Lube sizers what’s out there?

[TaylorS]

I have everything pinned as far as my casting equipment goes except the lube sizer. After reading through most( ok a little over half so far) of the ingots to bullets e book. seems the fastest and cleanest way to process boolits for sizing and lubing is a star lubesizer. I looked them up and there a bit on the high side for me so I’m wondering does anyone else make one along the same lines as the star but with a softer price tag? I’d like to avoid the Lee setup as it looks messy.


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[Beagle333]

No. The Star is the Cadillac. But you can lube just fine with a RCBS LAM or a Lyman 45/450/4500 as long as your boolits aren't bevel based. Those need more attention in a base-first sizer. If you aren't going to use a LOT of boolits, then you won't need a Star anyway, they are just nice to have.

[DonMountain]

I have used an RCBS LAM-II for 25 years or more, and find it convenient to swap dies and set it up for other bullet sizes if you aren't going to do more than a 1000 or two at a time. If more then that I would prefer the Star. The Lyman 4500 is also almost identical to the RCBS unit I have and works the same way. So, for doing 500 to 1000 bullets of each size and then swapping dies, I would recommend either the RCBS or Lyman sizers. If you are really heavy into one or two calibers like shooting pistol bullets in competition, the I would buy a Star.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The Star is worth the price and holds it's value pretty well. If you can afford it, it is the one to buy.
with that said,
the old Lyman 45 does quite well.
what is your goal for casting/sizing? a few hundred a month? or a few thousand a month?
The Star is nice when you are sizing thousands of boolits.
The Lyman does fine if you are sizing hundreds of boolits.

[TaylorS]

Right now goals are to fill the 2500 ish 9mm brass and proceed to cast and load everything I have for the dozen+ calibers I reload for. Then shoot everything and start over!


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[Elkins45]

Changing calibers or even bullet styles in the same diameter is more of an effort with a Star. If you see yourself frequently switching sizing dies then the Star may not be for you. Where the Star excels is setting it up and then doing huge runs of the same bullet.

[sigep1764]

In a perfect world, Lyman 4500 for calibers you shoot less, Star for the one or two or three calibers you shoot a ton of. But they have it right above me, Lyman/RCBS for a few hundred of each, Star for a ton of like boolits.

[Bazoo]

Economy dictates finding a used Lyman 450 like I have. I bought it here for in the 75.00 range. Full assortment of sizing dies are available and cheap. It may not be a cadillac, but its a solid work truck.

[Walter Laich]

I have a Lyman 450 that I've sized and lubes 10,000s of bullets on.

Then I discovered powder coating (PC)! cost was $30 for a new cheapest-one-they-had toaster oven at wally world, $13 for lb of Smoke's powder (he has good stuff and is a vender here; he also has sample packs of 4 colors) and a Lee push through sizer--$21. You would also need a #5 recycle container but a cool whip container does nicely.

there is a bit of learning curve but then most things have one.

Now I've been doing this for several years but I can cast 18# of lead, PC and size them in 2 hours. These are 200 grain .45 Colt bullets

either method works but I like the PC cause it doesn't melt off the bullets in our hot Texas Summers

[KenT7021]

I use the Lyman lube sizers.I bought a 450 new during the late 50's and still use it.Over the years I bought a Lyman 45,two more 450's and a 4500 used.I really don't need that many but use different lubes in each one.If I was buying new I would get the Lyman 4500 with the lube heater.There isn't that much price difference.Used can be found on EBay as long as you pay attention to shipping charges and don't get into a bidding duel.Lyman 45's are hard to get parts for but the pressure screw ans piston are replaceable with parts from the 4500.

[wquiles]

I was in the boat as the OP, and after looking (and missing) on a few good used deals, I got the RCBS on special on Midway. I hope to use it this coming weekend for the first time :)

Will

[Skeeno]

When I first started out, I was trying to be as cheap as I could. Thought I could get by with pan lubing and the Lee push through sizers. I very quickly realized that wasn't going to work for me, so I bought a Lyman 4500. It has provided many years of reliable service for me. However, times change and as I get older and my kids get older my time is more valuable to me. I just put in an order for a Star with Magma and sizing dies from Lathesmith. I haven't received either yet, but I sure feel like a kid waiting for Santa Claus to come. You don't have to get the cadillac now, but you might just end up with one down the road.

[TaylorS]

I hear ya skeeno my time at the bench is pretty slim with the little one and the wife and all the other obligations life brings that’s why I was hoping to find something like the star but on the cheap


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[edp2k]

[QUOTE=Elkins45;4360082]Changing calibers or even bullet styles in the same diameter is more of an effort with a Star. If you see yourself frequently switching sizing dies then the Star may not be for you. /QUOTE]

Anyone who has ever actually used a star sizer would completely disagree with the above statements.

It take about 60 seconds to swap out the die+punch in a star.

1. unscrew the punch.
if you have the punch lock nut that has a set screw (or double nutted) then you don't even have to look for a wrench,
since the the punches can be screwed in just finger tight.

2. screw the punch part of the die puller into the ram. (a die puller is about $20 from lathesmith and makes things so easy).
3. screw the puller rod from the puller through the sizing die into the punch part.
4. raise ram to remove sizing die.
5. unscrew the punch part of the die puller.
6. screw in new sizing punch.
7. push in the new sizing die using a 1" thick piece of wood or plastic between the ram and top of the new sizing die.

DONE!

it took longer to type that in than to actually do it :)

In addition, sizing with a star is 2 or 3 time the speed of sizing with a lyman/rcbs/saeco.

Watch the swapping+selling forum for people selling used star sizers.
The typically sell quick, but they are out there.

[JMax]

I had a couple Stars setup in 38spl and 45ACP when I was shooting buckets full in ammo. Now I buy pistol bullets as the volume is down to 5000 a year. I shoot a several thousand cast rifle bullets a year but I use a separate sizer for each bullet diameter. I use a Pat Marlins DOCKRocker for my 4 lube/sizers and case trimmer saving bench space. There are 2 LAMII, a LAM and an old Lyman45 all mounted with a Lyman heater on the base plate. I prefer my LAMs and those are my volume rifle bullets. Now setup is to loosen a few screws, pull out one sizer and inset the new one, plug in heater wait a while and start lubing after 15 minutes or so.

[gwpercle]

In 1972 I couldn't afford the Star Caddy so I bought the Lyman 450 Chevy. I'm still using the 450 and have yet to replace a single part. I would buy a Lyman 4500 based on the the years of service I have gotten and my bank account .
I still don't drive Cadillac Cars....my 1968 Chevelle gets me there just fine.
Gary

[mold maker]

Like GW, I've been so satisfied with my original Lyman 450 that it's still in use. I did replace parts to make it a 4500 due to a friends hamhandedness.

[solman]

I too bought the RCBS from Midway. Still on sale and works fine. I made a heater out of a piece of aluminum plate and a cheap wally world iron. Later I got fancy bought a flea bay pid and heater for about $20 total. Drilled the plate and inserted the temp probe and heater and works great. I am at work and have no access or I would post a photo.

[lightman]

I'm another that started with a Lyman and finally bought a Star. I still own and use the Lyman but the Star gets the call for the stuff that I size and lube in volume. Once you change the dies and top punches a few times there is not much difference in the amount of time that it takes. If you go the Star/Magma route, buy the die removal tool. Lathesmith makes great dies for the Star and also offers a die removal tool.

[marlin39a]

I've been using the Lyman 450 for over 40 yrs. I have 3 of them. I wish I had bought the Star yrs ago for speed. But these days, my Lyman's suit me fine.

[Mal Paso]

Right now goals are to fill the 2500 ish 9mm brass and proceed to cast and load everything I have for the dozen+ calibers I reload for. Then shoot everything and start over!


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A dozen calibers is at least $400 worth of Lyman/RCBS dies. You get locked in before you know it. If I were starting out now I would get a Star or powder coat.

[Dennis Eugene]

I started on an RCBS sizer watched a you tube video on the star, bought a used star and gave away my RCBS. This from a guy who bleeds RCBS green when cut. Weather doing 100 or 10,000 I will take the star always. Pay once cry once and spend more time shooting. Star is four times faster than ANY other machine out there, and for me sizeing is my least favorite part of the process. Now I actually enjoy it. D.C.

[porthos]

dosen't anyone have any comments about the redding / saeco sizer

[lightman]

I can't really make a meaningful comment because I have no personal experience. I'm sure it works as needed. I would probably choose something different just because of how easy it is to find dies and top punches for all of the others.

[Bent Ramrod]

I use a Cramer (predecessor to Redding/SAECO) for my BPCR boolits, using custom bored and drilled dies made from The Perfessor’s excellent die blanks. There is no sizing per se, just guiding in and lubing. The thing is quite stout, though, and should do any actual sizing chore it is called upon to do.

The “sideways” operation takes a little getting used to if you are accustomed to the front levers on all other lubrisizers, and the dies are specialized and expensive. I wouldn’t throw a Lyman or RCBS machine away to get one of these, but they are nicely made and do the job.

I am also in the camp that says Stars are primarily for rapid quantity production of the same style boolit. The fact that Star dies are hardened and ground, and priced accordingly, and the machine itself can be accessorized for automatic operation, would indicate that Star Machine Works also figures that the lubrisizer would be running gang-mould production quantities in shifts, with infrequent changeovers, rather than a hundred here and a hundred there for different calibers over a few hours or so.

It isn’t so much that changing out the dies is difficult (although no other machine needs a special die extractor), it’s the finicky adjustment of the punch and die for size, number and location of grease grooves on the boolits you’re changing to. You can run a lot of boolits very fast, all with a lube groove empty and a nice mess of lube on the nose, before you get the punch set right, and, if necessary, the troublesome holes in the dies plugged. Then, the boolits run fas as lightning until you’re done with that batch of 100, and for the next design, you get to do the adjustment routine all over again. Some obviously think this is no big deal, but the single screw adjustment for the “I” punch on the Lyman/RCBS/Redding/Etc can be matched to the new casting with one boolit in a minute or so. The sizing operation afterwards is slower than the Star, but isn't any slower than a seating operation on a reloading press.

I wish The Perfessor would finish his Sabbatical and start producing those blanks again. They are top-notch stuff!

[robert12345]

I know you are looking for a sizing machine, so my opinion might not be relevant,
but...,

were I shooting only rifle, I would use a slip on gas check, and hand lube the bullets,
and not size them at all.
.
Were I shooting for a pistol where I needed lots of bullet fast, my choice would be no gas check bullet mould, with a bevel base, and what ever lubrasizer you can get used, and cheep.

Lyman is fine, but they will size off center, so avoid tightening down the top punch screw, and let the top punch float, so to find it's own center.
.
Remember the age old wisdom of shooting masters, they learned long ago, that a bullet un- sized is always the best.
.
As for my old Lyman machine, it rather sits there, gathering rust, and abandoned.

[oldhenry]

I started in 1960 with a used Lyman 450 & used it for years. It did the job, but was slow. It would not process bevel base boolits (messy).

I bought a new Star in the late 70's (or early 80's?). I have never used the Lyman since. I now use the Star for 5 calibers & changing dies is quick (same speed as the Lyman).

I primarily cast pistol boolits. If I added a rifle to the mix, I might use the Lyman for that only (easier to seat GC).

Henry

[toallmy]

I have no experience with any thing but the lee push through sizing die , and the magma star lube sizer both are fast , I went from pan lube boolits straight to a star and love it . Tumble lubing wad cutters as cast don't take long ether:wink: .

[Mr_Sheesh]

What is peoples' rating on the Lee push-through luber sizer rig? Used to run a Lyman 45 but it was stolen, Star looks pricey but might be a good choice (sorta rough money wise & one die per mold, eek, but fast. Hmmm.) If I go PC might just what, pick an alloy that gives the desired as-cast dimension & not lube/size? Thinking to start with 9mm / 357 / 429 / 452 dies probably, may have to re-slug everything as my data books went missing too.

[Springfield]

Lee doesn't make a luber/sizer, just a sizer, so you will have to pan lube or alox or something. And with the Star it isn't one die per mold, it's one per caliber. You may have to switch the lube holes when using bullets with different amounts of lube grooves, but it is easy enough.

[TaylorS]

I ended up getting a Lyman 4500 but after lubesizing my first batch I have a couple questions. I have noticed when I run the boolit through there tends to be some lube build up on the base. I can squish most of it out from the base by hovering the handle some extra pressure but I have noticed that it deforms the nose when I do. Is it normal for the face of the die punch to have lube build up on it or are my molds not cutting sprues properly?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/fd8654e9ed61deb4aaead5155c6dcce4.jpg I don’t know what it hurts other than wasting lube and taking up case space, but I had figured this would be the cleanest method for lubing boolits.


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[EDG]

Excess lube pressure can force lube under the bullet. A heater or light bulb can warm the lube and reduce the pressure needed to make the lube flow. However the reduced viscosity of the lube will permit it to flow under the bullet more easily.

Some people drill a vent hole through the center of the die pin to permit excess lube to flow out the bottom of the pin.

Your own technique can be improved to minimize lube on bullet bases. Other than that just wipe it off.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Lyman 450 works good for me have 2 of them setup on my bench

[LUCKYDAWG13]

if your using the Lyman black molly lube I would switch to http://www.lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=17 but you will need to add a heater

[lightman]

Like the others posted, try a little less pressure or maybe some heat. When I load cast bullets I keep a towel or rag on my knee and wipe the base off on each bullet. Yeah, its a pain. Another step in the process. But, some dies, some bullets, some lube, are worse than others!

[TaylorS]

I’ll let off the pressure some I got one with the heater so I doubt heat is the issue I am using the Lyman moly lube right now and have a stick of orange stuff when it comes to it I have a couple recipients for home made gunk when all that runs out[emoji3] but the sprues won’t be trouble later right?


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[Lloyd Smale]

been using a star so long now that the lymans and rcbs sizers are just old bad dreams. Yes they will all size equally well but a star is probably 4 times faster.

[MT Chambers]

I have 7 lube sizers ,set up, 2 RCBS, 2 Lyman, 3 Stars, I use the Stars for everything except cals. that I don't have Star dies for. The Star sets up faster, is more accurate with it's nose first sizing and is 5 X faster or more.

[RED BEAR]

the only thing I've ever used is the lee dies with pan lubing and rcbs. the lee is very messy? the rcbs was like a gift from heaven. i would like to have a star but finany that is not possible. also i will purchase old guns in different calibers and star dies are considerably more expensive than the rcbs. the number of dies i needed was a huge consideration. saved enough on dies to pay for the luber sizer.

[lightman]

I know what you mean! I recently switched over to a Star and gearing up for all new dies is a pretty substantial investment. If a new caster can afford the Star at the beginning it is a great way to go. Its a big decision to switch along the way.

[DukeInFlorida]

One thing to consider with the star option is that it does not do pointy rifle bullets at all. I have a star for pistol, but retain my Lyman 450 for the pointy rifle bullets. One of our vendor sponsors, Lathesmith, is the cheapest option for sizing dies for either machine. If you are installing gas checks on anything, let him know that and he will put a special lead in on the sizing die to facilitate the gas checks. Works much better than the factory standard dies.

Also, whether you are lubing plain base, bevel base, or gas checked pistol bullets, be sure to set your lubricizer right. The depth is what is important. Close off the row of the sizing die that you don't need with some number 7 shot, and you won't get lube on the base of the bullets.

[HeavyMetal]

I'll see if I can add my 2 cents and not be confusing.

The Star is one of a kind manufacturer and has yet to duplicated although I don't know why !

you can have a Star on the used market if your calm wait it out, pending the price you want to pay of course!

second to the Star is the Saeco all others are not, in my opinion, worth messing with no matter how few you cast.

I have had all the common one and, in over more than 40 years of casting and reloading, two Stars and a Saeco are the only ones that still remain.

must be a reason!

just food for thought.

HM

[Mike W1]

Earlier today a guy had a LAM 2 for sale for $125 NIB. Wouldn't think that'll take long to sell though.

[GONRA]

GONRA hasa Lyman 450, lottsa tooling..... Sizing die bottom diameter is 0.703 inch.

Younger son hasa RCBS with a number of sizing die/top punches. Sizing die bottom diameter is 0.705 inch.

He just purchased a new Lyman 4500 with a heater.
Was pissed that his RCBS dies wouldn't fit his new Lyman when literature sez they're interchangable.
So I spent the day reducng his die stash from 0.705 -> 0.703 inch diameter and checking for fit....

Hope this isn't some sorta bad News. Any comments from you Seasoned Sizing Experts?
Is need to do this common? Unusual? ????