Looking for 44-40 mold

[Mach_Cat]

I am looking at the NOE molds for 44-40. They have a larger lube groove for black powder. Their die is a 432-200.
So I assume this is dating at 432 dia? When sizing this, how much smaller can it be sized down? 427? 429? ....
This will be shot in a new Henry arms 1860.
I have not slugged the barrel.

Thanks ed

[Outpost75]

Advise you cast your chamber and origin of rifling. Modern Henry rifles have barrel bore and groove diameters of .44 Magnum dimensions also in the .44-40 caliber and a .430- .432 bullet is most likely correct.

[Mach_Cat]

Outpost, I have read that about the new 44-40s.
I would still like to know how much you can size a bullet down from cast size.
Thanks ed

[Mach_Cat]

Also when buying Noe molds they have alum molds and brass molds.
Is there a reason to buy one over the other.

[Outpost75]

Also when buying Noe molds they have alum molds and brass molds.
Is there a reason to buy one over the other.

I prefer a bullet which drops close to desired diameter so as not to require more than minimal sizing. More than 0.002" damages the bullet. I prefer aluminum molds as in a 4-5 cavity the lighter blocks are less tiring to use. Brass is traditional,but more expensive and easily damaged.

[gpidaho]

I have a Saeco #61444 mould that is a one cavity in magnum blocks it drops a bullet at .428-.429 depending on alloy. PM me if interested in purchase. Gp

[Mach_Cat]

Thank you for the offer. The noe has a much larger lube ring, for the black powder.

[Outpost75]

Accurate also has a number of .44-40 blackpowder designs of proven performance with ample lube capacity, the 42-215C John Kort bullet is among the very best.

[Mach_Cat]

The 43-215c or the 43-205m both have the large bands.
Both the noe and accurate look like what I am after.
The accurate comes in iron brass or alum. Is the iron the best long lasting mold?
Less chance of me screwing up?

[Outpost75]

The 43-215c or the 43-205m both have the large bands.
Both the noe and accurate look like what I am after.
The accurate comes in iron brass or alum. Is the iron the best long lasting mold?
Less chance of me screwing up?

The aluminum cannot rust. I live in a humid climate and got rid of all of my iron molds.
I've had no durability issues with the Accurate hand molds either hand or machine casting.

On any Accurate mold you can specify the band and nose diameter as needed and tweak for your alloy, and you can also specify whether you want tolerance positive, negative or centered. It is possible to have the band tolerance positive and nose tolerance north of the crimp groove negative.

[Springfield]

I have the Accurate 43-205m. I can send you a few as cast if you would like to try them out. My daughter, son and I all shoot 44-40 Blackpowder in SASS shooting. I have found that .429 works with our Uberti rifles just fine if the alloy is soft. I have sized them down to as far as .427 for others, they seemed to work well also, but we only shoot at SASS distances, so extreme accuracy is not critical. I have a few NOE and Accurate molds, they all work great. I have put a few thousand bullets through some of them and they show no sign of damage. They seem to hold up better than 6 cav LEE mouds, of which I have a few of also. I also use my brass Mihec HP moulds once in a while. They cast great but they are certainly much heavier. Unless you plan on casting 40,000 or more bullets I wouldn't worry about the aluminum not holding up.

[holsterguy]

If you go to CAScity forum, there are a few posts by John Kort aka w44wcf. He did extensive testing with the 44-40 and black powder. Talks about bullet, powder, primer, etc. His post titled My black powder journey, I think, is a very good read. Just go to that forum and use the advanced search for w44wcf posts. There's a bunch of em. Also a video floatin around there of him using a (iirc) 43-215c at 300 yds on steel ram targets.

[Outpost75]

John's passing was a great loss to those of us who were mentored by him.

Fortunately his writings have been preserved and his knowledge and wisdom will live on.

Agree his treatise on the .44-40 is the most complete ever published by any author of any era.

[59sharps]

I bought a moose mould 44-40 lovevut. Shoots great groups w 28 grn 3fffg OE

[cajun shooter]

John and I were friends for many years and traded BP info on the 44 wcf and lubes. John shot a Marlin with a 22" bbl and that is why he needed the xtra lube of the bullet he designed.
I had Tom at Accurate make the first BP bullet for the 44wcf and it's the 43-210. If you do a search of John's postings you will find a video posted by him shooting my bullet out of his Marlin at Rams which were at 300 yards. His Marlin did great with my bullet and his SPG until about 15 shots were fired. I never had any problem with my 73 and 92's as I had 18 and 20 inch bbls and I used NASA lube. I was able to get John to use some NASA lube and he liked it which he stated in one posting.
You will see my bullet design which is an improved 42098 Lyman design as is John's design also. That is the original bullet that Winchester designed for the 73 rifle and it has served well for many years.
The powder of the time was much better than what we had in our time and did not require huge bullet lube grooves to work. You have to be very careful with the huge lube grooves as the bullets tend to tumble at longer ranges. Several of the test runs by John, John Boy, myself and others had the Big Lube bullets come apart and fly erratic at long range.
My most prized piece is the reprint of the Winchester 1873 catalog that John gave me many years ago. While going through many of his postings, you may find him talking about Fairshake, well that is me also. When I first became a member of Cast Boolits, it was my first website and I decided to use a name that would give
everyone a idea of my location and heritage. I then joined SASS and came up with the handle Fairshake, which is what I use on SASS and other websites. I guess I should have changed on this forum but did not want to start my posting count over.
John will forever be in my mind as everytime I log on, I think about him. Later David

[Savvy Jack]

I am looking at the NOE molds for 44-40. They have a larger lube groove for black powder. Their die is a 432-200.
So I assume this is dating at 432 dia? When sizing this, how much smaller can it be sized down? 427? 429? ....
This will be shot in a new Henry arms 1860.
I have not slugged the barrel.

Thanks ed


I have an NOE 43-200 for sale if interested


Springfield Slim right? I added your name to the 43-205M.....
https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/44wcf-bullet-molds

[Savvy Jack]

If you go to CAScity forum, there are a few posts by John Kort aka w44wcf. He did extensive testing with the 44-40 and black powder. Talks about bullet, powder, primer, etc. His post titled My black powder journey, I think, is a very good read. Just go to that forum and use the advanced search for w44wcf posts. There's a bunch of em. Also a video floatin around there of him using a (iirc) 43-215c at 300 yds on steel ram targets.


https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/single-post/2014/12/20/My-44-40-Black-Powder-Journey


https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/accuracy-at-300-by-meters

[Marlin356]

Unless you plan serious target shooting the Lee 220 gr is a great 44-40 (special and magnum) mold for inexpensive shooting. I PC them and shoot as cast in everything "44".

[country gent]

My new steel frame Henry original is a beautiful rifle and the case hardening is very nice. With Starline brass a .430 bullet is "tight" the rifle will chamber it but drag is felt in the lever. I believe they are set up as the old 44-40s for .427 bullets

[Savvy Jack]

My new steel frame Henry original is a beautiful rifle and the case hardening is very nice. With Starline brass a .430 bullet is "tight" the rifle will chamber it but drag is felt in the lever. I believe they are set up as the old 44-40s for .427 bullets

You may have a tight chamber and a large bore. Can you slug the barrel to find out? Could also be an AOL issue. Chamber a round and eject it, check to see if the rifling leaves marks on the bullet ogive area. The following link is for oversized chambers BUT there is a photo that shows rifling marks on a chambered round as an example of AOL or an oversized bullet diameter issue. The only thing wrong is that this will cause higher chamber pressures with hard lead bullets and even higher chamber pressures with soft lead bullets.
https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/single-post/2017/12/19/Over-sized-Bullet-for-Over-Sizes-Bores-Original-Winchester-73-Bores

[country gent]

When I tried the test rounds and felt the increased resistance I dropped a round in the chamber with the action open and it was up the length of the neck. no engravings on the bullets. Since the bullet is a hollow based bullet I pulled the de priming rod and sized a couple test rounds back down these went in from gravity into the chamber. Pain having to raise them with a cleaning rod though. I also measured to see if I had created a small bulge with the very light crimp I had applied.


44-40 brass is thinner than a lot of brass a plus sealing chamber and sizing ease. But it also expands around bigger bullets rather than size the bullets down. My brass measures around .007 thick in the necks.