.44 Remington magnum question

[redneck44]

Have been reloading regular bullets for a while, but about to dive into lead cast. Ive bought 200 grain hard cast for my .44 magnum revolver, they are supposed to have bnh of between 16-18.
I have Unique powder but I'm not seeing much in the way of info in my manuals. my friend, who has reloaded for years says hes having good luck in his with12 gr. unique. oal 1.554, apx 1350 fps.
Does this sound right to you folks? Also what other data can you share with me to get me started? Ive heard of leading and don't want to ruin anything.. My bullets are .430 diameter.
Appreciate any advice you folks might have , also is there a good manual just for hard cast data? Thank you

[CJR]

reneck44,

My 44 Mag load is the 250 gr. Lyman 429421 CB in front of 25 gr. IMR4227 powder with Mag primers at 1350 fps.. This load was a Lyman accuracy load years ago. Based on my observations, i.e. shooting over snow, a small portion of the powder is not burned but appears to protect the base of the CB to prevent base melting. It is a super accurate load with NO BARREL LEADING whatsoever. You can shoot it all day long and just dry-brush the barrel afterwards. More recent Lyman manuals reduced the load to 24 gr. IMR4227, but I still use 25 gr. IMR4227. Lube; Alox 50/50 2138F/beeswax.

Best regards,

CJR

[upnorthwis]

Leading will not ruin a barrel. It just needs to be removed and you're good as new. .430 is a good place to start.

[Outpost75]

Leading is most often caused by bullets which are undersized and too hard to upset.

Revolver bullets should always be sized to cylinder throat diameter, not to barrel groove diameter.

The +0.001" over groove stuff you hear is simply a standardized guess.

If you want accurate loads which perform well in the field, check your cylinder throats with gage pins and size bullets to that diameter.

Hard cast is simply marketing BS because it makes pretty bullets which ship well without damage. You will get much better results with softer bullets of 10-13 BHN. Elmer Keith used 1:20 tin-lead, to approximate that hardness a 50-50 mixture of wheelweights and plumbers lead with 2% tin added works well.

While the 11 grain load of Unique you mentioned is not unsafe, it IS maximum. I consider 10 grains of Unique or 11 grains of Herco a full charge load.

[Minerat]

Lyman #2 lists a 200 gr boolit load for unique start 11.0 gr @ 1004 fps to max load 13.2 gr vel 1265 fps.

For IMR 4227 - 22.0 gr @ 1038 to max 24.5 @ 1201 for 200gr boolit

If you are going to shoot cast get the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook if you can.

[Shuz]

I suggest you start at 9.0g of Unique, and work up if you want higher velocity. .430 is a good place to start, but as other have said, measure your cylinder throats to see what size would work best. If you are really concerned about leading, use Trail Boss powder and I am quite sure you will see none! I use Trail Boss with boolits that are .431, Bhn 11, and yet my Smith 629 cylinder throats measure .4285!! For those that wonder why I don't size my boolits to .429; I did for a while, and with Trail Boss, saw no difference, and since I have a passel of Rugers that "need" .431, I stick to that diameter.

[mdi]

The key for shooting cast bullets in a revolver is proper bullet to gun fit. You should measure your cylinder throats and slug your barrel. This helps you two ways; first it will tell you if all your cylinder throats are the same size and that they are bigger than the groove diameter, And second measuring the cylinder throats (slugging, ball gauges, pin/plug gauges) will give you a good starting point for sizing your bullets.

INMO 18 BHN is unnecessarily too hard and diameter is more important. I started casting with surplus wheel weights (approx. 12 BHN) way before I got a hardness tester and produced some pretty hot cast bullet loads with very little leading (21-23 gr WC820), but my Ruger's cylinder throats measured .431" and I sized my bullets to .431".

I've used Unique for a lot in my cast bullet, 44 Magnum loads and started each round of testing with my manuals' starting loads; about 10.0 gr. for a 200 gr. cast bullet...

[Thumbcocker]

Be careful of undersized overly hard store bought boolits. The loads above using Unique should be plenty safe

[Larry Gibson]

redneck44

I've shot thousands of 200 and 240 gr hard cast commercial bullets sized .429 and .430 through numerous 44 Magnum revolvers and rifles. Accuracy has always been good if not excellent. The 200 gr you have sized .430 will probably shoot just fine.

I normally load the 240s over 8.5 gr Unique and the 200s over 10 gr Unique. Both are pleasant loads to shoot.

The only problem with "leading" has been with some of the bullets from some makers because of the hard wax so called "lube" some commercial casters use. If I got any leading a simple TL of LLA (as per the directions....a light coat and let dry thoroughly) solved the leading problem. If you get any leading I suggest just using the light coat of LLA.

[redneck44]

Thank you all. Larry, what is tl, and lla?

[bdicki]

Thank you all. Larry, what is tl, and lla?
Tumble lube and Lee liquid alox.

[Hickory]

My friend, who has reloaded for years says hes having good luck in his with12 gr. unique.

I personally don't like to use Unique for a high velocity load because of pressure spikes. I baby my 29/629's for longevity.

I shoot reduced loads 99% of the time, reserving near maximum loads for hunting and with a slower burning powder like 2400, 296, H110, AA#9 ect.

[44MAG#1]

"Elmer Keith used 1:20 tin-lead, to approximate that hardness a 50-50 mixture of wheelweights and plumbers lead with 2% tin added works well."

In the books I have and the articles I have read by Elmer Keith he recommends 1-16 tin and lead. In his chapter about working up the Keith 44 Magnum load in his Sixguns book he said he used 1-16 tin and lead.

[Dusty Bannister]

In order to reflect the hardness comparison keep in mind that 1-10 is about 11.5 BHN per Cast Bullets by EH Harrison. 1-14 is about 11.2 per Handloader #183. 1-20 is about 10 BHN per those same references. So the difference between the two referenced previously is 1 BHN.

[44MAG#1]

In order to reflect the hardness comparison keep in mind that 1-10 is about 11.5 BHN per Cast Bullets by EH Harrison. 1-14 is about 11.2 per Handloader #183. 1-20 is about 10 BHN per those same references. So the difference between the two referenced previously is 1 BHN.

I am more than aquainted with the hardness levels of tin and lead alloys. The reference was to what Keith used.
He used 1-16. Now, I am not going to be foolish enough to say he never ever at all in any way in any circumstance used 1-20. If he did in handguns of any velocity he rarely if ever mentioned it. I followed Keith from around '71 to just before he had the stroke in December and have read a great deal of his work.
Also I have two very old American Rifleman mags that he had article in.
I never questioned whether the BHN is suitable or not and will not do that. Most alloy BHN's can be made to work. Ive shot 1-16 at Keith velocity levels in the 44 Mag with no problems so I would say .5 or even 1 BHN either way would not make much difference at all if it even does.
I use mostly 15 BHN alloy now but have used alloys from 22 to 25 BHN quite abit.
Keith also recommended sizing bullets .429" too but now we know that one cant hit a bull in the behind unless he has his throats reamed polished size his bullets to throat diameter.
Amazing isnt it.

[redneck44]

I have to admit, I don't what the last 3 posts are about, as Im new new to loading hard cast. Thanks bdicki for the info. I did load a dozen today at 11 gr. uniuque 1.548 oal in the crimp ring. ill try them tomorrow, and let you know. thanks guys.

[Catpop]

Starting with throat diameter is a good place to begin. But thats only a start! Boolits should be .002 to .004 over groove diameter and brn should be 7-11. Of course it is a vicious circle from there. If no leading you are home free, but if not, the throats may have to be opened to match boolit to to groove.
My new SBH has a .429 groove and a .4315 throat and I use a flat base 265 gr Kieth .432 boolits of 7 brn with only a touch of leading at 1235 fps with Unique. When I get time, I plan on opening the throats to .433 and using .433 boolits. Then I’ll be there!

[Shuz]

Starting with throat diameter is a good place to begin. But thats only a start! Boolits should be .002 to .004 over groove diameter and brn should be 7-11. Of course it is a vicious circle from there. If no leading you are home free, but if not, the throats may have to be opened to match boolit to to groove.
My new SBH has a .429 groove and a .4315 throat and I use a flat base 265 gr Kieth .432 boolits of 7 brn with only a touch of leading at 1235 fps with Unique. When I get time, I plan on opening the throats to .433 and using .433 boolits. Then I’ll be there!

Question--Why open the throats to .433 when your throats are already .4315 and your bbl is .429?

[Tatume]

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

[44Blam]

You know with PB boolits, I like tailboss. So easy to shoot. And once you've shot a few rounds of it, you can tell when someone else is shooting it - it's pretty distinctive in sound and smell.
I load three loads for 44 mag. They are trailboss, aliant 2400 and win 296. BUT I'm trying to go through the rest of my 296 and just load TB and 2400. It's mainly because I can use both of those powders for other guns.

[Shuz]

44Blam--What boolit and how much Trail Boss do you use in your .44 mags?

[Catpop]

Shuz,
Because .429 boolits lead terribly!
.430 also lead terribly!
.431 also leads but not as bad as above two
.432 also leads but is almost manageable without choreboy.
A .432 swages to .4315 through cylinder.
I will open throats to .432 next
If still leads, I will open throats to .433 and shoot .433 boolits which should elimination the leading issues
This process is followed with all my revolvers and is a procedure developed by a west coast master boolit maker and then sent to his east cost testing labs for extensive range testing.
It works, what else can I say?

[44MAG#1]

Shuz,
Because .429 boolits lead terribly!
.430 also lead terribly!
.431 also leads but not as bad as above two
.432 also leads but is almost manageable without choreboy.
A .432 swages to .4315 through cylinder.
I will open throats to .432 next
If still leads, I will open throats to .433 and shoot .433 boolits which should elimination the leading issues
This process is followed with all my revolvers and is a procedure developed by a west coast master boolit maker and then sent to his east cost testing labs for extensive range testing.
It works, what else can I say?

Out of curiosity what is the name of that west coast master bullet maker? Is he still making bullets?

[Catpop]

44 mag,
I’d love to give you his name, but alas I am sworn to secrecy!
I have however informed him of your inquiry and he may contact you.

[44Blam]

44Blam--What boolit and how much Trail Boss do you use in your .44 mags?

My mould is Accurate 43-240A for PB and 43-240-AG for GC boolits. I powder coat (mostly) and size to .430. I load the PB ones with Trailboss and I use 6.5 grain and I load my GC boolits with 23.5 grn 296 or 21 grn 2400. The TB boolits shoot with zero recoil - the others well they do kick a bit.

[Three44s]

I use HS6 as the bridge between 8.5 gr. of Unique and 2400 and H110 or WW296, not more unique.

Three44s

[redneck44]

Loaded up a few of the 200 grain with 11 gr. unique. Had more kick then I expected from what I thought was a light load, shot wide to left at 10 yards, and upon examination of the brass, on case had a split towards the bottom of the case, which freaked me, as Ive only seen pics of this happening, never in my reloading. Was 11 gr. to high, and I'm wondering, can I over crimp? Using lee factory crimp die. Lymans cast bullet manual #4 should be here today. advice, please.

[Shuz]

Catpop--I suggest you stick with .432 diameter boolits with a soft NRA type lube and your leading problems could go away. However,it seems to me with a .429" bbl, that what you really need is a cylinder that measures .4295 or .430! You are asking a .429" bbl to swage down a .431 or .432 diameter boolit without any leading?

[Catpop]

Shuz,
Thanks for sharing your hands on experience with me!
I’ll keep it in mind as I continue my testing!
Catpop