands onto Lyman Foster Slugs The guy was proud of this artifact and wanted $200 for it, which I think is ambitious, but it looked to be in perfect shape.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lyman-12-gauge-rifled-slug-swaging-tool/173613174727

Does Lyman still make this tool? Has anyone looked?

Randy

[Cap'n Morgan]

If you guys fit your slugs directly to the bore dia do understand they will have to be lubed or they will lead the barrel like crazy. The thing about running these in wads is the wad acts as the lube. You could also powder coat them like we do for the rest of our Cast Boolits.

I never used any kind of lube on my slugs since I never had any problems with leading. All my slugs have been about .728 in diameter. Even with the low pressure in shotguns I think gas cutting is causing leading if the slug is not tight in the bore. I also think my injection molded wads - also oversize - helps keeping the bore free of lead and a smooth bore is no doubt less prone to leading compared to a rifled bore.

Now, about slugs and bore fit: I have just taken a Polish made slug shell apart; The slug is a rifled hollowbase with helical fins, much like the Brenneke, but the wad is not attached to the slug. The slug is swaged from what seems to be pure lead. Total weight of wad and slug is 1-1/8 ounce and the diameter is large! .736" Most European bores are between .720 and .724 so quite a bit of swaging going on here... Pics to follow.

[tomme boy]

No they do not. I wish someone would though. The broach cut for the rifling is the problem. Unless that part is a 2 or 3 piece die set. You could have the rifled part. Then the base could be separate to form the base however thick you want. You just stack the dies.

[W.R.Buchanan]

tomme: It would be broached the same way some Allen Head Screws are broached. IE; short runs of specialty screws that the volume isn't large enough to justify a Cold Heading machine's time.

A hole is drilled to the minor diameter and then the broach is introduced and the chips roll into the bottom of the hole. Sometimes they are left in the bottom of the hole, other times you run the drill back in to break the chips out.

The aluminum part on the left in the picture was broached on my lathe with a rotary broaching tool, the one on the right is Stainless Steel and was sent to a broaching house. In both cases due to the size of the hex (1/8") the chips were smashed into the bottom of the holes and left there as there was no cosmetic point to removing them, you see this alot on Set Screws.

On a larger part like the Lyman Tool they would be removed. Reasonably sure that operation would have been sent out to a Specialized Broaching House rather than done in house.

Randy

[CANUCK]

If you guys fit your slugs directly to the bore dia do understand they will have to be lubed or they will lead the barrel like crazy. The thing about running these in wads is the wad acts as the lube. You could also powder coat them like we do for the rest of our Cast Boolits.
Randy

Just for argument sake say the full bore slug does lead the barrel.
I forgot to mention in my earlier post what I was thinking in regard to a possible leading issue.
When milling the mold larger why not leave a small section near the top of the shoulder alone effectively leaving a lube groove?
If the mold casts .705" and it was left alone in a section and enlarged to make .729" in the rest you would have 0.024" difference so a groove depth of 0.012" to fill with bullet lube.
May this work?

[longbow]

Not sure why leading would be any more of a problem, if as much as, in handgun or rifle since shotgun pressures are lower and gas cutting shouldn't be an issue since there are gas seals and/or multiple wads. If a guy used an bore size or larger soft lead slug I can see leading being a problem if there is no lube but there is also no reason not to put lube grooves on a shotgun slug... or knurl it then lube... or use a lubed felt wad under.

So far I haven't had any leading issues but then I use wheelweights or range scrap for pretty much all of my RB's and slugs whether they are bore diameter or wad slugs.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Not so much with round balls as the actual bearing surface is close to a line around the ball.

With Cylindrical slugs it's a different story. You have a substantial bearing surface which is going to rub all the way down the barrel. The problem won't come from gas cutting, it will be from friction literally melting the outside of the slug. Powder coating might help but really there needs to be some radial grooves around the thing like grease grooves.

Or maybe that's another reason why Rifled Slugs have raised lands on them? I will be picking Brenneke's brain at SHOT in a couple of months.

Now,,, I see Full Bore Slugs working just fine in a Rifled Barrel as long as the fit is right and there is some kind of lube involved. With the amount of lube involved there might be problems with it melting and contaminating the powder in warmer temps and that's why I think the PC might be a better option.

Then we are back to the .73 cal rifle so whatever works for other rifles will probably work here too.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

Not so much with round balls as the actual bearing surface is close to a line around the ball.

With Cylindrical slugs it's a different story. You have a substantial bearing surface which is going to rub all the way down the barrel. The problem won't come from gas cutting, it will be from friction literally melting the outside of the slug. Powder coating might help but really there needs to be some radial grooves around the thing like grease grooves.

Or maybe that's another reason why Rifled Slugs have raised lands on them? I will be picking Brenneke's brain at SHOT in a couple of months.

Now,,, I see Full Bore Slugs working just fine in a Rifled Barrel as long as the fit is right and there is some kind of lube involved. With the amount of lube involved there might be problems with it melting and contaminating the powder in warmer temps and that's why I think the PC might be a better option.

Then we are back to the .73 cal rifle so whatever works for other rifles will probably work here too.

Randy

The only time I had leading from shotgun slugs was when wads were pushing into the hollow base, and forcing the slug open, the slugs were even lubed. Last year I ran 50-100 full bore slugs, the Accurate 73-770S with ZERO lube. No wax, no tumble lube, and the light leading wash there was came out with an oiled patch. This was through a rifled gun. I highly doubt any lube can get past the substantial wadding that we use in slug reloads. Nothing used in shotguns is worse than the sloppy lubes used in muzzleloaders, and just a thin card or felt wad solves all problems there.

[tomme boy]

The raised ribs are to give the lead somewhere to go as it is swagged through the choke. That's it. No other purpose.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Longbow

Trust me; gas cutting is a very real phenomena even in shotguns.

Back in the seventies we used to shoot clay targets using the cheapest shells we could find. They were all of the felt wad type and they would cause an awful lot of leading right after the forcing cone where the pressure and heat is at its highest (and velocity is still quite low). We used to scrub the barrels with rolled spring brushes, resting the muzzle on our boots - and when you were finished there would be a small pile of lead on top of the boot.

An old skeet shooting pal of mine had tested some VERY cheap Polish shells with shot #9 on paper. Some of the shot had actually been fused together by the leaking hot gas as witnessed by the irregular holes in the paper. With modern shotshell plastic wads this is no longer a problem, but the gas leaking is still there. Often the wads have small channels to allow air to escape when being pushed into the shells during manufacturing, these channels prevent the wad from sealing completely when the shell is fired. Like the gas bleed holes in a semi-automatic it is hardly noticeable on the muzzle velocity, but it's there. I have also noticed that adding a x12x seal under the wad will increase muzzle velocity quite a bit. This, I believe, is because the seal helps to confine the pressure better than an ordinary felt wad in the first critical milliseconds before the payload starts to move into the bore.

[Blood Trail]

Here’s some 770 Accurate mold full bore slugs I lubed and the groups they shot at 50 yards. Never **** them without so I have nothing to compare it to. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181123/541a0e1313138b7e2e329930c0d28e07.jpg

NOTE: can’t find the pic of the groups. I posted it before here awhile back, but all three shots where touching at 50.


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[bikerbeans]

BT,

Them slugs look familar and my shoulder aches looking at them.

BB

[longbow]

Cap'n Morgan:

I believe there is gas leakage but with plastic gas seals it should be minimal. I've never seen any significant amount of leading even with unlubed full bore slugs. I tend to use wheelweights which doesn't tend to "rub off" like soft lead which is where I believe most leading in shotguns comes from.

I won't argue that there is much more gas leakage using card and fiber wads. In fact, I tried using old shotcups I had laying around after cutting gas seals off for use under full bore slugs. I thought I'd try a couple of nitro card wads over the powder like old timey loads then card card wad then shotcup with wad slug. Recovered wads were shredded!! Petals were black and melted. I was quite surprised at the result to be honest. Goes to show that the old loads must have used more powder to generate same pressure with all that leakage.

I have not tried the card wads over the powder under full bore slugs so no experience there and maybe that would result in some leading. I can believe there is enough gas leakage that the slug becomes the final seal so there leakage could lead to gas cutting.

Just not something I've had any problems with. Had lots of others though!

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

BT,

Them slugs look familar and my shoulder aches looking at them.

BB

Very similar to the ones you sent me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181123/c8723a450b3c5350390f6458af615474.jpg


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[longbow]

BT:

I'm hoping you are keeping a database of your load recipes! And are willing to share!

You've been loading and shooting a wide variety of slugs with many being much heavier than most slug loading data covers.

Unless a guy uses heavy shot load data for equivalent payload load data is sparse for heavy... or for that matter light (non-standard) slug weights.

I keep whatever load data I can find that may be useful for slugs.

Just saying...

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

I try to. That’s why the first thing I do is take pics and post it. Have about 2 years worth of load development got washed out when I left it on the back of my truck during a storm, I had to come up with a backup plan. [emoji2]


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