Iver Johnson NFA ?

[Drm50]

Prior to 1934 Gun Control Act there were shotgun pistols on the market. They were
made by H&R, Stevens and several other lesser known companies. I have been trying
to find a picture and the model name for the ones IJ made. I have found everything
but,and have some parts that I think are IJ from one of these guns. I don't have the
action and am guessing it is IJ by comparing checkering to guns of that period. Anyone
fimilar with these guns?

[KCSO]

Game Getter By Marbles I believe, is what you are looking for a PD I worked for had one for a pest gun, shot it a lot mostly for fun. Check out Arms of the World 1911.

[Drm50]

Game Getter is Marbles, I'm looking for single shot pistols made by Iver Johnson. They were
chambered for shotgun shells and made illegal under 1934 act.

[NoZombies]

I've seen one in person, but it was years ago, and I don't recall what IJ called the gun. The one I handled was pretty similar to the H&R handi-gun.

[dubber123]

I believe I have an action and somewhere a stock and forend for one. I can look around and send pics if it will help.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Prior to 1934 Gun Control Act there were shotgun pistols on the market. They were
made by H&R, Stevens and several other lesser known companies. I have been trying
to find a picture and the model name for the ones IJ made. I have found everything
but,and have some parts that I think are IJ from one of these guns. I don't have the
action and am guessing it is IJ by comparing checkering to guns of that period. Anyone
fimilar with these guns?I believe Ithaca marketed the "Auto and Burglary" which was essentially a pistol gripped double barrel pistol in .410 or 20ga. H&R had the Handy Gun, Marbles the Game Getter. I'm not aware of a pre-1934 factory short barrel from Stevens, but I've seen variants done after the fact or after 1934.

[NoZombies]

Stevens made some of their pistols in .44 XL shot with smooth bores. I've handled a few of them over the years.

Sadly many of these were destroyed. Today they would only be a $5 tax stamp.

[Thin Man]

This entire discussion brigs me back to a line of thoughts I had been trying to resolve for a while. GCA '34 declared the firearms described in this thread as NFA regulated properties. Yet today we have revolver, derringers and single shot pistols that are manufactured to fire shotgun shells. This seems contradictory to the older laws and I can't make sense of it. This is just one more example of my not knowing enough about all the various laws and their applications. There is always more to learn, and I"m listening.

[FergusonTO35]

For every law made, there are going to be work arounds. AR-15 and AK-47 pistols, "arm braces", Remington and Mossberg smoothbore pistols over 26", and so on.

[NoZombies]

This entire discussion brigs me back to a line of thoughts I had been trying to resolve for a while. GCA '34 declared the firearms described in this thread as NFA regulated properties. Yet today we have revolver, derringers and single shot pistols that are manufactured to fire shotgun shells. This seems contradictory to the older laws and I can't make sense of it. This is just one more example of my not knowing enough about all the various laws and their applications. There is always more to learn, and I"m listening.

The difference is in the way the law is written, vs intent.

The guns this thread are about are smoothbore pistols, the modern versions you mentioned are pistols with rifled barrel, but have chambers extended to accept shotshells.

[frkelly74]

The Devil is always in the details.

[shooterg]

The devil is the ATF !

[Geezer in NH]

Not illegal in many states as long as registered with the tax paid they are considered AOW for any other weapon tax for transfer $5.00.

Ithaca auto-burglars were mostly made on their Flues actions. they bring good money from collectors.

[RPRNY]

Pedersoli now catalogues a look alike to the Ithaca Auto & Burglar in 45 LC/.410

[NoZombies]

There's a crescent model on GB right now.

[FergusonTO35]

If H&R still existed, I wonder if they would create a new .410 Handy Gun with 26" overall length? I bet they would sell well.

[wv109323]

I thought it was the GCA of 1968 that controlled these type of firearms .
A smooth bore shotgun must have a barrel length of 18".
A rifle must have a barrel of 16".
A rifle is intended to be shouldered and held by the forearm..
A pistol can not have a "functional" forearm.
Pistols that fire shot shells have rifled barrels and chambered for Centerfire cartridges that are close to the .410 shotshell. As long as the barrel is rifled it is a pistol.
The firearms you are talking about are smoothbores.
Exceptions to the above were mostly grandfathered in and controlled by the atf.

[oldhenry]

My parents owned a small neighborhood grocery store during the big depression of 1929. Money was tight for everyone & they had been selling on credit but people were unable to pay. Somehow they took in a J. Stevens .410 pistol in settlement of a high grocery bill. As best I can remember the bbl. was 8-10".
& the bbl. tilting mechanism was activated by a brass looking button on the right side (about 1/4" dia.). If I'm not mistaken the chamber area of the bbl. was octagon shaped.

Apparently the firing pin was not original, because it would rupture the primer & cause the action to open occasionally. I inherited the gun & a friend attempted to correct the firing pin problem & to make a long story short he did permanent damage to the hammer pivot pin & silver soldered it in place.

I traded it for a shotgun in '70. I wish I had it now.......I do most of my own gunsmithing now.

J. Stevens Arms Co. Chicopee Falls, Mass. was stamped on the top flat of the bbl..

Henry

[mcdaniel.mac]

I thought it was the GCA of 1968 that controlled these type of firearms .
A smooth bore shotgun must have a barrel length of 18".
A rifle must have a barrel of 16".
A rifle is intended to be shouldered and held by the forearm..
A pistol can not have a "functional" forearm.
Pistols that fire shot shells have rifled barrels and chambered for Centerfire cartridges that are close to the .410 shotshell. As long as the barrel is rifled it is a pistol.
The firearms you are talking about are smoothbores.
Exceptions to the above were mostly grandfathered in and controlled by the atf.Not quite. The primary law is the NFA of 1934. The GCA established the requirement to serialize non-NFA firearms, the establishment of FFLs, and the 4473.

For NFA items you want to look at the NFA handbook section 2: (PDF WARNING) https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

Roughly, if it has a smooth barrel it must be over 26" OAL, or it is an NFA weapon. (AoW, SBS, SBR)

If it has a buttstock, it must be over 26" AND have a rifled barrel longer than 16" or longer than 18" if smoothbore, or else it is an NFA weapon. (Short barreled rifle or short barrledd shotgun)

If it has a vertical foregrip (angled foregrip and rifle forend don't count) then it must be over 26" overall, or it is an NFA weapon. (AoW)

If it was manufactured with a stock and appropriate length barrel and then the barrel and stock are removed, if it considered an NFA weapon (weapon made from a rifle, SBR and SBS)

If it has a bore diameter (lands, I believe) greater than .50", it is an NFA weapon unless ATF grants a specific exemption, such as for shotguns. (Destructive Device)

If it explodes, uses a self-contained motor like a rocket engine, or carries propellant above a certain amount, it is an NFA weapon (each projectile!) (Destructive Device)

If it fires more than one shot per barrel per trigger pull, it is an NFA weapon. Volley guns are specifically exempted. Burst, full-auto, both are considered "machineguns" legally, regardless of caliber or (to reminisce about one liar I knew) magazine capacity. Machinegun also surpasses all others, so a registered M16 can have whatever barrel you want on it regardless of length.

If it can be fired while disguised as a non-firearm (cane guns, wallet guns, pen guns) it is an NFA firearm. If it cannot be fired without being reassembled into a gun-like-configuration then it is exempted. (AoW again)

If it quiets the report of the firearm, or is a part of an item designed to do so, it is an NFA firearm. (Silencer)

If it not in one of these categories, it's not an NFA firearm.