32 Colt Police Positive

[mullthing]

I have a Colt 32 Police Positive revolver. I understand 32 Long and Short will work well in this gun. I also understand the SW 32 is a different caliber and will not work in my pistol.

However, will 32 Colt New Police Positive ammo work in my Police Positive revolver? Thanks for any thoughts in advance.

[NoZombies]

I've seen Police positive revolvers in both .32 colt, and in .32 Colt New Police. .32 New Police was a cartridge that colt 'invented' so that they wouldn't have the put the name of a competitor on their guns, and the .32 NP cartridge is dimensionally and balistically interchangeable with the .32 S&W long. If a gun is chambered for the .32 new police cartridge, using .32 S&W long is 100% acceptable. The only difference at the time from a practical standpoint was that the S&W cartridge was factory loaded with a RN bullet, and the .32 NP cartridge was loaded with a FN bullet.

If the gun you have is in fact chambered for .32 colt (long or short) there is no other interchangeable CF ammo.

[mullthing]

I've seen Police positive revolvers in both .32 colt, and in .32 Colt New Police. .32 New Police was a cartridge that colt 'invented' so that they wouldn't have the put the name of a competitor on their guns, and the .32 NP cartridge is dimensionally and balistically interchangeable with the .32 S&W long. If a gun is chambered for the .32 new police cartridge, using .32 S&W long is 100% acceptable. The only difference at the time from a practical standpoint was that the S&W cartridge was factory loaded with a RN bullet, and the .32 NP cartridge was loaded with a FN bullet.

If the gun you have is in fact chambered for .32 colt (long or short) there is no other interchangeable CF ammo.

Most helpful NoZombies. I felt like you what stated was the case, you just confirmed my research.

[Texas by God]

I once owned a Police Positive .32 Colt New Police and .32 S&W long is all I ever shot in it. Such a neat revolver.

[Outpost75]

If your Colt is the Police Positive with the Colt Positive Lock, and has the 1905 patent date on the barrel, it is chambered for the .32 Colt New Police, which is dimensionally interchangible with the .32 S&W Long.

If your Colt is the earlier New Police or New Pocket model, NOT having the 1905 patent date on the barrel, then it is chambered for the .32 Long Colt.

[Harry O]

What EXACTLY does the caliber say on the barrel. If it says .32 NP or .32 Police, it is the same as the S&W Long/Short version. There are several other stamps for .32LC. One is .32 (that is all). Another is .32 Colt. I believe I have seen a few other stamps, but cannot remember them now. These will NOT work with .32 S&W Short or Long.

[35remington]

If your model is the 32 Long iteration, the shorter 32 Smith and Wesson cartridges will work and shoot reasonably well, but in both my own Colt PP and Smith Regulation Police the 32 Smith and Wesson factory load has an annoying tendency to lead up the front end of the chamber before the leade. Handloads are not much better in this regard when the short cases are used.

This has relegated the use of the short cases to infrequent use as I dislike scrubbing lead out of cylinders. The use of an oversized brush with Chore Boy copper strips entwined is needed, and life is too short for much of that.

[mullthing]

What EXACTLY does the caliber say on the barrel. If it says .32 NP or .32 Police, it is the same as the S&W Long/Short version. There are several other stamps for .32LC. One is .32 (that is all). Another is .32 Colt. I believe I have seen a few other stamps, but cannot remember them now. These will NOT work with .32 S&W Short or Long.


The barrel states POLICE POSITIVE 32 POLICE CTG

[NoZombies]

The barrel states POLICE POSITIVE 32 POLICE CTG

Good news. You can fire the .32 S&W long or short cartridges in that gun, as it was chambered for them.

[mullthing]

220278220278
Good news. You can fire the .32 S&W long or short cartridges in that gun, as it was chambered for them.

Not what I expected to hear, but can I fire the New Police Positive brass I just purchased on this site? Here's why I asking. Just received the brass today and brass seems to be tab big larger than what I should chamber. Now I do not know if brass is simply too large or once I resize the brass I'm good to go.

[mullthing]

220282220281Pic of ammo and brass I'm referring to are attached.

[NoZombies]

I would imagine the brass was fired in a generous chamber, and once properly resized, it should be good to go.

[mullthing]

And, I'm trying to avoid dies and other components for a 32 Colt Long or Short. The 32 S&W are easily located whereas the 32 Colt's not so easy.

[Outpost75]

If you have .32 ACP dies, they will work for. 32 S&W Long or Colt New Police with the correct shell holder.
Accurate 31-105T is same shape as original New Police and .32 WCF bullets with double crimp groove. Seat out long using rear crimp groove with 2.2-2.3 grains of Bullseye for .32 Colt New Police, or seat deeper and crimp in front crimp groove in .32-20 brass with 3.4-3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .32-20 Police Positive and S&W Hand Ejector. Cast bullets 1:30 tin-lead and size .314"

220300220301

[NoZombies]

And, I'm trying to avoid dies and other components for a 32 Colt Long or Short. The 32 S&W are easily located whereas the 32 Colt's not so easy.

Correct, the .32 colt dies are harder to find and generally expensive when you do. Standard .32 S&W Long dies will suffice, as will dies for .32 H&R magnum, and most dies for .327 magnum (just a longer version of the case). Almost any bullet between 75 and 115 grains and sized roughly .313 should do well in the gun, though for most of the old Colt's I've messed with, a 90-100 grain bullet seems to shoot to the sights better than the lighter or heavier options.

[mullthing]

Correct, the .32 colt dies are harder to find and generally expensive when you do. Standard .32 S&W Long dies will suffice, as will dies for .32 H&R magnum, and most dies for .327 magnum (just a longer version of the case). Almost any bullet between 75 and 115 grains and sized roughly .313 should do well in the gun, though for most of the old Colt's I've messed with, a 90-100 grain bullet seems to shoot to the sights better than the lighter or heavier options.

I've never shot this .32 as it's a family gun and is in very nice shape. I load for rifles often, but never pistols so I assume the principals are the same. Your comments are most welcome and overly helpful.

[Guesser]

My Colt revolvers chambered for 32 Colt, L & S, are marked 32 Colt and the other is marked 32 D.A.. The D.A. is a Transition model from New Pocket to Pocket Positive, it is labeled with both logos, consequently it is known as a "transition Model. Colt last chambered anything 32 Colt, L & S, during WW I. After WW I all Colts in 32 Police and 32 New Police would accept 32 S&W, L & S.
My 32 Colt revolvers date to 1907 and 1910

[Green Frog]

I've never shot this .32 as it's a family gun and is in very nice shape. I load for rifles often, but never pistols so I assume the principals are the same. Your comments are most welcome and overly helpful.

If you’ve ever loaded any metallic cartridges, you will find the 32 S&W Long (or whatever it’s called on your cases) to be the easiest thing to load you’ve ever experienced. Other than finding components and a set of dies, the only “problem,” if there is one, will be getting fumble fingered with the little components. I really like my Lyman TruLine Jr for these little guys... the proportion and scale seem to be just right. ;)

Froggie

[JoeJames]

I would not say in my case, that it is the easiest thing to load. But, I am used to loading 44 Special and 38 Special. When you get down to 32 S&W Long and Bullseye powder - 2 - 2.2 grains just dusts the pan. I found myself using my powder trickler in conjunction with my powder measure all the time; as it is tough to get the exact measure otherwise. On the other hand Trail Boss does help, and when the case is filled with Trail Boss to just beneath the bottom of the bullet when seated = 2 grains of Trail Boss' I get an average of 680 fps with a 4" S&W Hand Ejector.

[Tatume]

The Colt and S&W versions differed in bullet style, but are interchangeable.

[Tatume]

"The .32 S&W Long, also known as 7.65x23mm, is a straight-walled, centerfire, rimmed handgun cartridge, based on the earlier .32 S&W cartridge. It was introduced in 1896 for Smith & Wesson's first-model Hand Ejector revolver. Colt called it the .32 Colt New Police in revolvers it made chambered for the cartridge."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_S%26W_Long

[mullthing]

Thanks for the input. Picked up some 32 S&W Longs, not shot them yet, but they fit like a glove.

[JoeJames]

Thanks for the input. Picked up some 32 S&W Longs, not shot them yet, but they fit like a glove.I chronographed some Fiocchi brand 32 wadcutters, and they were running 560, 597 and 597 fps in my 4" S&W kitgun.

[Outpost75]

Here is my chronograph data of typical .32 S&W Long loads fired in revolvers and in a cobbled up "rook rifle."

.32 S&W Long Factory Vs. Handloads In Revolvers and H&R “Bunny Rifle”

Remington cases, Federal 200 primers in all handloads:

Ammo Type________________Colt 2”__________Colt 4”___________H&R18”

PMC 98 LRN factory_________687, 13 Sd_______797, 17Sd________945, 16 Sd
Highest velocity factory load__103 ft-lbs._______138 ft.lbs.________194 ft.-lbs.

Remington 98 LRN factory_____645, 20 Sd______729, 12 Sd________899, 11 Sd
Western 98 LRN factory (1960s)_643, 19 Sd_____658, 22 Sd________912, 17 Sd
Privi-Partisan 98 LRN__________656, 28 Sd______675, 11 Sd_______917, 21 Sd

Accurate 31-087T, 2.5 BE______662, 16 Sd______780, 22 Sd_______1000, 15 Sd
Shoots to the fixed sights______84-ft.-lbs._______117 ft.-lbs.______193 ft.-lbs.
Accurate 31-090B, 2.5 BE______731, 26 Sd_______773, 11 Sd______1066, 16 Sd
Shoots to the fixed sights_______106 ft.-lbs.______119 ft.lbs.______227 ft.-lbs.

These charges should not be exceeded in pre-WW2 revolvers.

[JoeJames]

My hand loads for the 32S&W Long shot in my S&W 32 Hand ejector 5th, and my S&W 631 32 H&R Magnum, all of course in 32 S&W Long cases. Bullseye powder, and Trail Boss (I was interested in how Trail Boss would do) and 98 grain lead SWC's. The 631 is a 4", and the hand ejector is 4 1/4". The velocity was therefore quite similar:

2.0 grains of Bullseye - 659, 642, 665, 559, 641, and 672 fps
2.1* grains of Bullseye - 694, 681, 689, 636, 681, and 684 fps
2.2 grains of Bullseye - 625, 757, 760, 702, 741, and 721 fps
* appeared to be the most accurate load

1.5 grains of Trail Boss - 527, 520, 555, 511, and 493 fps
2.0** grains of Trail Boss - 694, 687, 645, 705, and 673 fps

** 2.0 grains of Trail Boss appears to fill the case to just shy of the swc base. It was also the most accurate.

[LIMPINGJ]

Saw really nice looking Colt Police Positive with 1905 patent date. Made around 1910-1912 by serial number. Barrel is marked 32 COLT. They didn’t have any 32 S&W Long to try and see if it fit, does anyone know with this information if this is chambered for the 32Colt New Police/32S&W Long or the hard to find 32Colt?
Thanks

[Guesser]

LIMPINGJ 32 Colt will be 32 Colt and 32 Long Colt. The last revolvers chambered in 32 Colt were done in the WW I time frame, I have been told that 1913 was the end. But I have never seen verification of that date. I have a 1910 Police Positive and a 1907 New Pocket/Pocket Positive transition model; marked for both models. Both guns are 32 Colt and a pleasure to shoot and no......32 S&W Long Or Short won't chamber in 32 Colt unless the chambers have been reamed to 32 N.P.. I have seen that done a few times, mainly because of ammo availability.

[LIMPINGJ]

I would bring it home if I could use 32S&W Long in it. Wish Starline would offer the 32 Colt brass.

[LIMPINGJ]

Went by and saw that this revolver was still in the case. With the mention of some owners reaming to use 32 S&W Long by Guesser has anyone done this? Any idea on cost? It would get a nice revolver back in service.

[Outpost75]

Went by and saw that this revolver was still in the case. With the mention of some owners reaming to use 32 S&W Long by Guesser has anyone done this? Any idea on cost? It would get a nice revolver back in service.

Rifling bore and groove dimensions of .32 Long Colt are altogether too tight to rechamber the cylinder for .32 S&W Long or Colt New Police, you'd be cramming a .314 bullet down a .300" groove diameter barrel and would likely split the very thin barrel forcing cone on that model in attempting to do so.

Unless you can substantiate that it really chambered for .32 Colt New Police and not .32 Long Colt, I would let it pass. Chamber diameter of .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police is .338 and the .32 Long Colt .308. Would be easy to verify with plug gages.

[LIMPINGJ]

Thanks Outpost75, it’s a shame brass is the downfall of these fine revolvers.

[rintinglen]

In point of fact, the specs for the 32 long colt indicate a .318 diameter case, with a .305 bore and a .311 groove. This as compared to a .337 diameter case, a .303 bore and a .312 groove for the 32 New Police. A problem still exists in the path of would-be re-chamberers in that the .32 Long Colt chamber specification was .320, end to end, with no throat. See Page 294 of HANDLOADING by Wm. C Davis, NRA publications 1981. See also SAAMI, Pistols and revolvers, pp 152, 154. I therefore would have no qualms about rechambering a Police Positive to shoot the 32 S&W Long/ 32 New Police, but I would expect accuracy to be pretty poor unless I could find or make some hollow base .312 boolits.

[Green Frog]

The mention once again by Outpost 75 of his “Bunny Rifle” has my addled froggie brain kicking over once again... I really “need” such a gun to make my life complete. :coffee:

I had a Winchester low wall (one of the smooth side, leaf mainspring examples) rechambered and its block bushed to CF with the idea of shooting 32 H&R in what had been a 32 rim fire (which of course is the RF equivalent to the old 32 Colt. I got pretty good results out to 50 feet (the length of my range that Summer) loading those little half jacketed 30 Carbine bullets - I think they called them “Plinker” bullets, but it really didn’t seem to like my 3118 bullets in soft lead. :?

Anyway, as with all good things, I let it get away from me, but there are still a few of those old 32 RF low walls kicking around, and if I were to recline one with a proper .313” liner...:Bright idea:

Well, the results just might be more gratifying and I might just keep this one. :bigsmyl2:

Froggie

[John Boy]

Wish Starline would offer the 32 Colt brass.
https://www.rccbrass.com/product/32-long-colt/

[Outpost75]

In point of fact, the specs for the 32 long colt indicate a .318 diameter case, with a .305 bore and a .311 groove. This as compared to a .337 diameter case, a .303 bore and a .312 groove for the 32 New Police. A problem still exists in the path of would-be re-chamberers in that the .32 Long Colt chamber specification was .320, end to end, with no throat. See Page 294 of HANDLOADING by Wm. C Davis, NRA publications 1981. See also SAAMI, Pistols and revolvers, pp 152, 154. I therefore would have no qualms about rechambering a Police Positive to shoot the 32 S&W Long/ 32 New Police, but I would expect accuracy to be pretty poor unless I could find or make some hollow base .312 boolits.

Thanks for the corrected info. My old eyeballs were looking at dimensions of the .32 Long rimfire, my bad...

[Guesser]

I've slugged the bore on a 1910 Police Positive 32 Colt; it won't chamber 32 S&W; and I slugged the bore on a 1917 Police Positive in 32 Police CTG (32 S&W). The slugs from both measured the same using a 0-1" micrometer, .312". I have cast bullets, heeled style for 32 Colt, the bore riding segment of the bullet measures .313 and I size all my bullets for 32 S&W and Long, 32 H&R Magnum, 327 F.M. and 32-20 .313. Based on my guns and the bore slugs I see no reason not to rechamber if one is so inclined. I'm not inclined as I have a very good supply of 32 Short Colt and 32 Long Colt ammunition, brass and bullets for my Colts so chambered.

[35remington]

“The bore riding segment of the bullet measures .313.”

The bore riding section of the bullet, if present, fits between the rifling lands without being substantially engraved by them. The diameter of the barrel between the lands is the bore diameter, thus “riding the bore.” The bore diameter in this case being about .305.”

The part of the bullet that measures .313” approximates or slightly exceeds the barrel’s measured groove diameter. It does not ride the bore.

[Guesser]

35remington.........Thanks for educating me. I've been casting since 1956 and just went with what worked, kinda went along to git along. I never bothered with terminology since in my mind I knew how my guns worked. Obviously I have been deceiving myself. Doing it that way, if something didn't work, I would change an aspect of the operation and try again until it did work.
Thank you for the brief, concise description and explanation. Bore riding??? Now I understand; thanks again.

[35remington]

Well, if things were working, the terminology is not as relevant, but sometimes it is helpful in making what you are doing understandable when explained.

[ChuckO]

In point of fact, the specs for the 32 long colt indicate a .318 diameter case, with a .305 bore and a .311 groove. This as compared to a .337 diameter case, a .303 bore and a .312 groove for the 32 New Police. A problem still exists in the path of would-be re-chamberers in that the .32 Long Colt chamber specification was .320, end to end, with no throat. See Page 294 of HANDLOADING by Wm. C Davis, NRA publications 1981. See also SAAMI, Pistols and revolvers, pp 152, 154. I therefore would have no qualms about rechambering a Police Positive to shoot the 32 S&W Long/ 32 New Police, but I would expect accuracy to be pretty poor unless I could find or make some hollow base .312 boolits.

I'm glad to see this information. I just came across a 32 Colt with the barrel marked "Police Positive B .32" with three patent dates to Oct. 5, 1926. The frame logo has the prancing Colt with lettering "Colt's New Police" and a serial number that dates to 1908. The barrel is 2", which does not seem right as 1908 guns had at minimum a 2.5" barrel. Also the chamber mouths in the cylinder are .315 to .317 diameter. That leads me to believe that the gun was originally chambered in 32 Colt but later bored out to 32 S&W and rebarelled. Does this sound correct? I haven't shot it yet, and am not certain that I want to as the minimum cylinder wall is .052" thick.

Can anybody give me any information that might suggest if I am correct?

Thanks,
Chuck

[rintinglen]

ChuckO, If you are sure on the serial number, (61500-66999) it sounds like someone either rebuilt that gun, or a left over New Police frame was built later by Colt as a new Police Positive. If it were in fact a New Police revolver as marked on the frame, it would have been made in 32 Long or short Colt. The cylinder throats should read .320, in fact, you should be able to load a 32 Colt Long Cartridge into either end of the cylinder--the charge hole was simply a .320 straight hole bored end to end. The gun probably was rebarreled and a new cylinder installed at a later date when the difficulty of obtaining ammunition became burdensome. The 1926 patent date suggests this. Also, I have only seen the B 32 marking on guns made in the 30's.

[Burnt Fingers]

Here's one. I was given this revolver today.

Colt serial number lookup suggests it's a Colt New Police .32 made in 1904. Serial number 228XX. Sadly it's spent the last 80 years in a gun case and the barrel is heavily rusted on the side where the roll print is.

I'm guessing there's no easy way to tell what it's chambered in. I did get some ammo with it. I'll have to try and read the head stamp.





I polished up a couple of rounds, got them in a strong light and it's RP 32 SH Colt. I'm guessing that's .32 Short Colt.