Range report: 32-20 and 30-30 (photos)

[KirkD]

Well men, while looking at my vacation time this afternoon, it became obvious that I won't be able to cram the vacation time owing me into what is left of the year, especially since I can't afford to take more than a few days off for hunting before Christmas. So I decided I'd make up for it by heading down the road to the range for an hour. Here's a brief report.

32-20: First off, I'm starting to develop an accurate load for my Winchester Model 65 (circa 1941) 32-20 (also known as the 32 W.C.F.). Today I tried 11.1 grains of 5744 under a 90 grain RCBS bullet. These bullets have such a fat olgive that closing the lever the last little bit was a bit stiff, due to the bullet being rammed into the rifling. I'll have to set the bullets in a little deeper or else trim my cases down a bit. Anyway, eight shots at 50 yards indicates that this load is not the greatest. On the other hand, the notch in the open iron sights is terrible for sighting. It is more like a 'U' with sloping shoulders at the top of the U so that it is difficult to know exactly where the U ends. I may exchange the sliding blade for something that has a bit flatter top. Anyway, here's the results, resting my rifle on the top of my shooting bag ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Model-65-target.jpg

Next up was 'Old Savage', my Winchester 30-30 carbine made in 1954. This is the rifle I'm hoping to harvest a Whitetail Deer with in mid-November, so I've loaded up 168 rounds to practice with between now and then. All practicing is done from a free-standing, offhand position. I plan to also try a bit of 200 yard shooting from a sitting position. Shown below are my last three targets, all shot at 100 yards from an offhand position with open iron sights. The load was 28 grains of IMR 3031 under a 150 grain RCBS bullet for about 2,100 fps.

Five shots, four on paper: The four out of five shots that did make it on the paper were fairly close together for offhand shooting, but I tend to shoot low when I shoot offhand. If I can't correct that, I'll have to adjust the rear sight. Only two made it into the 'boiler room'. Here's the target ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/30-30-offhnd-first.jpg

Five shots, five on paper: I got them all on the paper this time, but still only two of them would be in the 'Boiler room'. Still shooting low.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/30-30-off-middle.jpg

Seven shots, seven on paper: I loaded up my last 7 rounds into the magazine and let 'er rip. This time, I managed to shoot a bit higher, but I felt a little sloppy and the holes were all over the map. Still, 5 out of the 7 shots were in the Boiler room, with the last two close together and low. Here's the target ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/30-30-off-last.jpg

Well, my offhand shooting still needs work if I'm going to get them all in the boiler room but, as I said before, I'm just at the front end of my practicing. I got two months to work on this. I find the Winchester model 94 carbine with open sights a real challenge due to its short sight radius. Yet, I love this rifle. It is compact, light, and a joy to shoot. If I can get good with this one, I'll be dadgummed good with my longer octagon barreled rifles.

[9.3X62AL]

Two very fine classic rifles you have there!

The gun press would have you believe that any rifle incapable of shooting sub-1" groups at 100 yards has no place in the deer woods. EQUINE EXCREMENT! Most all Win 94 and Marlin 336 30-30s can do 3" groups at 100 yards, and the part left unsaid by the bullwarp bwanas is that the humble 3" group at 100 yards is still a 1.5" radial dispersion from group center--plenty good enough to hit the boiler room you specify. Since WWII or thereabouts, a lot of printer's ink has flowed to pronounce the 30-30 obsolete, outdated, over-rated, under-achieving, inaccurate, low-powered, and worse. I'm glad that muleys and whitetails don't subscribe to "Guns & Whatever" magazine, 'cause the caliber still works--and it would be a bad thing indeed if both the hunters AND their quarry were so badly misinformed. EVERY deer I've taken could have been very capably downed by the 30-30, and 3 of the 8 actually were--including my first at age 13.

Don't sweat the wide dispersion from your offhand shooting. Rome wasn't built in a day, just get comfy with that Old Savage and you'll make venison if the goddess of the hunt smiles upon thee.

[Bret4207]

For rear sight equipment I HIGHLY recommend a receiver sight or "peep" sight. A Williams peep can be had for $38.95 or less ( http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16196&title=SAVAGE%20-%20WINCHESTER%205D%20ECONOMY%20RECEIVER%20SIGHTS ) and will work far better than the open sight.

Why do you call your Winchester "Old Savage"?

[KirkD]

Bret, I got a Lyman peep I'm going to try, but I'm not impressed with its quality of workmanship. I'd really like to try a Williams and will get one as soon as I can afford one (moulds are a higher priority right now, since I started casting).

I named the Winchester 'Old Savage' after the nickname of the fellow who gave it to me.

[Bret4207]

Well, that explains the name. If you're not happy with the Lyman I have to wonder if maybe you have a used (and abused) specimen? The older Lyman and Redfield sights were pretty nice. Whats the specific complaint?

[KirkD]

Bret, mines a newer one that was made out of some kind of flexible aluminum. The shiny graduated scale up the side appears to have been hand made with a file, I've had one of the springs under the adjusting knob break the first time out, and the knob 'clicks' are not really clicks but semi-mushy. Overall, it seems quite flexible, fragile and easily damaged or knocked out of line. I've seen one of the older Lymans and it was really nice. This new one is very unimpressive. I've heard good reports about the Williams Foolproof, however, and would like to give it a try.

[LIMPINGJ]

I have a Foolproof on my 375 Big Bore 94 and have no issues with it.

[Just Duke]

Nice shooting and thanks for the pics.

[Buckshot]

Bret, mines a newer one that was made out of some kind of flexible aluminum. The shiny graduated scale up the side appears to have been hand made with a file, I've had one of the springs under the adjusting knob break the first time out, and the knob 'clicks' are not really clicks but semi-mushy. Overall, it seems quite flexible, fragile and easily damaged or knocked out of line. I've seen one of the older Lymans and it was really nice. This new one is very unimpressive. I've heard good reports about the Williams Foolproof, however, and would like to give it a try.

.............An old steel Lyman or Redfield is for sure head and shoulders above the current aluminum jobs. Aluminum may be 'spaceage' but it's hard to find real utility for it anywhere on a firearm. Wood and steel, that's the deal :-)

...............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Shows you how far behind the times I am. I didn't know Lymans new sights were aluminum!

[KirkD]

A friend of mine has an old steel Lyman .... beautiful sight. On the basis of that, I ordered one. The new one was a real disappointment. The Williams Foolproof is my next one.

[Buckshot]

A friend of mine has an old steel Lyman .... beautiful sight. On the basis of that, I ordered one. The new one was a real disappointment. The Williams Foolproof is my next one.

...........Williams' sights differ in detail but they're aluminum also. No one uses iron sights anymore so it doesn't pay to machine them out of steel, when aluminum extrusions are so comparatively cheap.

...............Buckshot

[scrapcan]

I have a williams foolproof on a win 94 in rifle configuration and it is a servicable sight combination. I added a merit adjustable aperture and it is a great sight system now. I did have to put a fold down rear leaf on it to get the rear sight out of the way. I could have just as easily drifted the sight out and left the dovetail open, but I had a fold down form my ruger 10-22 that fit the dovetail.

I am looking for an original lyman for a model 64 winchester in 30-30. Anyone got one they would trade?

[twotrees]

I just figured out you ment Merit not verit.

Merrit adj aperture at E.A.Brown's (http://www.eabco.com/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?preadd=action&key=110-002)

Thanks in advance,

[scrapcan]

Twotrees,

sorry that should have read Merit. I seem to be having a tim eof it with the old typist today.

here is a link

http://www.meritcorporation.com/

they are a bit pricey but it is definitely worth the cost. nice to be able to sharpen the aperature without carrying a bunch in your pocket.

[Nueces]

I love the Merit aperture. You can adjust it for ambient lighting, for what eyeglasses you're wearing and even for aging eyes. You can squeeze it down for the range and open it up for the field.

I've used them for a long time, but they are especially useful now that my near vision has gone fuzzy. With 1.00 diopter glasses, a blade front sight is sharp against a black bull, and the Sharps is good for 1 MOA at 100 meters.

Mark

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have an old Lyman on my 375 Big Bore, Purty rifle, purty sight. Nice looking old guns Dude.

[wellshoot!]

Two very fine classic rifles you have there!

The gun press would have you believe that any rifle incapable of shooting sub-1" groups at 100 yards has no place in the deer woods. EQUINE EXCREMENT! Most all Win 94 and Marlin 336 30-30s can do 3" groups at 100 yards, and the part left unsaid by the bullwarp bwanas is that the humble 3" group at 100 yards is still a 1.5" radial dispersion from group center--plenty good enough to hit the boiler room you specify. Since WWII or thereabouts, a lot of printer's ink has flowed to pronounce the 30-30 obsolete, outdated, over-rated, under-achieving, inaccurate, low-powered, and worse. I'm glad that muleys and whitetails don't subscribe to "Guns & Whatever" magazine, 'cause the caliber still works--and it would be a bad thing indeed if both the hunters AND their quarry were so badly misinformed. EVERY deer I've taken could have been very capably downed by the 30-30, and 3 of the 8 actually were--including my first at age 13.

Don't sweat the wide dispersion from your offhand shooting. Rome wasn't built in a day, just get comfy with that Old Savage and you'll make venison if the goddess of the hunt smiles upon thee.
I foresee you enjoying some venison stew this winter courtesy of 'Old Savage', cause there ain't nuthin' wrong with those 100 yard offhand groups, and we both know that the .30-30 (Amurica's cottidge) will put 'em down, sir!