Reloading Cast Boolits issue

[Bait O' Eggs]

Having several issues, they may stem from the same thing, there may be several things I am doing wrong.

First I am new to cast boolits, throw in a new Hornady Lock and Load progressive press coming from a Rockchucker single stage press, and trying to work the bugs out thru the process. There is a lot going on with the AP press, I seem to go slow while I try to keep an eye on each station each stroke.

I am casting boolits from a Lee mold, 124 grain 6 cavity mold. Powder coating them with Harbor Freight red powder, #5 tub shake, 20 minutes in toaster oven at 400 degrees and sizing them thru a 0.357 Lee sizer. Whole process seems pretty easy.

I just got the new press set up and about every 5th shell doesnt like going in the resizing die #1 position, If I dont reach around there and help guide the shell into the die, it likes to eat them. Not sure how when the case is in the holder, the spring is in position holding the case, and it is facing up, the case doesnt go perfectly straight into the sizing die.

https://i.imgur.com/F9xgGJT.jpg

As the shells work their way around the circle, all goes well until i get to the bullet seating die. My other pistol dies are RCBS and I have never had a problem, but I have only used store bought components in my rockchucker. I am experiencing two items in the bullet seating die. I am using a Hornady custom grade dies, (Hornady 546515) there is a floating bullet guide on this die which I have never used before. My cast boolits tend to get stuck in the die and I have to drill them out. Something like one in 40 boolits get stuck. I have tried using some lube in the die, it doesnt seem to last long and I find myself back on the drill trying to unstuck the boolit. Maybe I need to lube the boolits before seating them, so it is there each time when I need it.

https://i.imgur.com/QTIipL5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/b3dWczp.jpg

The next issue with the bullet seating is some of the loaded shells have a shaved ring of lead boolit and powder coating on the case.

https://i.imgur.com/vUujdnS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jORyyIH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rLZS9a7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yhFkm1H.jpg



Maybe I am not enlarging the case mouth enough to receive the boolit?? Maybe they are not going in straight?? But one in 10 boolits have a little shaved lead ring around the mouth of the brass, the other 9 look perfect. The brass case seems to be cutting the cast boolit. I measured the mouth of the brass case after going thru the expander die, and I am about 0.010 larger after the expander die than before. Maybe more enlarging will quit shaving some boolit off, and the boolit will go in the case and not stick in the die??

Looking for suggestions on what I am doing wrong, or how to fix it.

[243winxb]

Sticking in seating die.
Bullet diameter can be a little big for the Hornady sleeve? RCBS doesnt have or need a sleeve.

Shaving- the seat die may remove the .010" bell/flare to soon. I have opened the inside diameter of a die to correct this.
Brass of different trim lengths may add to the problem.
Again, bullet diameter may add to the issue.

Newer sizing dies in the last 10 or 20 years have a bevel to help guide the case mouth into the die. The alignment may be off, if like a Dillon progressive?? SPRING touching brass?

RCBS makes "Cowboy" dies for lead bullets, but no 9mm.

I have an old Dillon, so not much help.

[Oily]

Don't know about your boolit sticking issue but you are correct on the boolit shaving issue you need more flair on the brass to let the boolit start. Iam not schooled on progressive presses but you will probably need a Lyman "M" die to expand and flair the brass so you don't swage your boolits down when seating. Don't know if you have enough die stations to do this. Maybe someone knowledgeable can chime in on the progressive press part. 9mm is not the easiest cartridge to load for

[243winxb]

Taper crimp- just try to remove the bell/flare , to much and it may shave lead. Adjust the taper crimp die on the longest trim length brass of the lot.

Its best to seat and crimp in separate operations, using an extra taper crimp die.

[ChuckO]

Walk before you run. Start with one case at a time and work it through all of the stations. Then work out the problems one at a time.

First check that I would make for the resize die is that the shell plate is indexing into position correctly. The index pawls on the bottom of the ram might not be indexing sufficiently for the ball detent to position the shell plate correctly.

I use Hornady's Powder Thru Expander for 9mm to expand the case properly and put the flair in during the powder drop. Proper adjustment of the amount of flair allows me to position the bullet starting in the case mouth.

The bullet seating works well for me with the Hornady die. As long as the bullet is within the case mouth there is no interference with the bullet guide. Check to be certain that the bullet will go through the guide without any interference by hand when there is no case involved. If a case does not have enough flair to accept the bullet then seating might cause some lead shaving which will jam the bullet guide. Too much flair will stress the case and also cause the case to jam in the seating die. Also, make certain that you are using the proper seating plug from the die set. The flat seating plug might cause the bullet to start crooked and jam up.

Get the seating finished properly and then crimp in a separate step.

There might be some videos available to help you.

Take it slow and work through each step individually before trying to tie it all together.

C

revised to remove reference to some deleted youtube videos.

[TaylorS]

I did the same thing to half a dozen brass of each caliber when I bought the Lee progressive I just had to make sure I had the keepers that keep the case centered on the shell plate and it stopped doing that. As far as the PC maybe size PC then size again? You are expanding case mouths when seating correct?


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[nvbirdman]

Rimless cases for semiautomatic pistols take quite a beating when they are being chambered. You can get small burrs on the rim and extractor groove which prevent the case from entering the shellholder (or shellplate) all the way. A quick twist through your fingers (or better yet a cotton ball) should reveal any burrs and help pinpoint your problem. As for a solution to your problem, I'm not sure, but at least you would know where the problem is.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. :drinks::drinks:

After loading 50 or so rounds one at a time, a guy has to go let the progressive press do its thing and feed it. My stuck boolit or shaved ring happen in either scenario, just much slower when letting one round go at a time. ;-) Loaded around 500 round so far thru the AP press.

I will try to enlage the brass neck a tad more with the expander so I know the boolit will be received by the brass.

I suppose the stuck boolit in the die, could be a shaved ring left in the die from the previous round creating the sticking issue. Maybe by getting rid of the shaved ring with a larger opening on the brass, the sticking problem goes away????? :veryconfu

I will watch the sizing die tonight closer and try to figure out why the cases done want to go in straight. A little spilled powder in the case holder area might be keeping them from standing straight??

Certainly a lot of points on the circle for things to go wrong.

[HangFireW8]

I have the eariler Hornady ProJector. I found the Lee dies have a larger radius at the bottom than my Hornady's. Also the points already made about rim burrs and complete seating in the plate.

On the stuck boolit... I don't powder coat, and this is one reason why. You have to do some kind of quality control on both your boolits and your coating. With conventional lubes just the former, and that QA check occurs at sizing. If it is too hard to size, it is too thick. If it whiffles through easily, it is too small. I just set those aside for remelt.

[lancem]

I had the same problem with the sizing step on my LNL. Bought a Dillon 9mm dies and never looked back. The Dillon die has a much more flared opening, I load thousands of 9mm using a case feeder and boolet feeder and it's just click click click now. Defiantly need more flair on the case to stop the boolet shaving, on 9mm I don't worry so much about perhaps over flaring the case as typically the rim gets too chewed up to use or the case is lost before I get split necks. Another thing that might help with that is using a separate crimp die, that way if the case is a little long it won't shave as the seating/crimp die crimps while still seating the boolet. Just some of the things I've done that have worked for me. What ChuckO said about the pawls is a could be, my experience with them causes priming issues, if you do think you want to adjust them, mark them first then move them only the slightest amount, a little bit makes a big change, and the darn things can break easy when you get them out of wack!

[USSR]

Maybe by getting rid of the shaved ring with a larger opening on the brass, the sticking problem goes away?????

No, maybe getting rid of the Hornady dies. Mine does the same thing with cast bullets. Will never own their dies again.

Don

[fredj338]

I don't see any flare on the case mouth. With lead bullets, ya gotta get the case mouth opened up to accept the bullet. I think an M style expander is best but the PTX, adjusted right, will do a fine job. Definitely use a separate taper crimp die.
The sizing thing, your timing pawls may be off, one of the major issues with the LNL imo. Back to the instructions on how to tune the pawls, get them set right & the crushing during sizing should stop.

[fredj338]

I have the eariler Hornady ProJector. I found the Lee dies have a larger radius at the bottom than my Hornady's. Also the points already made about rim burrs and complete seating in the plate.

On the stuck boolit... I don't powder coat, and this is one reason why. You have to do some kind of quality control on both your boolits and your coating. With conventional lubes just the former, and that QA check occurs at sizing. If it is too hard to size, it is too thick. If it whiffles through easily, it is too small. I just set those aside for remelt.
One reason I size all my cast/coated bullets, for uniformity.

[PaulG67]

Try using your RCBS dies in the Hornady machine.

[Bait O' Eggs]

The only 9mm dies I have are the Hornady I just bought with the press.

Since it wont cost me anything to flare the neck more, I will try that tonight, if the boolits keep getting stuck in the die, which by the way is a PIA to get out, and I keep getting shaved lead rings, I will get a different set of dies and try that.

I know I have a few bugs to work out, it wasnt obvious the Hornady dies might be the problem, they still have the shine on them.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Expanded the case necks quite a bit more, and the first two casings thru the press, had a brass ring cut off the case, where I was getting a lead ring from the boolit before. Didnt go so dramatic on the flare, and after 30 rounds looking perfect, I went from single case per round, to full AP loading. Around 150 rounds loaded before I ran out of cast boolits. No more rings cut from the boolit or the case, so I am hoping some neck expanding adjustment remedied that issue. No more boolits stuck in the seating die.

I am still having issues with the first stage, 1 out of 3 +/- of the cases just dont stand straight to go in the sizing die.

https://i.imgur.com/mZJaSxc.jpg

I can reach in there and touch it each time and get it straight, but that is kind of a PIA. I checked; correct shell plate, I tried a new spring on the plate, shell plate was tight, I havent found a way to remedy the shell cases that dont go in the sizing die straight. A bit confused why the cases dont like this stage. I am shooting once fired brass I bought. Maybe I try a different batch of brass???

[gpidaho]

Just me and my personal thoughts but I've been mad at Hornady and their equipment ever since I purchased one of their Apex shotshell presses about twenty years ago. I can't even remember what it was I was mad at the Ex-wife about (same time frame) but that press still makes me mad every time I hear the name Hornady. LOL Gp

[Soundguy]

I agree with the other, check case alignment, also check case mouths for large bends that happened upon ejection. Check the diameter of your PC boolits. That sleeve in that hornady die is likely the problem. Add a little more bell on the case mouth.

[Cherokee]

I've never even looked at a Hornady progressive but something is really wrong for the case to be that cockeyed in the shell plate. The case doesn't even look like its fully inserted into the shell plate. Flying blind here but is there a case feed mechanism or do you inert them manually ? With your other problems solved, focus on the process of getting that case fully inserted into the shell plate. Wish I could help more.

[lancem]

It appears that the case isn't fully in the shell plate. Are you using a case feeder? Seems to me mine was doing that at one time long ago, it was a case feeder issue, not pushing the case all the way into the shell holder.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I am using a cases feeder, and the cases are all the way into the shell holder. The one pic of the leaning case is extreme, most of the time it is tipped out just enough to barely catch the edge. But they are always tipped out, not tipped in. Reading and researching on the internet it seems this is a common Lock and Load issue. :cry::cry::cry: The shell holder has enough slop in it where the base of the case sits to allow the case to slop around, and not be held tight enough. When the spring is pulling on the outside of the case, the slop allows the case to lean enough where it wont go into the sizing die. Spring tight on the outside bottom of the case, and slop on the shell holder on the inside of the case and it leans out. Common solution seems to be to stretch the spring a little so it doesnt fit so tight. :holysheep more sophisticated solutions is to machine some of the bottom of the shell holder off so the slop goes away, but then the cases dont feed as well.

I will try to stretch a spring a bit tonight and see if the cases stand straighter with not so much pull on the bottom outside. Knowing my luck I will break 3 or 4 springs because if a little bit is good, a lot must be better :redneck:

[ghh3rd]

Another proponent here of sizing after powder coating. Powder coating does add a very measurable difference to your boolits.

[MyFlatline]

Sounds like you have the shaving solved but if you have more issues , check out NOE. THey have expander plugs for a range of sizes. I have the LNL AP and have not been all that happy. Lot's of money to sit idle. Best of luck.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Trying to post a video of the case feeding into the sizing die, I justs cant quite get the case to stand straight enough to go in the sizing die, other than that it seems to be working fine. I continually have to reach in there and stand that case up a little bit so it feeds into the sizing die. Rather than buy a different die with a larger mouth, I may open up the mouth on this die a little.

Hope the link works.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPANr5qtt6z0Iztc8kt7KYVi9vd1AKdb4MtIB_9[/VIDEO]

I do have to say the Lock and Load requires a lot of tinkering to keep it feeding.

[fredj338]

The only 9mm dies I have are the Hornady I just bought with the press.

Since it wont cost me anything to flare the neck more, I will try that tonight, if the boolits keep getting stuck in the die, which by the way is a PIA to get out, and I keep getting shaved lead rings, I will get a different set of dies and try that.

I know I have a few bugs to work out, it wasnt obvious the Hornady dies might be the problem, they still have the shine on them.
It is not the die but the setup. I have a set of 44mag dies, work fine with lead bullets, just give the case more flare. The Hornady seating die is one of the best with the floating nose punch, helps keep the bullet straight.

[fredj338]

Expanded the case necks quite a bit more, and the first two casings thru the press, had a brass ring cut off the case, where I was getting a lead ring from the boolit before. Didnt go so dramatic on the flare, and after 30 rounds looking perfect, I went from single case per round, to full AP loading. Around 150 rounds loaded before I ran out of cast boolits. No more rings cut from the boolit or the case, so I am hoping some neck expanding adjustment remedied that issue. No more boolits stuck in the seating die.

I am still having issues with the first stage, 1 out of 3 +/- of the cases just dont stand straight to go in the sizing die.

https://i.imgur.com/mZJaSxc.jpg
I can reach in there and touch it each time and get it straight, but that is kind of a PIA. I checked; correct shell plate, I tried a new spring on the plate, shell plate was tight, I havent found a way to remedy the shell cases that dont go in the sizing die straight. A bit confused why the cases dont like this stage. I am shooting once fired brass I bought. Maybe I try a different batch of brass???

Ok stupid question, do you have the correct shell plate installed? The case should never do that. I am not sure, but is there any adjustment for the slide that pushes the case into the shell holder? My buddy started on a LNL, he has modified a bunch of stuff to get it running well, he is a machinist. He still has it but bought a 650 & just goes & goes.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Shell plate #8 for 9mm installed on unit. if you watch the video linked you will see it just barely doesnt go in the sizing die usually.