New to MLing, and photos of my new toy

[Bob in St. Louis]

Hey all, thought I'd show off my new (to me) Thompson .54 Renegade.
I bought it for $150, along with (yet to be delivered) "goodies" to get me started.
I've done a little research and have already learned a bunch. So thanks to all who have ever posted knowledge in old threads about the rifle.

Regardless, here's the pretty pics;


https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31487797_310146736184450_1987692198660931584_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=feee9ab35afcb9024a36817cb97c0796&oe=5B9D3CEA

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31682495_310146726184451_2138070531386114048_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=206cb66dcb578bd7fd33c40eb368d42e&oe=5B5E6466

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31517505_310146729517784_3414435456278855680_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=d31b08957d422c82f501243939038d8e&oe=5B95BAD4

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31712198_310146722851118_5142268466945851392_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=aaa475fdbe52d065efa14860c9a3c06a&oe=5B5BFD12

[Beerd]

With all that brass furniture it looks like you have a .54 cal TC Hawken.
It's a nice one, too!
..

[Tatume]

Very nice! I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

[Bob in St. Louis]

With all that brass furniture it looks like you have a .54 cal TC Hawken.
It's a nice one, too!
..

Oh, really? I thought it was a Renegade. Shows how smart I am. haha
Thanks for the heads-up, I'll do some more research. :)

[Beerd]

The Renegades I've seen all had a blued steel trigger guard and a shotgun style butt plate. No cap box on the stock, I don't think there was a nose cap.
Hawken or Renegade, if you are a hunter that will be one skookum meat maker with a patched roundball.
..

[Bob in St. Louis]

Indeed! This is a "Hawken".
Beerd, Thank you!

[pietro]

.

You'll find that that .54 Hawken can be very useful with either patched round balls (PRB's) or a conical, like the T/C MaxiHunter.

The Renegade's were made along the simpler lines of the T/C Cherokee rifles, with no nosecap, patchbox, or brass BP - instead (as noted above) having black furniture (TG/BP).
All Renegade's (.50, .54 & .56 Smoothbore) were issued with a 1" (measured across the flats) octagon bbl.

The .45 Hawken's had a 15/16" bbl, and the .54 Hawken's a 1" bbl - but I misremember if the .50's had a 1" bbl, or were also made with a 15/16" bbl.


You gotcherself a good deal on that early Hawken, for sure.

(T/C made them for awhile before the "HAWKEN" was stamped into the barrel flat just fwd of the caliber designation)


.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Pietro, Thank you!!
As I've been reading, I've wondered what "PRB" meant. So thanks for clearing that up too!

[Beerd]

Pietro, Thank you!!
As I've been reading, I've wondered what "PRB" meant. So thanks for clearing that up too!

Not to be confused with "PBR" :drinks:
..

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Yeah. You kinda need to specify patched roundball every time. Otherwise you end up writing posts about weighing and sorting your balls, and chewed balls, and . . . well it just gets a little weird.

[725]

Wow. You got a great deal there. Enjoy your treasure. Be sure to clean it well after every session at the range. Lots of prior threads on cleaning.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Yea, I can't help but to think of "PBR" when I read that. haha
I have read so many times the need for cleaning and caring for the barrel after firing.
As many times as that's been stressed, it's obvious that's EXTREMELY important.

Here, I get to talk about my "balls". On the BBQ/Smoking site, we get to talk about what we like to rub on our butts.

[OverMax]

There yaw go. (a Pre-warning T/c.) Good start for a caliber 54s make. Keep in mine there are two sweet spot accuracy points. Heavy and another for light charges with the same projectile. Have you decided what you intend on shooting there Bob in St. Louis?__ (what projectile)

I personally don't shoot 50s as I wanted to be different than most. But a do have more than my fair share of 54s because I personally think its the best of all the rest as a big game caliber. Although,
my deer hunting rifle these days is a 45 cal Hawken w/ P/b. Getting old caused me to scout out something having less recoil which the 45 offers. I sure do miss that wallop a 54 dispenses at any range..

[Bulldogger]

I have the Renegade version of that rifle and am very pleased with its accuracy. I think you will come to like it.
BDGR

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thanks fellas!
Not sure what projectile I plan on using. More than likely play around with various 'recipes' and see what's most accurate, and makes the most smoke.

I got my "extras".
- About (200) .54 cal Hornady balls.
- About 25-35 conical bullets
- Several dozen caps
- Large handful of patches
- Bore Butter and bore cleaner
- Ball starter

No other tools though. But about $50 worth of goodies.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the purchase. Can't wait to shoot it!

[pietro]

I got my "extras".

- Bore Butter and bore cleaner




You have all you need for cleaning, Bob - Here's what's worked for me in my T/C's since the early 1980's, never having any internal rust or accuracy issues:

1) Condition the bore

* Remove all oils/grease & fouling from the bore with very hot water until the barrel's warm to the touch, then dry the bore with clean/tight patches (on a jag) before coating the bore with the BoreButter on a loose patch.

* Use the BB patch on the exterior metal parts after the bore's done, then leave it alone until it's shooting/hunting time.



After a day's shooting (best done at the range or at your vehicle after any shot(s), but certainly within a few hours at most:


1) Remove the nipple with a nipple wrench & run it under a hot water tap until it's warm (the heat will help evaporate the water), the set it aside.

2) Pour a bit of the bore cleaner downbore until a little runs out of the bolster (the nipple seat), then scrub the bore with tight patches wetted in the bore cleaner, until they come out a light gray color (no soot/fouling).

(note: T/C's have a "patent breech" with a powder chamber at the rear of the bore that's much smaller then the bore diameter, and while the bore cleaner will usually flush it out, can occasionally benefit from focused cleaning with a .22 or .30 cal cleaning brush)

3) Dry the bore with tight/clean patches until they come out fairly clean (they don't have to be perfectly white)

4) Recoat the bore with BB on a loose patch, as above, use the same patch on the outside, and it'll be good to go (no rust/etc) until your next use.

I've never found the need to run patches downbore after storage & before hunting/shooting - so long as the storage application of BB isn't thick/heavy.

(a heavy application can get pushed downbore into the powder chamber during loading, blocking proper ignition.)

I would recommend having 2 extra jags, one with spiral spring arms for retrieving lost patches from the bore, and the other with a woodscrew tip for pulling out the projectile - sooner or later you WILL suffer from the dreaded "Dry Ball Syndrome" (no powder). ;)

[Bob in St. Louis]

Wow, there's a BUNCH of great information. Thank you!
The two things that raise my eyebrows was the comment about about using too much BB, and ruining the first shot of the next session... and .... The Dry Ball Syndrome (giggle). I'd have scratched my head for quite a while figuring that one out. Would compressed air also work?
THANK YOU Peitro!

[Camper64]

Another recommendation is before you load your first bullet after a cleaning session is to fire a cap with an empty barrel. It will clear the ignition passage.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Excellent, thank you!
Ok... So here's a question for y'all.
Being the "child" that I am, I like the big boom, the smell and the smoke of it all.
That being said, what is the smokiest powder? Of course, this is the equivalent of having a fast car and doing a "burn-out", just with a gun.

[Eddie2002]

My Chrystal ball sees a .54 caliber pistol in your future, might as well work on getting a matched set ;) Nice rifle you got there, have fun going down the BP rabbit hole.

[OverMax]

Which powders create the most smoke?
Elephant brand 2-FFg would be my answer.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thanks for planting THAT seed Eddie. ;)
haha!

OverMax, thank you! I'll look for that. Sounds fun.

[mooman76]

Compressed air works on a dry ball. They also make a thing that used those small compressed air cartridges you can use. I just remove the nipple and put a little powder in and fire it. It is usually enough to launch the ball out. There are a few other methods for real suborn stuck projectiles.

If you are actually in St. Louis I will be moving across the river from you in about 6 months.

[rfd]

i would recommend swiss bp. prolly 2f is a good starter for your t/c. i use 3f in all my flinters - .40 and .54 rifles and a .62 smoothbore. i find swiss to produce less fouling and more consistent "power". as to making smoke, all the brands and sizes will more than please.

with a patent breech chamber, you'll want to add a .32 brush to yer shooting bag to get in there and clean it out, with a draped patch. make SURE to test this out before hitting the range.

since the patent chamber is constricted, the patched ball will never seat on the breech plug itself. this just means that there's a minimum powder charge that must be adhered to else with a less than minimum charge there will be an air space 'tween the powder column and the patched ball. this will not be a good thing for your gun or you. most patent breeches will fill with about 30 grains (volume) of 2f, so bear that in mind.

as to cleaning the gun, tepid water is all that's needed. the big tip to remember is that the sooner you clean, the easier it's gonna be, because the longer you wait the faster that crud will dry and bake into the metal. this is where swiss bp can help with it's cleaner burning and somewhat less fouling. i use gato feo lubed patches, and along with a proper patch thickness and ball size, and that swiss powder, i can go more than a dozen shoots without a need for fouling control.

after the last shot taken at range or afield, i swab out the bore and lock with "moose milk" - a 1:6 blend of water soluble oil (ballistol) and plain water. this keeps the bp residue soft until i get back to the ranch for a proper water cleaning, drying, light oiling.

have fun!

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thank you both!
Mooman, I am on the outskirts of STL, but close enough to call it home. Welcome to the humidity. ;)
RFD, Great info, thank you.

Thanks for the info about the powder charge, specifically.
I've yet to find good tables for recipes, but haven't looked very hard yet. So far, I've concentrated on the overall principles and basics of BP. I might fire a cap, but won't be adding any powder until I find reliable tables. I saw one here, but y'all argued about its accuracy so much, I figured it was trash. haha

[rfd]

for a .530 lead ball in a lubed .015 patch, i'd start with 50 grains of 2f or 3f, work up in 5 grain increments - your max might be 70 to 90 grains, depends on usage. i have a t/c manual somewhere, i'll look up their load spex for ya.

[rfd]

from the 1983 T/C "Shooting Black Powder Guns" pamphlet ...

219714

219713

[Bob in St. Louis]

Awesome, thank you!
Late last night, I'd just found the T/C website and downloaded the .pdf user manual before I went to bed.
Having 50+ pages, it'll be another day before I have time to read it. So thank you for the photos, that's very helpful. I found a video of a guy who's shooting between 60-90. So your recommendation of 50 looks like a perfect starting point.

I was also curious about the age of the rifle. Seems the T/C factory burnt down with the records of serial numbers going up in smoke. From what I've read about fellows posting their numbers, mine was late 80's.

EDIT: Holy Cow!!! I just looked at your photo with a mention of 120 grains!!! WOW!

[rfd]

the online T/C manual isn't the same as the original one from the 80's, and is only about their last offering which was only a fifty.

[Eddie2002]

120 grains in a .54 caliber, I would pad your shoulder with a towel for that one. LOL

[rfd]

120 grains in a .54 is medicine for grizzlies, not deer, and absolutely not steel or paper. i use a load of between 50 and 60 grains of 3f for a .54 flinter woods walk, anything more is a waste. lots will also depend on the load, where i like a "loose" grease patched ball.

[evoevil]

Nice smoke pole, I have the same one. Kicks like a mule but shoots good

[Bob in St. Louis]

the online T/C manual isn't the same as the original one from the 80's, and is only about their last offering which was only a fifty.

Sorry, ya lost me on that one???

"Smoke pole", I love that. haha

[Bob in St. Louis]

Yea, 120 grains sound like something ya do once. Just once. haha

[mooman76]

It just means you can do 120gr. It doesn't mean you should or need to. Many people think you have to crank out max loads but you generally get best with much lower loads. Even hunting loads don't need to be that stout.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Understood, thank you. Yea, I'll sneak up on that. No need to find the weakest link on the first day. I don't want to remove my face or turn the rifle into multiple pieces on the first shot. We might sneak up on that number, but like's been mentioned, about 50 seems like a nice comfy starting number.

[Bob in St. Louis]

The Davenport Formula is saying about 74 grains. That falls right in line with the 50-90 range.

[mooman76]

I usually start even with the caliber for rifles and half that for pistols and small caliber rifles. So, 50 gr for 50 caliber and then work up from there. There is a point where if you load enough powder, you are just wasting powder a bruising you shoulder and gaining nothing. You actually can go less powder two. Some people like to work up light loads.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Agreed! I've heard a couple times that 50-60 is a good starting point for me. The confirmation is welcome.
50 sounds great to me. Thank you!

[Eddie2002]

I shot 90 grains of 3F in my .50 caliber CVA with a PRB once which was all I needed. 50-60 grains will start you out just fine.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Excellent, thank you Eddie.

I just ran a borescope down the barrel. Uhg. Nasty. Lots of brown, and lots of little green splotchy areas.
Did a preliminary with a bristle tipped brush, then gave it a dozen patches of TC (official) cleaner. Made progress, but it looks like I've got a long road ahead of me.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Alright fellas.. I'm picking through the ziplock bags of various goodies that came with the rifle.
For the life of me, I can't figure out what this is.
Help please!?!?
(NOTE: For size reference, the black cord, is just a bit thinner than paracord)

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31870446_311030109429446_3083311821562576896_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=ed511e5fafbd913061ae963aaec462e6&oe=5B5F33E5

[Camper64]

Alright fellas.. I'm picking through the ziplock bags of various goodies that came with the rifle.
For the life of me, I can't figure out what this is.
Help please!?!?
(NOTE: For size reference, the black cord, is just a bit thinner than paracord)

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31870446_311030109429446_3083311821562576896_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=ed511e5fafbd913061ae963aaec462e6&oe=5B5F33E5

That is what they call a bore snake cleaner but it's not for your ML. Is there a tag on it to indicate what caliber it's for.

[Bob in St. Louis]

No Sir, no tag.
At 9 o'clock on the braided part is a wickedly stiff brass "brush".
Sure seems like this would fit down the throat of a 12 gauge shotgun (.70 cal) better than the ML (.54 cal).

[Bob in St. Louis]

Also... that brass ferrule on the end of the "paracord" isn't going to make the 90 degree turn out of the barrel into the "nipple hole" (sorry, lack of vocabulary).

[rfd]

bore snakes are for breech load guns, not muzzleloaders. get and use a brass range rod with muzzle protector for yer serious cleaning and just use the classic wooden ramrod during woods walk shooting. get and learn to use a ball worm, because we all dry ball eventually - it's a rite of passage. start off with an easy loading grease patched ball load and leave the short starter and hammer in the shooting box. the easy load will also make retrieving that dry ball load Much easier. this stuff need not be made complicated, think the early 19th century, think simple, think easy, think fun, and not unnecessary work. this is the way it was done back in the day, when lives depended on guns to first and foremost work every time the trigger was pulled. that's all part of the heritage of a hawken.

[Camper64]

You are probably correct about the 12 gauge. I have three of them one for 12 gauge, 22/223 and 40 cal.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thanks men.
Yea, I see why this snake has never been used (because you CAN'T). Not sure why it even came with this sale, but "whatever".
I used my 12gauge bristles to clean the ML, but it's like throwing a hotdog down a hallway. There's a LOT of clearance.

I'll use the snake on my VEPR12. She's a dirty gal that needs a good snake.

"Ball worm" = Is that the threaded screw on the end of the rod?

[mooman76]

I don't recall it being called that but I'd say yes. Looks like a screw. A patch work looks like a cork screw for retrieving patches.

[rfd]

ball worm, screw, puller ...

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/ball-puller_1.jpg

patch worm, puller ...

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/worm-cork-8_1.jpg

[Texas by God]

Hot soapy water and cloth patches on a .54 cleaning jag are all that's needed unless it's rusted inside. Never use a shotgun Tornado brush because if it sticks it is a booger to remove- exerience talking here[emoji55]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[rfd]

ah yes, so many ways to clean out the bp residue. i would never recommend hot soapy anything. ain't needed, no way no how. keep the soap, the peroxide, the antifreeze, and all it's ilk out and away from the barrel steel. tepid tap water is all that's needed. if anything, adding in some water soluble oil might make us all feel warm and fuzzy that it's better than plain water, but truthfully it ain't. when the patches come out *reasonably* clean, a light oiled patch is all that's needed for storage protection 'til the next time it's loaded. the key to all this is addressing the residue ASAP. you leave it sitting for any length of time, specially in the hot/dry weather conditions of the so'west and man, there's gonna be work getting that cr@p outta the steel. take care of yer guns, boys.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thanks men.
Just to clarify my early comment about a 12 gauge brush being too small in diameter to clean the .54 caliber, it's a brush that came with a "generic long gun" cleaning kit. I'm sure some of you were scratching your heads about that.

I did run an illuminated borescope down the barrel, and it was pretty bad. Lots of green in there. :(

The continued help is much appreciated !

[rfd]

green in the bore is not a bad thing, pitting of the steel is the enemy. pull off the barrel from its hooked breech, plug the nipple and let the barrel soak for about 15 minutes with a moose milk solution (1 part ballistol, 6 parts water). tepid oily water will not promote flash rusting, hot water will. pull the nipple plug and shove that end in a bucket of clean water. run a tight patched jag up and down the barrel whilst the ignition end is in the bucket - water will be drawn and expelled out the nipple in a hydraulic fashion. check the bore for cleaning progress. a bronze brush *may* be required, but do the patched jag thing first.

[Bob in St. Louis]

That bucket technique is a new one I've not heard before, but makes sense about pulling fresh clean water in. I went through a LOT of cleaning fabric last night and finally gave up. The entire time I was thinking, "there's got to be a quicker way". I think yours is it!
Thank ya Sir!

Side note... I was thinking about using an automotive washer fluid pump with a rubber vacuum line attached to the nipple of the barrel. Barrel in a bucket and pointing straight up in the air. Basically, it would work like a pond fountain, if that makes sense. Point is, you can flush the thing and simply walk away while it's flushing.

[rfd]

... Side note... I was thinking about using an automotive washer fluid pump with a rubber vacuum line attached to the nipple of the barrel. Barrel in a bucket and pointing straight up in the air. Basically, it would work like a pond fountain, if that makes sense. Point is, you can flush the thing and simply walk away while it's flushing.

imho, totally unnecessary and complicates what is essential simple.

the hydraulic pail process outlined above is all that's needed.

think early 19th century and not early 21st century. ;)

[Eddie2002]

For an initial cleaning I would get a .54 caliber brush and scrub with the breach end of the barrel in a bucket of warm water. Pull the nipple and use some dishwashing detergent squirted down the barrel as you scrub. After that rinse with warm water and patch till clean then send an oily patch down to keep the rust off. There are a lot of ways to skin the cat, find one that you like and stay with it.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I try to find ways to spend unnecessary money on projects that take hours to build that ultimately perform near necessary tasks that save me scant seconds. Minutes at best. But the contraptions are certainly neat.
Thanks fellas!

[greywuuf]

Green in the barrel usually means copper (or some combination like brass or gliding metal) which means it was used with jacketed slugs or a really agressive bronze brush that left bits behind.....regardless ....the bucket method with some detergent (depending on what lube was last used many are not water soluable ) and a tight patch ..maybe resorting to some flitz or JB as a final polish near the end should clean it up rather nicely. Be carefull to use a small caliber brush to clean the "patent breach" as well (google it so that you understand) ....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[rfd]

a typical offshore patent breech, this one with a touch hole for a flinter. notice the threads that the constricted chamber will secure into the larger bore barrel, ...

https://i.imgur.com/L9HTXn7.jpg

barrel threads to accept the patent breech ...

https://i.imgur.com/9etQVMo.jpg

this should make it quite clear - flinter on the left, cap gun on the right ...

https://i.imgur.com/hQv38Kw.jpg

[curator]

RFD,

I believe you have inverted the two drawings in that the one on the right is the Nock's patent
breech. The one on the left is the breeching method of Many other flint lock manufacturers including Manton, Mortimer, et al.

[rfd]

curator - yes, you are spot on, but for illustration purposes the breech on the right gives one the concept of a cap lock patent breech, with clean out screw (actually, pressure relief port) only the flue and antechamber would be as one, as shown in the touch hole patent breech on the left. just showing how constricted the ante-chamber/flue is and why a small patched brush is needed to clean it all out because a patched bore jag will never get in there, and will only force the crud into that flue, which will not make for good ignition.

here are measurements i took off a GPR .50, to show the ante-chamber and bore sizes ...

219805

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ahhh, interesting. When I had the barrel off, I wonder about that last inch. That obvious seam there, and what was inside. Now I get it, thanks Gentlemen.

Greywuuf. That makes sense. I wondered what kind of "metallurgy" was going on to create that much green. Now I get it, thank you.

I wish I could show the videos of before/after from the borescope, but the software is proprietary enough that the videos don't show in the iPhone library as even existing.
Thanks again fellas!

[dsayer]

You've got plenty of people giving you loads of solid advice in this thread. So I don't really have anything to add other than welcome to the crazy world of muzzleloading! And sweet deal on that rifle. $150 is a steal!!

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thank you!
Yes indeed, lots of quality information here. I'm going to make myself a cheat-sheet to keep it all straight and organized.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Hey fellas, I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this question, but... here I go.
I bought myself a nipple wrench, but the hole in it is too small. In my searches, I've found the difference between a "side-lock", and which wrench will work for my gun, but no where (and I mean NO WHERE) did it mention the size of the nipple. I did not know that was "a thing".
I've check the users manual and it does not mention what size nipple the rifle has.

So.. the wrench I bought says it's for #11, but its hole is too small.
Unfortunately, when I search the internet for "sizes of nipples"..... well... never mind. [smilie=b:
Any assistance would be much appreciated.

[pietro]

.

What you might look for is a T/C combo tool. with a hammer & hook for pulling the barrel wedge for cleaning it out of the stock, with the proper nipple wrench:

https://p1.gunbroker.com/pics/770847000/770847763/pix240463660.jpg

This is a new one for sale: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/770847763

The T/C Hawken takes a nipple with a 1/4-28 thread.

Track Of The Wolf has the nipples: https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1


.

[triggerhappy243]

Bob in St loui, the wrench you have may be for a revolver.

[725]

If you have access to some basic machinery, making one is pretty simple. Drill a hole in a rod end, slice a section out of the middle so it fits over the nipple, & attach a handle. The handle can be as simple as a vise grip clamped on.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thanks fellas!
I found the T/C combo tool on Amazon for $14 (free shipping since I'm Prime). So just a heads up, it's $11 less than Gunbroker.
Thanks for the heads up on that one!

So... Had my first "outing" today. I ran 50 grain, 100 grain and 120 grain with roundball.
Got about a half dozen shots off before I lost focus and had my first 'dryball'.
I thought I was too smart to do such a thing, but life reminded me I'm not as sharp as I'd like to think.
It was then I discovered the ball extraction tool I bought doesn't have the same threads as the cleaning rod.
Good thing, since I only had only started the ball, and it was flush with the end of the barrel.
Drilled a hole, ran a screw in it, and use channel locks, came right out.

In case you're curious to see, here's my .54 Hawken in action, my back yard, and my fat belly.

50 grain:
https://youtu.be/B0EvmKn8Flg

100 grain:
https://youtu.be/T6WbiWTelF0

120 grain:
https://youtu.be/lvaE2xzReeM

Thanks again for all the support guys!
Bob

[T-Bird]

be aware that if you're shooting fff instead of ff (like it says in the description below the videos), the finer fff will be a larger charge than the coarser ff if measured by vol.

[Bob in St. Louis]

be aware that if you're shooting fff instead of ff (like it says in the description below the videos), the finer fff will be a larger charge than the coarser ff if measured by vol.
Oh wow! Good information. Any idea how much I really had in there?
Thanks for the information!

[rfd]

120 grains of 3f in a t/c .54 is an over max load for sure ...

https://i.imgur.com/G3ZF1YR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/66e8xno.jpg

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ok, thank you. I was unaware of the difference in load with the two powders.
Great information guys, thank you VERY much!

[T-Bird]

As far as how much you had in there, I guess you could weigh in grains the 120 fff charge, then see what volume of ff it took to weigh that much. Historically, blk pwdr has always been measured by volume not wt tho.

[Bob in St. Louis]

That's an idea. If I can find a place near me to buy 3g, I'll compare the two. Just for giggles.

[Beerd]

Now that you know what it feels like to shoot 120 grains, go to a range where you can bench rest that riflegun and work up an accuracy load starting back at 50 gr and increasing the powder charge in 5 grain increments. Minimum 5 shot groups with each change. Somewhere around 60 or 70 grains you are going to be smiling.
..

[Bob in St. Louis]

That sounds like a fantastic idea. What distance would you recommend?

[rfd]

fwiw, all my initial testing is always at 25yds.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ok, good deal.
I've yet to measure out anything in my yard that far, but I should be able to get that distance without a problem.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ok, so here's an interesting problem.... I was using a .45 caliber brush as a jag to clean with. The fit was about perfect after wrapping a cleaning cloth around it. The brush came apart from its threaded 'base', and is now stuck all the way at the bottom of the barrel. I've taken the nipple off and used compressed air to no avail. Nothing I've stuck down there will grab it.
I've thought about pouring a small charge into the nipple hole, and firing it, but thought I'd ask y'all before I learn a lesson the hard way.

[mooman76]

1st Don't use cheap brushes and you now know why. When you use a brush turn the brush clock wise before pulling back out. That turns the bristles so they aren't reversing themselves. Get a thin piece of pipe that is just under your bore size but as close to bore size as possible but will still slide down the barrel. It needs to be as deep as your barrel and the object is to get it around your brush so it is wedged in the pipe material rather than your barrel.

I use a older brush that is well worn so it doesn't fit so tight but I also wrap a cleaning swab around the brush to clean.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ahhh, that's a fantastic idea, thank you!

This bristle didn't "unscrew", it just came apart. But yes, "cheap" didn't serve me well, at all.
Great info, thank you!

[rfd]

i don't EVER use a brush for BORE rifle fouling control or cleaning. i wanna use a patched jag in order to force the patch material into the rifling grooves. i size the jag and patch for a loose fit for fouling control and a tighter fit for cleaning.

HOWEVER, *IF* i have to deal with a patent breech's ante-chamber, THEN i must use a .32 brush (bronze or nylon) with a draped patch, because a patched smaller jag won't get that job done well if at all.

i address a fouling control patch with spit, water, or moose milk. cleaning requires tepid tap WATER, but moose milk is ok too as it usually makes folks feel warm and fuzzy by thinking it's gonna be better (it ain't). as an aside, taking care of fouling/cleaning maintenance ASAP is why i don't ever need chemicals and other cr@p for cleaning. ymmv.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thank you!
The hardware store didn't have any pipe suitable. I ended up using a coat hanger with the end shaped like a corkscrew.
Took about 15 minutes of diddling with it, but finally got it out.
Thanks fellas!

[Beerd]

Bob,
if you think you hear giggling it's because you're not the first one to stick a brush in a barrel ;-)
..

[Bob in St. Louis]

Oh yea, no doubt. I've heard it a couple times in this thread. Between the giggles and head-shakes, and half grins, I'm sure y'all are having fun with my ignorance. I'm good with it. I am nothing if not humble and modest, and have no problem looking like an idiot publicly. It's the quickest way to learn, I've found. haha

[rfd]

heck, we're humans, we're all ignorant about one thing or another, and ignorance is a good title to have, it proves our humanity, and i wear mine well. hopefully we're shown and then we learn, and lose that ignorance title and become ed-u-ma-cated. choosing to use what we've learned depends on whether the matter is subjective or objective. in the case of objective, if we ignore what we've learned, we get to lose that ignorance title for a new title that isn't a good one.

[Texas by God]

Heck, Bob I stuck a Tornado brush in my .54 and had to use a drain snake to get it out! And now I know. Maybe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Regular Joe]

If you feel you have to use a brush, get one from Cain's Outdoors. They are built so that that there is less chance they will pull loose from the stud. But never say never....

[Bob in St. Louis]

Amen fellas. But the difference between ignorance, and stupidity (although HERE, I feel it should be called "Stoopidity") is whether or not we tempt fate and try the same dumb thing again. I have no doubt I'll do it again, although I hope I find the correct tool some day before it happens again.
Of course this time, it happened when I was "showing off" to my son. These kind of things never happen when we're alone.
Times like these make me laugh at how God and life in general teach us the true definition of modesty and humility.
Thanks all for your continued assistance.

[rfd]

bob, yer gun has a patent breech, and as such you will need a .32 brush and patch to get into it, clean it out, and light oil it. you will need to use that brush and dry clean patches to swab out most of the oil before loading. this is in addition to the patched jag for swabbing/cleaning out the bore. don't use a brush in the bore, it's totally not needed there and will not do as good a job as a patched jag. but the little brush is important for that patent breech. that's all there is to that, other than enjoying some good shootin'.

[Regular Joe]

That's correct. But, get that .32 cal brush from Cain's. They are on Ebay.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Good info, thanks fellas!