.357 mag, 170 gr Kieth, 2400 powder

[Catpop]

I need a good powder gr. starting point for this new quest.
Oal will be 1.610 or better.
Gun is 6 5/8” RUGER Blackhawk.
Load will be upper range for hunting (eastern US deer, bear, etc)
Primers probably federal non magnum
Lube Bens Red
Any actual reloading experience within these specs is greatly appreciated
Thanks catpop

[Walks]

12.5grs 2400 has worked well for me in a NM Blackhawk 6.5" & a 5" S&W 27 for over 40yrs. It's a bit under max, but accurate out to 50yds all day long. Cast of #2+. Ya gotta crimp over the front driving band to get it to fit in the short S&W cylinder, That's why the slightly lighter than max load.
If you want to really push it in the Blackhawk go to 13.5grs & crimp in the reg crimp groove.

[rintinglen]

I have loaded 13.5 grains under a 358-429 for 1310 FPS from a 6 inch M-28 S&W As mentioned, It was necessary to crimp over the forward edge of front driving band.

[Outpost75]

In Rugers with their longer cylinder 13.5 grs. of current Alliant #2400 is a good full-charge load with #35429 cast 1:30 tin-lead and crimped in the normal crimp groove, using .357 brass and the Federal 200 primer. Great performer on deer in any barrel length, rifle or revolver.

[zymguy]

Today I loaded 10.5 of 2400 in both 38 spec (stamped +p) and over the drive band in 357 1.590 Haven shot them yet so I cannot speak to there accuracy. Im rooting for the 38 because it was a little easier and i prefer the look, but ill shoot which ever proves more accurate in my gun. I'll be following this thread

[Low Budget Shooter]

This may not be as heavy as you're looking for, but here's what I have that's close from my experiments:
M19-3 6" barrel 358429 170 grains
12.2 gr 2400 1040fps
12.5 gr 2400 1106fps

[Catpop]

Low Budget Shooter,
Thanks for those fps numbers. It being a SW, what was the coal and where did you crimp?

[9.3X62AL]

My old duty load in 357 Magnum was the W-W Super-X 158 grain JHP, which gave about 1235 FPS from my S&W 686 x 4". I assembled practice loads using Lyman #358156 seated to crimp in the upper crimp groove atop 13.5 grains of 2400, and these clocked to the same velocity as the factory loads. They shot to the same point of aim, also. These were short enough to fit in my pre-Model 27 x 6.5" that came along years later. Later yet--about a year ago--I latched on to a Henry Big Boy/steel receiver. These loads get to almost 1600 FPS in its 20" barrel, and they are ACCURATE.

Using a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk, I have concocted some loads using AA-9, 2400, and H-110/WW-296 that approach 1550 FPS with #358156 in its 7.5" barrel. These are identified by the bullet's seating depth--crimped into the lower crimp groove. I will NOT list the powder weights--I can only imagine the BAD THINGS that such loads would do to the J-frame S&Ws or Winchester '73 repros now being sold in 357 Magnum caliber.

[hockeynick39]

I am showing 14.9 gr Alliant 2400 and 1.570" crimped or 15 gr Alliant 2400 and 1.590" crimped with a 170 gr Lyman 358429 sized to .358 for a 6" S&W Model 27.

[9.3X62AL]

That sounds reasonable, Nick39. My goal was to match my carry rounds as closely as possible. These loads extracted easily, and my impression was that I still had a little "gas pedal" left if I chose to go there. About 5 years ago, the shop went to the the FBI-recommended Federal #357B load, a 125 grain JHP @ 1440 FPS. These clock at 1425 FPS from that same S&W 686, and now I seat jacketed 125s atop 17.5 grains of 2400 to match the #357B.

[three50seven]

I load 15grs of H110 under a 358429, seated in the crimp groove, for use in my 6.5" Blackhawk. The Lyman cast manual lists it as the accuracy load for that bullet, giving 1285 fps out of their 4" test barrel. I figure it should top 1300fps out of the slightly longer Blackhawk barrel.

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

[9.3X62AL]

I load 15grs of H110 under a 358429, seated in the crimp groove, for use in my 6.5" Blackhawk. The Lyman cast manual lists it as the accuracy load for that bullet, giving 1285 fps out of their 4" test barrel. I figure it should top 1300fps out of the slightly longer Blackhawk barrel.

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

If all things are equal, that will be the case. But I noted some variance when chronographing the 125 grain J-words a few years ago. The 686 x 4" has a cylinder/forcing cone gap of .003"--the pre-27 x 6.5" has an 011" gap. Most loads that I have clocked using the two revolvers show a 50-100 velocity fall-off for the longer barrel, almost certainly due to the excessive flash-gap. The Ruger BisHawk with perfect internal specs and .004" gap adds 75-150 FPS to the figures derived from the 4" 686 results, depending upon load. That pre-27's barrel should get turned in a thread and forcing cone re-dressed, but its accuracy is sound so I haven't sent it out for work. It annoys me a bit, though.

[Catpop]

Three50seven, what is your coal? To crimp in the crimp groove I ended up with 1.665 - which is fine in my RUGER.

[Paul105]

Chronoed at 5 long paces from muzzle and 75 deg f, from 5.5" Freedom Arms M97

15.0gr H110, 170gr 357429, crimped over fr drive band 1.553" OAL ……. 1,384 fps
11.0gr A2400, 170gr 357429, crimimed over fr dri band 1.553" OAL ……. 1,177 fps

1x Starline Cases and CCI Mag Primers.

Even though the H110 load is listed in the Lyman Manual, it may be a bit on the hot side, so approach with caution if you decide to use it.

Paul

[Low Budget Shooter]

K frames you can crimp the 358429 in the groove in 357 brass; that's what I do.

[Beerd]

Paul
your 2400 results pretty much mirror what I get with a Blackhawk by crimping the 429 in the crimp groove.
11.0 gr around 1100 ft/sec
11.5 gr +/-1150
12.0 gr +/-1200
12.5 gr +/-1250
..

[three50seven]

Three50seven, what is your coal? To crimp in the crimp groove I ended up with 1.665 - which is fine in my RUGER.Mine measure 1.645 OAL. They chamber in my Blackhawk and also in my S&W 681.

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

[Paul105]

Paul
your 2400 results pretty much mirror what I get with a Blackhawk by crimping the 429 in the crimp groove.
11.0 gr around 1100 ft/sec
11.5 gr +/-1150
12.0 gr +/-1200
12.5 gr +/-1250
..

Not surprised. Different guns, different components, different temps, diff overall lengths (that you mentioned). Offsetting or stacking differences could easily result in similar results with diff OALs.

My model 19, model 66-8 (new model), and my model 60 will all chamber the 357429 crimped in the crimp groove. My Freedom Arms M97 (small frame) needs to have the bullet crimped over the front drive band to keep from sticking out the front of the cylinder.

The 11.0gr/357429 is an accurate, pleasant shooting load that should handle 98% of all tasks assigned the .357 Mag.

I know this thread is about the 357429 but I've used the Beartooth Bullets 185gr LFNGC with very good results -- overall length crimped in the crimp grove is under 1.600" and it works in every gun I've tried it in including Marlin and Rossi lever guns.

Here's a picture of the 185gr Beartooth, 180gr Horn JHP, 357429 (from Western Bullet) and Leadheads 168gr "Keith" (their descript). The two loaded rounds on the right are the Leadheads bullet crimped on the drive band and in the crimp grove. All rounds roll crimped with Dillion SDB then crimped a second time with a Lee "Collet Crimp Die" (don't remember why I did this)

https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/hobby/large/Bullets%20006-1.jpg

[dhom]

I load that bullet to a OAL of 1.635" in the crimp groove. [heavy crimp] I am loading for a 6" GP100 with 6.4 gr Unique. The load Chrono's 1150fps and will shoot 3" @ 100 yds benched with a 3 MOA red dot.

[jonp]

15.0gr H110, 170gr 357429, crimped over fr drive band 1.553" OAL ……. 1,384 fps

I've used this as H110 is my powder of choice for hot loads on most occasions. I got 1,300-1,350fps in my short barrel Blackhawk. The recoil was interesting.

[zymguy]

I am showing 14.9 gr Alliant 2400 and 1.570" crimped or 15 gr Alliant 2400 and 1.590" crimped with a 170 gr Lyman 358429 sized to .358 for a 6" S&W Model 27.

I ask in no way doubting , but because Im always hunting cast bullet sources which book?

[Gus Youmans]

zymguy,

The Lyman Reloading Handbooks, 46th and 49th Editions, and the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Edition, list a maximum charge of 13.5 grains of 2400 with the Lyman 358429 bullet. I don't have my other Lyman books handy but I think they recommend the same maximum charge. I have used that load in several revolvers over the years and it is very accurate but it is definitely a maximum charge in my guns. I do not have the information available regarding other details of the load.

Gus Youmans

[robg]

13.5 gr of 2400 was Mr Keith's load ,I wouldn't argue with that .

[salvadore]

I believe the 13.5 load was using 38spec. brass (the bullet was designed for the 38/44) that would be a scary load. I use 12 grains in 38 special brass for around 1200fps with my chrony. I shot a 3" 50yd group a few years ago, pretty good for a geezer that can't see.

[fecmech]

That 13.5 gr load in Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Edition was a 41,000 cup load and crimped on the front drive band for an oal of 1.553". It was only .013" longer than a .38 special case crimped in the crimp groove. Definitely a max .357 load! I shot a lot of that load but taper crimped on the front drive band with an oal of 1.640 to fit my Ruger cylinder. It was accurate but I had better accuracy using 15/296 or H110 at that oal.

[Beerd]

Another observation on the Lyman 49th data, there are different sections for rifle, generic handgun and Contender loads.
Overall length for rifle & handgun is listed as 1.553", for the Contender it's 1.647".
Maximum loads for 2400 is identical for all three. Same thing with other powders.
..