Show Me Your .38 S&Ws (NOT Specials)

[Outpost75]

I know there must be some lurking here besides Louisiana Man and myself who collect and shoot revolvers chambered for the .38 S&W (NOT Special) cartridge. Here are some of mine, please show us yours:

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[Dieselhorses]

I'll be, haven't seen one of them in a long time!

[shooting on a shoestring]

Aww Gee...
I passed up a fairly early “Chief” in 38 S&W that looked a lot like yours. Not sure what that 38S&W model is called. Is that the Model 32? I have some J-frames in 38 Spl and some in 32 S&W but I don’t remember the model of that 38 S&W. I passed it up bc I’m knee deep in J and K frames in 38 Spl. Figured I could back off the Bullseye a little and get those ballistics if I wanted them.

I’m not knocking your penchant for 38 S&Ws. That’s a really cool pile of them. What about that caliber appeals to you?

And is that Ruger Speed Six in 38 S&W too?

[Nueces]

I'm not in a position to post photos just now, but I have 4 38 S&W revolvers, all in excellent condition:

Early Colt Police Positive, 4" barrel
Webley Mk IV 4" barrel, spur hammer
Webley Mk IV 5" barrel, spur hammer, sliding safety, marked SPF (for Singapore Police Force, I understand)
Smith & Wesson Lend Lease Victory Model, 5" barrel

As I have learned is common experience, my interest in this round, along with such as the 455, has grown with age.

[Earlwb]

I happen to have one. I put it in a display case with some other items to make it more interesting too. The revolver is on the wrong side to help balance out the display case. I had sold the .38 Special S&W revolver a number of years ago, and yes I regret it. 220455220456

[LAGS]

This is the only picture in my downloaded file at this time.
The Manage Attachments wont let me delete pictures so I can add more current pictures.
This is a Belgian British Bull Dog that chambers a 38 S&W cartridge.
But the bore is actually .340.
So I swedge down 9mm cast boolits to .345 and load them with a Heavy roll crimp to hold the boolit in place.
It Shoots.
But I have 6 other pistols in .38 S&W including several top break that I call Suicide Specials and two Victory Lend lease with 5" barrels

[Outpost75]

...Not sure what that 38S&W model is called....

I’m not knocking your penchant for 38 S&Ws. That’s a really cool pile of them. What about that caliber appeals to you?

And is that Ruger Speed Six in 38 S&W too?

Original 2" .38 S&W round butt on I-frame was called the Terrier .38/32, later when they went to the J-frame it became the Model 32. I became interested in the caliber when I inherited a family piece, then I acquired others. Yes, that is an India Model Ruger in .380 Rimmed.

I've found these little revolvers accurate, pleasant to shoot, and more effective on small game than a .22 or .32 but still economical of powder and lead. Velocity and payload is similar to a .38 Special wadcutter or .38 Long Colt from a revolver of the same barrel length, so while it may not be your first choice as a defense gun, they were felt adequate for that purpose for many years prior to WW2, and with flat-nosed bullets they do the job.

Accurate has several molds designed for the .38 S&W in a range of bullet weights, so that you can find one to shoot to the fixed sights of any revolver you have. In solid-frame, swing-out cylinder guns a charge of 2.5 grains of Bullseye with 140-158 grain bullet is a "full charge" load, whereas for the older top-break guns you want to use 2 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup.

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[Wayne Dobbs]

I'd love to have one of those Rugers!

[Texas by God]

My first revolver was a .380/.38S&W Enfield that I bought from my 7th grade teacher. At school. The first handgun I reloaded for, also.
My brother still owns it; I'll see about getting a pic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Outpost75]

I'd love to have one of those Rugers!

They are out there, but pricey!

[Soundguy]

Had a range day a few weeks ago.. revolvers only.

I brought a H&R defender in 38sw, a couple Webley in 38sw as well. One of the webs was one of those imports that was cut down to a snubby by a place in california way back.

On the table is also a nagant revolver with it's stock cyl, plus a 32 acp cyl, as well as another H&R topbreak in 32 sw, and I believe a python is hiding at the top left of the picture.

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[oscarflytyer]

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H&R and Smith. Son #3 has them, from hid GF's estate. Not shot them.

[Reverend Al]

I have a few .38 S&W revolvers, but this is one of my favorites ...

https://i.imgur.com/bNYWZmv.jpg

[Reverend Al]

By the way, this is my vintage 8 cavity .38 S&W 146 grain round nose plain base mould too ...

https://i.imgur.com/WbeiC2h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1Gy7Wql.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1Z4QN4p.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L56cf2T.jpg

[jhaston]

220519
S&W Safety Hammerless (Lemon Squeezer) in 38 S&W.

[Bigslug]

220521

220522

Still trying to find the matching Supermarine Spitfire to go with it.

[Outpost75]

220521

220522

Still trying to find the matching Supermarine Spitfire to go with it.

Indeed! Drool worthy warbird photos here: http://www.warbirdalley.com/spitpic.htm

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[Soundguy]

Love that mold!!

[Catshooter]

Outpost,

Nice rollers man!

What dies do you use for the .38? I tried Lee (marked .38 S&W) some years back but the sizer was identical to a .38 spl.


Cat

[Shawlerbrook]

Here’s mine. I had it for about 25 years and it’s a hoot to shoot.
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[Outpost75]

Outpost,

Nice rollers man!

What dies do you use for the .38? I tried Lee (marked .38 S&W) some years back but the sizer was identical to a .38 spl. Before I got those I used Lee 9mm Luger dies I already had, with a .38 Special shell holder and they did OK, but I really wanted a proper roll crimp and not a taper crimp, and the RCBS Cowboy set does exactly what I want, has a proper expander for .360" bullets and does not over-work the cases.


Cat

I use RCBS .38 S&W "Cowboy" dies for mine. Sizer is NOT carbide, so you must lube the cases, but they do a great job.

[Speedo66]

Here’s mine. I had it for about 25 years and it’s a hoot to shoot.
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Must be tough aiming it like that. lol

Nice gun.

[Catshooter]

Ahh. Thanks Outpost.


Cat

[leebuilder]

220653

My two. Ones and enfield the other is a 33-6 I think was new never fired when I got it.
Some Noe 200Gr and old factory ammo.
Be well

[mozeppa]

mine!

[Texas by God]

I loved my old Enfield. I loaded HBWC's in it to fit the oversize bore. It was minute of mud turtle, rabbit, and squirrel with those loads. I also brazed a bead on the front sight to correct poi and cut a SA notch in the hammer for aimed fire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[FergusonTO35]

Some very nice guns here, folks. I don't have an actual .38 S&W, but I do feed my S&W 637 an equivalent load: 3.2 grains Bullseye/Lyman 358091 for 712 fps.

[9.3X62AL]

I currently have five 38 S&W examples on hand, and two 38 Specials. For the past 3 years or so, the 38 S&Ws have gotten a lot more range and field time than have the Specials.

Oldest to newest, as best I can determine.......

1) Iver Johnson "Owl Head", 3" barrel, made prior to WWI. Throats are .361", and it gets .375 RBs sized to .363" in an H&I die atop 1.5 grains of WW-231.

2) Colt Police Positive x 4", 1920 mfg. Throats @ .359", Lyman #358477 @ .359" atop 3.0 grains of Unique or 3.3 grains of Herco gives 700-725 FPS.

3) S&W Regulation Police x 4", 1933 mfg. Throats @ .361", one of my #358477 moulds drops .362" castings that clean up @ .361", same powder weights as #2 above.

4) Webley-Enfield DAO service revolver, likely WWII mfg. 4-1/2" barrel, throats .362"-.363". Shoots NEI #169A roughly to the sights at 25yards, 3.0 x Unique or 3.3 x Herco for 625-650 FPS.

5) S&W M&P "Lend-Lease" 38/200, 5" barrel, .363" throats. Shoots #169A into groups half the size of those produced at 25 yards by the W-E, 650-675 FPS.

I have the RCBS Cowboy Die Set in 38 S&W; it has two sizes of expander spud marked ".358" and ".360". The set's seater die will not accept a bullet larger than .362", but the 9mm Makarov die set can lend a hand here--tungsten carbide sizer die of proper diameter for 38 S&W, and the bullet aligning sleeve in the Mak seater die will fit a .367" pin gauge.

In a good revolver with decent sighting gear, the 38 S&W can give a good showing for itself downrange. The Colt PP and the S&W M&P have the best sights, and have accounted for lots of small varmints.

[Reverend Al]

Yeah, she's a beauty ... but a heavy hog to cast with. Rains bullets once it's up to temperature though. I have the sister mould to it in a 5 cavity as well.



Love that mold!!

[Dan Cash]

I don't have a .38 S&W, darn it. A while ago, a forum member offered a Baby Russian Smith that was in pretty good shape but I pndered too long and it passed. Now I sorely covet one. A thing like that could become my constant carry companion. :)

[Outpost75]

9.3x62AL -

Thanks for posting the comprehensive info!

This is EXACTLY the type of feedback I was hoping to encourage!

Bravo Zulu and an extra rum ration for you at mess this evening!

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All Hands Please Carry On!

[leebuilder]

Mmmmmmmm.
Pusser issue?
D85 962 666, petty officer Morash, R, permission to drink it "neat" SIR?

Ahhhh the the lack of memories.
be safe

[Outpost75]

Mmmmmmmm.
Pusser issue?
D85 962 666, petty officer Morash, R, permission to drink it "neat" SIR?

Ahhhh the the lack of memories.
be safe

"Neat" is customarily authorized for enlisted ratings who have attained the age of 40 years. Carry On!

[9.3X62AL]

I age-qualified a couple decades back! Thank you for the kind words, Outpost.

The point to be made here is that the 38 S&W is NOT just a 38 Special Short--the 38 S&W case is fatter than that of the Special (.386"-.387") vs the 38 Special/357 spec of .379". 38 S&W bullets have a "mean" diameter spec of .361", and the throat specs vary from maker to maker--and sometimes from example to example within a given make. A "Tale of the Tape" on your revolver's throat spec prior to ammo assembly will keep you on the path to accuracy and prevent bore and throat leading.

[Outpost75]

I age-qualified a couple decades back! Thank you for the kind words, Outpost.

The point to be made here is that the 38 S&W is NOT just a 38 Special Short--the 38 S&W case is fatter than that of the Special (.386"-.387") vs the 38 Special/357 spec of .379". 38 S&W bullets have a "mean" diameter spec of .361", and the throat specs vary from maker to maker--and sometimes from example to example within a given make. A "Tale of the Tape" on your revolver's throat spec prior to ammo assembly will keep you on the path to accuracy and prevent bore and throat leading.

Base diameter of .38 S&W is larger also and won't enter into "most" .38 Special revolver chambers. One notable exception being certain Ruger "Six" series .38 Special and .357s which will accept current REMINGTON and older Rem-UMC brands of .38 S&W 146-grain LRN ammo, but not current Winchester, older WRA, or Kynoch, or postwar Norma, Fiocchi, Geco, or new Starline brass.

Some S&W 940 9mm Centennial revolvers accept and function fine with R-P .38 S&W without clips and 9mm with clips, at least mine does...

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[9.3X62AL]

So--38 S&W = 9mm Auto Rim? Interesting.

[bruce drake]

So--38 S&W = 9mm Auto Rim? Interesting.

probably loaded to a lower pressure than Federal's discontinued 9mmAR cartridge.

[Outpost75]

probably loaded to a lower pressure than Federal's discontinued 9mmAR cartridge.

Because I have several older .38 S&W revolvers I'm not about to assemble any .38 S&W +P to use in the 940, for fear of a mixup.

But I like the idea of being able to use .38 S&W ammo I already have loaded for the older revolvers in the 940 for practice, and the fact that its fixed sights are "on" at practical ranges with both 146-grain .38 S&W and 9mm Parabellum 147-grain JHPs.

Rather convenient.

[Gray Fox]

Outpost 75: I recently picked up a 940 and your use of .38 S&W in it is timely info for me. I'd never have thought that the larger diameter .38 boolits would have fit the bore, however. I have been considering loading some 147 grainers in 9mm, can you give me an idea what load you are using? Thanks, GF.

[leebuilder]

Must be old navy. Wasnt 40 at the time, but my only splicing of the main brace at sea. I was allowed 3 plus spillage, made it 3 frames before my gyro koncked out.
i did it just because.
Be well

[Gray Fox]

Outpost 75:

I just wandered out to my shop and found a baggie with a few rounds of factory R-P .38 S&W rounds in it. Why I have them I don't recall. Any how, the rounds don't quite fully chamber and the cylinder won't close. I imagine with whatever boolit you're casting that isn't a problem. GF

[Outpost75]

Outpost 75:

I just wandered out to my shop and found a baggie with a few rounds of factory R-P .38 S&W rounds in it. Why I have them I don't recall. Any how, the rounds don't quite fully chamber and the cylinder won't close. I imagine with whatever boolit you're casting that isn't a problem. GF

The bullets I use in .38 S&W are all Accurate designs, most having a short base to crimp length so that seating depth in the case does not exceed factory 146-grain LRN ammo. For the Colt, Ruger and S&W 940 revolvers having smaller cylinder ball seats with .359" major diameter (the 36-142H being especially for the S&W 940 whose throats taper quickly from .359" major diameter with an 11 degree transition to .356" cylindrical) the fore-part north of the crimp groove is specified for the max. diameter being the same as the revolver cylinder throat, specifying Nose Tolerance Negative, as in these following examples:

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Optionally, for the older S&W and Webley revolvers having larger diameter .360-.362" cylinder throats is to specify desired the desired minimum dimension of front band, allowing for the normal + tolerance to fit properly, as shown below in 36-159H, and to adjust alloy to change diameter or size minimally for the Colts and Ruger.

[9.3X62AL]

The NEI #169A bullet that mimics the Mk I-series 200 grain RN bullet has a L-O-N-G sloping nose that is significantly longer than the bullet base portion meant to occupy the case mouth when seated. That portion is about .330" long, bullet overall length is .810". Yes--longer than the case it occupies. That sub-caliber nose portion "saves the day" when being seated in the RCBS Cowboy seating die--no full-caliber portion of the bullet sees the centering sleeve, so the bullet doesn't hang up and seating & roll crimping can be done in one die step. Accurate #36-176P is very close to the weight of the 178 grain Mk-II bullet used during WWII. The flat nose on 176P is a far better form for whacking varmints with, which is the venue my 38 S&Ws spend a lot of their time within. A range site I frequented in Ridgecrest had a variety of iron targets at 25 and 50 yards in the pistol bay, and the impact/clang that 200 grain bullets at 650 FPS made was a lot more vigorous than the effect of the 150 grainers at 700 FPS. The 38/200 cartridge is a significant uptick from the usual 38 S&W loadings, if differential effects on iron targets between the two loadings account for anything.

[Harry O]

220798

This belonged to someone in my extended family who died in the 1950's. Like many of that time, there was a bedroom gun that was passed to my father, who passed it on to me when I got old enough. As near as I can tell, it is a third model S&W 1883 DA. I have shot less than a box through it, but it has functioned perfectly. It still locks up tight.

[Tom Herman]

4) Webley-Enfield DAO service revolver, likely WWII mfg. 4-1/2" barrel, throats .362"-.363". Shoots NEI #169A roughly to the sights at 25yards, 3.0 x Unique or 3.3 x Herco for 625-650 FPS.

5) S&W M&P "Lend-Lease" 38/200, 5" barrel, .363" throats. Shoots #169A into groups half the size of those produced at 25 yards by the W-E, 650-675 FPS.

Excellent information! This caused me to dig stuff out of storage:

-S & W Victory (Lend/Lease): 5 cylinder throats @ .362", one at .361"...
-Webley Mark IV: .361".
-Early Enfield (1932) No 2 Mk 1: .360" throats.

Now I'm going to have to clear the schedule and start casting 200 grain bullets...

[9.3X62AL]

Excellent information! This caused me to dig stuff out of storage:

-S & W Victory (Lend/Lease): 5 cylinder throats @ .362", one at .361"...
-Webley Mark IV: .361".
-Early Enfield (1932) No 2 Mk 1: .360" throats.

Now I'm going to have to clear the schedule and start casting 200 grain bullets...

I got started in the 38/200 business by "Beagling" my Lyman #358430/195 grain RN mould. This tool is among the first moulds I bought when I started casting in 1981, and it drops 92/6/2 alloy at .360" in its unaltered condition. Add a few bits of aluminum HVAC tape to the block faces, and bullets "cheat" out to .363".

Nice enough, as far as it went. The #358430 castings with those nice .363" drive bands refused to fit into the RCBS Cowboy Die Set's seating sleeve. I monkeyed around with the 9mm Makarov dies to get the bullets seated and a taper crimp on the case mouths, but this made for a lot of extra work. After several months of these work-around gymnastics I ordered the NEI #169A mould, and was thereafter able to reload ammo for the 38 S&W and the 38/200 in the conventional manner (with fewer die steps).

The Lyman #358477 design and an NOE clone of that design do great service in the 38 S&W. The NOE tool drops its castings at .360" in 30/1 lead/tin, and almost .361" in 92/6/2. This sort of alloy strength is not needed for the low-pressure 38 S&W, but it is nice having the castings fit in the throats of my two "jewels"--the Colt PP and the S&W RegPol 4"ers. The little Colt has accounted for its share of jackrabbits and one badger that was acting the fool one day out east of Goffs.