Tell me about the 9x57 and 9.3x57 Mauser

[am44mag]

The small ring Mauser build thread has got me thinking that I want a classic bolt action hunting rifle. My original plan was to buy a barreled Spanish Mauser action and dress it up, make it look nice, and possible have the barrel rebored to 35-300 Savage if possible. That was before I found out from RustyReel that I could buy a classic 9x57 or 9.3x57 rifle for much cheaper than I could build a gun off one of those actions.

So tell me about these rounds. They sound like they would be great for whitetail, and I've been wanting to start casting for .35 cal.

[sharps4590]

I have two 9 X 57's, one in a Sauer & Sohn Mauser and the other the 9 X 57R in a Franz Jaeger drilling and a Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57. They are quite similar other than the 9.3 gives you the choice of a heavier bullet if only .011 larger in diameter. The 9.3 was evidently very popular for some time in Scandinavia for what we call moose and I can't imagine it would not be effective on that size game. For that matter I believe the 9 X 57 would be as well.

The velocities are not barn burners with either cartridge with jacketed bullets but.....frankly high velocity isn't needed, IMO. With gas checked, cast loads I want to remember all 3 of mine are running between 1700 and 1800 fps. which I consider more than adequate. I don't remember how available components are. I made my 9 X 57R brass from a surfeit of 7 X 57R brass I had on hand and the 9 X 57 rimless from -06 cases. The 9.3 X 57 brass was also made from -06 cases. If the 9.3 you're looking at is a Husqvarna, very underrated rifles in my opinion, bear in mind they usually have a fairly tight throat and a slightly loose bore which makes shooting cast bullets an interesting proposition. I ended up thinning the necks to just about the minimum in mine so I could shoot cast bullet....but it excels with them after having done so......and I hope I didn't get that backwards. Oh...I just remembered my 9 X 57 Sauer has a pretty washy bore in front of the chamber for a few inches and it won't shoot cast worth spit. My 9 X 57R looks as if it was made a couple years ago and shoots cast excellently. There is not an abundance of data available for either cartridge but there's certainly more than enough to come up with a good load. I've had good luck with Unique, IMR or H 4895 and I think SR-4759...if you have some around. No doubt there's other powders that would work well. Several mold makers offer molds of varying weights and designs. In my 9 X 57 I'm shooting the RCBS, 35-200FN sized accordingly. In the 9.3 I went with an Accurate mold of around 270 grs. Both have a meplat commensurate with bullet diameter.

I'm a fickle sort and can never pick a favorite. At this particular moment in time I'd lean toward the 9.3 but that might change by the time I get to town for Saturday morning breakfast with the guys.....lol My thought is if you find a rifle you like in either cartridge don't be afraid to get it. Either makes a fine medium game cartridge with cast or jacketed loads and, as with the -06 case, the X57 case is never wrong. I think you'd probably like either one.

[MT Gianni]

The Winchester 53 was available in 9x57 occasionally called "9mm rifle" in old loading books. I understand the Model 70 was also chambered in this round but it may have been with leftover barrels from the 53 as it is a very rare chambering to find. The knock on them was the thin barrels due to barrel blanks used at the time. Heating issues caused POA movement and loss of accuracy. The fact is they were never meant to be range guns, just game killers. Lack of quality 35 bore bullets did them in, IMO.
While I would love to have one, IMP a 358 or 35 Whelen gives one easier brass access, better ballistics, [unless you go with a custom gun] and a prayer of finding factory ammo if the airline looses yours.

[am44mag]

I've always been a sucker for oddball calibers. One look in my safe would tell you that. I'm not too concerned with the ballistics. If I want to reach out and touch something, I doubt there very many animals in North America that could take a 6.5 creedmoor to the boiler room and keep on moving. I want a classic bolt action. Express sights, or maybe a Lyman peep sight, and I want it to be a "brush" gun. Within the limits that I hunt, 9.3x57 seems great. I already looked into brass, and converting 30-06 seems like my best option. Lord know I have enough of that laying around.

The one I'm looking at is a Husqvarna Model 46. If I do run into the tight throat loose bore issue, you I be able to simply ream it out an enlarge the throat to something that works, or is thinning the necks of my cartridges the only option? I was thinking of using a PB NOE 368-280-FN for it. It looks like it would be a great game getter.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_368-280-FN_(PB)_Sketch.Jpg

[texasnative46]

am44mag,

Fwiw, while I have very little experience with the pair of 9/9.3x57mm rounds, I have a TMN classmate who has a pre-WWII Mauser-actioned sporter in 9.3x57mm & he has taken any number of elk, moose & bears with it in Canada & AK.
Thomas is not a CB lover but he loads a 285 grain JHP (Nosler, I think as is the usual factory bullet for the 9.3x62mm & the 9.3x74R) at near .30-06 velocity.
He further says that most of the available US loads (in the rare event that they are available here at all, in the USA) are "down-loaded" to about the same level as Remington 8x57mm ammo usually is. He stated that the 9.3x57mm, in a strong action, can be safely loaded to equal the (well-regarded in African game fields) .333 Jeffery's Rimless & is therefore "suitable" for most all African game.

yours, tex

[Jeff Michel]

9.3 is a good game round. For brass, I use 8x57 PPU. Imperial lube and full length resize in 9.3x57 resizing die.

[2152hq]

I have one Haenel Mannlicher New Model in 9x57Mauser.
The only cast loads I've played around with are cast pistol bullets and small doses of Bullseye. Fun and accurate at 50m.
With jacketed bullets it does what most any 35cal rifle round will do in that size. It's been compared many times to the 358Winchester and some even use that rounds loading data as a starting point. I did also. I keep mine very conservative anyway.
I think the 358Winchester would be a 9x51mm if I'm not mistaken and that's a pretty darn good cartridge.

The other Haenel New Model WAS a 9.3x57. but as someone rechambered it to 35 Whelen!,,it was a very cheap price!
Yes it has a 35Whelen chamber and a .366 bore. I tried some handloads w/cast 200gr just for giggles, and that was about what I got.
The bore is trash or nearly so anyway. My thoughts were to go to a 375-06 or 400 Whelen. But that's another story as it sits in the corner.

The 9x57 is nice as there are plenty of pistol bullets that'll work in the round if you are in to that sort of light load/gallery load thing.
The old 158gr RNL works nicely through the action.

Most Euro guns have smaller groove dia, around .355/.356 than what we generaly bbl up guns for now at .358. So jacketed stuff may cause a little tinkering to be done. But cast boolets of 357 seem to work great in them.

9x57Mauser loading dies are expensive. Generally $85 and up for a 2 die set. That's one drawback.
They are not on the mfg'rs A list of calibers.
9.3x57 and it's bigger bro 9.3x62 are usually easy to find and priced in the $35 range.

I lucked out w/a set of RCBS 9x57 dies for $10 at a show. Doesn't happen to me often though.
I make 9x57 from 8x57 with one pass in the FL die.

So take your pick, they are both quite classic and usefull rounds, even if you're like me and only pursue paper targets now.

If I were to build a sporter on a SR pre98 again, I'd seriously consider 9x57 one more time.

[texasnative46]

Jeff Michel,

Fwiw, I paid 15.oo including free S&H on ebay for my NOS set of 9.3x62 RCBS dies & the same vendor had the 57mm dies for 20 bucks then, too.

Also, Jessie at JES will do a FINE job on reboring/rechambering your Mauser to any suitable caliber. = His work is reasonable in price, quick turnaround & FAULTLESS.
(I have a pair of rifles that he reformatted & am planning to send him a third Model 760 to be remodeled to .400BWI. = I've found one, on the cheap, in .270WCF that has a BADLY PITTED barrel.)

yours, tex

[texasnative46]

am44mag,

It's now 2100 hours on Sat night. = Check your mail, PLEASE.

yours, tex

[sharps4590]

am, that's a good looking bullet and I can't imagine any NA game it wouldn't take with aplomb.

My Husky 9.3 is a Mod. 46 and I can't say enough good about it. It is completely original and in remarkable condition for what I paid for it. If the one you're looking at and possibly acquire suffers from the same throat/bore condition as mine, I can't see any reason opening the throat wouldn't be a more viable solution than thinning the necks. Frankly, opening the throat never occurred to me, good idea. I guess it didn't occur to me because it was so easy to chuck up the brass in my lathe and take off a bit.

I have a couple Mauser's that had Lyman, I think 48's, installed sometime in their distant past. I sure like 'em!!!! Especially the older my eyes become. On both of mine a taller front sight was needed but neither are Husqvarna. One is a Johann Peterlongo in 9 X 71 Peterlongo, (What a rifle and cartridge. Take a back seat 35 Whelen!), and the other is a Strover Mauser in 8 X 57. Not as finely finished as the Peterlongo but has everything a person could ask for in an immediately post WWI German sporter.

[vzerone]

I too have a Husky 9.3x57 and my throat just barely takes a large enough bullet using the thin neck 8x57 brass to be large enough over groove size to work very well indeed. It's an amazingly accurate rifle. Mine is all original too and very good condition. Some things go mention. The barrel is gawd awful long at 26 inches and the buttstock is gawd awful long too at 15 some inches. Those folks over there that made sure didn't believe in having much forearm wood on them either. The workmanship is top notch. All I can say I wish I had this rifle for deer hunting as I was growing up. Couldn't ask for a better deer slammer.

[Landy88]

My analogy to explain the 9.3x57 to those new to it is that, its to moose what a 30-30 is to deer.

That was its purpose in its homeland; and its velocities are about the same, with 100 grains more lead and a bit more diameter.

[samari46]

i have a 1928 version built on a pre war FN 98 action. Bore is frosty but lands and grooves look great. Gonna glass bed the front receiver ring and lug then the tang. Then start shooting it. factory velocities are around 2000-2100 feet per second. This with the 286 grain PPU softpoints. Will be using IMR 4895 as that seems to be the powder of choice. not one to push the envelope regarding velcities so shooting for 2000-2100 feet per second.Frank

[Traffer]

My analogy to explain the 9.3x57 to those new to it is that, its to moose what a 30-30 is to deer.

That was its purpose in its homeland; and its velocities are about the same, with 100 grains more lead and a bit more diameter.

For a noob like me that explanation cuts right to the chase. Thanks.

[am44mag]

I think I am pretty well sold on the 9.3x57mm. Probably what I'll do is get the gun and get the basic reloading tools and a box or two of j-words to get started on it. I'll cast the chamber and figure out if I need to invest in the neck turning tools. Thanks fellas for the info and the tips. This is why I love this place! :D

[RustyReel]

am44mag

Seems I've created another guy I have to compete with for cool things that pop-up on Simpsons:D:D It's a neat place and I check it at least once every time I am on the 'puter. New stuff that is a great buy/unique/etc get grabbed up quickly so if you see something pop up that you might like, call immediately and talk about it with the sales guys. They haven't listed any Husky bolt guns for a while so you can take your time and look over the pics and the descriptions carefully.

I have a couple of 9.3x57's and a 9.3x62. The 57's are a small ring military type action and an FN type 98 action. The 98 is original and the SR has been altered for scope. There is not a lot of "published" load data for the 9.3x57. There is a bunch on the Swedish rifle threads on another forum site. It has been consolidated (ie jumbled together) and the discussion wanders on several occasions so you have to read it carefully, but there is some good info there.

I don't hunt anymore, only shooting for fun. I use cast from the only Lyman mold of that size I am aware of, 366408 that cast about 250 grains. Got it on an auction here and I was the only person interested in it. I opened up a Lee 359 push thru sizer to .368 (yeah, took a while) and PC the boolits. There is a guy on here, I think coyotehunter??? that has a bunch of 286 grain jacketed that he sells on occasion. Unmarked but I'm guessing they are Norma. I used 8x57 R-P brass necked up. I haven't had an issue with it and no worries about putting one in your 8x57. Hornady dies were the only reasonably priced dies I could find.

Then there is the 9.3x62. Brass, dies and data readily available. Often find it chambered in the same rifles as the 9.3x57 (those rifles go QUICK!). It is a thumper. I think it kicks more than my 375 H&H, but that's just me.

Have fun and be safe!

[sharps4590]

I know there are others but for molds my "go to" has become Accurate Molds. Rusty, does Lyman still make that mold? If not, I bet finding that one was fortuitous!!!

My dies are CH-4D and when I got mine they had them in stock. I don't believe I knew Hornady even made them and I expect they are less costly than CH-4D.

When it comes to Simpson's Rusty nailed it!! It seems there's someone sitting on their front step waiting for a truck to arrive. If you don't catch some things the day they arrive, they're sold!!! Good outfit but don't hesitate to pull the trigger....

I think Graf's has some 286 gr. PPU bullets for the 9.3 for a good price. Maybe I should say "had" as I haven't looked in a while. I bought 100 just to have on hand and did load a box of 20. They shot good though I have read of less than desirable performance on game with them. Take that for what you paid for it as I have no personal experience with them on game.

[Landy88]

That only Hornady dies are readily and affordably available is a bonus not a deprivation, that elliptical expander makes necking up from 8 to 9.3 very nearly as easy as is simply fl sizing.

Because of its lessor capacity than the 62 and 64, the best j bullet for the 57 is the no longer made Speer 250 - I've a small stash, but would love to find some more. Velocity with 286s is a bit low, and you know that the jackets were likely designed for its faster sisters. Cast is likely the best heavy bullet option.

[texasnative46]

Landy88,

ImVho, for other than ELEPHANT (I'll never take a tusker.) & perhaps GAUR & CAPE BUFFALO, a "heavy for caliber", relatively hard-cast GCCB, at the maximum velocity that will work well in your rifle, is likely suitable for all big game in the 9.3x62mm.
(My friend Roy, the home missionary that I've mentioned elsewhere here, shot a LARGE/HUNGRY Polar Bear with his 9.3x62mm Husky INSIDE the Christian Life Center at the church, during a bridal shower. Roy said that the bullet entered the neck area of the bear & exited the right side of the bear just in front of the right rear leg. = GYD.)

Note: Roy notified the ASP & an AK game ranger responded to the report. He said that the shooting was fully justified & that the meat could be distributed to the local hungry folks. = Several hundred pounds was given away to "local eaters".

yours, tex

[RPRNY]

9x57, slightly more robust than the .358 Winchester but more rather than less similar. There's a piece on Norma brass in the latest edition of Handloader that discusses the two a bit. The 9.3 x 57 is rather like the amp in "This is Spinal Tap", as in "it goes to 11". Really a question of whether you like .356" bullets or .366" bullets...

Great cartridges and, as someone above noted, a fantastic moose/elk/bear cartridge as long as distances don't get too long.

[Landy88]

Tex,

I've been to some wedding receptions that got a bit wild, but not that wild.

You are right about the 9.3x62's well established record and versatility; but, while the 9, 9.3, and 9.5x57s are a bit more specialized for more modest ranges and less dangerous game, they are still quite good rounds in some awfully nice old rifles.

Landy

[Landy88]

For a noob like me that explanation cuts right to the chase. Thanks.

You're welcome.

I guess that I should elaborate that it's mild enough not to be out of place for the deer, either. So very often 57mms is enough while, yet, very seldom too much.

[texasnative46]

Landy88,

Jennifer (Roy's, then 20YO, daughter, who was home from college at that time) opined, "Daddy you really didn't have to shoot her. 'Mrs. White Bear' just wanted to attend the bridal shower."
(Then she LOL, as Jennifer is AK-born/raised. = Nothing much fazes her.)

Btw, I fully agree that the 9x57 & 9.3x57mm are OFTEN chambered in FINE quality rifles & that are sometimes for sale at LOW prices here in the USA. Nonetheless, I seriously doubt that I'll buy either for 2 reasons:
1. Left-hand European rifles are SCARCE & if available at all are $$$$$$.
and
2. I already have the circa 1968 Remington Model 760 in 9.3x62mm that JES remodeled for me. - I can load the 760 to be suitable for anything from TX jackrabbits & up.
(The 250 grain PBCB at about 1200-1400FPS is A KILLER on "medium game" & WILL kill WT too. = That big hunk of lead generally passes through the body of an animal, from any angle exits the body, leaving LITTLE edible meat "bloodshot" and/or the pelt much damaged. = A pair of .368 caliber holes are EASY to sew back up.)

Incidentally, I'm told that the market hunters of Northern Europe use a relatively mild load to take MOOSE & other Northern game for sale in the meat markets & in many fine restaurants.
(Blood-shot meat doesn't sell well & since the quarry is shot at close range, after being cornered by hounds, a properly placed mild load accomplishes that task well.)

yours, tex

[am44mag]

Welp, I think I have all my ducks in a row. I should be able to get the rifle and the reloading supplies within the month. I have definitely settled on the 9.3x57mm. I'm working on getting a list of possible reloading recipes, and I'll probably order some Hornady dies and a box of 285gr Prvi Partizan SPs just to get my foot in the door (will give me a chance to shoot the gun and do a chamber cast before I invest in the stuff to neck turn and cast bullets for it). This just might be my deer rifle for this year. :D


Note: Roy notified the ASP & an AK game ranger responded to the report. He said that the shooting was fully justified & that the meat could be distributed to the local hungry folks. = Several hundred pounds was given away to "local eaters".

yours, tex

I've always admired Alaskans for their refusal to let anything useful go to waste.

[am44mag]

Oh, I was going to ask. I have heard that 358 Winchester data can be used in 9.3x57 due to their similarities, and that the 358 data would result in slightly lower pressures in the 9.3 due to it's increased bullet diameter. Assuming I work up the loads and chrony them (as you should do), would this be a recommended thing to do? If so, that would give me more options, at least up to 250gr.

H4895 seems to be the go to powder from what I can find.

PriviPartisan 285gr. RN's - 45.0gr. H4895 - 2,200fps

293gr. TUG's - 45.0gr. H4895

270gr. Speer SemiRN - 48.0gr. H4895 - 3.045" OAL - 2,268fps

[samari46]

If you desire to shoot cast bullets in the 9.3x57 definitely slug the barrel. Don't have the numbers handy on mine but the throat is .370, bore was .368 and top of the lands was .356 which means the lands are .006 high. For jacketed bullets might be no problem but would need at least a .370 cast bullet. Frank

[2152hq]

If you are shooting a 9.3cal,,you can also try using 9mmMakarov pistol bullets over a small load of fast burners like Bullseye, RedDot or Unique for a Gallery load. The 9mmMakarov bullet is .365/.366d
I use the 95gr JHP Hornady in my 9.3x74R for a fun load. Very accurate out at 50M and enjoyable to shoot even for the kids.
I use RedDot in that load.
A cast number for them would be neat too.

I'm sure some of the rifles in these calibers have over or under size bores, so the proposition may not always work well, but it has in many instances.

[texasnative46]

am44mag,

Sounds like an excellent plan to me. = Best wishes on using your "new to you" rifle.

yours, tex

[Wayne Smith]

Humm, have 9.3x57 Husky bought last year that is very accurate with the Privi bullets while fireforming 8x57 brass, have had for years 9mmMak mold that I have used in the Mak and CZ82. Maybe I need to think about a marriage, or at least an arrangement between them.

[500Linebaughbuck]

i luv this thread!!! i'm thinking about buying a husky model 46 in 9.3x57 from simpsons.

[sharps4590]

am, find a good one and I can't believe you won't be tickled to death. I don't remember my exact loads but the ones you list are hotter than what I use. Not by a lot. If possible I use the most mild load that will shoot accurately and to the sights but, that's just one man's practice.

For you guys who necked up 8 X 57 brass, are you able to shoot cast without turning the necks? I have wondered about that but have yet to try it, thinking the neck might get thin enough just from necking it up? Sure would save a lot of work!

[Wayne Smith]

Sorry, haven't cast with that mold yet.

[Landy88]

For you guys who necked up 8 X 57 brass, are you able to shoot cast without turning the necks? I have wondered about that but have yet to try it, thinking the neck might get thin enough just from necking it up? Sure would save a lot of work!

Mine is still slightly too tight for cast at the neck even with necked up 8x57. Cutting either the chamber or the brass seems inescapable with many of these early Husqies.

[sharps4590]

Thank you Landy. Your response has been my experience. Would a fella have to have a reamer ground to open the throat? I dabble with my lathe but real machine work gets outta my pay grade pretty quick!

[Landy88]

Thank you Landy. Your response has been my experience. Would a fella have to have a reamer ground to open the throat? I dabble with my lathe but real machine work gets outta my pay grade pretty quick!

And cutting on rifles is mostly beyond my pay grade.

I'll stick to thinning the brass - RCBS, for one, has mandrels for their hand neck turner.

[Landy88]

It is a big stretch but necking up 7x57 might be worth a try for thinner necks.

[am44mag]

It is a big stretch but necking up 7x57 might be worth a try for thinner necks.

If I come across some, I'll have to try that.

[sharps4590]

I also wondered about 7 X 57 but all I have is 7 X 57R....and I'm pretty stingy with it. Never know when that nice kiplauf in 7 x 57R is gonna show up somewhere.

[Catpop]

I once had a 9.3 x 72R drilling come thru the shop. That was a cool experience working on it!

[sharps4590]

That's quite a bit different and a bit older cartridge. 'Course, it's still being loaded today and works as good as it ever did. I have an old German single shot built on a Jones underlever in 9.3 x 62R which is based off the 9.3 X 72R and it's been a dandy rifle/cartridge combination.

[Catpop]

Sharps4590,
The gun was kinda heavy and shot like a big 22! I think I had to make a mainspring for it. Been too long ago!
I did read there were 5 different cartridges based on the same case separated only by oal- 9.3 x 57, 62, 72, but can’t remember the other two. I think the 72 was the longest.
It was fun.

[sharps4590]

The 9.3 X 82R was the longest. I used it to form the cases for my 9.3 X 75R Nimrod. I can't remember if there was a 5th but I believe you're correct. I'm not certain if the 9.3 X 57RD was the same as the X57R on the X72R case but it was also known as the 360 Express by the British. All are pretty good cartridges, for their intended purpose.

[Landy88]

That .360 Express version was / is of special interest to we, here, who tailor loads for both big and small game as one of only a very few offered that way in factory loads. It came in a load not much more than a .38 Special and one much like a heavy .38-55.

[sharps4590]

Ha...I was completely ignorant of the two loads in the 360 Express. I assume by the name the loads were loaded in the British version? I'm more familiar with the German load than the British and I don't recall the Germans loaded two different loads, or at least that different, no?

[Landy88]

Yes, the 360 had a 134 grain at about 1000 (maybe less that many .38 Spc. loads, instead of more) and and a 300 at about 1700. Technically, one was nitro for black and one Nitro Express; but same cartridge, and both fine in any NE rifle.

[am44mag]

Been doing some thinking. Would IMR 4320 work for 9.3x57? I use the heck out of that stuff, and it's burn rate is pretty close to many of the powders that you can find 9.3 data for. Not sure where to start with 4320 though.

[Wayne Smith]

Tom Myers posted loads for the 9.3x57 for IMR4350 and WW760 with the 286gr bullet on the Quickloads thread in Reloading Equipment. I thank him for doing this.

[10x]

Take a gander at this thread

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?365726-9-3-x-57-load-data&highlight=9.3x57