2nd casting attempt, still struggling..

[Road_Clam]

So today I tried my new moulds. I have a 45 cal Old West 525 Silouette greaser mould which is brass, and a BACO 545 Money PP mould which is steel. Casting the Money PP slick I was getting good results and I was satisfied. I struggled quite a bit with the Old West silouette mould. I had a very hard time getting nice square edges at the grease grooves. Some casts would look good, while others had irregular curved edges all around the grooves. I tried varying the lead temp, tried adding some tin, and different mould temps. Nothing really worked consistent. How can I go about diagnosing what i'm doing wrong ? Thanks for the help !

[MyFlatline]

Normally temperature is the culprit IMO. To hot just makes a frosted bullet that shoots well. Run the temp. up a bit, then mix in some tin. Make sure you stir it in well. What is the lead that you are using?

[jeepyj]

Others may say different but my limited experience with brass moulds you have to run them a bit faster and a bit hotter. Maybe a couple of photos for us to be able to give you the maximum amount of help.

[Grmps]

A few questions:
what alloy are you using?
what temperature are you casting at
how are you casting these (bottom pour pot or dipper)
are you pre-warming your molds

[Road_Clam]

Others may say different but my limited experience with brass moulds you have to run them a bit faster and a bit hotter. Maybe a couple of photos for us to be able to give you the maximum amount of help.

Yes, I did observe some different charastics when trying to cast with the steel mould vs the brass. I think my next cast session I will pour using only one mould. I did observe the brass mould as needing more heat, and the freshly casted brass mould bullet cools much quicker than the steel.

[Road_Clam]

A few questions:
what alloy are you using?
what temperature are you casting at
how are you casting these (bottom pour pot or dipper)
are you pre-warming your molds

I was using some 20-1 casted lead that I bought here which tests right at 10 bhn. I tried adding just a small amount of pure tin but didn't notice much difference. My lead temps were from 600 to 750F . I had a very hard time correctly positioning the sprue fill hole directly under the flow nozzle. I was frequently missing the hole and the lead would not flow into the mould. After about 2 hours of practice I finally was getting nice pours directly in the center of the sprue fill hole. I also kept my moulds hot on a propane burner. I think my mould temps were pretty close, I would pour and the molten puddle on the top of the sprue would go from hot shiny silver to cooled dull hazy silver in about 4 seconds ? I'm quickly learning that casting clean bullets is an acquired art skillset and this isn't something i'm going to master overnight. Good thing is when I screw up a large batch of bullets, no loss just remelt !

[MyFlatline]

Tilt the mold just a touch when pouring, I found that helps with venting..

[country gent]

Your moulds may need a few casting sessions to help develop the patina on them this helps both with release and fill out. I cast these big bullets with a modified Rcbs ladle, the spout hole is opened up to .210 dia giving a faster pour fill to the mould. My mould is a 550 grn shilouetter brass 2 cavity from Old West Moulds it casts great for me. Heres my break in and casting procedures.

I start a new mould out with a good thorogh cleaning first with laquer thinner and a soft brush, then with dish soap hot tap water and a tooth brush. I then use a bamboo skewer to insure vent lines are clear. I then heat cycle the mould 3 times 450* for 1/2 hour and slow cool down. I then clean again soap and water. dry oil sprue late, hinge block screws and handle hinge. I pre heat the mould while lead is warming up. When casting my alloy (20-1) is kept around 720*-750*. I flux at the start and as needed after. The ladle gets a 10 min "soak" in the alloy also. I pour at a pretty quick rate using 2 moulds. I don't pour for a sprue but fill ladle and fill cavity pouring the remainder into the sprue hole letting the excess run back into the pot. This keeps the base molten longer allowing for off gassing and better fill out. I also thrw the first 5-8 drops back in the pot with out looking at them. I get better bullets with the ladles fast fills than the bottom pour pots. With 2 moulds Ill cast 400-500 bullets in a setting. ( My propane fired pot holds a little over 100 lbs)

My PP is a brooks adjustable nose pour with cup base and the smooth slug casts and drops easily. This is also cast of 20-1 and same basic temps and procedure as above. Aain it did take a couple sessions to season up. I don't think the newer preservatives or cutting fluids are as easy to clean as the older ones were hence the 2 step process of lauquer thinner to remove the worst then Soap and water to remove any residue. My brass moulds hold heat better than aluminum or steel I think.

My last pointer is when casting cast, don't sort or inspect it slows your cadence down to much. once the blocks get up to temp you can slow down cadence a little to keep from over heating.

[Bazoo]

If your sprue plate is not up to temperature, it can cause you to have wrinkles and poor fillout, even if the mould blocks themselves are hot enough. Pour a nice big sprue will keep the place hot which will do 2 things. It will allow the lead to draw more from the puddle when filling out and keep the melt from cooling as it goes through the hole. This is less of a problem with moulds that are made of the same material as the sprue plate.

[daloper]

On bigger boolits I find that I need to keep the temp on my PID set at 725 to get good pours. I also found that if I pour with to fine of a stream I don't get a good fill. I have to open it up and fill the cavity faster.

[evoevil]

my brass molds like heat. I run 2 at a time. it helps with the timing

[Walter Laich]

as mentioned above:

hotter temp

quicker pour

try to get lead directly into hole of the sprue plate

good flow rate--a bit higher than for smaller sized bullets

[bangerjim]

Brass loves heat!!!!!!!!

Preheat to FULL casting temp on an electric hotplate.

Work faster.

I have several brass molds and prefer them to the many Lee aluminum ones I have. I don't like my Fe molds because you have to worry about rusting all the time.

Most start simple with Lee Al molds and work up into brass and Fe after they get the casting thing figured out.

[vzerone]

I find the opposite then most of you on brass moulds. Say I'm running the Mihec 30 Sil 4 cavity mould. Getting it hot the bullets won't release from the mould.

That 4 second on the sprue solidifying is perfect. Longer then that and you are too hot, shorter you are too cold. How are your bases coming out? If they aren't filling out quite well too, then you need to just break the corner edge on the top of the block. That is the inside corner edge. Just barely break them with a stone or very fine file.

The largest tip I can give you is the most extensive for you being you're set up for a bottom pour and that is go to ladle casting. The problem with a bottom pour is it has too much pressure especially when the pot is full. When you adjust the flow screw all that does is adjusts the volume not the pressure.

With 20-1 alloy you have plenty enough tin so don't add more of that.

[Hairy Dawg]

My NOE brass mold for 242 gr. 30 cal. has to run quite a bit hotter than my steel or aluminum molds. I run the same pot temp for all of them, but the mold temp is about 150 degrees hotter on the brass.

[Road_Clam]

Thanks guys for all the input. I'll focus on some quicker flow . I did observe the fact my baco pp mould has a slightly larger sprue fill hole vs the Old West. I definitely had better results with the baco mould. I was using my LEE pro 20# pot for pours and I have the flow almost maxed out. Im thinking I will have to step up to a ladle pour method.

[sharps4590]

Get an RCBS dipper and hand pour. I have never been able to cast nearly so good bullets bottom pouring as I can cast with a dipper.

[lightman]

Trying to cast with two different molds made of two different materials will be a real challenge. I would suggest using one mold per session until you learn each mold. Your poor fill out problem sounds like either the temperature is too low or your flow rate is too slow. The low temp could be either your alloy or your mold.

[plainsman456]

I sometime like to get the stream to hit on the side of the sprue hole and let it swirl in.

The brass molds like to be warmer than steel.
It does take some trying to get the fill right because they all have different likes.

[Arkansas Paul]

Get an RCBS dipper and hand pour. I have never been able to cast nearly so good bullets bottom pouring as I can cast with a dipper.

I also ladle bigger bullets.
For .40 and .357/.38 I use the bottom pour. For .44 and .45 Colt, I ladle. It just works better for me.

[Pardini]

Thanks guys for all the input. I'll focus on some quicker flow . I did observe the fact my baco pp mould has a slightly larger sprue fill hole vs the Old West. I definitely had better results with the baco mould. I was using my LEE pro 20# pot for pours and I have the flow almost maxed out. Im thinking I will have to step up to a ladle pour method.

Not familiar with Lee pots, but increasing or decreasing the distance between the top of the mould and the nozzle can make a bit of difference.

[Road_Clam]

I also ladle bigger bullets.
For .40 and .357/.38 I use the bottom pour. For .44 and .45 Colt, I ladle. It just works better for me.

Agreed. This was my first run of 525+ gr bullets and i'm pretty sure my LEE Pro pot simply lacks sufficient flow speed to fill such a large grease grooved mould. Too bad as the LEE Pro pot is just awesome for pouring as it functions perfect for smaller pours. I casted some 312-180 RN's and those bullets came out very nice. Good news is my BACO 535 paper patch mould does not have grease grooves and those casts came out very good even using the LEE pot. The only bullet I will need to ladle pour is my Old West 545 grease groove mould.

[TXGunNut]

Sounds like you have this pretty well figured out, OP. It's been my experience that the big old school single/double moulds like to be ladle poured. May be the pour rate, may be pressure pouring. I don't know. Some moulds need to be scrubbed, heat cycled and/or broken in. They all need to be at the correct temperature; some just get there easier than others. When you figure out what these moulds need to drop great boolits, write it down! Next time you get the mould out, check your notes.
My load notes notebook has a page or two in each cartridge section where I try to write down what it takes to make a given mould happy. They may look like blocks of metal but just like rifles, they all have personalities. Learn what your mould wants and give it what it wants and everybody's happy.

[samari46]

I had a 10lb Lyman bottom pour lead pot. Try as I might could not get decent cast no matter what I tried. removed the valve pieces and plugged the spout by drilling and tapping the hole then added a screw. Got a Lyman casting dipper and never looked back. My alloy is wheel weights with 2% tin added. Frank

[Oily]

Have you measured" miked" the boolits with the rounded lube grooves compared to the " square" lube grooved boolits to see what you actually have in diameter. Unless I missed something in this post this is a important piece of info. If you have a micrometer use it. If not a digital caliper will do. If you diameters are the same they should shoot good. If you are shooting 1000 yds then you will be weighing each boolit and these will be rejected. 2% tin should give you good fillout and square lube grooves, if not it is your casting method. I cast 535 gr boolits in a single cavity iron Lyman mould and a antique 525 gr mould. All are with a LEE 20# pot bottom pour and no problems. Keep your lead temp high and cast as quick as you can and you will get good boolits. Don't worry if you get frosted boolits. That means you can slow down. Big boolits are a challenge but if you pay attention to details and document them they will be as easy as 30 cal. If your LEE 20# doesn't pour fast enough you may consider drilling the spout out. As all mass produced items maybe yours has a small spout. Use only the next size numbered drill bit to open the orifice up and try it and then proceed from there. Good luck my friend

[gwpercle]

I had a 10lb Lyman bottom pour lead pot. Try as I might could not get decent cast no matter what I tried. removed the valve pieces and plugged the spout by drilling and tapping the hole then added a screw. Got a Lyman casting dipper and never looked back. My alloy is wheel weights with 2% tin added. Frank
I bought a Lee Magnum Melter ( 20 lb.) and a new Lyman casting dipper and wish I had done that years ago. I gave the 10 lb bottom pour to a fellow member who lost his stuff in a house fire.
The 20 lb. pot beats the 10 lb. pot seven ways to Sunday.
Gary

[robg]

I use a 10 lb Lee pot ,for big boolits 400 g upwards run pot hot and cast fast to keep the mold hot for good fill out with smaller boolits I usually run two or three molds to allow more time for sprues to cool .