Does practice with a 22 pistol improve your defensive shooting skill?

[Hrfunk]

Hi all. Here's my answer to the perennial question. I would love to hear yours. I hope you enjoy the video!

HRF


https://youtu.be/BkmCFJ4-UrA

[Rick Hodges]

When I learned to shoot a handgun, it was with a double action revolver. I found that I learned more, and improved in my abilities more via dry firing than any live firing. Sight alignment and trigger control are essential and they are hard to master with the noise and recoil of the weapon distracting you. One knows exactly where the sights were when the hammer falls without the blast and recoil of live ammo. I am an old PPC shooter and know of no successful shooters who did not spend hours dry firing. To this day, if I am shooting poorly, a session dry firing helps.

Not withstanding any of the above, any trigger time is better than none. Practice with inexpensive ammunition that is light in recoil is better than none, and probably better than overpractice with heavy recoiling ammo where one develops soreness, tendonitis or a flinch. Practice doesn't make perfect....perfect practice does.

[Thumbcocker]

Practice doesn't make perfect....perfect practice does.

Took me years to figure out what that meant. When I starting getting shaky or slapping the trigger I pack up and go home.

[dverna]

I fired over 10k rounds of .22 before getting a CF pistol. Time well spent. If you cannot group with a .22, you will do a lot worse with a CF.

My opinion is far too many people use full power loads too soon in their training. I load mousephart loads for my fiancé so she can work her way up. Another good reason for a revolver.

[Hrfunk]

I fired over 10k rounds of .22 before getting a CF pistol. Time well spent. If you cannot group with a .22, you will do a lot worse with a CF.

My opinion is far too many people use full power loads too soon in their training. I load mousephart loads for my fiancé so she can work her way up. Another good reason for a revolver.

I agree. The question I was exploring in the video, however, is whether using a 22 pistol will help maintain/enhance defensive shooting skills for an experienced shooter. I completely agree that a rimfire is the best option for training a new shooter.

HRF

[wv109323]

I think any trigger time will help. The worst thing using a target. 22 is that they usually have a light trigger. It would be best to practice with what you will use in a SD situation.

[Three44s]

YES!

A hand gun in 22 lr. as close to your chosen firearm as you can get will most certainly improve your skill. Dry firing in your guns where appropriate is an even bigger plus.

As a matter of necessity I do revolvers .... besides two legged coyotes I also am concerned with apex predators. As a result I chose to use 44 Mag and later added a SRH in 480 Ruger. I also have 38/357 and 41 Mag revolvers but count the largest calibers as the “business” cartridges.

For all my revolver work I rely on a K22 Smith & Wesson and run through my paces, switch up to centerfire and run up the power ladder with them. I never shoot the heavy stuff long enough to feel like I am beating myself up.

I stopped shooting paper targets long ago. Instead I seek out reactionary targets. My favorite is the lowly golf ball, cheap .... mostly free, long lived with the larger calibers and plentiful.

Let me debunk a favorite wive’s tale: If you train in DA .... you can defend in DA with the large calibers and stiff loads.


Best regards

Three44s

[Beerd]

"Does practice with a 22 pistol improve your defensive shooting skill?"

It doesn't hurt.
..

[RedStar Raider]

I enjoyed the video and the discussion that followed, nothing to add that wasn't already said.

[glockfan]

as for recoil management in fast action probably not that much, while you still can practice the fundamentals ,the basics regarding grip,stance,steady aiming, trigger control .....all those things you also want to master with the bigger bores as well .

now,the .22 can't mimick the recoil of the larger calibers, consecutive shots with a .22 can't reproduce the energy felt through centerfire handguns , then in that regard the practice time invested into the real thing can't be substitued by the rimfire ; shooting fast and accurately is one thing with a ruger MK 22-45 ; it requires much more efforts as recoil and muzzle flip increases .simple math.

[Hrfunk]

That's more or less what I was saying in the conclusion to my video. There is definitely marksmanship value in practicing with the .22, but it can't replace practicing with your actual defensive pistol/ammunition.

HRF

[Thumbcocker]

Is recoil even noticed in defensive situations? I never notice recoil when shooting at critters.

[EMC45]

Rimfire won't replicate the recoil or muzzle blast of the centerfire counterpart. It will aid and assist in gear (gun/holster) manipulation and clothing wear and selection. Most importantly it will help you to attain and maintain the fundamentals.

If you are a shooter and not a handloader (sounds sickening I know) then a rimfire is a great option due to ammo cost.

[NoZombies]

Having never fired a gun in a defensive situation (Thank God) I couldn't say for sure. It helps with the other shooting I do.

[dubber123]

Any real trigger time helps. If you have a .22 counterpart to your SD gun, even better. I personally think you will benefit most in the draw and first shot practice, as it's all different noise and recoil wise after that.

[sparkyv]

For a defensive situation, I don't think so, at least not for me. For target accuracy and trigger control then yes. And this from a guy who shoots a lot of .22LR; it's my favorite caliber.

[Hrfunk]

For a defensive situation, I don't think so, at least not for me. For target accuracy and trigger control then yes. And this from a guy who shoots a lot of .22LR; it's my favorite caliber.

That is more or less the conclusion I came to at the end of the video.

HRF

[Three44s]

I take my heavy recoil in measured doses. Two cylinders full double action out of my Mountain Gun of bear loads and my fundamentals are frazzled if I go beyond that.

I get the bulk of my trigger time from the lowly 22 lr in a k frame and switch up to light 44s in the MG and advance to higher loading. At the end I generally run one cylinder of the “good stuff” and call it good.

Three44s

[rking22]

Considering the importance of a quick first round centershot, training with a 22 of the same model/characteristics as your defense gun is execelent practice. Agree with others here, still finish up with some quality practice eith full loads. Focus on QUALITY practice. See my siginature...

[Kraschenbirn]

While I own my share of autoloaders, my 'go-to' guns are all revolvers and my favorite 'trainer' is a 4" S&W M17-4. Sights, trigger, and balance are the same as my 586 and sufficiently close to my Ruger MC. Don't shoot it as much these days 'cause I can load .38 Spls for less than I can buy .22s locally.

Bill

[bob208]

shooting is shooting the more you do the better you get even using a cap and ball pistol is still shooting. it all comes down to sight alignment and trigger control. which is only learned by doing.

[Preacher Jim]

Practice shooting as you would in any situation. Any caliber will help you, remember, sight picture. Trigger pull and follow threw. If you are using a revolver practice shooting double action. Learn to shoot with either hand right barricade and left barricade. Learn to point and fire. The average shooter needs to find point of fire from draw, most if pointing at left shoulder will hit center mass.
Pray you never have to use a weapon but if you do know how to use it well. You or your families life might depend upon it.

[gray wolf]

If I were going to practice defensive shooting with any gun,
I would get a holster that allowed me not to fumble the gun.
(watch the video)

Also one I could place the gun into without having to holster it half way.
Also not almost drop the gun. ( sloppy holster work )

As for the subject matter? (been beat to death)

Does it help ? it's subjective, I say leave it to the individual.
Good for a new shooter for a little getting use to a handgun.
Then get off it and practice with the gun of your choice.
The one you will use to defend your life.

I can't get passed the sloppy holster work.

[osteodoc08]

Nothing else to add really but to echo that quality trigger time helps. Same with dry firing and dry manipulation drills.

[Tom W.]

Yes, it helps. In a defensive situation you probably won't even hear the firearm going off, but with all that you must be aware of you may not even notice the recoil.

You will notice the ringing in your ears after the situation is settled.

[9.3X62AL]

Yes, it helps. In a defensive situation you probably won't even hear the firearm going off, but with all that you must be aware of you may not even notice the recoil.

You will notice the ringing in your ears after the situation is settled.

This was my experience, 10:30 P.M. with low artificial lighting in a strip mall rear alley. I did see my muzzle flashes when I returned fire after being hit. 2 hits out of five fired, 26 feet apart.

[MT Gianni]

While it doesn't hurt, 38 specials for a caster are still cheaper than 22.

[bigboredad]

I don't see how it could hurt. I think I would certainly help with multiple targets having to transition find the sights and a proper trigger pull in my opinion is best practiced with live ammo especially if practicing with a auto. As many others have stated trigger time is very important proper trigger time. Having to rack a slide for every trigger pull makes it hard to practice multiple targets. Of course just like the post above this is mph ymmv

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I spent my youth shooting a Crosman 1377 pellet pistol. Many thousands of rounds. Switching to a centerfire pistol was pretty easy after that. If you are confident that you can put rounds on target you then can concentrate on the situation at hand.

[str8wal]

While it doesn't hurt, 38 specials for a caster are still cheaper than 22.

IDK about that. A few years ago yes, but 22's are back to 5 cents or less a pop. Primer and powder is 5 cents per.

[tazman]

IDK about that. A few years ago yes, but 22's are back to 5 cents or less a pop. Primer and powder is 5 cents per.

True. In addition you have the cost of the lead involved unless you get it free. The time it takes to cast, lube, and assemble ammo is not negligible.
I will grant that a 22lr is not the same as a 38 special or 9mm if nothing else due to the bang and recoil involved. Time with the larger cartridge would be valuable as well. You need to be familiar with the gun you will use.

[MT Gianni]

Lead at $1 lb, 125 gr bullets =18 lbs per 1000. $18. Red Dot powder 8 lbs for $145=$18 lb. 3 gr load= 100 rds =$6. Primers 5k for $120 inc shipping = $24 per K. total is $48 per 1000 rds shot. Yes you have time, lube and tooling. You also have a product with recoil, noise and a lot more uses than 22 lr. You can also drop to a 105 gr lee and cut lead costs down, round balls and surplus powder. if you scrounge lead your costs can be next to nothing.

[tazman]

Lead at $1.25 + shipping. 2.2 cents per.
Bullseye Powder $148 + shipping or $170 + tax at the LGS. 1.2 cent per.
Primers $155 per 5k. 3.1 cents per.
Assume your brass is free. Assume your time and effort is worthless. Assume your Lube is made from stuff you didn't buy but had lying around.
6.4 cents per shot. $64 dollars per thousand shots.
Prices current at Midway except for the lead.

I don't know where you buy your supplies, but it doesn't reflect the costs that I have to pay. Plus I didn't add in the shipping costs or tax in my calculations so the actual costs would be higher.

[str8wal]

Lead at $1 lb, 125 gr bullets =18 lbs per 1000. $18. Red Dot powder 8 lbs for $145=$18 lb. 3 gr load= 100 rds =$6. Primers 5k for $120 inc shipping = $24 per K. total is $48 per 1000 rds shot.

Don't know where you do your shopping, but I can't come close to that pricing around here. Good for you tho.

Just saw a 222 count box of 22's for $9.22, that's about 4 cents a pop. Splitting hairs unless you take your time into consideration, then 22's are waay cheaper.

[Bigslug]

A little different spin on it:

At the height of my Highpower Rifle competition, my training and .308 ammo use pretty much followed this schedule:

1. I was shooting military surplus pull-down FMJ's for the 200 and 300 yard stages where they were accurate enough, and saving the Sierra Matchkings for 600 yard slow fire. I was shooting on average one match every other weekend.

2. 2-3 weeknights per week, I was shooting the equivalent of a full match, running the course dry-fire with dummy rounds.

3. On weekends alternate to the actual matches, I was practicing with an equivalent stock/sights .22 and mid-grade target ammo (good enough for feedback, if not the Olympics) on alternate weekends.

Considering that my rifle shooting had at that point effectively become a part time job, the .22 took TIME away from the loading bench and let me spend it actually shooting with "disposable" brass. In that light, it doubled my range time. Considering that sight picture is sight picture, trigger control is trigger control, and that recoil almost doesn't even register in your brain when you're that trained up and focused on the shot, I would say that YES, time on a .22 will unquestionably improve your skills. The trick is to train your brain to treat each shot as if it's a dry-fire with no recoil - even if it happens to be a live .416 Rigby. .22 helps with that kind of re-wiring.

Key to this is that you still have to occasionally shoot the big gun so that it isn't totally alien when the need for it comes, but a 25/75 split between it and the .22 is not unreasonable. At least where factory ammo is involved, the .22 pays for itself pretty quick at that rate.

[Rick Hodges]

A little different spin on it:

At the height of my Highpower Rifle competition, my training and .308 ammo use pretty much followed this schedule:

1. I was shooting military surplus pull-down FMJ's for the 200 and 300 yard stages where they were accurate enough, and saving the Sierra Matchkings for 600 yard slow fire. I was shooting on average one match every other weekend.

2. 2-3 weeknights per week, I was shooting the equivalent of a full match, running the course dry-fire with dummy rounds.

3. On weekends alternate to the actual matches, I was practicing with an equivalent stock/sights .22 and mid-grade target ammo (good enough for feedback, if not the Olympics) on alternate weekends.

Considering that my rifle shooting had at that point effectively become a part time job, the .22 took TIME away from the loading bench and let me spend it actually shooting with "disposable" brass. In that light, it doubled my range time. Considering that sight picture is sight picture, trigger control is trigger control, and that recoil almost doesn't even register in your brain when you're that trained up and focused on the shot, I would say that YES, time on a .22 will unquestionably improve your skills. The trick is to train your brain to treat each shot as if it's a dry-fire with no recoil - even if it happens to be a live .416 Rigby. .22 helps with that kind of re-wiring.

Key to this is that you still have to occasionally shoot the big gun so that it isn't totally alien when the need for it comes, but a 25/75 split between it and the .22 is not unreasonable. At least where factory ammo is involved, the .22 pays for itself pretty quick at that rate.

Amen!

[Rodfac]

Practice doesn't make perfect....perfect practice does. Truer words were never spoken! A .22 will teach you: proper grip and maintenance of same shot to shot, trigger control (the supprise "break"), sight alignment (level on top, and an equal amount of white light on each side), sight picture (aligned sights centered on the target...AND...accepting the wobble area that your physique and grip will settle on.

Recovery from recoil and re-establishing the above with a heavier caliber will come with practice.

We've all seen the gun range morons who can empty a magazine (or more rarely, a cylinder) in a couple of seconds from 3 yards and act like they're some sort of "pistolero" of note by keeping just a few of the resulting mess in a hand's size group...aside from making noise, they accomplish nothing but do establish their minimal credentials.

Rod