Testing accuracy loads at 50 yrs. vs 100 yds?

[Schreck5]

The closest 100 yd range is an hour and a half away and a 50 yd indoor range is 10 min. away. Can I get by with using the local 50 yd range for load development by simply doubling my 50 yd groups. For example, if my 50 yd groups are 1", then can I be resonably sure that my 100 yd would be 2"? Just trying to save some time and gas money, and also be able to shoot more often.

[fredj338]

Not really. I assume rifle? I have seen some good 50y groups that poop out at 100 & beyond. If you are worried about 100y accuracy, or any distance for that matter, test at that distance IMO.

[MUSTANG]

Use the 50 Yard range to get Chronograh Readings, and to "Get on target"; initial sight adjustments. Then go to a 100/200/300.../1000 Yard range for getting your actual load data.

[KVO]

Unfortunately the dispersion is very often not linear. You can do some initial testing at 50 yards to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Then select your top picks from the short line and retest at 100yd+. If a rifle load doesn't shoot excellent (by whatever standard you choose) at 50, it won't shoot for beans further out. You can still save some time and gas money that way.

[fecmech]

As others have said there is a difference other than doubling between 50 and 100. That said what the 50 yd group looks like means a lot. If you have ten shots in a nice round tight group at 50 yds it will probably hold up at 100. If you have a tight cluster of 7 or 8 shots and one or two outside that cluster that's telling you they're leaving the group and your group at 100 and beyond will suffer greatly. Any stringing at 50 will be really bad at 100 and beyond. What you want to see at 50yds is round and tight. Good luck.

[vzerone]

I dunno, I have to disagree with 50 yards tests unless they are horribly bad. There was a gun article written on a Weatherby 300 W. Magnum, which has a very high power scope, bipod, long heavy barrel profile, and shot with quality ammo. The gun writer was almost going to bite the bullet and really condemn that rifle because the best it would do was 3 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. He decided before he done that to test it at 300 yards at which it drilled holes!!!! A classic example of a bullet going to sleep in this case.

[Echo]

The 50 vs 100 debate brings to mind the factory 38 Special HBWC's from Rem/WW/Peters &cetera. Two and a half inch groups @ 50 through my Clark 38 - but not on paper @ 100...

[Schreck5]

Not really. I assume rifle? I have seen some good 50y groups that poop out at 100 & beyond. If you are worried about 100y accuracy, or any distance for that matter, test at that distance IMO.

Yes, a rifle. It's a Mosin Nagant.

[William Yanda]

I can guarantee that your 100 yard groups will not improve over those shot at 50 yards. They may or may not be double.

[Hick]

I do most of my initial accuracy tests at 50 yards when I am doing load ladders. Why? because I am shooting open sights and want to cut down on other factors, such as fluctuations in the winds and my eyesight. Once I think I've got it, however, I do final testing at the ranges I plan to use.

[Hootmix]

What VZERON just stated,,a friend just bought a 98 mauser ( 8mm) could not get a group at 100-200 yds. said he was go'n make a tomato stake with it ,,shot 1 & 1/2 box of ammo (??) decided to shoot the rest at 400yd. hangers ,,,5 rds ,, 5 solid hits ??? Go figure ,,, . ( It is scoped ) .

cvoffee's ready ,,, Hootmix.

[vzerone]

What VZERON just stated,,a friend just bought a 98 mauser ( 8mm) could not get a group at 100-200 yds. said he was go'n make a tomato stake with it ,,shot 1 & 1/2 box of ammo (??) decided to shoot the rest at 400yd. hangers ,,,5 rds ,, 5 solid hits ??? Go figure ,,, . ( It is scoped ) .

cvoffee's ready ,,, Hootmix.


Gee Hootmix, talk about a bullet going to sleep that's more like a bullet going into a coma!!!!

[brewer12345]

Schreck, what are you planning on using this load for? If it will shoot little groups at 50 yards, chances are it will shoot acceptable 100 yards if we are talking about, say, a deer load. That is the way it works with my 35 Rem. If your ultimate goal is to be able to bust an elk at 300 yards, I would not want to test at less than 100 yards.

[crackers]

You can weed out a lot of trash load ideas at 50 yards. There's little more annoying than having to wait for the fat man to waddle a 600 yard round trip when he's obviously over his head.

[458mag]

:bigsmyl2:

[Char-Gar]

Here is my $0.02 worth. Twenty years ago, this board had it's genesis as the cast bullet forum, on the now defunct Shooters.com. New ground was broken there and many myths shown for what they were. After some discussion we settled on 50 yards for out testing, so when we talked to each other we had a common denominator.

Most loads that give nice round groups will hold up at 100 yards and be about double in size. That said, as the range stretches out we have more wind to content with and some bullets shot from some barrels will give better groups and some will be worse.

Fifty yards is a good place to start and separate the good loads from the bad loads. When that is done, we can them back off to 100 and 200 yards to see how the good ones hold up. Most often they will.

[Schreck5]

brewer,
I want to deer hunt with it. Hoping to find an acceptable 100 yd recipe. Larry Gibson is sort of coaching me along.

[Larry Gibson]

brewer,
I want to deer hunt with it. Hoping to find an acceptable 100 yd recipe. Larry Gibson is sort of coaching me along.

As previously mentioned I suggest, based on your range availability, to test at 50 yards to get an idea of potential accuracy and velocity of, perhaps, several loads. Up to a certain point the group at 100 yards will open in a linear fashion double the 50 yard group size as mentioned in other posts. Above that certain point the 100 yard groups can be much larger than double the size of the 50 yard groups. The groups can also be non existent at 100 yards vs 50 yards as also previously mentioned. After you have selected potential loads tested at 50 yards then test those at 100 yards to be sure of their real accuracy capability at that longer range.

Since you plan on hunting out to 100 yards final testing of selected loads at that range (100 yards) will allow for known performance......not a hopeful guess. For hunting out to 100 yards I suggest pushing the cast bullet to as high a velocity while maintaining adequate/reasonable hunting accuracy that fits your needs. Loading just for best accuracy may not be the preferred goal for a hunting load. Finding a compromise of power (velocity) and accuracy (group size) may best suit your needs out to 100 yards.

[brewer12345]

brewer,
I want to deer hunt with it. Hoping to find an acceptable 100 yd recipe. Larry Gibson is sort of coaching me along.

In that case, if it were me I would do the bulk of my testing at the convenient 50 yard range and then test the final candidates at 100 yards to verify accuracy. Sounds like I am saying essentially the same thing as Larry.

[megasupermagnum]

You can weed out the real bad loads at 50 yards, but I have a hard time believing you will see much difference between them. I find 50 yards to be half decent for hunting handguns, but even slug guns, nothing shows up until you get to 100 yards. I would not waste much time with a rifle at 50 yards for load development. For practice, no problem. I cant tell you the number of times I've had one hole groups at 50 yards that are barely on paper at 100 yards, it's quite often.

[Oily]

find your best 3 loads at 50 and work them until you find the "one" that stays consistent. Then go to the 100 yd and see what you and your rifle can do. And by the way have fun.

[Oily]

I know this thread is about distance to work up loads but it might be helpful .to know what boolit you are planning to shoot. My 91/30 slugs at .312 so I shoot .314 boolits in it. For deer you want as big as you can use meplate or flat nose as you can get.Let us know what you intend to shoot and we can give you better advice on what to try at 50. By the way the sights on MN are horrible unless you have " young " eyes. My Mosin likes heavy boolits at about 1300 fps to maybe 1500 fps . 180 to 220 gr all shoot acceptable. Unique and 5477 do well in mine. SR 4759 was the powder of choice in calibers of this size but is out of production. Reloader 7 is another choice. And don't forget Red Dot

[popper]

I do my alloy & general testing @ 50. First, I am less a factor at short range. 2nd, if hunting it will generally be 25-100 yds. I usually shoot a couple 'equivalent' jacketed to validate My shooting the same day/range/conditions. With out a range finder (doesn't do much good for moving pigs) I also carry a good jacketed load in the field (and practice) for the benefit of higher BC. My rifles (AR) have good cast loads for the distance but
jacketed compensate for error in range drop better than cast.

[robg]

Start at 25 then 50 then 100 to be sure .

[chboats]

I have a 458x2 on a Mauser action that will shoot almost anything into 1"groups at 50yds. Some will even shoot 10 rounds into a 5/8"hole at 50. When I move the target to 100yds it is hard to keep it inside 3". sometimes more. It is not stringing. The groups just get bigger. I have tried light loads and heavy and it's the same thing. Other rifles don't act that way. Who knows what the problem is?

That being said I would still keep shooting the 50yds when it is that close to home.

Carl

[RedDust]

As the others have said, shooting at 50 will help you weed out unacceptable loads (inaccurate or unacceptable velocities for your hunting) before you make your long drive to test at 100.

I have done a fair bit of cast-bullet testing in my 30-30 lever-gun for both target-competition and hunting loads.
As a general guideline I find that my final-check of short-listed acceptable loads at 50 is best done with 10 shot groups (as long as they're not leading). In my experience a 10 shot 50yd group needs to be less than 1.5inches, with at least 8 of the shots making a ragged hole of less than an inch, for it to be a good load at 100.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

As a very great generalisation, subject to exceptions, deficiencies in accuracy caused by the rifle make 50 yard groups half the size of 100 yard ones, a tenth the size of 500 yard ones, and so on. They often spread the group in a particular direction, or more so as the rifle heats up.

Deficiencies caused by the bullet may, if slight, be similarly straight-line, or may make the cone of fire trumpet-shaped (100 yard group more than double the 50 yard one). Once in a while a bullet wobble or corkscrew will settle down, and 500 yard be less than ten times 50 yard, although this is less likely to show up in 100.

Deficiencies caused by powder charge or inconsistency of ignition are the kind that really need long range to show them up.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

If you can hit a milk jug off hand at 100 yds. every time you are a good shot. If your rifle will hold an inch at 50 you will hit that 100 yd. milk jug every time if you do your part. It is satisfying to shoot little groups from the bench but that has little in common with the deer woods. Be realistic with your hunting accuracy goals.

[Hickory]

Rifles can sometimes be funny.
Not the kind of funny that makes you laugh, but the kind of funny that makes you wonder.

A guy I know bought a Remington 788 in 222 and Weaver scope and ask me to put it on and sight it in for him.

At 100 yards it was printing just over a half inch. This was real good, so, I decided to try it at 200 yards. To my surprise it was printing right at 1/2", just a wee bit smaller than at 100 yards.

He wasn't very happy that I shot up 2 boxes of his ammo, but, he got over it when he saw the targets.

[toallmy]

Just for your own knowledge after working out the load you should check your Boolit path at different ranges , on the money at a 100 could be over the back at 50 or at the ankles at 125 + out of a tree stand can change things . But testing is the fun part .