Ebay micrometers

[ChuckJaxFL]

I have a digital caliper. It’s ok, but it’s not a micrometer. Plus, I’m tired of dead batteries. It doesn’t burn through them, I’m just sick of reaching for a tool and finding that it’s dead.

I was thinking about grabbing a $40-$50 Starret 230 off of eBay. Good idea? Do they tend to be ok used? Should I abandon the notion & put out for a new one?


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[Boolit_Head]

The starrets were going for pretty high prices when I looked. I ended up getting a used older Enco that I had read good things about and it has served me well.

[KenT7021]

Enco mikes made in Poland were good.Buying used measuring tools from a photo is always a risk.

[jimkim]

I got a Govt contract Scherr-Tumico 1" vernier mike for $30.00 on there a few years ago. Turned out it was NOS. If you can find one, they're pretty good mikes.

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[country gent]

Starretts are good, Browne and Sharpe are good. With used tools it depends on care and use of the tools themselves. A 0-1 that was used in production may have very heavy isolated wear in a small area. This is hard to adjust for with the thread adjustments since they get tight everywhere but where the wear is. A machinist set that have been used for 30 years over a wide range of sizes kept clean and cared for are usually fine.
Not sure what new are going for now. In the late 70s when I bought my Browne and Sharp slant lines (0-6" set) they ran around $100.00 - $120.00 a set. Ive seen used Starret, luffkins, Browne and Sharp, Federals and several other brands sell for 30.00-35.00 at yard sales, gun shows, auctions. The exception to this is the federal indicating mikes these tend to bring much more.
If buying used from e-bay look for several things A iso calibration sticker and the date, this is a certification of accuracy done yearly in complying plants. A 3-5 day inspection allowance, This allows you to check zero and calibration by measuring things. Gage Blocks or gage pins are best but bullets can give an idea. Idealy check zero. Then every 1/4 turn thru 1 turn, this shows if the anvil and face are still square and parallel. A Mike with a sprung frame cane be zeroed but may not be true at 1/2 turn intervals do to this.
Things that are a plus are carbide faces, insulated frames, friction thimbles, having the wrench to zero and set thread collet, being able to set thimble. I prefer the slant line Browne and Sharp has, it makes miss reading by .025 almost impossible.

[Boolit_Head]

I must have gotten lucky, mine is a chineese made Enco.

[nun2kute]

I found a set of Fowler for a little over 1 C-not that I am happy with, I use the 1" all the time. Not so much the 2 & 3". But I still want the 4" too. But then I use my Hornady caliper all the time too. I just wish Starrett wasn't so dang spendy. When I was looking for mine, I did find some on Flea-bay that were used that I liked, but nothing in a set that looked like it wasn't beat to hell. So I went with a new set.

If you want something cheap, you could always go with the a caliper that is not digital. I went with the Digital micrometer (NON Electronic) for the same reason you are looking.

[granville_it]

I bought a Mitutoyo micrometer, new, when I was 19 years--, after 50 years it has given every satisfaction.

My verniers are a cheap digital and a good Japanese analog, never regretted either.

You sometimes get what you pay for on ebay.

A specialist supplier increases the chances.

Cheers Mark

[Green Frog]

I was lucky about 10-15 years ago when I took a few machining courses at the local community college. E-Bay was still in its “Wild West” stage where anything might show up at a giveaway price. I completed a 1-5” set of like new 436 Starretts and a “traveling set” of used but still excellent ones to schlep back and forth to school. I don’t think I paid more than $20 for any one of them. Good quality is worth the effort to search out!

Froggie

[fast ronnie]

Watch for them in estate sales, too. Neighbor had one a couple of weeks ago at a garage sale. If I remember right they were Lufkin which was bought out by Starrett.

[1bluehorse]

If you're looking for a mike to use in your reloading room, just buy an inexpensive one. We're not machinists who would use them every day for REAL precision work, so if you're just measuring bullet diameter and things like that it will be fine. If it comes with a standard (I wouldn't buy one without) you can check it anytime and adjust if necessary. Kinda like check weights for your scale. I have a 0-1" and a 1"-2" that I've had for several years and probably have used the 0-1 maybe 10 times, the larger one a couple times. They are handy to have but after you've determined the information you bought them for they tend to rest on the shelf, sorta like a BHN tester.

[alamogunr]

I'm sure someone will pipe up and say "not good enough" but I use my plug gages to check my micrometers. I got my main 0-1" B&S micrometer & vernier calipers at work when everyone wanted the digital instruments. If you cast for pistols you should have a set of plug gages or maybe just the ones that cover your handguns so you can measure throats.

[bangerjim]

Get an inexpensive one for your loading uses. Real tight "hobby" accuracy is not required. I have two different levels of accuracy for all my equipment - VERY HIGH (and precise) in the machine shop - digital within 0.0001 and better, and every other thing like loading at 0.001 or so. If you have the money buy the best. The machinist-grade quality tools will last a lifetime. The $40 stuff, not so much. I only buy used tools when I can touch/feel/test/try them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Get an inexpensive one for your loading uses. Real tight "hobby" accuracy is not required. I have two different levels of accuracy for all my equipment - VERY HIGH (and precise) in the machine shop - digital within 0.0001 and better, and every other thing like loading at 0.001 or so. If you have the money buy the best. The machinist-grade quality tools will last a lifetime. The $40 stuff, not so much. I only buy used tools when I can touch/feel/test/try them.

I agree with bangerjim 100%
I would just add ...Right now, buy something you can afford (even if cheap), then keep a lookout for a deal on something better.

My first mic was a Harborfrieght 1" mic (mechanical digital).
The first time I used it, a loose screw caused the mechanical digital readout to disengage. I got a quick lesson on how they work when I disassembled it...then also a lesson on zero'ing it and calibrating it.
anyway, it worked fine for measureing cast boolits. then some years later I stumbled onto a garage sale with some machinist tools...I scored a couple Mitutoyo measuring tools, a 1" mic for $40 and a 12" dial caliper for $60.

Also keep an eye out at pawn shops, many times I've seen the chinese enco 1" mic priced in the $10 to $20 range, look in the glass case with the jewery and coins. As bangerjim recomends, handle it, make sure the clutch works, make sure it operates smoothly, and then do a measure test, most shops sell guns and ammo...measure a bullet, it will give you an idea if it's within .001
Lastly, most of the pawn shops in my area overprice there stuff and with cash in hand, can usually get the item for about half price. I suspect they overprice it, due to customers wanting to trade in their stuff? Just a guess.

[Alan in Vermont]

FWIW, I had a need for mic to check case neck thickness when I was working on converting 7mm Mag brass to 6.5mm Rem Mag. I ended up with one from Shars tools at a very reasonable cost. Had to buy what I could afford so I took a chance on a cheap brand as I could not find a used "good" one.

This one has the oval tip on the anvil and some sort of friction sleeve in lieu of a ratchet on the spindle. It returns to zero flawlessly and hits the same numbers when I check the same spot repeatedly. Vernier readout which is no problem to me, some may prefer digital and I think they have one in that style as well. I think it was in the $30-40 range.

I think I bought it on Amazon, knowing it would be no hassle to return it if it turned out to be a dog.

[mold maker]

Not being a machinest, I have used Mitutoyo in reloading for 30+ years. If maintained and cared for they will give accurate service for several lifetimes.

[mpkunz]

ebay is a **** shoot. There is no such thing as a bad Starrett. A bad Starrett is undefined , like dividing by zero.

[country gent]

Actually Mitutoyo brand is quite popular in machine shops and tool rooms now, both mikes and calipers.

[EDG]

I posted a long post a year or so ago discussing micrometers since I have actively used them for 50 years and collected them about 10 years.
If you shop thoroughly you can get excellent mikes at good prices on ebay.
Government surplus Scherr-Tumico mikes are often unused in the original box for less than $20. They are at least as good a Starretts which are usually overpriced for what you get.
There are several other brands that are older versions of the Scherr-Tumicos. They can be identified by the frame and thimble design.

Mitutoyos have an excellent reputation but are usually a bit expensive.

Etalon and Tesa Swiss made mikes and the Mahrs made in Germany are top mikes for tool snobs but their cost and precision is not really needed for any reloading activity.
I can help you pick out a good mike for the money.
I once got 3 useable mikes on ebay for $9.95 because I was the only bidder. All were very used but all calibrated and have plenty of life left.

There can be both good and terrible deals on all brands of mikes due to poor condition of many very old and abused mike. Many decent mikes are way over priced so they are not a good deal even if unused.

[RED BEAR]

you can't go wrong with starret. but any quality mic should do i have always liked the feel of brown and sharpe. bought a set made in poland back in early 80s that still going strong. you might try a dial or veneer caliper. i rarely use my digital calipers for the same reason you state. i have got some nice stuff off ebay but have also bought junk. if it is junck you can always get your money back from ebay.

[alamogunr]

It is interesting reading the posts here by those who have used micrometers on a daily basis. While I have been familiar with mike's while working as a manufacturing/industrial engineer, they were not something I used all the time. Since getting into guns and reloading, I have acquired a B&S 0-1" as well as a government surplus Scherr-Tumico. Also have a B&S "disc" micrometer used for measuring paper/cloth thickness and a blade micrometer.

The Brown & Sharpe 0-1" and 2 dial calipers were from work before I retired. The were just sitting in a drawer in the gage lab because everyone wanted the digital instruments. Several couldn't read a vernier. I asked if I could buy a surplus micrometer and caliper. They just gave them to me. The others I got on Ebay. I guess, if I ran across a good deal on another mike, I might bid or buy but I sure don't need any more.

[cwheel]

As a retired machinist it's sad to me to see the price of the tools we paid dearly for come down to pennies on a dollar value on ebay. The reason I see this happening is the lack of manufacturing in this country and farming out manufacturing work to China due to lower costs of labor. What amounted to a honorable way to earn a living that many companies made a good living from now is just has a small part left in this country. My Starrett 0-1 inch micrometer ( #230 ) in a hard case cost me almost $200 while I was still working. Now, go on ebay and see them selling for $30. Same is true of the contents of my filled tool box. I spent over $20,000 buying the tools contained within, in these times due to lack of demand, worth just a fraction of their costs. People going into the trades today have a much dimmer expectation of the opportunities. When GM announces in a stock holders meeting that after the American tax payer bailed them out, they have moved 80% of their manufacturing to China ( along with the American jobs attached to this ) GM is not the only one doing this. You should be able to buy machinist precision tools needed for reloading at fire sale prices on ebay now, one of the few good deals out there for a reloading. I got to rise my family and retire quite comfortably by todays standards, a chance my grandchildren won't get in this trade. It's a different world now, I got to live to see the change. In this case, I don't think it's a good one
Chris

[hermans]

I also got tired battling with the cheap Chinese ones, specifically the verniers. So I finally decided to get a Starrett, it came at a hefty price, but what a pleasure! I also bought a Moore & Wright micrometer for the finer measurements, also works very well.
For me...life is to short to work with cheap tools, especially when it comes to measuring tools, in our world we have to trust our measurements!

[RED BEAR]

cwheel i feel your pain have 3 roller toolboxes full of tools that i spent a small fortune on . just can't bring myself to sell them off. still have hopes of someday getting a small lathe and mill for my garage.

[uscra112]

One reason that hand gaging tools like mikes are not in demand is that so much precision gaging is now done by automated machines like CMMs. And parts machining is also automated. Even the work done by the old time toolmakers is now done with CNC, and gaged with CMMs. I spent the last 15 years of my career automating the process control gaging for GM and Ford, so I've seen this up close and personal. I don't recall that any of those engine and transmission plants I worked in even HAD a toolroom in the old sense.

All the knowledge and skills I learned in the '60s are obsolete. I suppose that's one reason I repair and restore old guns - lets me pretend that I'm still relevant.

[Three44s]

cwheel and uscra112 just depressed the daylights out of me with the truth!

I can not help but think that there is still more to the story about automation vs human intervention however.

A machine can measure but critical thinking? No

Take the aviation accident recently where the turbine let loose and killed a woman passenger. I have no idea what the protocols are in manufacturing the large high rpm components for those engines. Nor can I surmise whether it was abuse post manufacture or just too many hours or lack of inspection that caused the failure. I just offer it as a hypothetical that a machine “spitting” out critical parts on a measurement does not have the “eye, brain or feel” of a well trained human.

Our wonderful bean counters don’t give a rats backside about collateral damage unless the Civil awards in court over take their savings on the assembly line and by the time the collective awareness catches on, they have likely moved onto greener pastures.

Three44s

[uscra112]

A common viewpoint, but in fact the machines do a far better job than humans can. There is plenty of critical thinking involved in setting up a machine to do the job we did. A typical engine block would consume 2000 hours or more just in programming the CMM, and that's on top of the thousands of hours expended programming the machine tools we were monitoring. The machine tool builders hated us - we told them "things they didn't know they didn't want to know". Good example: Ford had a terrible problem with head gaskets blowing in the V-6 engines used in the Winstar minivans. We (actually I personally) told them that the machining process they were using wasn't cutting the gasket face on the heads (we called it the "head deck") perfectly flat. The manual method of measuring flatness was incapable of detecting the flaw, but our machine could. (And I could tell them why. Critical thinking, enhanced by the CMM! But the machine tool builder fought Ford for two years before admitting that they had a problem. Big money involved.)

As for that turbine blowup. You would be amazed to learn the amount of gaging and non-destructive testing that goes into jet engine parts like that. We used to joke that "when the weight of the paperwork equaled the weight of the part, you could ship". They even keep "coupons" of the metal used, starting with the initial smelting from the ore. There's warehouses full of them, like the final scene from "Raiders of the Lost Ark". X-rays, chemical analyses, surface finish measurements, contour measurements, it's almost endless. On the rare occasion when something doesn't get caught, they will figure out what happened from that data.

Bean counters do indeed give a ratsass about putting parts as nearly perfect as possible into our cars (and airplanes). Failures cost the mfgr in warranty repairs, and in the worst case kill people. Reputation suffers, sales fall, they close their doors. GM nearly put themselves out of business in the late '80s when they let a crooked V.P. of Logistics dictate buying low-grade cast iron for their engine blocks. Almost every engine they made with it was worn out by 100,000 miles. They did learn their lesson there. He got fired, the engineers dictated the grade of iron required instead of the purchasing dept., and things turned around. About that time they started looking around at how Germany and Japan managed to make better engines, and spent billions of $$ adopting the best practices, which included the automated machining and process control gaging that I was involved with.

It has been ever thus, since the dawn of the industrial revolution. Build the skill into the tool, and you get more and better product. Not that I don't love the old craft methods, as I said before, but they can't do what engineers like myself do (well, did, I'm retired), with automation. The critical thinking element is still there, it's just moved from the shop floor to the process engineers.

[cwheel]

I'm a third generation machinist in my family. Yes, I did invest $20,000 in tools and the education and trade school to be able to make a living at this trade. Yes, I'm not happy that it's not a choice that my grand son will have a option to make. But in retrospect, I made a good living, never had to look for a job much more than a couple of hours when unemployed to find a decent job. Overall, the trade has been good to me and that investment I made is returned to me in just the retirement benefits. I do have a small lathe and mill at home and continue to do small jobs to this day. The tools don't just gather dust. The only complaint I have is current US companies need a much higher return on their investment income and are unwilling to share it with their workers. ( read this as the middle class is shrinking big time) Guess my tools will sell well at the yard sale after I pass.
Chris